SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 5, 2017 14:22:33 GMT -5
I can't think of a single P5 program that isn't rebuilding with a new coach that would accept back to back losing seasons without change. It's really hard to have losing seasons in CBB. I think even when Turgeon came on and had no talent and had a bunch of transfers did they not suffer through a losing season. Gotta stand up to JT2. This is not his program anymore and he can only hurt it more than help it with his presence. Jay Wright had a losing season. In fact, he had 2. "Back-to-back" losing seasons. That's what 95hoya stated. Not "a losing season." Emphasis on "back-to-back." And Wright's losing seasons were 9 years apart. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jay-wright-1.html
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 5, 2017 14:35:27 GMT -5
I can't think of a single P5 program that isn't rebuilding with a new coach that would accept back to back losing seasons without change. It's really hard to have losing seasons in CBB. This was discussed before. There are at least five major college schools in a similar position: 1. Nebraska: Three straight losing season under Tim Miles 2. Missouri: Three straight losing seasons under Kim Anderson 3. Washington State: Three straight losing seasons under Ernie Kent 4. Penn State: Consecutive non-winning seasons under Pat Chambers 5. Mississippi State: Consecutive non-winning seasons under Ben Howland (Perennial underachievers such as Rutgers and BC do not count.)
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 5, 2017 14:35:29 GMT -5
And? He had 2 losing seasons. Also, he didn't start off fast like III did when he arrived at Villanova. Nova remained patient. Nova didn't give up on him. Then he started winning. Had some great years, a Final Four. Then had his 2nd losing season. Then came the early NCAA exits after having strong regular seasons. Nova remained patient. Nova didn't give up on him. It paid off. It is okay to remain patient.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Mar 5, 2017 14:41:19 GMT -5
The recruiting just isn't anywhere close to good enough to remain patient. But I have been critical of that for awhile. I don't see it changing.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 5, 2017 15:00:35 GMT -5
And? He had 2 losing seasons. Also, he didn't start off fast like III did when he arrived at Villanova. Nova remained patient. Nova didn't give up on him. Then he started winning. Had some great years, a Final Four. Then had his 2nd losing season. Then came the early NCAA exits after having strong regular seasons. Nova remained patient. Nova didn't give up on him. It paid off. It is okay to remain patient. Move to strike the answer as nonresponsive!! Editing out the important qualifier of "back-to-back" losing seasons renders your analogy inapt!!! If III has a nine-year gap between losing seasons, it'd be whole different situation.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 5, 2017 15:19:45 GMT -5
Not really. He has a Final Four. He has a Sweet Sixteen. Other coaches have stayed with consecutive losing seasons.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 5, 2017 15:31:52 GMT -5
Not really. He has a Final Four. He has a Sweet Sixteen. Other coaches have stayed with consecutive losing seasons. Sorry, the comparison was with Jay Wright, who also has an NCAA Championship. Keep ignoring the inconvenient facts. Alternative facts!!!!!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 5, 2017 15:33:55 GMT -5
Not really. He has a Final Four. He has a Sweet Sixteen. Other coaches have stayed with consecutive losing seasons. Sorry, the comparison was with Jay Wright, who also has an NCAA Championship. Keep ignoring the inconvenient facts. Alternative facts!!!!! Except, at the time of his losing seasons he did not.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 5, 2017 15:39:09 GMT -5
Sorry, the comparison was with Jay Wright, who also has an NCAA Championship. Keep ignoring the inconvenient facts. Alternative facts!!!!! Except, at the time of his losing seasons he did not. True but he NEVER had back-to-back losing seasons. You can't seem to want to address that. And the nine years between those seasons. Those are material points. And he also has Josh Hart, who reportedly wanted to be a Hoya, and we never offered. And Kris Jenkins (Gonzaga) local kid. I don't know if he ever had any interest in Georgetown or whether III had any interest in him, although being from III's alma mater one would have thought, maybe. Anyone know if Jenkins/Georgetown had any mutual interest at some point? I was a supporter of III and thought this year was make or break. If he could plug in Pryor/Mulmore and get us back on a winning track, I was all in. It didn't happen and got worse. That being said, I am resigned to him returning for next season and will likely renew my season tickets which I've had for 40+ years. I'd love it if I'm proven wrong!
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Mar 5, 2017 15:49:15 GMT -5
I can't think of a single P5 program that isn't rebuilding with a new coach that would accept back to back losing seasons without change. It's really hard to have losing seasons in CBB. This was discussed before. There are at least five major college schools in a similar position: 1. Nebraska: Three straight losing season under Tim Miles 2. Missouri: Three straight losing seasons under Kim Anderson 3. Washington State: Three straight losing seasons under Ernie Kent 4. Penn State: Consecutive non-winning seasons under Pat Chambers 5. Mississippi State: Consecutive non-winning seasons under Ben Howland (Perennial underachievers such as Rutgers and BC do not count.) Decent point, but these aren't quite applicable: Tim Miles is on the hot seat at a school that puts no emphasis whatsoever into basketball. Chambers at Penn State is a similar situation. Kent, Anderson and Howland are new (within past 4 years) hires, so are given more time. Good chance Anderson is out after the season, and Howland will likely get one more to right the ship. Not sure about Kent. Perhaps the more appropriate statement would have been that "P5 coaches outside of the honeymoon period, at schools that place even a medium amount of emphasis on basketball..."
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 5, 2017 15:59:40 GMT -5
This was discussed before. There are at least five major college schools in a similar position: 1. Nebraska: Three straight losing season under Tim Miles 2. Missouri: Three straight losing seasons under Kim Anderson 3. Washington State: Three straight losing seasons under Ernie Kent 4. Penn State: Consecutive non-winning seasons under Pat Chambers 5. Mississippi State: Consecutive non-winning seasons under Ben Howland (Perennial underachievers such as Rutgers and BC do not count.) Decent point, but these aren't quite applicable: Tim Miles is on the hot seat at a school that puts no emphasis whatsoever into basketball. Chambers at Penn State is a similar situation. Kent, Anderson and Howland are new (within past 4 years) hires, so are given more time. Good chance Anderson is out after the season, and Howland will likely get one more to right the ship. Not sure about Kent. Perhaps the more appropriate statement would have been that "P5 coaches outside of the honeymoon period, at schools that place even a medium amount of emphasis on basketball..." Anderson officially out at Missouri
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 5, 2017 16:36:59 GMT -5
Anderson never had any success at D1, whereas JT3 had a record of success. Also, JT3 hasn't had three consecutive losing seasons. I think if we had another one next year the comparison would be more apt.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 5, 2017 16:43:56 GMT -5
This was discussed before. There are at least five major college schools in a similar position: 1. Nebraska: Three straight losing season under Tim Miles 2. Missouri: Three straight losing seasons under Kim Anderson 3. Washington State: Three straight losing seasons under Ernie Kent 4. Penn State: Consecutive non-winning seasons under Pat Chambers 5. Mississippi State: Consecutive non-winning seasons under Ben Howland (Perennial underachievers such as Rutgers and BC do not count.) Decent point, but these aren't quite applicable: Tim Miles is on the hot seat at a school that puts no emphasis whatsoever into basketball. Chambers at Penn State is a similar situation. Kent, Anderson and Howland are new (within past 4 years) hires, so are given more time. Good chance Anderson is out after the season, and Howland will likely get one more to right the ship. Not sure about Kent. Perhaps the more appropriate statement would have been that "P5 coaches outside of the honeymoon period, at schools that place even a medium amount of emphasis on basketball..." So Copeland chooses Nebraska, lol. Smart guy.
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royski
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Post by royski on Mar 5, 2017 16:56:09 GMT -5
I feel like Kellyanne Conway is in here with these comparisons to Villanova having 2 losing seasons a decade apart and us having two losing seasons IN A ROW, RIGHT NOW!
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 5, 2017 17:01:19 GMT -5
Anderson never had any success at D1, whereas JT3 had a record of success. Also, JT3 hasn't had three consecutive losing seasons. I think if we had another one next year the comparison would be more apt. Careful, KellyAnne. You're going to hurt your back moving the goalposts all the time.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 5, 2017 17:59:19 GMT -5
Anderson never had any success at D1, whereas JT3 had a record of success. Also, JT3 hasn't had three consecutive losing seasons. I think if we had another one next year the comparison would be more apt. Careful, KellyAnne. You're going to hurt your back moving the goalposts all the time. Go ahead and attack me or call me KellyAnne. I'm not sure why you need to insert your drivel (your personal attacks) into every thread. But you've been making the same points for the last 11 years at least so I guess I shouldn't expect anything different.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Mar 5, 2017 18:11:54 GMT -5
Decent point, but these aren't quite applicable: Tim Miles is on the hot seat at a school that puts no emphasis whatsoever into basketball. Chambers at Penn State is a similar situation. Kent, Anderson and Howland are new (within past 4 years) hires, so are given more time. Good chance Anderson is out after the season, and Howland will likely get one more to right the ship. Not sure about Kent. Perhaps the more appropriate statement would have been that "P5 coaches outside of the honeymoon period, at schools that place even a medium amount of emphasis on basketball..." Anderson officially out at Missouri Wow, didn't even see that--what timing! Kim Anderson was always a strange hire for Mizzou--I know they felt they needed to clean house after Haith, but going for a DII coach seems like giving up entirely. Anyways, the point of this discussion, as I understand it, was that there are 5 (now 4) coaches in the P5 with worse recent histories than our own. My counter was simply that those situations were distinguishable from JTIII's and that the previous point made largely correct--that 2 consecutive losing seasons is generally going to bring about change. And certainly at a power conference schools (yes I include the BE in that) where basketball is the marquee sport, 2 consecutive losing seasons is not tolerated.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Mar 5, 2017 18:16:14 GMT -5
Some of those guys took over rebuilding programs too, which I mentioned. I can't think of a coach in a similar position who lasted.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Mar 5, 2017 19:06:00 GMT -5
And that is where I disagree with many posters. Some on this board think that poor facilities are an excuse. The tougher academics should not scare anybody off. A top 20 kid thinks he could be in the NBA within 2 or 3 years. Probably a low % of these kids really care about the true value of the education. If you have crap facilities, it makes your job as a recruiter that much tougher. Does a Princeton style offense hurt things even more? Maybe. The effort appears to have been made to get great recruits. Do we blame coach for missing on Noel, Woods, Kyle Anderson,,..,,,? If our new facility had been built 5 years ago, could we be in a different situation now? It's just the one and done. If Silver can get rid of that then it will equal the playing field for all the schools in terms of recruiting. How many one and dones were on Nova last year?
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Post by hoyamass on Mar 5, 2017 19:56:05 GMT -5
Sorry, the comparison was with Jay Wright, who also has an NCAA Championship. Keep ignoring the inconvenient facts. Alternative facts!!!!! Except, at the time of his losing seasons he did not. That is just not a fair comparison. Jay Wright started at Villanova, went thru a rebuild, then made the NCAA's 7 years in a row, before taking a year off to rebuild. How that compares to JT3 I do not understand. You can't rebuild for 3 years when you've been at the same school for 10 years. That's not rebuilding - that's consistent bad recruiting.
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