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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on May 28, 2009 12:18:06 GMT -5
unfortunately the thread is mis-titled. Calipari is not named in the report and looks to me like he'll skate again. Kentucky should know better. Eddie "bags of cash in the mail" Sutton (ironically I think the incriminating envelope was from Fed-EX) got kentucky crucified for two years while he got off with a "failure to control the program" slap on the wrist while admitting no wrong-doing. He showed up in Stillwater coaching OSU a year later From ESPN article "Calipari left Memphis for Kentucky on March 31. The NCAA has requested his presence at the hearing, although he is not named in the report." Not sure if that gets him off the hook or not. Didn't some of Sampson's penalties travel with him to IU when he was first hired?
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on May 28, 2009 12:24:52 GMT -5
I've always been a major critic of the NBA age minimum. This whole situation stinks to high heaven, but can someone who was following at the time tell me if Rose was the caliber of HS player who would have gone straight into the league? If so, it's just another instance of a player who should be allowed to go into the NBA exploiting the college ranks for lack of another option (I know a lot of these kids weren't looking at going to Europe at the time... but sooner than later a lot of them will be going). The NBA shouldn't be getting rid of the age limit simly because some lazy guys don't want to study and because college programs are all too willing to allow them to slide. That's on the players and the NCAA. If some guys don't want to go to school then they can go overseas or play their Wii systems for a year until they are eligible. Doesn't matter. People need to stop acting as if its a crime that these kids can't jump immediately into the NBA. I think the bigger crime is the fact that American high schools graduate so many kids who are apparently incapable of attaining that elusive 800 on the SAT (or whatever the NCAA cutoff is these days).
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Post by gtowndynasty on May 28, 2009 12:39:10 GMT -5
Does anyone actually the official rule on how and if these violations can follow the Coach who was at the helm when they were perpetuated?! I have to imagine he has some culpability to answer for. If not, that is a loophole that ABSOLUTELY needs to be closed. Otherwise, in essence what you have is a Coach that tanks the program of a school, then as soon as he is investigated and it becomes blatantly obvious sanctions are coming, he bolts for another program...
that cant possibly happen, or can it? Recruiting/NCAA gurus please advise.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on May 28, 2009 12:46:35 GMT -5
unfortunately the thread is mis-titled. Calipari is not named in the report and looks to me like he'll skate again. Kentucky should know better. Eddie "bags of cash in the mail" Sutton (ironically I think the incriminating envelope was from Fed-EX) got kentucky crucified for two years while he got off with a "failure to control the program" slap on the wrist while admitting no wrong-doing. He showed up in Stillwater coaching OSU a year later I believe it was an Emery Worldwide envelope from UK assistant Dwane Casey to Chris Mills that opened in transit and revealed $1000.
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Post by tpk3 on May 28, 2009 13:35:07 GMT -5
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jacko
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Post by jacko on May 28, 2009 13:41:50 GMT -5
I've always been a major critic of the NBA age minimum. This whole situation stinks to high heaven, but can someone who was following at the time tell me if Rose was the caliber of HS player who would have gone straight into the league? If so, it's just another instance of a player who should be allowed to go into the NBA exploiting the college ranks for lack of another option (I know a lot of these kids weren't looking at going to Europe at the time... but sooner than later a lot of them will be going). The NBA shouldn't be getting rid of the age limit simly because some lazy guys don't want to study and because college programs are all too willing to allow them to slide. That's on the players and the NCAA. If some guys don't want to go to school then they can go overseas or play their Wii systems for a year until they are eligible. Doesn't matter. People need to stop acting as if its a crime that these kids can't jump immediately into the NBA. Totally agree it's not the NBA's problem. The NBA can do whatever it wants. This happens with kids of all skill levels: direct HS-NBA talent kinds of guys, and also some mediocre prospects. The colleges are totally at fault for the infraction. I think if the players are held accountable for a serious lapse in personal judgment (are they? what consequences do the former students face?) like, say, academic fraud, the number going to Europe is going to be insane in a few years. That is, until this situation becomes the NBA's problem. That won't happen until there's a can't-miss HS player like KG, LeBron, Amare, or Dwight. Those types of talents NEED to be able to come straight out. Just like they need to come out, your Derrick Roses and Darius Mileses and Leon Smiths who would benefit greatly from a year in college need to be allowed to jump, even if they aren't ready (IMO). It's not a crime that they can't jump HS-NBA until someone else as good as LeBron comes out of HS. Then people will be forced to actually consider the rule's negative implications for the NBA. The NBA shouldn't get rid of the age minimum because what universities do is somehow "on its conscience" (it's not) - they should get rid of it because in the long run it's going to lead to the Euro leagues pumping up and further fraud in the NCAA (again, not that the latter has to be the NBA's concern, though they could do something about it). School isn't for everyone, and the NBA age minimum is funneling professional basketball players into the NCAA - not a professional athletic organization - causing some people (allegedly Rose/Mayo so far) to treat their freshman years in college like some pure minor league experience, which it isn't.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 28, 2009 13:42:37 GMT -5
The smugness of some people on this board is disgusting. Our program is not Memphis, but it is not the Church Choir Boys either. No doubt our academics are some of the best around, but not every kid is Jon Wallace. Some of our kids are not angels, and that is a fact. So quit putting down other programs and their players, because karma is a bitch. If our program was involved in fraud -- someone taking a players tests before or in college -- I would put us down as well. Not being smart isn't the issue. Cheating is.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on May 28, 2009 13:43:49 GMT -5
Some of our kids are not angels, and that is a fact. So quit putting down other programs and their players, because karma is a bitch. I can only think of the Marc Egerson controversy as something that would back up your statement. Kenny Brunner had some issues on campus as well, but that was not academic or admissions related. So what are some of these facts? Extend this to the Esherick era as well and say over the last 10 years. What facts about our players not being angels would warrant an NCAA investigation?
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Post by tpk3 on May 28, 2009 13:56:31 GMT -5
The smugness of some people on this board is disgusting. Our program is not Memphis, but it is not the Church Choir Boys either. No doubt our academics are some of the best around, but not every kid is Jon Wallace. Some of our kids are not angels, and that is a fact. So quit putting down other programs and their players, because karma is a bitch. This coming from the guy that wanted Jason Clark to start a blog Me thinks that you are about to get your "buddy" into trouble. With supposed friends like you, Jason Clark will never need an ex-wife.
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2ndRyan
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Post by 2ndRyan on May 28, 2009 14:06:26 GMT -5
Sorry we ARE morally superior to Memphis, Connecticut, Southern Cal, Syracuse and any other number of bad actors that intentionally skirt the rules.
I like it that we win and we seem to win by following the rules. If it's ever apparent to me that the program isn't run on the up and up, I think I'll be less interested.
If you're a "win at all costs" guy go find yourself an SEC or Big 12 school to root for.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on May 28, 2009 14:20:05 GMT -5
The NBA shouldn't get rid of the age minimum because what universities do is somehow "on its conscience" (it's not) - they should get rid of it because in the long run it's going to lead to the Euro leagues pumping up and further fraud in the NCAA (again, not that the latter has to be the NBA's concern, though they could do something about it). Disagree. The Euro leagues don't have limitless pockets. Despite all the worrying by some during last summer there is not going to be a rush of American players to foreign countries. The NBA league officials like the one year rule and are serious about bumping it up to two. For those dudes in high school who are allergic to books and don't want to do schoolwork the they are free to play in some minor league in America or go to Europe and try to find room on those teams. But the NBA likes the rule and doesn't want to go back. And remember it created this rule DESPITE the fact that LeBron came in just a couple of years before and brought a lot of new attention to the league. That tells you the guys running the league think its still better for the guys to be a little older before they suit up for the NBA. Again that's a problem for the NCAA and the high school players.
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2ndRyan
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Post by 2ndRyan on May 28, 2009 14:45:36 GMT -5
Thanks Jack for the exact and correct details of the infamous envelope. The envelope was sent by Coach Casey not Coach Sutton. Great significance was attached to this by the NCAA which saw fit to put Coach Casey on probation for five years.
Coach Sutton was reprimanded for what amounted to lack of supervision and was back as a head Coach within a year.
I think if you would talk to Coach Sutton today he would regret his lack of supervision of Coach Casey. He should have made sure Coach Casey sealed the Emery Worldwide envelope tigher.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 28, 2009 15:07:46 GMT -5
Sorry we ARE morally superior to Memphis, Connecticut, Southern Cal, Syracuse and any other number of bad actors that intentionally skirt the rules. I like it that we win and we seem to win by following the rules. If it's ever apparent to me that the program isn't run on the up and up, I think I'll be less interested. If you're a "win at all costs" guy go find yourself an SEC or Big 12 school to root for. Now, now ... I believe that's a bit of a false statement. UConn is a Big East team and FSU is an ACC team. UConn basketball under Calhoun and FSU football under Bowden/Andrews/Weatherall (and Dave Hart before him) are certainly near the top of that list, not to mention USC (Trojans, not Gamecocks).
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on May 28, 2009 15:13:19 GMT -5
The NBA shouldn't get rid of the age minimum because what universities do is somehow "on its conscience" (it's not) - they should get rid of it because in the long run it's going to lead to the Euro leagues pumping up and further fraud in the NCAA (again, not that the latter has to be the NBA's concern, though they could do something about it). Disagree. The Euro leagues don't have limitless pockets. Despite all the worrying by some during last summer there is not going to be a rush of American players to foreign countries. The NBA league officials like the one year rule and are serious about bumping it up to two. For those dudes in high school who are allergic to books and don't want to do schoolwork the they are free to play in some minor league in America or go to Europe and try to find room on those teams. But the NBA likes the rule and doesn't want to go back. And remember it created this rule DESPITE the fact that LeBron came in just a couple of years before and brought a lot of new attention to the league. That tells you the guys running the league think its still better for the guys to be a little older before they suit up for the NBA. I think the Euro League can handle it just fine. If a dozen high school kids start going overseas instead of just one or two, I doubt they'll be paying the same $2 million they do now. Supply/Demand will take care of it. Also, on the age-limit in the NBA. You also have to remember that the players union is probably an even bigger proponent for it than the league itself, since it keeps current union members from losing their highly paid jobs...
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jacko
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Post by jacko on May 28, 2009 16:40:05 GMT -5
The NBA shouldn't get rid of the age minimum because what universities do is somehow "on its conscience" (it's not) - they should get rid of it because in the long run it's going to lead to the Euro leagues pumping up and further fraud in the NCAA (again, not that the latter has to be the NBA's concern, though they could do something about it). Disagree. The Euro leagues don't have limitless pockets. Despite all the worrying by some during last summer there is not going to be a rush of American players to foreign countries. The NBA league officials like the one year rule and are serious about bumping it up to two. For those dudes in high school who are allergic to books and don't want to do schoolwork the they are free to play in some minor league in America or go to Europe and try to find room on those teams. But the NBA likes the rule and doesn't want to go back. And remember it created this rule DESPITE the fact that LeBron came in just a couple of years before and brought a lot of new attention to the league. That tells you the guys running the league think its still better for the guys to be a little older before they suit up for the NBA. Again that's a problem for the NCAA and the high school players. First part: The guys running the NBA don't have a problem now, but when every can't miss prospect is funneled into the Euroleagues, the NBA will start to lose clout as the premiere basketball league in the world. There hasn't been a rush yet because there haven't been any instant superstars. I believe there will be. Second part: If I were running the NBA, I think you know what I'd do. Increased NCAA infractions by high profile players wouldn't be a reason not to strike the age minimum, but reduced NCAA infractions would be a positive by-product. But I'm not running the NBA, so who cares?
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 28, 2009 18:14:15 GMT -5
The guys running the NBA don't have a problem now, but when every can't miss prospect is funneled into the Euroleagues, the NBA will start to lose clout as the premiere basketball league in the world. There hasn't been a rush yet because there haven't been any instant superstars. I believe there will be. The facts dont support this logic. There are about (depending on which projection you look at) eight Euro players projected to be drafted this year, including the projected 2/3 pick, Ricky Rubio. To me this says that the best players in Europe want to play for the NBA. Of course one could argue that the reason for this is the higher NBA salaries. However I would put good money on it that this will not change even if Euro salaries catch up. The NHL is currently competing with Russia's KHL which pays salaries that are at least as high as the NHL in addition to the Russian players paying minimal taxes, receiving housing from the teams, and even being able to eat on the team's bill much of the time. What has been seen is that the NHL players that have "defected" to the KHL are 1) Russian, 2) Usually at the end of their careers, 3) unwanted by NHL teams, or 4) consider themselves under valued by the NHL (though they are usually wrong on this last point). Almost every former NHL player in the KHL fits at least two and usually three of the points. What has not happened yet (the KHL is only a few years old so the sample is small), is top prospects deciding they would rather go the KHL then play Junior hockey or college hockey. If the same would happen in the NBA is that they should be concerned about players staying in their own country, being old, being unwanted, or not getting paid enough. If you are primarily concerned with missing out on the next big star, being old clearly does not apply; not getting paid as much as they think they are worth is not a problem in that the base scale for drafted players is set before the draft (and high salaries are the norm in the NBA anyway); and a player that is unwanted is not going to be the next Kobe. So the NBA should only be worried about players wanting to stay in their home countries. But endorsements keep this from happening for the most part. The real reason the next NBA super star wont end up in Europe is that if players dont want to go to college they can play Euro for a years and then get drafted; they can have it both ways. What the NBA should really be worried about is the next Lebron having to go play in college then sometime in say February of his freshman year he tears his ACL in half after getting hard fouled on a lay up and never being able to play again. But NCAA infractions, the NBA could careless, heck they dont mind players committing real crimes or attacking fans that much, who cares about cheating on a test or skipping class.
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Post by tpk3 on May 28, 2009 18:33:52 GMT -5
www.suntimes.com/news/education/1596666,derrick-rose-simeon-grades-cheat-memphis.article hits just keep on coming. more violations. i want back that game at memphis.......and i really want that final 4 from 1996.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on May 28, 2009 19:08:28 GMT -5
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 28, 2009 19:32:28 GMT -5
I wonder if Kentucky's fans are still happy about having gone to bed with the devil.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 28, 2009 20:18:48 GMT -5
I wonder if Kentucky's fans are still happy about having gone to bed with the devil. They are. They are spouting the same "Calipari has never been accused/Worldwide Wes is just a philanthropist" sort of crap Memphis fans did. To their defense, most fans have a real hard time admitting ethical wrongdoing, because that either means not rooting for the team at some point or saying that it doesn't matter.
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