The current state of our Hoya basketball program

[SSHoya]

Aug 6, 2024 13:54:50 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Aug 6, 2024 13:27:58 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Where's hoyaboya?

I presume he got a better NIL offer from some other fan forum.

😀

[hoyaatheart55]

Aug 6, 2024 10:14:37 GMT -5 nanman88 said:

So where will this team rank in the Big East next year?

At this point I’m setting my expectations pretty low considering how the last couple years have gone. I would predict somewhere from 8th to 10th in the conference. This roster definitely has some potential though.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 6, 2024 11:57:37 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

I'm curious to see the responses of the people who were constantly screaming that Cooley was failing in this offseason becuase of not having a Plan B or lack of size. There was also a lot of criticism of not plumbing the international market.

We're very young, but we've had a massive talent upgrade that is also very much more in the Cooley mode in terms of athleticism. Oh, it's a pretty big and long team, which is also a big positive for our biggest weakness: defense.

Still some key weaknesses and a lot of work to go, but I am struggling to see where the roster is not a significant upgrade to last year. And I'm also struggling to see why the people who want to retain and develop players seem to think that's not the point of this roster. Clearly, that's the plan.

I agree. I would add that when it was obvious that we missed out on our big targets, I suggested that given the circumstances, I would have taken Cook back. While we have roster room, I think his return would have stunted some growth, and it would have also meant that at least while he was playing that we had a bad defensive center playing. Even if Cook would likely be better on offense than Halaifonua, I would take Halaifonua over Cook any day if it means we don't need to play Cook's defense. And I liked Cook a lot and he really gave it his all last year--I just think his defensive weaknesses would have been hard to overcome.

Bottom line: our roster is definitely stronger than last year's. How much stronger is the big question, and we won't know the answer to that until at least November.

[SSHoya]

If we eake out 6-8 Conference victories, it would in my opinion, be satisfactory improvement.

[FrazierFanatic]

If we get 7-8 wins, play strong defense, see the young talent develop from November to March I will consider that a promising start.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 7, 2024 16:18:14 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

If we eake out 6-8 Conference victories, it would in my opinion, be satisfactory improvement.

I realize this is quibbling at the margins but a bit weaker Big East, and the fact that we likely lost a few games we could have won last year even without lack of talent, I'd really like to see 7-8 minimum, with significantly improved defense.

Part of this is the makeup of those wins, too. For example, let's say DePaul and one other team are bad. If we get 4 wins against those two teams, and 2 more wins, I would not be terribly happy with it. But, if we got 7 wins, and in the process beat Connecticut, Creighton, or Marquette once or twice, that would be very different. I really think this squad has a wide range of outcomes. On the higher end, I do think 10-10 or slightly better is not out of the question, though unlikely. Similarly, it wouldn't shock me if we only won 5 games, though that, too, I think is unlikely. I think our number of wins will most likely be in the 6-9 category.

I think we will know pretty early what type of team we have, though we are so young that improvement later in the season is definitely possible (and perhaps even likely). Unfortunately, we do not have a great out of conference schedule, but we have enough like Syracuse that will hopefully show us if we have a real shot at making any waves.

[jwp91]

I am not sure how many conference wins I desire - 7-10 maybe....but what I really want is to play competitive basketball consistently. I don't want to be blown off the court at home more times than not. If we are playing competitive basketball, the win total matters less to me right now.

[sportsastroguy]

not gonna happen with these guys outside of the odd "not showing up to play" moments all teams seem to have once or twice.

[pahoya21]

Aug 7, 2024 16:15:15 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Aug 6, 2024 11:57:37 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

I'm curious to see the responses of the people who were constantly screaming that Cooley was failing in this offseason becuase of not having a Plan B or lack of size. There was also a lot of criticism of not plumbing the international market.

We're very young, but we've had a massive talent upgrade that is also very much more in the Cooley mode in terms of athleticism. Oh, it's a pretty big and long team, which is also a big positive for our biggest weakness: defense.

Still some key weaknesses and a lot of work to go, but I am struggling to see where the roster is not a significant upgrade to last year. And I'm also struggling to see why the people who want to retain and develop players seem to think that's not the point of this roster. Clearly, that's the plan.

I agree. I would add that when it was obvious that we missed out on our big targets, I suggested that given the circumstances, I would have taken Cook back. While we have roster room, I think his return would have stunted some growth, and it would have also meant that at least while he was playing that we had a bad defensive center playing. Even if Cook would likely be better on offense than Halaifonua, I would take Halaifonua over Cook any day if it means we don't need to play Cook's defense. And I liked Cook a lot and he really gave it his all last year--I just think his defensive weaknesses would have been hard to overcome.

Bottom line: our roster is definitely stronger than last year's. How much stronger is the big question, and we won't know the answer to that until at least November.

Looks like Halaifonua can shoot the rock. I didn't see how Cook would be better offensively.

[EtomicB]

Aug 7, 2024 16:15:15 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Aug 6, 2024 11:57:37 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

I'm curious to see the responses of the people who were constantly screaming that Cooley was failing in this offseason becuase of not having a Plan B or lack of size. There was also a lot of criticism of not plumbing the international market.

We're very young, but we've had a massive talent upgrade that is also very much more in the Cooley mode in terms of athleticism. Oh, it's a pretty big and long team, which is also a big positive for our biggest weakness: defense.

Still some key weaknesses and a lot of work to go, but I am struggling to see where the roster is not a significant upgrade to last year. And I'm also struggling to see why the people who want to retain and develop players seem to think that's not the point of this roster. Clearly, that's the plan.

I agree. I would add that when it was obvious that we missed out on our big targets, I suggested that given the circumstances, I would have taken Cook back. While we have roster room, I think his return would have stunted some growth, and it would have also meant that at least while he was playing that we had a bad defensive center playing. Even if Cook would likely be better on offense than Halaifonua, I would take Halaifonua over Cook any day if it means we don't need to play Cook's defense. And I liked Cook a lot and he really gave it his all last year--I just think his defensive weaknesses would have been hard to overcome.

Bottom line: our roster is definitely stronger than last year's. How much stronger is the big question, and we won't know the answer to that until at least November.

It would be nice to have the coach give us his opinion on the roster he’s put together, how practice has gone over the summer ect..

[blueandgray]

So this is the feeling amount insiders.

(1). We are bigger, stronger and substantially more athletic than we were a year ago.
(2). The team has a more competitive nature….you see it in practice.
(3). We arguable got the top point guard in the portal. We arguably got the top perimeter defender in the portal, and we kept the BE leading scorer who will likely benefit more than anyone bu having a true pg on the roster.
(4). We are young, but Sorber is a stud. Julius is young but will allow us to do things we’re weren’t able to to do a year ago.

There is a lot more…but that’s the gist of it. While we may not be at the level of the top 3 or 4 teams….we should be in the mix with the next group of teams. This will be a conference that should get 5 -6 teams in the tourney.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 7, 2024 20:37:25 GMT -5 pahoya21 said:

Aug 7, 2024 16:15:15 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

I agree. I would add that when it was obvious that we missed out on our big targets, I suggested that given the circumstances, I would have taken Cook back. While we have roster room, I think his return would have stunted some growth, and it would have also meant that at least while he was playing that we had a bad defensive center playing. Even if Cook would likely be better on offense than Halaifonua, I would take Halaifonua over Cook any day if it means we don't need to play Cook's defense. And I liked Cook a lot and he really gave it his all last year--I just think his defensive weaknesses would have been hard to overcome.

Bottom line: our roster is definitely stronger than last year's. How much stronger is the big question, and we won't know the answer to that until at least November.

Looks like Halaifonua can shoot the rock. I didn't see how Cook would be better offensively.

This could be so. We really do not know how Halaifonua will translate to Big East basketball, though there are positive indications. He's still going to be a freshman though and will likely need to adjust. Cook was a pretty strong player on offense. While his shooting game was limitd, he was very efficient around the basket. And he was an excellent offensive rebounder (his offensive bounding rate was top 10 in the country).

But, Halaifonua will likely be better than Cook on the defensive end from Day 1. He may also be a better passer than Cook too. As I said, I am glad to have Halaifonua in the fold, and if given the choice between Halaifonua and a fifth year Cook, I'd pick Halaifonua every time, as his ceiling is way higher. And if he stays, I think he'll turn out to be a much better player overall than Cook, too.

[SFHoya99]

Aug 8, 2024 10:54:02 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Cook was a pretty strong player on offense.

Cook was a good offensive rebounder. He grabbed 16% of offensive rebounds.

Including FTs, he made or went to the line in about 190 times in the season. He grabbed 123 offensive boards. Of course, not every offensive board went back up or in, but that's still a huge percentage of his shots coming from offensive boards, and that was a big reason for his 58% FG percentage. Unfortunately, because his FT shooting was poor, his eFG and TS% weren't any better. His overall shooting efficiency wasn't any better than say, Donald Carey.

Cook had two moves -- offensive putbacks and a seal off. I guess three -- we'd run a pick and roll a couple of times a game and he'd sometimes convert.

It's not to say that the offensive rebounding and putbacks aren't valuable -- they are incredibly valuable because they are basically free points. The fact that we were above average in O rebounding rate (and midtable in conference) was due to Cook's muscle.

So we'll miss that.

But he had no real low post moves. He couldn't shoot free throws or jumpers. He had no face up game. He was not a good passer. His turnover rate was below average for a guy who never tried anything offensively. He wasn't a great screener and his elevation and height on the pnr was a weakness.

On our team, with no bigs and no real offensive rebounding and no one else that could do those things aside from Fielder ... that was an asset. But he was not a good offensive player. His stats look very nice because we put him in such a small role -- offensive rebound -- that we never asked him to stretch. Instead, we just put that all on Epps to make up for the lack of a low post game, etc.

Fielder, in limited minutes, was far more efficient overall -- even in conference -- and the team played better defense with him in the game over Cook as well. This was even with Drew having an offensive rebounding rate less than half of Supreme's.

Now, maybe Sorber / Fielder and Halaifonua will not be strong enough to battle like Cook did, and despite their superior height, they won't grab as many offensive boards. Or perhaps their vast superior skill advantage on offense won't be quite good enough, and we'll be stuck with putting more possessions in but getting subpar production due to missed shots and turnovers -- Cook's limited skills might have been a blessing because it gave clarity on not trying anything.

But they are all better offensive players in terms of skillset. Better shooters. Better passers. Better face up. More post moves. It's going to be a strength and experience issue. Watch Julius run the pick n roll and think about how that'll happen with Mack and Epps. Or players cutting past Sorber. Or having Fielder's face up game as an option as opposed to just camping for O rebounds.

Cooley's just going to need to manage development versus production and youthful mistakes. In some games, we're going to need to limit their role if things aren't working.

[SFHoya99]

Aug 7, 2024 23:28:23 GMT -5 blueandgray said:

So this is the feeling amount insiders.

(1). We are bigger, stronger and substantially more athletic than we were a year ago.
(2). The team has a more competitive nature….you see it in practice.
(3). We arguable got the top point guard in the portal. We arguably got the top perimeter defender in the portal, and we kept the BE leading scorer who will likely benefit more than anyone bu having a true pg on the roster.
(4). We are young, but Sorber is a stud. Julius is young but will allow us to do things we’re weren’t able to to do a year ago.

There is a lot more…but that’s the gist of it. While we may not be at the level of the top 3 or 4 teams….we should be in the mix with the next group of teams. This will be a conference that should get 5 -6 teams in the tourney.

I'll be looking for two things over the course of the season:

• Defensive intensity
• Decision making

The former is self-explanatory. Defense will make or break the year. Effort based failure like last year's transition D are simply crushing.

On decision making ... we have a lot more potential weapons this next year, but with two dribble drive guys and a bunch of young players with skills but who lack experience, so much of the offense will turn on not trading off offensive possessions but rather identifying mismatches and weaknesses game to game and moment to moment. How well do we ride a hot hand? How willing is a cold player to focus on defense and distribution? If someone has a mismatch, do we keep going back there until the defense adjusts?

I want to see us a pick and roll like six times in a row. I want to see a freshman struggling with his post up pass to the open threes.

Other things will control how good we are -- like our relative lack of outside shooting. But at this point, these are much more controllable.

[EtomicB]

Aug 8, 2024 11:22:43 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Aug 7, 2024 23:28:23 GMT -5 blueandgray said:

So this is the feeling amount insiders.

(1). We are bigger, stronger and substantially more athletic than we were a year ago.
(2). The team has a more competitive nature….you see it in practice.
(3). We arguable got the top point guard in the portal. We arguably got the top perimeter defender in the portal, and we kept the BE leading scorer who will likely benefit more than anyone bu having a true pg on the roster.
(4). We are young, but Sorber is a stud. Julius is young but will allow us to do things we’re weren’t able to to do a year ago.

There is a lot more…but that’s the gist of it. While we may not be at the level of the top 3 or 4 teams….we should be in the mix with the next group of teams. This will be a conference that should get 5 -6 teams in the tourney.

I'll be looking for two things over the course of the season:

• Defensive intensity
• Decision making

The former is self-explanatory. Defense will make or break the year. Effort based failure like last year's transition D are simply crushing.

On decision making ... we have a lot more potential weapons this next year, but with two dribble drive guys and a bunch of young players with skills but who lack experience, so much of the offense will turn on not trading off offensive possessions but rather identifying mismatches and weaknesses game to game and moment to moment. How well do we ride a hot hand? How willing is a cold player to focus on defense and distribution? If someone has a mismatch, do we keep going back there until the defense adjusts?

I want to see us a pick and roll like six times in a row. I want to see a freshman struggling with his post up pass to the open threes.

Other things will control how good we are -- like our relative lack of outside shooting. But at this point, these are much more controllable.

I agree on the defensive and effort points but not so much on the offensive points.

Running a lot of PnR can cause stagnation for the players not involved in the play which we saw a lot last year. I’d much rather see a much more motion based offense that can create switches which could lead to favorable mismatches.

I doubt any of the young bigs will ever get double teamed especially if they’re struggling in the post.

Better fundamentals is another key for me, they were a terrible screening team last season, terrible in transition (both ways), blocking out ect..

[DanMcQ]

[Lethal_Interjection]

[Lethal_Interjection]

[DanMcQ]

[DanMcQ]