hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jun 20, 2024 20:21:16 GMT -5
If Hoya basketball does not improve significantly under Cooley, and given the tenuous nature of college sports, its possible a search for a big time coach won't be necessary. Not sure I understand. Big time like Pitino or Calipari type? There are plenty of good candidates that are up and comers. 100% agree - how “big time” was Danny Hurley when UCONN hired him from Rhode Island? With a different president who doesn’t require the hire to be approved by a dead guy who was a good coach 40 years ago, we have a great opportunity to hire a stud once Cooley’s done.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jun 20, 2024 21:08:51 GMT -5
I say expand the tournament to 300 teams so we can get in In the last two seasons, I'm not sure that expanding the tournament to 300 teams would have gotten us in. Play-in game.
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jun 21, 2024 18:54:12 GMT -5
If Hoya basketball does not improve significantly under Cooley, and given the tenuous nature of college sports, its possible a search for a big time coach won't be necessary. Not sure I understand. Big time like Pitino or Calipari type? There are plenty of good candidates that are up and comers. The point is that with the shifting landscape of college sports, if the Cooley tenure is a failure, the job we’re hiring the new coach into might not be a “high-major” position anymore.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jun 21, 2024 19:42:44 GMT -5
Not sure I understand. Big time like Pitino or Calipari type? There are plenty of good candidates that are up and comers. The point is that with the shifting landscape of college sports, if the Cooley tenure is a failure, the job we’re hiring the new coach into might not be a “high-major” position anymore. If we are just doing extreme hypotheticals, there are scenarios where Cooley far surpasses what he accomplished at his last stop but Georgetown still drops from high major status because they don't have high level football.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 21, 2024 22:47:29 GMT -5
For all the talk about Cooley, if he fails, there is a decent chance that the program never makes as big an investment in a coach, and that we are basically resigned to being Big East bottom dwellers into eternity. While DeGioia has had his faults, including with the basketball program, we have no idea what the next President would do if we had a basketball search (could be better, could be worst). Cooley or bust is a strange attitude to have imo. The next search will likely be an actual search. I think that increases the chances that it's better. To address this and also prhoya's post, as someone who has been affiliated with Georgetown now for almost 25 years, I am never going to underestimate Georgetown's ability to get in its own way. Mount Vernon, etc. The list is long. So if you want to know why I am pessimistic, that's why. Sure, a new President could be fantastic and have a national search. Or not. For me, it's less about the next search being a "real search" and more about the university being willing to devote the resources we are accustomed to. As much as I fault DeGioia, that's really never been a problem with him. He's clearly willing to spend on Georgetown basketball (even if some of that spending, like Ewing's extension, is very irresponsible). While I think right now that will continue even after DeGioia, you never know what years and years of horrible teams can do to a program, especially when combined with bad leadership.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jun 22, 2024 18:51:53 GMT -5
Cooley or bust is a strange attitude to have imo. The next search will likely be an actual search. I think that increases the chances that it's better. To address this and also prhoya's post, as someone who has been affiliated with Georgetown now for almost 25 years, I am never going to underestimate Georgetown's ability to get in its own way. Mount Vernon, etc. The list is long. So if you want to know why I am pessimistic, that's why. Sure, a new President could be fantastic and have a national search. Or not. For me, it's less about the next search being a "real search" and more about the university being willing to devote the resources we are accustomed to. As much as I fault DeGioia, that's really never been a problem with him. He's clearly willing to spend on Georgetown basketball (even if some of that spending, like Ewing's extension, is very irresponsible). While I think right now that will continue even after DeGioia, you never know what years and years of horrible teams can do to a program, especially when combined with bad leadership. Actually all we really know is that DeGioia is willing to spend on Thompson approved Georgetown basketball.
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Post by practice on Jun 24, 2024 11:06:29 GMT -5
Cooley's getting 3 years minimum before his job is danger. He's a big name hire. He's had success before. He had a rocky initial year and we'll see how the 2nd season turns out ... but if anyone here thinks he'll be fired if he has an equally bad 2nd season ... well I think that's crazy talk. Georgetown DRAGS things out. One could argue that the school moved quickly on Esherick ... but I suspect that was tied directly to JT3's availability. Does no one here remember how long Ewing was coaching??? There is a BIG difference between Ewing the bad coach and Cooley's bad season ... Cooley has been successful. He'll get there. This team will be better. They are likely one big body short of a half decent preseason ranking ... and if Fielder/Sorber is good enough at the 5 then I think they'll jump to that 5-8 range in the BE standings next year.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 24, 2024 11:50:11 GMT -5
Cooley's getting 3 years minimum before his job is danger. He's a big name hire. He's had success before. He had a rocky initial year and we'll see how the 2nd season turns out ... but if anyone here thinks he'll be fired if he has an equally bad 2nd season ... well I think that's crazy talk. Georgetown DRAGS things out. One could argue that the school moved quickly on Esherick ... but I suspect that was tied directly to JT3's availability. Does no one here remember how long Ewing was coaching??? There is a BIG difference between Ewing the bad coach and Cooley's bad season ... Cooley has been successful. He'll get there. This team will be better. They are likely one big body short of a half decent preseason ranking ... and if Fielder/Sorber is good enough at the 5 then I think they'll jump to that 5-8 range in the BE standings next year. It’s a shame this has to be written. This board is so toxic with negativity that I would pray no recruit ever finds out about this site. Hoya fans here in a span of a year have become greater detractors of Cooley than the most bitter Providence fans. Some people, like hoyaboya, have been adapting Friars fans talking points from the very beginning. It is fine to be greatly disappointed by last year and to want to make sure Cooley does not get a free pass. However this has gotten absurd.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 24, 2024 12:03:59 GMT -5
Cooley's getting 3 years minimum before his job is danger. He's a big name hire. He's had success before. He had a rocky initial year and we'll see how the 2nd season turns out ... but if anyone here thinks he'll be fired if he has an equally bad 2nd season ... well I think that's crazy talk. Georgetown DRAGS things out. One could argue that the school moved quickly on Esherick ... but I suspect that was tied directly to JT3's availability. Does no one here remember how long Ewing was coaching??? There is a BIG difference between Ewing the bad coach and Cooley's bad season ... Cooley has been successful. He'll get there. This team will be better. They are likely one big body short of a half decent preseason ranking ... and if Fielder/Sorber is good enough at the 5 then I think they'll jump to that 5-8 range in the BE standings next year. It’s a shame this has to be written. This board is so toxic with negativity that I would pray no recruit ever finds out about this site. Hoya fans here in a span of a year have become greater detractors of Cooley than the most bitter Providence fans. Some people, like hoyaboya, have been adapting Friars fans talking points from the very beginning. It is fine to be greatly disappointed by last year and to want to make sure Cooley does not get a free pass. However this has gotten absurd. The discussion above was about the administration, not Cooley
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Jun 26, 2024 16:30:00 GMT -5
I've been trying to wait til the end of the offseason to post some thoughts. I assumed that would happen when we signed a center, but seeing how its June 27th, and the center we sign is probably someone inconsequential at this point, figured I'd let it rip: - If i had to grade the offseason, it really feels like a B+. Cliff O or a stud big would have made it an A, but I still think it's been a relatively successful offseason. Now I'm including the incoming freshmen here in the grade in terms of roster overhaul season to season. If you judged just the transfer class against what we lost to the portal, I'm probably closer to B/B-.
- Count me as someone tired of the NIL discussion already. I fully support players getting paid, I don't really have a problem with that. It's just tough that the thing that is literally going to drive the success of the program is so opaque. We don't know 1) what our NIL budget is, 2) what competitors have available, or 3) what literally any one player on our roster has agreed to. Yet it's the dominant topic about how we should be spending NIL. This board at times sounds like discussions about a pro team with a salary cap. Except there, the cap is known and contracts are publicized. Here we're all basically just guessing
- Last point on NIL, I think Cooley is stuck between trying to drum up interest from average fan and bring more people in vs. being realistic and managing expectations. All the leaks about us having a Top 5 NIL bag seem crazy in retrospect. Sure, Cooley did a ton of work to be competitive and increase our number year to year. And in the big east, we might be on par with the upper class. But nationally, that just doesnt seem possible. All the blue bloods have crazy NIL to land the top freshmen. Do we really think we had more money than Michigan, Louisville, even K State? Are more like top 25, where our class seems to rank?
- The roster construction entirely revolves around Epps imo. They watched him play for a year, and felt he was someone worth building around. People might scoff at that. I personally think the board tends to ignore the toll of getting the ball handed back to you with 10 seconds left on the clock to have to create your own. It becomes this weight and clouds your decisions. Like there's 20 seconds on the clock and you have an ok look, do you take it? First instinct is no move the ball around. But if its coming back to you with 5 seconds left and you're going to be forced to chuck one then, well you're probably better off taking the ok look at the 20 second mark. Of course that's not efficient basketball, but I get how you go down that rabbit hole quickly.
- The evaluation on Epps was clearly positive but that they needed another playmaker (I can't even follow the latest Rowan rumor, and I don't care. He's a player that you would hope by senior year was a dependable starter, but we didnt have the luxury of waiting). And they got one of the top ones in Mack. There's a ton of transfer rankings, im partial to Sam Vecenie at the Athletic, he grinds tape on every player and was updating realtime as players entered. He had Mack in his top 15. The chemistry between Mack and Epps will determine our fate on offense. If it's bad Mackinjo, we're in trouble. If they're just alternating possessions, we're gonna hate it. But if they play off each other, leverage the attention the other creates, I really think we're going to be fine on offense. I'm assuming one of them is on the court at all times. And if Fielder is playing center instead of PF, you're 5 out and it will be really difficult to keep Epps and Mack from getting to the hoop. Our offense was 101 last year. It wasn't the problem, which we'll get to.
- So once you have a small backcourt like Epps / Mack paired together, every other spot in the lineup needs to be plus length and defense focus. Peavy was naturally target 1, and they delivered. Also I don't see where Styles fits or is really necessary once you have that backcourt. Sure, someone who can hit a corner 3 is great (his % from elsewhere was much worse) but you need plus plus defenders surrounding them and I didnt have Styles as that player. Can a frontcourt of Peavy / Burks / Fielder offset the defensive issues of a small backcourt? I dont know, but it's not crazy to think it's possible. That's a ton of length, appreciate it's vulnerable to traditional back to basket post players, but we'll see how much work Fielder did in the gym. Also that's a problem I can live with. As long as this team hustles for rebounds, i'll live with a team trying to post us to death. I think it was the Battle interview where they said the entire focus is on defense. We heard it from Ewing before so I get the skepticism. But this isn't Ewing. Cooley has a track record of proven success on that end of the court. I'm confident we'll get to respectable there.
- Did Cooley swing too big on the center position? I guess? Would this board really have been thrilled if we grabbed Christ Essakando from St Joes (he landed at Provy) as early as he signed? Cooley would be getting criticism for not aiming higher. The reality is he's "wrong" until they start winning.
- So where does it leave us? I'm willing to put us ahead of DePaul, Butler, Seton Hall. And I'm tempted to say we'll be better than Providence but if Hopkins is all the way back they'd have the edge. But put me as someone fascinated that Provy is all in on English after he missed the NCAA's with the BE player of year and lottery pick. He's recruiting well, but their offense was terrible and they won with defense. Having a guard in Carter be like 3rd in rebounding tilts so much that I dont think they realize how hard he'll be to replace.
- I really feel like we're building toward a year 3 breakthrough. That was always the traditional turnaround timeline, pre-portal. The transfer portal clearly skewed what we thought was possible in that regard. But for all of the people saying "build it like UConn", Hurley brought in some transfers but ultimately had a core of HS recruits (Hawkins, Sanogo, Jackson) build and then hit the portal when they were ready. He didnt make the tourney til year 3, and then lost in first round two years in a row before it clicked. This board is out of patience because of the Ewing era, not the Cooley era. People need to remember we haven't even played a game in year 2 under him. I'm still bullish
Hoya Saxa
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 26, 2024 17:37:09 GMT -5
The roster construction entirely revolves around Epps imo. They watched him play for a year, and felt he was someone worth building around. People might scoff at that. I personally think the board tends to ignore the toll of getting the ball handed back to you with 10 seconds left on the clock to have to create your own. It becomes this weight and clouds your decisions. Like there's 20 seconds on the clock and you have an ok look, do you take it? First instinct is no move the ball around. But if its coming back to you with 5 seconds left and you're going to be forced to chuck one then, well you're probably better off taking the ok look at the 20 second mark. Of course that's not efficient basketball, but I get how you go down that rabbit hole quickly. The evaluation on Epps was clearly positive but that they needed another playmaker (I can't even follow the latest Rowan rumor, and I don't care. He's a player that you would hope by senior year was a dependable starter, but we didnt have the luxury of waiting). And they got one of the top ones in Mack. There's a ton of transfer rankings, im partial to Sam Vecenie at the Athletic, he grinds tape on every player and was updating realtime as players entered. He had Mack in his top 15. The chemistry between Mack and Epps will determine our fate on offense. If it's bad Mackinjo, we're in trouble. If they're just alternating possessions, we're gonna hate it. But if they play off each other, leverage the attention the other creates, I really think we're going to be fine on offense. I'm assuming one of them is on the court at all times. And if Fielder is playing center instead of PF, you're 5 out and it will be really difficult to keep Epps and Mack from getting to the hoop. Our offense was 101 last year. It wasn't the problem, which we'll get to. In regards to Epps and Mack, I think you've largely hit it on the head. I actually don't think we are going to see a ton of synergy, and I don't think we need to. Oh, the split in defensive attention will be some, but they aren't going to be Steph and Klay on day one. But even if they are mostly trading off, the benefits are real. - You have to put your second best perimeter defender on one of them when they are both out there.
- You can't shade as heavy to Epps when they are both out there.
- There's some level of uncertainty in late shot clock and late game situations.
- We don't have to have all ball penetration off the court when Epps sits.
- Both draw a lot of fouls, which has a ton of downstream benefit.
- Neither has to play as many minutes or exert as much energy, leading to less lazy or tired threes because you don't have the energy to drive or move off the ball.
It'll be great if they really learn to play off each other, even if it is getting the other more spot up threes. But even if you look at the above, Epps' #1 issue was his low three point percent. He's clearly got a pretty good stroke; if he can improve his percentage through practice, fewer minutes and shot selection, it transforms his game in terms of efficiency. There's obviously some concern about two ball dominant players coming together, and if we were chasing a national title, I'd say the fit wasn't great. But we aren't. We needed more dribble skill, we needed more creation. We got it, and it will help both of them.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 26, 2024 20:15:45 GMT -5
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jun 27, 2024 6:23:18 GMT -5
I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised about the differing trajectories/excitement levels surrounding the Georgetown and Providence programs at the moment. In the end, we might have done them an enormous favor. We end up with a lackluster coach who had passed his prime, and they have an up-and-comer, even if he uses them as a steppingstone. Yet another brilliant move by the Georgetown administration. Karma is a b, I guess. Bro, you need to report to the Admins that HoyaBoya stole your account credentials and is logging in as you.
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Post by hibernatinghoyafan on Jun 27, 2024 10:44:59 GMT -5
I've been trying to wait til the end of the offseason to post some thoughts. I assumed that would happen when we signed a center, but seeing how its June 27th, and the center we sign is probably someone inconsequential at this point, figured I'd let it rip: - If i had to grade the offseason, it really feels like a B+. Cliff O or a stud big would have made it an A, but I still think it's been a relatively successful offseason. Now I'm including the incoming freshmen here in the grade in terms of roster overhaul season to season. If you judged just the transfer class against what we lost to the portal, I'm probably closer to B/B-.
- Count me as someone tired of the NIL discussion already. I fully support players getting paid, I don't really have a problem with that. It's just tough that the thing that is literally going to drive the success of the program is so opaque. We don't know 1) what our NIL budget is, 2) what competitors have available, or 3) what literally any one player on our roster has agreed to. Yet it's the dominant topic about how we should be spending NIL. This board at times sounds like discussions about a pro team with a salary cap. Except there, the cap is known and contracts are publicized. Here we're all basically just guessing
- Last point on NIL, I think Cooley is stuck between trying to drum up interest from average fan and bring more people in vs. being realistic and managing expectations. All the leaks about us having a Top 5 NIL bag seem crazy in retrospect. Sure, Cooley did a ton of work to be competitive and increase our number year to year. And in the big east, we might be on par with the upper class. But nationally, that just doesnt seem possible. All the blue bloods have crazy NIL to land the top freshmen. Do we really think we had more money than Michigan, Louisville, even K State? Are more like top 25, where our class seems to rank?
- The roster construction entirely revolves around Epps imo. They watched him play for a year, and felt he was someone worth building around. People might scoff at that. I personally think the board tends to ignore the toll of getting the ball handed back to you with 10 seconds left on the clock to have to create your own. It becomes this weight and clouds your decisions. Like there's 20 seconds on the clock and you have an ok look, do you take it? First instinct is no move the ball around. But if its coming back to you with 5 seconds left and you're going to be forced to chuck one then, well you're probably better off taking the ok look at the 20 second mark. Of course that's not efficient basketball, but I get how you go down that rabbit hole quickly.
- The evaluation on Epps was clearly positive but that they needed another playmaker (I can't even follow the latest Rowan rumor, and I don't care. He's a player that you would hope by senior year was a dependable starter, but we didnt have the luxury of waiting). And they got one of the top ones in Mack. There's a ton of transfer rankings, im partial to Sam Vecenie at the Athletic, he grinds tape on every player and was updating realtime as players entered. He had Mack in his top 15. The chemistry between Mack and Epps will determine our fate on offense. If it's bad Mackinjo, we're in trouble. If they're just alternating possessions, we're gonna hate it. But if they play off each other, leverage the attention the other creates, I really think we're going to be fine on offense. I'm assuming one of them is on the court at all times. And if Fielder is playing center instead of PF, you're 5 out and it will be really difficult to keep Epps and Mack from getting to the hoop. Our offense was 101 last year. It wasn't the problem, which we'll get to.
- So once you have a small backcourt like Epps / Mack paired together, every other spot in the lineup needs to be plus length and defense focus. Peavy was naturally target 1, and they delivered. Also I don't see where Styles fits or is really necessary once you have that backcourt. Sure, someone who can hit a corner 3 is great (his % from elsewhere was much worse) but you need plus plus defenders surrounding them and I didnt have Styles as that player. Can a frontcourt of Peavy / Burks / Fielder offset the defensive issues of a small backcourt? I dont know, but it's not crazy to think it's possible. That's a ton of length, appreciate it's vulnerable to traditional back to basket post players, but we'll see how much work Fielder did in the gym. Also that's a problem I can live with. As long as this team hustles for rebounds, i'll live with a team trying to post us to death. I think it was the Battle interview where they said the entire focus is on defense. We heard it from Ewing before so I get the skepticism. But this isn't Ewing. Cooley has a track record of proven success on that end of the court. I'm confident we'll get to respectable there.
- Did Cooley swing too big on the center position? I guess? Would this board really have been thrilled if we grabbed Christ Essakando from St Joes (he landed at Provy) as early as he signed? Cooley would be getting criticism for not aiming higher. The reality is he's "wrong" until they start winning.
- So where does it leave us? I'm willing to put us ahead of DePaul, Butler, Seton Hall. And I'm tempted to say we'll be better than Providence but if Hopkins is all the way back they'd have the edge. But put me as someone fascinated that Provy is all in on English after he missed the NCAA's with the BE player of year and lottery pick. He's recruiting well, but their offense was terrible and they won with defense. Having a guard in Carter be like 3rd in rebounding tilts so much that I dont think they realize how hard he'll be to replace.
- I really feel like we're building toward a year 3 breakthrough. That was always the traditional turnaround timeline, pre-portal. The transfer portal clearly skewed what we thought was possible in that regard. But for all of the people saying "build it like UConn", Hurley brought in some transfers but ultimately had a core of HS recruits (Hawkins, Sanogo, Jackson) build and then hit the portal when they were ready. He didnt make the tourney til year 3, and then lost in first round two years in a row before it clicked. This board is out of patience because of the Ewing era, not the Cooley era. People need to remember we haven't even played a game in year 2 under him. I'm still bullish
Hoya Saxa Thanks for the thoughts. I agree with a lot of what you said. It’s just very unnerving that an injury to either Epps/Mack or Fielder/Sorber completely screws us given the lack of another insurance price at either position.
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Post by hoyasaxaphone on Jun 27, 2024 12:08:11 GMT -5
I still don't get Burks being penciled in as a starter on this team. He may earn it. But at this point, he is a tall, athletic 3 star high school recruit who barely saw the floor at Kentucky. I get his potential though.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jun 27, 2024 12:15:27 GMT -5
I still don't get Burks being penciled in as a starter on this team. He may earn it. But at this point, he is a tall, athletic 3 star high school recruit who barely saw the floor at Kentucky. I get his potential though. Don't worry about it. We have Judah Mintz as a ball dominant lead guard along with Eddie Lampkin as our big. I just love revisiting the early transfer rumors. Frankly cheering for that duo would have me vomiting in my mouth. I would like to see the Kenny Johnson connect start to pay some dividends. Taking a guy with a checkered past is fine if he delivers. I am assuming it wasn't an X's & O's hire.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 27, 2024 14:05:15 GMT -5
I still don't get Burks being penciled in as a starter on this team. He may earn it. But at this point, he is a tall, athletic 3 star high school recruit who barely saw the floor at Kentucky. I get his potential though. Please point out any other bigs with the athleticism to guard perimeter players on our roster who are not needed at center. McKenna is an interesting prospect but I haven't seen anything in his highlights to suggest he can play as a big. Note: I am not saying he can't. I just haven't seen any of McKenna in that situation. You may ask if I have seen any of Burks as a big. Yes, his highlights showed him playing the big in the PNR. I guess you could go with Peavy...but having him guard 4s after he guarded Epps while playing us might be a mis-use of his best skill set. So you could see Peavy at 4 with Curtis or McKenna at 3. My guess....and it is only a guess....is that Burks will start at 4. You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion.
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conshyhoya
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Post by conshyhoya on Jun 27, 2024 14:06:13 GMT -5
I still don't get Burks being penciled in as a starter on this team. He may earn it. But at this point, he is a tall, athletic 3 star high school recruit who barely saw the floor at Kentucky. I get his potential though. Because he is the most logical with the current roster. Ideally Fielder would play there but really only Sorber and Fielder would be the 5 so that leaves Burks. You could play Peavy or McKenna but ideally they play the 3. Basically that makes it his unless he loses it. I'm sure we will see many different lineups especially as some of the Freshman get acclimated to college ball but day 1 I would think we see Burks in the starting 5.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jun 27, 2024 14:34:23 GMT -5
I still don't get Burks being penciled in as a starter on this team. He may earn it. But at this point, he is a tall, athletic 3 star high school recruit who barely saw the floor at Kentucky. I get his potential though. Don't worry about it. We have Judah Mintz as a ball dominant lead guard along with Eddie Lampkin as our big. I just love revisiting the early transfer rumors. Frankly cheering for that duo would have me vomiting in my mouth. I would like to see the Kenny Johnson connect start to pay some dividends. Taking a guy with a checkered past is fine if he delivers. I am assuming it wasn't an X's & O's hire. Kenny Johnson is probably part of the reason Mack is even here. Also will definitely be the reason we are going even be in with Jordan Smith Jr.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jun 27, 2024 14:35:56 GMT -5
Don't worry about it. We have Judah Mintz as a ball dominant lead guard along with Eddie Lampkin as our big. I just love revisiting the early transfer rumors. Frankly cheering for that duo would have me vomiting in my mouth. I would like to see the Kenny Johnson connect start to pay some dividends. Taking a guy with a checkered past is fine if he delivers. I am assuming it wasn't an X's & O's hire. Kenny Johnson is probably part of the reason Mack is even here. Also will definitely be the reason we are going even be in with Jordan Smith Jr. Same with getting Samuels and Moody on unofficals so early
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