2024 Hoya Offseason

[hoyaboya]

Jun 18, 2024 12:49:45 GMT -5 hoyaguy said:

Jun 18, 2024 11:32:24 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

What constraint did Gtown have after firing arguably the 2nd most popular but definitely the 2nd most important figure in program history?

Jack hard vetoing even interviewing Pitino. I’m not trying to restart that argument but that’s what was reported. We didn’t have much restraint outside of head coaches who’ve had violations.

This is completely untrue. Cooley checked a lot of boxes that were important to Jack D., most importantly that he came approved of by JT II. The fact that Cooley uses the same attorney as the Thompsons helped cement things before the 2023 season was even over. We never interviewed a single candidate. As I said in a previous post, Cooley and his camp found the perfect mark in the Georgetown administration, particularly coming off two disastrous Ewing-coached seasons.

[EtomicB]

Jun 18, 2024 12:55:22 GMT -5 kghoya said:

Jun 18, 2024 11:32:24 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

What constraint did Gtown have after firing arguably the 2nd most popular but definitely the 2nd most important figure in program history?

Being limited to coaches that were thought to be approved by the most important figure in program history.

This is fair, for sure..

However as someone who never believed Pitino wanted to come to Gtown, and that he's where he wanted to be, it's a small constraint not being able to chase Pitino.

[bluechi]

Jun 18, 2024 10:54:15 GMT -5 guru said:

I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised about the differing trajectories/excitement levels surrounding the Georgetown and Providence programs at the moment. In the end, we might have done them an enormous favor. We end up with a lackluster coach who had passed his prime, and they have an up-and-comer, even if he uses them as a steppingstone. Yet another brilliant move by the Georgetown administration. Karma is a b, I guess.

he's not lackluster and throwing in that odd karma statement seems sus

[bluechi]

Though if I hear Ed Cooley utter the word "patience" one time I'm going to the moon.

[jwp91]

Jun 18, 2024 10:54:15 GMT -5 guru said:

I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised about the differing trajectories/excitement levels surrounding the Georgetown and Providence programs at the moment. In the end, we might have done them an enormous favor. We end up with a lackluster coach who had passed his prime, and they have an up-and-comer, even if he uses them as a steppingstone. Yet another brilliant move by the Georgetown administration. Karma is a b, I guess.

We all feel negative sometimes. Maybe just step away from the keyboard and go for a walk when you feel like you do

There are a few reasons to have hope.

1) Epps, Fielder, and McKenna stuck.
2) We will have a really dynamic backcourt
3) We have a really talented freshman class
4). Peavy should re-establish a defensive presence
4) There is no reason Cooley can't keep these 9 returning guys together after the season.
5).What Fielder and Sorber lack in experience, they make up for with potential.
6) We didn't make a boneheaded move and bring in someone like Eddie Lampkin who blocked fewer shots than Cook.

Our journey won't be without missteps and mistakes, but I feel a wind at our back. You can too if you choose to.

[bluegray79]

Jun 18, 2024 10:54:15 GMT -5 guru said:

I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised about the differing trajectories/excitement levels surrounding the Georgetown and Providence programs at the moment. In the end, we might have done them an enormous favor. We end up with a lackluster coach who had passed his prime, and they have an up-and-comer, even if he uses them as a steppingstone. Yet another brilliant move by the Georgetown administration. Karma is a b, I guess.

Unless we have hard, verifiable evidence about a coach, it's a fool's errand to take a bunch of seemingly true circumstantial "evidence" and make definitive statements about them.  "Lackluster", "past his prime"?  Based on what?  One losing season and some disappointments in the ensuing off season where we garner high recruiting and transfer class rankings?  Maybe things aren't happening as quickly as many would like, but we have to be big boys and girls and separate our disappointments from the bizarro reality of college sports and 10 years of Hoya men's basketball institutional mediocrity.  Reset your expectations. Rise above weak, petty arguments (low-hanging fruit) that are all too common here in HoyaTalk, and see the Big Picture that perceptive adults make every effort to appreciate.  That's where Ed and the Admin live - we gotta go there to better understand what's going on.  

The underlying insidious notion that Cooley is a con man who has found an easy mark in our university administration stinks of small-minded, unimaginative nonsense.  Remember, it takes two to tango -- in the world of getting conned, you have the con man, of course, but you also must have a mark willing to believe the con.  We bring in a man in his 50's, a record of successes in building programs, a couple years away from Nat'l Coach of the Year.  Both of us with a keen eye to the formidable challenge of resurrecting a once-great brand. Where exactly is the con?  University administrations like ours deal in multi-million dollar deals on a daily basis (donation solicitation, building projects, expansion, etc.) --  we may be guilty of overpaying out of eagerness, but we aren't oblivious dupes.  

I learn a lot about a coach by watching how their players carry themselves, how they get along with their teammates, how they demonstrate a sense of being part of a team through their play and attitude.  I'll know a little more when I see and sense how this group of student-athletes do these things.  That will tell me a lot about Ed and staff and if he is past his prime or lackluster.  Just as we wouldn't want anyone to define us solely by our worst moments or most visible failures, we can't do that to Ed and still think we are the insightful, smart armchair experts we like to think we are.  

[madgesiq92]

Jun 18, 2024 10:54:15 GMT -5 guru said:

I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised about the differing trajectories/excitement levels surrounding the Georgetown and Providence programs at the moment. In the end, we might have done them an enormous favor. We end up with a lackluster coach who had passed his prime, and they have an up-and-comer, even if he uses them as a steppingstone. Yet another brilliant move by the Georgetown administration. Karma is a b, I guess.

What trajectory does the Providence program have? They just missed the NCAA tournament with a Big East Player of the Year that was brought in by Cooley and have less talent on the roster than we do 1-10. If Hopkins doesn't come back to 100%, they will struggle. Also trying to understand how Dual is a great pick up for Seton Hall, if he's not a loss for English.

[madgesiq92]

Jun 19, 2024 13:38:05 GMT -5 bluegray79 said:

Jun 18, 2024 10:54:15 GMT -5 guru said:

I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised about the differing trajectories/excitement levels surrounding the Georgetown and Providence programs at the moment. In the end, we might have done them an enormous favor. We end up with a lackluster coach who had passed his prime, and they have an up-and-comer, even if he uses them as a steppingstone. Yet another brilliant move by the Georgetown administration. Karma is a b, I guess.

Unless we have hard, verifiable evidence about a coach, it's a fool's errand to take a bunch of seemingly true circumstantial "evidence" and make definitive statements about them.  "Lackluster", "past his prime"?  Based on what?  One losing season and some disappointments in the ensuing off season where we garner high recruiting and transfer class rankings?  Maybe things aren't happening as quickly as many would like, but we have to be big boys and girls and separate our disappointments from the bizarro reality of college sports and 10 years of Hoya men's basketball institutional mediocrity.  Reset your expectations. Rise above weak, petty arguments (low-hanging fruit) that are all too common here in HoyaTalk, and see the Big Picture that perceptive adults make every effort to appreciate.  That's where Ed and the Admin live - we gotta go there to better understand what's going on.  

The underlying insidious notion that Cooley is a con man who has found an easy mark in our university administration stinks of small-minded, unimaginative nonsense.  Remember, it takes two to tango -- in the world of getting conned, you have the con man, of course, but you also must have a mark willing to believe the con.  We bring in a man in his 50's, a record of successes in building programs, a couple years away from Nat'l Coach of the Year.  Both of us with a keen eye to the formidable challenge of resurrecting a once-great brand. Where exactly is the con?  University administrations like ours deal in multi-million deals on a daily basis (donation solicitation, building projects, expansion, etc.) --  we may be guilty of overpaying out of eagerness, but we aren't oblivious dupes.  

I learn a lot about a coach by watching how their players carry themselves, how they get along with their teammates, how they demonstrate a sense of being part of a team through their play and attitude.  I'll know a little more when I see and sense how this group of student-athletes do these things.  That will tell me a lot about Ed and staff and if he is past his prime or lackluster.  Just as we wouldn't want anyone to define us solely by our worst moments or most visible failures, we can't do that to Ed and still think we are the insightful, smart armchair experts we like to think we are.  

This 100%. If you're not following @kylewilliamsd2i on X, you should. And if you are following him and think nothing has changed about the program, I would advise you find something else to do other than follow this program.  The photos spending Father's Day with Mulready and Sorber tells a lot about the family atmosphere Cooley has built around the program following the Ewing debacle where players were fighting assistants in the locker room. This is an extremely talented young core, and there are going to be a lot of "told you so" moments in the future. This was a total rebuild and the foundation has been laid for a very bright future. 

[EtomicB]

Jun 19, 2024 14:05:19 GMT -5 madgesiq92 said:

Jun 18, 2024 10:54:15 GMT -5 guru said:

I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised about the differing trajectories/excitement levels surrounding the Georgetown and Providence programs at the moment. In the end, we might have done them an enormous favor. We end up with a lackluster coach who had passed his prime, and they have an up-and-comer, even if he uses them as a steppingstone. Yet another brilliant move by the Georgetown administration. Karma is a b, I guess.

What trajectory does the Providence program have? They just missed the NCAA tournament with a Big East Player of the Year that was brought in by Cooley and have less talent on the roster than we do 1-10. If Hopkins doesn't come back to 100%, they will struggle. Also trying to understand how Dual is a great pick up for Seton Hall, if he's not a loss for English.

They've already sold out of season tickets for 24-25, and retained their core players including Hopkins who a few here thought he'd transfer to Gtown.

They pulled a solid portal class, and landed a top 25 & a top 50 kid for the '25 recruiting class.

English & staff are off to a nice start, sure they missed the tourney after losing arguably their best player mid-season.

Dual didn't outplay Pierre last season and never got ahead of Floyd on the depth chart. Plus he doesn't shoot it well.

Dual is a great fit for the defensive-oriented Holloway

[hoyaboya]

Jun 19, 2024 15:49:26 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Jun 19, 2024 14:05:19 GMT -5 madgesiq92 said:

What trajectory does the Providence program have? They just missed the NCAA tournament with a Big East Player of the Year that was brought in by Cooley and have less talent on the roster than we do 1-10. If Hopkins doesn't come back to 100%, they will struggle. Also trying to understand how Dual is a great pick up for Seton Hall, if he's not a loss for English.

They've already sold out of season tickets for 24-25, and retained their core players including Hopkins who a few here thought he'd transfer to Gtown.

They pulled a solid portal class, and landed a top 25 & a top 50 kid for the '25 recruiting class.

English & staff are off to a nice start, sure they missed the tourney after losing arguably their best player mid-season.

Dual didn't outplay Pierre last season and never got ahead of Floyd on the depth chart. Plus he doesn't shoot it well.

Dual is a great fit for the defensive-oriented Holloway

English will also get credit for developing Devin Carter into a first round pick under his tutelage.

How many first round picks has Ed Cooley developed in his 13 years as a high major coach?

[hoyaboya]

Jun 19, 2024 13:38:05 GMT -5 bluegray79 said:

Jun 18, 2024 10:54:15 GMT -5 guru said:

I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised about the differing trajectories/excitement levels surrounding the Georgetown and Providence programs at the moment. In the end, we might have done them an enormous favor. We end up with a lackluster coach who had passed his prime, and they have an up-and-comer, even if he uses them as a steppingstone. Yet another brilliant move by the Georgetown administration. Karma is a b, I guess.

Unless we have hard, verifiable evidence about a coach, it's a fool's errand to take a bunch of seemingly true circumstantial "evidence" and make definitive statements about them.  "Lackluster", "past his prime"?  Based on what?  One losing season and some disappointments in the ensuing off season where we garner high recruiting and transfer class rankings?  Maybe things aren't happening as quickly as many would like, but we have to be big boys and girls and separate our disappointments from the bizarro reality of college sports and 10 years of Hoya men's basketball institutional mediocrity.  Reset your expectations. Rise above weak, petty arguments (low-hanging fruit) that are all too common here in HoyaTalk, and see the Big Picture that perceptive adults make every effort to appreciate.  That's where Ed and the Admin live - we gotta go there to better understand what's going on.  

The underlying insidious notion that Cooley is a con man who has found an easy mark in our university administration stinks of small-minded, unimaginative nonsense.  Remember, it takes two to tango -- in the world of getting conned, you have the con man, of course, but you also must have a mark willing to believe the con.  We bring in a man in his 50's, a record of successes in building programs, a couple years away from Nat'l Coach of the Year.  Both of us with a keen eye to the formidable challenge of resurrecting a once-great brand. Where exactly is the con?  University administrations like ours deal in multi-million deals on a daily basis (donation solicitation, building projects, expansion, etc.) --  we may be guilty of overpaying out of eagerness, but we aren't oblivious dupes.  

I learn a lot about a coach by watching how their players carry themselves, how they get along with their teammates, how they demonstrate a sense of being part of a team through their play and attitude.  I'll know a little more when I see and sense how this group of student-athletes do these things.  That will tell me a lot about Ed and staff and if he is past his prime or lackluster.  Just as we wouldn't want anyone to define us solely by our worst moments or most visible failures, we can't do that to Ed and still think we are the insightful, smart armchair experts we like to think we are.  

A quick aside on this "National Coach of the Year" point that people like to make about Cooley. Yes, he won the Naismith coach of the year award in 2022. However, winning a national coach of the year award one time does not exactly mean you're the greatest coach in the history of college basketball. Here are some other national coach of the year winners:

2022: Tommy Lloyd
2021: Juwan Howard
2020: Anthony Grant
2014: Gregg Marshall
2012: Frank Haith
2011: Mike Brey
2008: Keno Davis
2005: Bruce Weber
2001: Rod Barnes
1998: Bill Guthridge

Guys have one good year all the time. That doesn't make them John Wooden.

[EtomicB]

Jun 19, 2024 14:12:48 GMT -5 madgesiq92 said:

Jun 19, 2024 13:38:05 GMT -5 bluegray79 said:

Unless we have hard, verifiable evidence about a coach, it's a fool's errand to take a bunch of seemingly true circumstantial "evidence" and make definitive statements about them.  "Lackluster", "past his prime"?  Based on what?  One losing season and some disappointments in the ensuing off season where we garner high recruiting and transfer class rankings?  Maybe things aren't happening as quickly as many would like, but we have to be big boys and girls and separate our disappointments from the bizarro reality of college sports and 10 years of Hoya men's basketball institutional mediocrity.  Reset your expectations. Rise above weak, petty arguments (low-hanging fruit) that are all too common here in HoyaTalk, and see the Big Picture that perceptive adults make every effort to appreciate.  That's where Ed and the Admin live - we gotta go there to better understand what's going on.  

The underlying insidious notion that Cooley is a con man who has found an easy mark in our university administration stinks of small-minded, unimaginative nonsense.  Remember, it takes two to tango -- in the world of getting conned, you have the con man, of course, but you also must have a mark willing to believe the con.  We bring in a man in his 50's, a record of successes in building programs, a couple years away from Nat'l Coach of the Year.  Both of us with a keen eye to the formidable challenge of resurrecting a once-great brand. Where exactly is the con?  University administrations like ours deal in multi-million deals on a daily basis (donation solicitation, building projects, expansion, etc.) --  we may be guilty of overpaying out of eagerness, but we aren't oblivious dupes.  

I learn a lot about a coach by watching how their players carry themselves, how they get along with their teammates, how they demonstrate a sense of being part of a team through their play and attitude.  I'll know a little more when I see and sense how this group of student-athletes do these things.  That will tell me a lot about Ed and staff and if he is past his prime or lackluster.  Just as we wouldn't want anyone to define us solely by our worst moments or most visible failures, we can't do that to Ed and still think we are the insightful, smart armchair experts we like to think we are.  

This 100%. If you're not following @kylewilliamsd2i on X, you should. And if you are following him and think nothing has changed about the program, I would advise you find something else to do other than follow this program.  The photos spending Father's Day with Mulready and Sorber tells a lot about the family atmosphere Cooley has built around the program following the Ewing debacle where players were fighting assistants in the locker room. This is an extremely talented young core, and there are going to be a lot of "told you so" moments in the future. This was a total rebuild and the foundation has been laid for a very bright future. 

Why should any Gtown fan have to follow Williams to feel good about the team?

This highlights how much things have stayed the same with the program if we're being honest.

[hoyazeke]

Jun 19, 2024 16:18:23 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Jun 19, 2024 15:49:26 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

They've already sold out of season tickets for 24-25, and retained their core players including Hopkins who a few here thought he'd transfer to Gtown.

They pulled a solid portal class, and landed a top 25 & a top 50 kid for the '25 recruiting class.

English & staff are off to a nice start, sure they missed the tourney after losing arguably their best player mid-season.

Dual didn't outplay Pierre last season and never got ahead of Floyd on the depth chart. Plus he doesn't shoot it well.

Dual is a great fit for the defensive-oriented Holloway

English will also get credit for developing Devin Carter into a first round pick under his tutelage.

How many first round picks has Ed Cooley developed in his 13 years as a high major coach?

Anyone that watched Carter from his freshman year could see that he had NBA potential..and GTown fans saw 1st hand his freshman year that he was going to be really good....his trajectory has been rising each year and I don't see how English gets credit just because he was there in the end.

[EtomicB]

Jun 19, 2024 18:05:36 GMT -5 hoyazeke said:

Jun 19, 2024 16:18:23 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

English will also get credit for developing Devin Carter into a first round pick under his tutelage.

How many first round picks has Ed Cooley developed in his 13 years as a high major coach?

Anyone that watched Carter from his freshman year could see that he had NBA potential..and GTown fans saw 1st hand his freshman year that he was going to be really good....his trajectory has been rising each year and I don't see how English gets credit just because he was there in the end.

In this clip, Carter credits English with helping him learn how to play off two feet which he said took his game to another level...

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jun 17, 2024 10:49:02 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Jun 17, 2024 9:15:49 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Hopefully, Cooley will give us a State of the Union interview soon
At this point, we need to hear about what the program has instead of dwelling on what it doesn't have.

It's becoming less likely, and for once you can't blame a Bill Shapland or a Ronny Thompson for the lack of engagement here.

There are a lot of headwinds facing this program, some of its own doing, others not, that Georgetown does not want amplified in front of traditional or social media. The claim that Georgetown would have ample NIL money this spring is an example of how this can backfire.

Watching a winning coach at a high major level arrive and literally do no better than his less capable predecessor caused a lot of head scratching among those in the media who were ready and willing to tell the college basketball world that Georgetown was back. Now, we get awkward quotes like "Burks will have the freedom to make mistakes and not have a crew of 5-stars waiting to take him out. The former 3-star joins a Hoyas team looking to find any sort of talent" is not a message that rings with recruits or writers.

Georgetown ended the Big East 10th and or now is likely penciled in as... 10th. Kyle Neptune is on a hot seat of sorts but retaining Dixon and adding Poplar and Shulga helped their cause, the same for Seton Hall with Addae-Wusu returning and Dual arriving. (Villanova even signed a European player averaging 15 ppg to what appears to be a non-scholarship role.) The Hoyas are, of course, still looking.

Georgetown must excel in 2024-25 with three freshman and the hope that Mack does not struggle in the climb from Ivy League to Big East competition, and I'm not sure a state of the program address is where GU wants to be right now if a strong message isn't there.

Do you seriously think Ed Cooley cannot find an interviewer who is friendly and who can do a good interview? If there is anything that is obvious from following sports media, most of them are cowards when it comes to asking questions. And I do not fully blame them because if they ask tough questions, their access is often threatened (and not just at the collegiate level), and then they lose any opportunity to get stories.

Once Kenner starts and the guys are practicing (not sure what NCAA limitations are on that these days), there should be plenty to talk about. Tough question on not landing a center? Cooley can own it: "You know, I did want to bring in a center. The market was really crazy this summer with NIL really exploding to levels unimaginable just a year ago. But we have really amazing young guys. We have Thomas Sorber one of the best incoming freshman centers. He will really benefit from playing time. And Drew Fielder, who has been in the weight room working his butt off, and you'll see the difference when he is on the court in November."

Asked about NIL, "We are fortunate enough to have started Hoyas Rising last year, and I am so thankful to the supporters of the program that have made such a difference. There's no doubt that we simply are not in the place like some other programs that have almost unlimited resources, but it's something we are working on."

Asked about the bad defense, "Things were tough last year, I'll admit and own that. I tried a lot of different things, and it did not work. But we are going to have a much different makeup this year. Drew Fielder played good defense last year, and will be even better this year. And watch out for Thomas Sorber, a lot of people are going to be surprised when they see the impact he makes. He's a freshman, and with freshman, you always never know, but I am optimistic that he is going to turn a lot of heads."

He can also use questions to brag about Mack, Peavey, developing Epps, McKenna, etc. There is plenty to talk about. I know a lot of people here are Cooley skeptics or worse, but the guy can give an interview. If I can write those answers above in 5 minutes, Cooley can probably easily do better than that off the cuff. Now, why he's not doing it? No idea.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jun 19, 2024 16:18:23 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Jun 19, 2024 15:49:26 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

They've already sold out of season tickets for 24-25, and retained their core players including Hopkins who a few here thought he'd transfer to Gtown.

They pulled a solid portal class, and landed a top 25 & a top 50 kid for the '25 recruiting class.

English & staff are off to a nice start, sure they missed the tourney after losing arguably their best player mid-season.

Dual didn't outplay Pierre last season and never got ahead of Floyd on the depth chart. Plus he doesn't shoot it well.

Dual is a great fit for the defensive-oriented Holloway

English will also get credit for developing Devin Carter into a first round pick under his tutelage.

How many first round picks has Ed Cooley developed in his 13 years as a high major coach?

It is absolutely hilarious that you applaud English for the player Cooley brought to Providence (and the first coach at Providence under which Carter saw much improvement), without even mentioning that Cooley was responsible for Carter being at Providence in the first place. No Cooley, likely no Carter for English to inherit.

[hoyaboya]

[bluegray79]

Jun 19, 2024 16:31:21 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Jun 19, 2024 13:38:05 GMT -5 bluegray79 said:

Unless we have hard, verifiable evidence about a coach, it's a fool's errand to take a bunch of seemingly true circumstantial "evidence" and make definitive statements about them.  "Lackluster", "past his prime"?  Based on what?  One losing season and some disappointments in the ensuing off season where we garner high recruiting and transfer class rankings?  Maybe things aren't happening as quickly as many would like, but we have to be big boys and girls and separate our disappointments from the bizarro reality of college sports and 10 years of Hoya men's basketball institutional mediocrity.  Reset your expectations. Rise above weak, petty arguments (low-hanging fruit) that are all too common here in HoyaTalk, and see the Big Picture that perceptive adults make every effort to appreciate.  That's where Ed and the Admin live - we gotta go there to better understand what's going on.  

The underlying insidious notion that Cooley is a con man who has found an easy mark in our university administration stinks of small-minded, unimaginative nonsense.  Remember, it takes two to tango -- in the world of getting conned, you have the con man, of course, but you also must have a mark willing to believe the con.  We bring in a man in his 50's, a record of successes in building programs, a couple years away from Nat'l Coach of the Year.  Both of us with a keen eye to the formidable challenge of resurrecting a once-great brand. Where exactly is the con?  University administrations like ours deal in multi-million deals on a daily basis (donation solicitation, building projects, expansion, etc.) --  we may be guilty of overpaying out of eagerness, but we aren't oblivious dupes.  

I learn a lot about a coach by watching how their players carry themselves, how they get along with their teammates, how they demonstrate a sense of being part of a team through their play and attitude.  I'll know a little more when I see and sense how this group of student-athletes do these things.  That will tell me a lot about Ed and staff and if he is past his prime or lackluster.  Just as we wouldn't want anyone to define us solely by our worst moments or most visible failures, we can't do that to Ed and still think we are the insightful, smart armchair experts we like to think we are.  

A quick aside on this "National Coach of the Year" point that people like to make about Cooley. Yes, he won the Naismith coach of the year award in 2022. However, winning a national coach of the year award one time does not exactly mean you're the greatest coach in the history of college basketball. Here are some other national coach of the year winners:

2022: Tommy Lloyd
2021: Juwan Howard
2020: Anthony Grant
2014: Gregg Marshall
2012: Frank Haith
2011: Mike Brey
2008: Keno Davis
2005: Bruce Weber
2001: Rod Barnes
1998: Bill Guthridge

Guys have one good year all the time. That doesn't make them John Wooden.

No one said greatest coach in the history of college basketball.  If you take issue with a point, make the retort compelling and relevant.  The point was not that the Naismith from 2022 makes him the best now or of all time but that he was recognized very recently to have excelled above all others.  Add to that his history of successful rebuilds and acknowledged strong recruiting this year and you have the foundation of an argument that EC has the coaching chops to turn this program around.  People like to cite his winning the Naismith because it is a very significant accomplishment by which the college basketball world recognizes excellence.  You can downplay it or degrade it if you want, but the fact remains that he won it.  He rebuilt underperforming programs at Fairfield and  Providence.  And he pulled together a pretty solid and strong core of athletes in only his second year, recruiting, many would say, from a disadvantaged position given our last decade of irrelevance.  He hasn't been perfect and there have been disappointments, but I find it disingenuous to ignore real creds and to harp on shortcomings just to bust on the guy because the rebuild is taking shape more slowly than people want.  It's pretty nuts - the guy has had one year, and some fans are throwing in the towel on him.  Critique and call things for what they are, both good and bad.  Then the back and forth here in Hoya Talk will be something worth being a part of.

[bluegray79]

some great photos of yesterday's practice

georgetown.rivals.com/news/summer-practice-shots-7-17-24

[guru]

Jun 19, 2024 13:38:05 GMT -5 bluegray79 said:

Jun 18, 2024 10:54:15 GMT -5 guru said:

I guess we shouldn’t be all that surprised about the differing trajectories/excitement levels surrounding the Georgetown and Providence programs at the moment. In the end, we might have done them an enormous favor. We end up with a lackluster coach who had passed his prime, and they have an up-and-comer, even if he uses them as a steppingstone. Yet another brilliant move by the Georgetown administration. Karma is a b, I guess.

Unless we have hard, verifiable evidence about a coach, it's a fool's errand to take a bunch of seemingly true circumstantial "evidence" and make definitive statements about them.  "Lackluster", "past his prime"?  Based on what?  One losing season and some disappointments in the ensuing off season where we garner high recruiting and transfer class rankings?  Maybe things aren't happening as quickly as many would like, but we have to be big boys and girls and separate our disappointments from the bizarro reality of college sports and 10 years of Hoya men's basketball institutional mediocrity.  Reset your expectations. Rise above weak, petty arguments (low-hanging fruit) that are all too common here in HoyaTalk, and see the Big Picture that perceptive adults make every effort to appreciate.  That's where Ed and the Admin live - we gotta go there to better understand what's going on.  

The underlying insidious notion that Cooley is a con man who has found an easy mark in our university administration stinks of small-minded, unimaginative nonsense.  Remember, it takes two to tango -- in the world of getting conned, you have the con man, of course, but you also must have a mark willing to believe the con.  We bring in a man in his 50's, a record of successes in building programs, a couple years away from Nat'l Coach of the Year.  Both of us with a keen eye to the formidable challenge of resurrecting a once-great brand. Where exactly is the con?  University administrations like ours deal in multi-million dollar deals on a daily basis (donation solicitation, building projects, expansion, etc.) --  we may be guilty of overpaying out of eagerness, but we aren't oblivious dupes.  

I learn a lot about a coach by watching how their players carry themselves, how they get along with their teammates, how they demonstrate a sense of being part of a team through their play and attitude.  I'll know a little more when I see and sense how this group of student-athletes do these things.  That will tell me a lot about Ed and staff and if he is past his prime or lackluster.  Just as we wouldn't want anyone to define us solely by our worst moments or most visible failures, we can't do that to Ed and still think we are the insightful, smart armchair experts we like to think we are.  

What in the world is this response? I didn’t call Cooley a con man. Very strange. And of course the GU administration is more to blame for this if things continue on their current trajectory and this doesn’t end up working out.

I guess you object to my using the term lackluster, but i think it’s an apt description of Cooley’s first 16 months here. To be honest, I never considered Cooley anything more than an average coach when he was at Providence, so I admit to being perplexed at the effort GU made to poach him. But I’m not sure where you found the con man thread to pull with such force.