eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 9, 2017 22:53:24 GMT -5
As I've spent today coming back down off of my disappointment of another progressively worse finish for this program as we continually slide to new lows from our high point in 2007.
The talk of one more year for JTIII isn't going to work in reality. I don't say that as a critic of his but as a realist. There is no way unless Magic Johnson from 1979 walks into Georgetown in the form of our new PG that we right this to the point the fanbase is happy. If Peak leaves which is at least 50/50 at this point there is no way to do that with this cast. The roster and players around this aren't working and don't fit. Playing with broken puzzle pieces that have talent but can't be put together by this coach is the problem and has been for some time.
For anyone to fix this at this point they need a full reboot. This coach won't get that opportunity which is another reason we are just kicking the can from last year to this year and now to next year. By most accounts on this board our ceiling which is now the roof is this team squeaks into the tournament next year - that's realistic best case. That would require everything to fall into place. Chances are we miss out again and where are we? Same place we've been this year and last year with no more patience. It's been wearing thin if some haven't noticed.
The bigger issue is I truly don't think this coach can coach in the current environment. His offensive system is antiquated and doesn't work at least with the personnel he's recruited. He's been out coached by lessor teams for far too many years to think he can correct that. A good coach wouldn't let that happen time and time again and year after year.
We can give this another year but I'll tell you there's a 90%+ chance we are sitting here in the same spot coming up with excuses that he needs more time for his PG to develop and some other recruit for the following year to arrive.
I don't see a way out and that's what happens in sports. That's why coaches run their courses and it's time for a change. It's not a knock on anyone and doesn't discount what they did in the past just means things can't be fixed now in the time frame that is left for this coach to win which was this year.
Enjoy the offseason fellow Hoya fans and the hype machine that is Hoyatalk. I'll be dreaming of better days when we can be relevant and get some hope in the program. We are being held captive by our own past success. It's a purgatory that we will sit until we can make the necessary changes to move things forward.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 10, 2017 9:20:18 GMT -5
As I've spent today coming back down off of my disappointment of another progressively worse finish for this program as we continually slide to new lows from our high point in 2007. The talk of one more year for JTIII isn't going to work in reality. I don't say that as a critic of his but as a realist. There is no way unless Magic Johnson from 1979 walks into Georgetown in the form of our new PG that we right this to the point the fanbase is happy. If Peak leaves which is at least 50/50 at this point there is no way to do that with this cast. The roster and players around this aren't working and don't fit. Playing with broken puzzle pieces that have talent but can't be put together by this coach is the problem and has been for some time. For anyone to fix this at this point they need a full reboot. This coach won't get that opportunity which is another reason we are just kicking the can from last year to this year and now to next year. By most accounts on this board our ceiling which is now the roof is this team squeaks into the tournament next year - that's realistic best case. That would require everything to fall into place. Chances are we miss out again and where are we? Same place we've been this year and last year with no more patience. It's been wearing thin if some haven't noticed. The bigger issue is I truly don't think this coach can coach in the current environment. His offensive system is antiquated and doesn't work at least with the personnel he's recruited. He's been out coached by lessor teams for far too many years to think he can correct that. A good coach wouldn't let that happen time and time again and year after year. We can give this another year but I'll tell you there's a 90%+ chance we are sitting here in the same spot coming up with excuses that he needs more time for his PG to develop and some other recruit for the following year to arrive. I don't see a way out and that's what happens in sports. That's why coaches run their courses and it's time for a change. It's not a knock on anyone and doesn't discount what they did in the past just means things can't be fixed now in the time frame that is left for this coach to win which was this year. Enjoy the offseason fellow Hoya fans and the hype machine that is Hoyatalk. I'll be dreaming of better days when we can be relevant and get some hope in the program. We are being held captive by our own past success. It's a purgatory that we will sit until we can make the necessary changes to move things forward. If Peak does not come back, then there are built in excuses, "What do you expect when the coach loses his 1st and 2nd best scorers (Peak & Pryor) from the previous year." "It is unrealistic to expect the team to overcome such a loss in talent." "JTIII needs a couple of more years to get the recruiting aspect down in this new age of college basketball." "JTIII needs a couple of seasons to tweak his system more to Tremont Water's strengths." "JTIII's new offense is a work in progress and it will take a couple of years for players to get acclimated." "The Hoyas are a young team, it is unrealistic to expect them to play at a high level." "It has only been 3 seasons, St. Johns and DePaul have been bad for longer time periods." I got a scenario: JTIII makes an NIT or NCAA next year, how many more consecutive more years of potentially no bids could that buy before his seat gets hot again?
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Mar 10, 2017 9:22:37 GMT -5
On the off chance that things go this way, I think I will go to the Palestra this weekend for the Ivy Tourney to scout our new opponents...
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,271
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Post by prhoya on Mar 10, 2017 9:25:44 GMT -5
As I've spent today coming back down off of my disappointment of another progressively worse finish for this program as we continually slide to new lows from our high point in 2007. The talk of one more year for JTIII isn't going to work in reality. I don't say that as a critic of his but as a realist. There is no way unless Magic Johnson from 1979 walks into Georgetown in the form of our new PG that we right this to the point the fanbase is happy. If Peak leaves which is at least 50/50 at this point there is no way to do that with this cast. The roster and players around this aren't working and don't fit. Playing with broken puzzle pieces that have talent but can't be put together by this coach is the problem and has been for some time. For anyone to fix this at this point they need a full reboot. This coach won't get that opportunity which is another reason we are just kicking the can from last year to this year and now to next year. By most accounts on this board our ceiling which is now the roof is this team squeaks into the tournament next year - that's realistic best case. That would require everything to fall into place. Chances are we miss out again and where are we? Same place we've been this year and last year with no more patience. It's been wearing thin if some haven't noticed. The bigger issue is I truly don't think this coach can coach in the current environment. His offensive system is antiquated and doesn't work at least with the personnel he's recruited. He's been out coached by lessor teams for far too many years to think he can correct that. A good coach wouldn't let that happen time and time again and year after year. We can give this another year but I'll tell you there's a 90%+ chance we are sitting here in the same spot coming up with excuses that he needs more time for his PG to develop and some other recruit for the following year to arrive. I don't see a way out and that's what happens in sports. That's why coaches run their courses and it's time for a change. It's not a knock on anyone and doesn't discount what they did in the past just means things can't be fixed now in the time frame that is left for this coach to win which was this year. Enjoy the offseason fellow Hoya fans and the hype machine that is Hoyatalk. I'll be dreaming of better days when we can be relevant and get some hope in the program. We are being held captive by our own past success. It's a purgatory that we will sit until we can make the necessary changes to move things forward. If Peak does not come back, then there are built in excuses, "What do you expect when the coach loses his 1st and 2nd best scorers (Peak & Pryor) from the previous year." "It is unrealistic to expect the team to overcome such a loss in talent." "JTIII needs a couple of more years to get the recruiting aspect down in this new age of college basketball." "JTIII needs a couple of seasons to tweak his system more to Tremont Water's strengths." "JTIII's new offense is a work in progress and it will take a couple of years for players to get acclimated." "The Hoyas are a young team, it is unrealistic to expect them to play at a high level." "It has only been 3 seasons, St. Johns and DePaul have been bad for longer time periods." I got a scenario: JTIII makes an NIT or NCAA next year, how many more consecutive more years of potentially no bids could that buy before his seat gets hot again? The $9 Million Experiment. Nice job if you can get it...
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 10, 2017 9:47:02 GMT -5
As I've spent today coming back down off of my disappointment of another progressively worse finish for this program as we continually slide to new lows from our high point in 2007. The talk of one more year for JTIII isn't going to work in reality. I don't say that as a critic of his but as a realist. There is no way unless Magic Johnson from 1979 walks into Georgetown in the form of our new PG that we right this to the point the fanbase is happy. If Peak leaves which is at least 50/50 at this point there is no way to do that with this cast. The roster and players around this aren't working and don't fit. Playing with broken puzzle pieces that have talent but can't be put together by this coach is the problem and has been for some time. For anyone to fix this at this point they need a full reboot. This coach won't get that opportunity which is another reason we are just kicking the can from last year to this year and now to next year. By most accounts on this board our ceiling which is now the roof is this team squeaks into the tournament next year - that's realistic best case. That would require everything to fall into place. Chances are we miss out again and where are we? Same place we've been this year and last year with no more patience. It's been wearing thin if some haven't noticed. The bigger issue is I truly don't think this coach can coach in the current environment. His offensive system is antiquated and doesn't work at least with the personnel he's recruited. He's been out coached by lessor teams for far too many years to think he can correct that. A good coach wouldn't let that happen time and time again and year after year. We can give this another year but I'll tell you there's a 90%+ chance we are sitting here in the same spot coming up with excuses that he needs more time for his PG to develop and some other recruit for the following year to arrive. I don't see a way out and that's what happens in sports. That's why coaches run their courses and it's time for a change. It's not a knock on anyone and doesn't discount what they did in the past just means things can't be fixed now in the time frame that is left for this coach to win which was this year. Enjoy the offseason fellow Hoya fans and the hype machine that is Hoyatalk. I'll be dreaming of better days when we can be relevant and get some hope in the program. We are being held captive by our own past success. It's a purgatory that we will sit until we can make the necessary changes to move things forward. If Peak does not come back, then there are built in excuses, "What do you expect when the coach loses his 1st and 2nd best scorers (Peak & Pryor) from the previous year." "It is unrealistic to expect the team to overcome such a loss in talent." "JTIII needs a couple of more years to get the recruiting aspect down in this new age of college basketball." "JTIII needs a couple of seasons to tweak his system more to Tremont Water's strengths." "JTIII's new offense is a work in progress and it will take a couple of years for players to get acclimated." "The Hoyas are a young team, it is unrealistic to expect them to play at a high level." "It has only been 3 seasons, St. Johns and DePaul have been bad for longer time periods." I got a scenario: JTIII makes an NIT or NCAA next year, how many more consecutive more years of potentially no bids could that buy before his seat gets hot again? The time for excuses is up, TJI. Had he made the NCAAT this year, and then taken a step back next year (with, say, a competitive year but an NIT bid) but Tremont showed extreme promise, you may have gotten those sorts of statements. But this year (the one just finished) eliminated any additional time for statements like that. His goodwill is used up. You had to make the tournament this year. To speak specifically to your hypo, if he makes the NIT (or worse) next year, 99% of our fanbase will not make the excuses you list. Well over half of our fanbase isn't saying it now! If he makes the NCAAT as a low seed and loses right away next year, there may be some debate and a fair number of people (frankly, including me) would probably say that he ought to be given an additional year to try to build on it. But if they then immediately regress back to the NIT or worse, that would be the end of it. One year in the NCAAT earns one more year (I think). (Obviously extreme success next year would be a different story, but I'm not silly enough to even think that way!)
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 10, 2017 9:48:08 GMT -5
Those were the excuses last season and that was the mulligan I was willing to give III. In my mind, and I have to believe for 90% of the fanbase, the only way III can survive next season is by making the NCAA or having a top 15 recruiting class coming in for 2018.
Unfortunately, if he makes the NCAAs, even if only the play-in game, I bet he gets a 3 year extension!
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 10, 2017 10:03:55 GMT -5
If Peak does not come back, then there are built in excuses, "What do you expect when the coach loses his 1st and 2nd best scorers (Peak & Pryor) from the previous year." "It is unrealistic to expect the team to overcome such a loss in talent." "JTIII needs a couple of more years to get the recruiting aspect down in this new age of college basketball." "JTIII needs a couple of seasons to tweak his system more to Tremont Water's strengths." "JTIII's new offense is a work in progress and it will take a couple of years for players to get acclimated." "The Hoyas are a young team, it is unrealistic to expect them to play at a high level." "It has only been 3 seasons, St. Johns and DePaul have been bad for longer time periods." I got a scenario: JTIII makes an NIT or NCAA next year, how many more consecutive more years of potentially no bids could that buy before his seat gets hot again? The time for excuses is up, TJI. Had he made the NCAAT this year, and then taken a step back next year (with, say, a competitive year but an NIT bid) but Tremont showed extreme promise, you may have gotten those sorts of statements. But this year (the one just finished) eliminated any additional time for statements like that. His goodwill is used up. You had to make the tournament this year. To speak specifically to your hypo, if he makes the NIT (or worse) next year, 99% of our fanbase will not make the excuses you list. Well over half of our fanbase isn't saying it now! If he makes the NCAAT as a low seed and loses right away next year, there may be some debate and a fair number of people (frankly, including me) would probably say that he ought to be given an additional year to try to build on it. But if they then immediately regress back to the NIT or worse, that would be the end of it. One year in the NCAAT earns one more year (I think). (Obviously extreme success next year would be a different story, but I'm not silly enough to even think that way!) aleutianhoya, we have never agreed nor seen eye to eye on our posts. Till now... 100% agreement here. Also in the highlighted, you replace NCAAT, with NIT and loses right away: Do you think that will buy JTIII an additional year?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 10, 2017 10:22:56 GMT -5
The time for excuses is up, TJI. Had he made the NCAAT this year, and then taken a step back next year (with, say, a competitive year but an NIT bid) but Tremont showed extreme promise, you may have gotten those sorts of statements. But this year (the one just finished) eliminated any additional time for statements like that. His goodwill is used up. You had to make the tournament this year. To speak specifically to your hypo, if he makes the NIT (or worse) next year, 99% of our fanbase will not make the excuses you list. Well over half of our fanbase isn't saying it now! If he makes the NCAAT as a low seed and loses right away next year, there may be some debate and a fair number of people (frankly, including me) would probably say that he ought to be given an additional year to try to build on it. But if they then immediately regress back to the NIT or worse, that would be the end of it. One year in the NCAAT earns one more year (I think). (Obviously extreme success next year would be a different story, but I'm not silly enough to even think that way!) aleutianhoya, we have never agreed nor seen eye to eye on our posts. Till now... 100% agreement here. Also in the highlighted, you replace NCAAT, with NIT and loses right away: Do you think that will buy JTIII an additional year? No. To me, the NIT is functionally worthless. I suppose with a young team, you can build off a long run in it for the next season, but in terms of evaluating success and failure? Doesn't mean anything to me. So, if he made the NIT next year, that wouldn't buy him another year (in my book). The time for "close but no cigar" has come and gone.
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,326
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Post by vv83 on Mar 10, 2017 10:27:47 GMT -5
On the off chance that things go this way, I think I will go to the Palestra this weekend for the Ivy Tourney to scout our new opponents... I'll be at the Palestra tomorrow. Great place to see a game, historic occasion, and I used to work at Penn - so my best friends are alums/fans. The only other game I have attended at the Palestra was the 22 rebound pinkney game in 82-83. We lost a significant lead in the final minutes, losing in OT. But it was still a wild experience. If I remember correctly, Elvado and I made the trek to that game together with one or two other friends. The plan was to hit Smokey Joe's after the game, but we just got in the car and drove straight back to DC after a disappointing loss, with a stop for junk food to ease our pain (I have a vague memory of Dunkin Donuts?) along the way. And I'll get to see the original Princeton offense in action - I'll have to control any instinctive reactions I feel to get upset when they make the entry pass to the center at the foul line!
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Mar 10, 2017 10:43:49 GMT -5
On the off chance that things go this way, I think I will go to the Palestra this weekend for the Ivy Tourney to scout our new opponents... I'll be at the Palestra tomorrow. Great place to see a game, historic occasion, and I used to work at Penn - so my best friends are alums/fans. The only other game I have attended at the Palestra was the 22 rebound pinkney game in 82-83. We lost a significant lead in the final minutes, losing in OT. But it was still a wild experience. If I remember correctly, Elvado and I made the trek to that game together with one or two other friends. The plan was to hit Smokey Joe's after the game, but we just got in the car and drove straight back to DC after a disappointing loss, with a stop for junk food to ease our pain (I have a vague memory of Dunkin Donuts?) along the way. And I'll get to see the original Princeton offense in action - I'll have to control any instinctive reactions I feel to get upset when they make the entry pass to the center at the foul line! Spot on as usual VV. The game went south when we ended it with Victor Morris and David Blue getting significant minutes in the post after Patrick and almost everyone else fouled out. Our quest for Donuts led us to Hyattsville and a fresh tray of Chocolate Honey dipped. A good ending if nothing else.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,378
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Post by drquigley on Mar 10, 2017 11:19:14 GMT -5
I'll be at the Palestra tomorrow. Great place to see a game, historic occasion, and I used to work at Penn - so my best friends are alums/fans. The only other game I have attended at the Palestra was the 22 rebound pinkney game in 82-83. We lost a significant lead in the final minutes, losing in OT. But it was still a wild experience. If I remember correctly, Elvado and I made the trek to that game together with one or two other friends. The plan was to hit Smokey Joe's after the game, but we just got in the car and drove straight back to DC after a disappointing loss, with a stop for junk food to ease our pain (I have a vague memory of Dunkin Donuts?) along the way. And I'll get to see the original Princeton offense in action - I'll have to control any instinctive reactions I feel to get upset when they make the entry pass to the center at the foul line! Spot on as usual VV. The game went south when we ended it with Victor Morris and David Blue getting significant minutes in the post after Patrick and almost everyone else fouled out. Our quest for Donuts led us to Hyattsville and a fresh tray of Chocolate Honey dipped. A good ending if nothing else. You know you guys just highlighted what makes the Hoya - and the entire bball experience - so great. Get together with friends, share a memory (even if it is a loss), and then reminisce years later.
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,326
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Post by vv83 on Mar 10, 2017 17:45:15 GMT -5
I'll be at the Palestra tomorrow. Great place to see a game, historic occasion, and I used to work at Penn - so my best friends are alums/fans. The only other game I have attended at the Palestra was the 22 rebound pinkney game in 82-83. We lost a significant lead in the final minutes, losing in OT. But it was still a wild experience. If I remember correctly, Elvado and I made the trek to that game together with one or two other friends. The plan was to hit Smokey Joe's after the game, but we just got in the car and drove straight back to DC after a disappointing loss, with a stop for junk food to ease our pain (I have a vague memory of Dunkin Donuts?) along the way. And I'll get to see the original Princeton offense in action - I'll have to control any instinctive reactions I feel to get upset when they make the entry pass to the center at the foul line! Spot on as usual VV. The game went south when we ended it with Victor Morris and David Blue getting significant minutes in the post after Patrick and almost everyone else fouled out. Our quest for Donuts led us to Hyattsville and a fresh tray of Chocolate Honey dipped. A good ending if nothing else. I remember Blue having to play in OT. Friggin pinone had fouled out a bunch of our guys.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 10, 2017 19:30:50 GMT -5
Spot on as usual VV. The game went south when we ended it with Victor Morris and David Blue getting significant minutes in the post after Patrick and almost everyone else fouled out. Our quest for Donuts led us to Hyattsville and a fresh tray of Chocolate Honey dipped. A good ending if nothing else. You know you guys just highlighted what makes the Hoya - and the entire bball experience - so great. Get together with friends, share a memory (even if it is a loss), and then reminisce years later. Exactly right.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 10, 2017 20:24:05 GMT -5
You know you guys just highlighted what makes the Hoya - and the entire bball experience - so great. Get together with friends, share a memory (even if it is a loss), and then reminisce years later. Exactly right. Let's hope you guys can meet up in better times real soon. The issue I see is you grew up in better eras as many did here and don't forget that. This current era if we continue with this won't have that connection to the program.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 11, 2017 20:19:57 GMT -5
Looks like 2017-18 and beyond just got much darker.
I bet III resigns with this news as he can't take a year that we'll have to endure next year.
It's a broken roster and this kid saw that and knew it wasn't going to work.
It will be interesting to see where he ends up and what if anything this administration does other than the typical nothing.
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