lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Apr 3, 2017 21:06:21 GMT -5
Please tell me why. You're going to tell your father figure who most think greased the skids for you to get the job he's not welcome at practice? See my earlier post. They just fired his kid, they had a wide open search in theory. It's unfair to speculate whether the biggest elephant in the room was left alone, or whether it was likely addressed and to let this play out like our best chance of success would look like.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Apr 3, 2017 18:50:50 GMT -5
A thought for those panning this as not a thorough search:
I called this a few days ago. The search firm was basically designed to make this a black box so I don't know that we'll ever know who was contacted, what feelers went out, etc.
Everyone saying we didn't do a search, unless you have something concrete, just knock it off. We hired a very reputable shop to lead this and a name that two weeks ago we were very comfortable with leading it, so enough with the "I can't believe this is the best we could come up with," and accept that this very well could be the result of a very focused, very quiet, very active search for the best coach for THIS program within all of OUR parameters where all of these theoretical question marks were vetted.
And maybe just maybe, take the leap that we're back on a path to being the program we all imagine we can be, hope to be and are.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Apr 3, 2017 14:40:21 GMT -5
Don't know how this will turn out... but at least I'm renewing for next season so I'm optimistic and excited, which is more than I've felt the last two years.
#MakeTheHilltopGreatAgain
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Apr 2, 2017 22:34:28 GMT -5
I'm nice and lit at a work conference turning in for the night so... I like the PE interest. It's 2017. There's a 30 second shot clock, different rules we've never taken advantage of, and a program that has failed to take advantage of either with a fanbase clamoring for an appreciation of both. Is he a "rookie"? Sure. We're Mack and Holtzmann? Yes. And I don't think in hindsight anyone is going to say those were bad hires. I think it's safe to say we'd get an undeniable short term recruiting boost from this and a chance to parlay that into a long term opportunity. I also think PE MAY check some boxes we've sorely lacked in Xs and Os. I don't know that there's a perfect candidate for this job but much the same way I thought discounting Christian's experience was silly, I feel the same about PE. It may just be different experience that is what this program needs rather than the standard-fare here's how you run a program and here's the offense and defense that wins. On top of that, I can't imagine he's being offered the job with any delusions about what the leash looks like. Let's do it. The time for half measures like Hurley and retreads like Crean or Amaker is past. We are Editeding Georgetown. Let's act like that still means something and bring this thing back. Better to die on our feet than live on Hurley/Crean/Amaker's knees. Edited to add: Id be confident there'd be a built in succession plan in the event this is a success and he bolts for the NBA. I've thought/hoped that for a while. Ditto if this is just a long term plan towards grooming a Georgetown successor if it fails.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Apr 1, 2017 22:05:20 GMT -5
Oh you're one of those records people, eh? Well what's his record in-conference? Hint - he's never had a losing conf. record. Another hint: Tough out of conference schedules for a team like Mt. Saint Marys is... Sorry to be one of those pests that think wins and losses matter. Were his losses this year to UMBC, Loyola, and Lehigh part of that tough out of conference schedule? Christian should get a nice A-10 gig soon, keep the buzz going, and then he might be ready. Agree it will probably take him at least a few seasons to get used to coaching on real wood floors and with genuine leather balls. I'm guessing MSM gets fresh sneakers each year but who knows. Give me a goddamn break. He hasn't spent several years at a mid-major under the auspices of our #1 target and then 5 years running his own program to have it equated to running a rec league team.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 31, 2017 22:29:02 GMT -5
I refused to include both SUcks and MD on that list.
But yeah, the list is bigger than the blue bloods are the only schools someone would leave this job for.
Maybe that's why I'm high on Christian. Who knows what's in someone's heart, but his background lends itself to being a guy who wants to build it and stay here. I'd rather roll the dice on that than be a payday and stepping stone.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 31, 2017 22:19:03 GMT -5
Idk I think there's quite a few P5 jobs that a coach would leave Georgetown for. I don't think there are a ton of jobs but I think there's definitely more than 6. Which ones and why? Can't be for the money. Kentucky Duke UNC UCLA Indiana Kansas Jobs arguably better than ours that may have more appeal to the right person without much thought: Louisville Syracuse Texas Arizona Florida Michigan Michigan State Ohio State Oregon (Nike $) NC State Virginia Cal Baylor I'm not opining on whether they are better or more desirable, I'm just saying, this is not so clearly a top-6 job except to the right person.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 31, 2017 21:20:48 GMT -5
God I hope he's down on the list. Him and Hurley both have almost zero chance of staying here if they achieve any success and something else comes along. I have zero interest in being a line on two career-opportunists' resume. I'm on the complete opposite side of this. If someone comes in here and turns the program around and does a good enough job to leave for somewhere else after four or five years, I'd thank him and send him on his way. We'd be in a much stronger position to hire a new coach than we are now, and the program would be in a much better place. Pretty sure that's the definition of a mid-major program. Coaches have in the old and new Big East at the stalwarts have almost NEVER left. It would be irreversible if we became a revolving door.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 31, 2017 20:59:31 GMT -5
I'm coming around on Crean. He has been classy in handling his firing which I think is reshaping my opinion of him. He has a proven ability to do what we need. I don't think his severance lets him draw an additional media salary. Sounds like he wants to be coaching next season and seems to be doing a media push for a job. Not much out there other than our opening. I think it's fairly safe to say at this point that he's well down the list. Would really like to know why. Sorry for repeating myself, but, if one is interested in "the process," it's an intriguing question. God I hope he's down on the list. Him and Hurley both have almost zero chance of staying here if they achieve any success and something else comes along. I have zero interest in being a line on two career-opportunists' resume.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 31, 2017 7:20:13 GMT -5
My unfounded theory about the use of Korn Ferry is that one of two things are happening, neither of which give me much anxiety:
1. PE is the favored choice, and the use of an independent search firm gives some cushion between any obvious blowback. "We did a search the right way, and objective independent people said this was the best choice."
2. A wild card (like Christian) is the favored choice, and the use of an independent search firm gives some cushion between any obvious blowback. "We did a search the right way, and objective independent people brought us this candidate as the best choice."
It's just my gut feeling, this wouldn't be the process if the usual suspects (Pitino, Hurley, Crean, etc.) were in the mix. There's no need to independently sell that to any of the stakeholders since it makes subjective sense on its face.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 30, 2017 20:58:49 GMT -5
If this is true, then Hurley's probably off the board. We'd know tomorrow. TC--Thanks for doing yeoman's work on this situation. I'm going to assume truth, and would love to know if he passed us over. From our perspective, I thought he was a good fit. From his perspective, I thought we were a near perfect fit. I'm hoping he wasn't very much in the mix for us since I don't want to think that we're that undesirable.. Also could be just us dragging our feet, Hurley taking advantage to cover himself, and maybe it's all contingent on the only job I'd leave for without a massive buyout is Gtown... End wild speculation.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 30, 2017 16:48:32 GMT -5
Just as a thought:
We were all in on Shaka, ready to justify any amount of money we could throw at him because of what he is now.
Isn't the point of this search to find the guy who is the Shaka we would hire in 5 or 6 years today? Isn't that the vision of what this search would be; finding a coach we would gladly pay 3.5 mil for in a few years before he's making that and turning us down?
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 30, 2017 15:38:57 GMT -5
Rumor on campus going around that it's Jim Boeheim and they're working out the contract right now. That ought to cut down on our tissue overhead.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 30, 2017 15:32:57 GMT -5
Isn't there a difference between having whatever your track record is and having never actually been on the track?
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 30, 2017 15:20:33 GMT -5
So I'd heard of Jamion Christian before, but didn't know much about him honestly. Knew his name was floating around. So I just read the blurb on TheSiteThatCostUsTremontWaters.com and HOT DAMN... Seriously, it made me tingle in funny places. It's the first time since 3/23 that a name besides Shaka actually had me excited at the prospects. Energy? Check Style of play? Check Clear focused program goals? Check Coaching chops? Check Do you think a Christian coached 16-17 Hoyas team finishes under 500 after reading that? SIGN ME UP NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Seriously. If he's what he sells himself as, I could see him running this place for 40 years. Doesn't his style of play also at least give Waters pause about maybe coming back into the fold? DO IT DO IT DO IT When I say the boy has his own website, I MEAN THE BOY HAS HIS OWN WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Yeah I'm sure what we lacked was motivational speaking. You guys amaze me. These quotes are great for fans, nothing else. Great for fans? Not for nothing but they translated from 1-11 to a 14-4 conference record and an NCAA appearance while we lost at home to the perennial doormat in our conference under similar circumstances. It certainly translated to more NCAA appearances than we've had in the same time period. Or just go with Danny Hurley or Richard Pitino. What's the difference really? Is coaching at a Power 5 school such a big deal at this point? It's 94 feet, 15 guys, 2 baskets and 1 ball no matter where it is... Let's just wait 5 or 6 years until this guy is the guy who we were about to pay 3.5 million to lure from Texas, that'll really be the key to success. Maybe he will be, maybe he won't be, but seems to me there's way more upside than anyone else we've mentioned aside from saying we got someone with some tangible experience that may or may not have any actual value beyond subjectively. It's funny how we act like "running a program" is some skill that you can only learn from having done it. Guy's been doing it for 5 years. Coach games, run practice, watch tapes, watch recruits, call recruits, go to summer camps; it's not like somehow the University of Minnesota coach is doing some Jedi things that an NEC coach isn't. This isn't asking someone who builds model rockets for a living to build the Mars Rover. It's coaching basketball and running a Division I program. If you can coach, you can coach.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 30, 2017 14:56:06 GMT -5
The funny thing is if it does break, it seems like it will almost certainly be done by CasualHoya...
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 30, 2017 14:53:31 GMT -5
To show how little I know outside my bubble sometimes:
Chris Mack (who we drooled over as a name), never had an HC job besides high school. Sean Holtzmann (who I think we would say worked out), never had a HC job and besides 2 years as an assistant at Butler had his most high profile gig be 3 years as an assistant at Ohio, which obviously was productive since it included 2010.....
Christian has more experience than both of them.
RALLY THE SEARCH PARTY, WE FOUND DRY LAND!
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 30, 2017 14:29:31 GMT -5
So I'd heard of Jamion Christian before, but didn't know much about him honestly. Knew his name was floating around. So I just read the blurb on TheSiteThatCostUsTremontWaters.com and HOT DAMN... Seriously, it made me tingle in funny places. It's the first time since 3/23 that a name besides Shaka actually had me excited at the prospects. Energy? Check Style of play? Check Clear focused program goals? Check Coaching chops? Check Do you think a Christian coached 16-17 Hoyas team finishes under 500 after reading that? SIGN ME UP NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Seriously. If he's what he sells himself as, I could see him running this place for 40 years. Doesn't his style of play also at least give Waters pause about maybe coming back into the fold? DO IT DO IT DO IT When I say the boy has his own website, I MEAN THE BOY HAS HIS OWN WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 28, 2017 6:50:23 GMT -5
Watching the Knicks v. Pistons game (don't ask) and they had a rather long discussion about Ewing and our head coaching position. Included a clip of Stan Van Gundy passionately advocating for Patrick - which isn't particularly surprising. He made a point of talking about how recruiting is mostly about kids being told that they can get to the league - and who better to tell them that than Patrick. Mike Breen also mentioned that he heard that Patrick really wants the job. For whatever that is worth. Not the I needed Stan, Breen and Clyde Frazier to push me in this direction, but I'd be very happy to see Patrick get the job. I think we mostly agree on the dynamics here: he has the requisite training and experience to be a good x's and o's guy; for 15 years he has been game planning for NBA teams with half the time to prepare that college coaches have; and has the work ethic to be out on the road grinding. And the fact that he didn't have to do any of that also says good things about his commitment and work ethic. There are legitimate questions about his transition to a head coaching position; to dealing with kids and to attracting guards to come here. That said, I've yet to see the candidate listed who didn't have as many questions as answers. Short of that candidate emerging, I'm in for Patrick. But not all - or even mostly - because of his attributes. I'm in because if there is an advantage that Georgetown has over all but a handful of schools it is our story. Our story is a unique story about family and legacy and toughness and that fact that all of that happened in a somewhat unlikely place. I hear and understand the call on this board to separate from the Thompson family and run things a bit more similarly to a standard NCAA high major program. But the truth is that we are not, and will not become, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA or UNC. We don't have the resources and we don't have systemic things in place to make that happen. So as a fan, I don't expect that. What I expect is sustainable success, with a few beautiful march runs thrown in there, and I expect to be committed and tied to the school and the program because of what makes us unique. Patrick helps keep and accentuate that story. We can somewhat easily dismiss both the positive and negative things we've heard from important hoops alumni - particularly during trying times. But wouldn't it be better to keep that family together? It's hard to imagine that a Ewing run program wouldn't bring together Mourning and Williams and Jackson and AI and Wallace and Jeff and Roy and Otto and all. I want to hear more about those guys coming back in the summer to run with the new guys. I want them at games. And I don't imagine we get those summer stories under Hurley or Pitino, etc.. Now I'm not advocating for giving up wins for a story. But I just don't see how a Danny Hurley program is so clearly more likely to be successful than a Ewing program. And a Hurley program lacks any of the uniqueness that makes us Georgetown. Co-sign. Me three. The whole anti-PE thing seems to hinge on (1) No college experience and (2) We could never fire him. With respect to (2), I think that's laughable at this point, but as to (1) what recruit isn't at least taking that phone call. There's still some brand left in our name, and there will always be another "Hurley" every year, but we only get one shot at moving forward in the right direction with a link to our past. In 5-6 years if a Hurley doesn't work out, going back to the well will just look like a cheap attempt to get headlines for a few days. I'm not and never have said he should be a shoo-in, but he certainly should have been #2 on any list with any obvious first choice. Hurley definitely does not feel like a first choice...
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 24, 2017 15:54:54 GMT -5
I want your drug dealer's number ASAP.
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