EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,410
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 6, 2024 7:30:07 GMT -5
That's not what I was saying at all, I mentioned CO to answer the "limited budget" reasoning folks were using to justify why players left last season. My point was/is if you're in the hunt for a player who was reportedly offered 2 million dollars then you don't really have a limited budget. Seton Hall has a limited budget, reports were their top offer to Richmond was 500K(Fanta tweeted that). Butler too has a limited budget, that's why they lost their backcourt to Dayton & Washington. Gtown isn't in the same category as these two peers, neither of whom would have tried to get into the CO sweepstakes. I don't think our offer to CO was $2M, but that's neither here nor there. I'm not using 'limited' to describe our budget relative to most of the Big East. When I use limited here, what I mean is that there's a finite amount. Every dollar spent is a dollar not spent elsewhere. And I think there's a pretty good chance we're having to overpay a decent amount given recent history -- I bet Styles went to NC State for probably less than he asked us for; winning and heading home likely factored in. We may have been saving a million plus for a big, and that's money we couldn't spend on Styles. And that 100% makes sense given the information at the time. A big was a higher priority.
We don't need to be Seton Hall to be running up close to our budget. I think this is all stuff that we have no real idea. The only big on the market this spring that Gtown chased that was in the 7 figure range was CO, neither Stewart, Awaka, Dainja, or any other big were anywhere near that type of money. I wouldn't have gambled losing a productive player on the minimal chance of landing CO, there were plenty of solid bigs that would have fit better than Cook but still allowed for Styles to have been retained. |
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Aug 6, 2024 8:11:09 GMT -5
The single busiest news day in months, and you're prattling on about nonsense.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Aug 6, 2024 8:15:02 GMT -5
I am really thrilled with how the roster has filled out...2 must needed late additions...
To nitpick for a moment...
Would have liked for one more "true" PG on the team. Someone that would play around 10 minutes a night.
I know Epps is capable but much rather him off ball.
Maybe it's Mulready, love his game but probably more of a combo. At least from what I have seen.
I know it's hard to convince a strong player to come in and play 10 minutes but would have liked someone like Bacote but just a level up from him and what he brought.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,604
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 6, 2024 8:41:44 GMT -5
The single busiest news day in months, and you're prattling on about nonsense. That’s what the fanbase does. I wince at the thought of recruits coming across any Hoya message board. |
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,403
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 6, 2024 8:47:04 GMT -5
I am really thrilled with how the roster has filled out...2 must needed late additions... To nitpick for a moment... Would have liked for one more "true" PG on the team. Someone that would play around 10 minutes a night. I know Epps is capable but much rather him off ball. Maybe it's Mulready, love his game but probably more of a combo. At least from what I have seen. I know it's hard to convince a strong player to come in and play 10 minutes but would have liked someone like Bacote but just a level up from him and what he brought. Sounds like you we will see Mack, Epps, and Peavy at PG. I thought maybe Mulready, but this is observable chatter from the program. |
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,604
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 6, 2024 8:49:43 GMT -5
n/a
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Aug 6, 2024 8:51:36 GMT -5
I am really thrilled with how the roster has filled out...2 must needed late additions... To nitpick for a moment... Would have liked for one more "true" PG on the team. Someone that would play around 10 minutes a night. I know Epps is capable but much rather him off ball. Maybe it's Mulready, love his game but probably more of a combo. At least from what I have seen. I know it's hard to convince a strong player to come in and play 10 minutes but would have liked someone like Bacote but just a level up from him and what he brought. Yeah - I'd like another emergency PG too. I think Epps as 2nd PG is the price you pay for keeping him on the team. I'm sure he & his camp want to make sure pro teams know he can play there. Maybe that looks better when he's only part-time, w/ better options around him - we'll see. All other current options aren't really options at all. Just b/c Mulready, Peavy, or "point forwards" can initiate an offensive set from time to time doesn't mean they're equipped to handle PG duties for 10, 15, or more mpg. Realistically - if Mack or Epps gets hurt, the other is gonna go for 38 or more minutes. But if you can add somebody at this stage who wouldn't be a total mess out there... that'd be great. (I'd also be totally cool with a very one-dimensional 3pt shooter...) |
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bills
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by bills on Aug 6, 2024 9:05:23 GMT -5
Caleb Williams played some very good Point Forward on a good high school team. It could bean interesting change to have him replace Mack for a few minutes and force the defense to play totally different against a 6’ 7” player at the Point. Epps could bring the ball up against pressure and give it to Williams at the top of the key.
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Post by nanman88 on Aug 6, 2024 10:14:37 GMT -5
So where will this team rank in the Big East next year?
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,410
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 6, 2024 10:15:25 GMT -5
The single busiest news day in months, and you're prattling on about nonsense. Do you really believe a discussion about how the staff handles the roster is nonsense? |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Aug 6, 2024 10:37:35 GMT -5
The single busiest news day in months, and you're prattling on about nonsense. Do you really believe a discussion about how the staff handles the roster is nonsense? The issue is not nonsense. Going back and forth and back and forth ad nauseum is massive overkill. Especially since the only thing we really know is that Styles ended up at NC State, close to home. Everything else is assumption and speculation. We do not know how much he may have wanted for his NIL next year. We don't know how much we offered. Maybe we offered more than NC State, but it wasn't a big enough gap to overcome a Final Four team close to home. Maybe we were willing to "overpay" in relation to what we valued him at, but still not as much as we wanted. Doesn't mean Cooley does not value retention and development. The NIL factor in retention, recruitment, roster building, etc. is still relatively new, and evolves almost month to month. Schools will make wrong decisions, players will make wrong decisions, NIL sources will make wrong decisions - sometimes decisions that look right when made, but look misguided or even disastrous just a few weeks later. I know it is off-season for HoyaTalk, but the Styles thing has been beaten to death. |
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78HOYA78
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 431
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Post by 78HOYA78 on Aug 6, 2024 10:56:05 GMT -5
Speaking for myself - rightly or wrongly, the introduction of NIL money and the unpredictable transfer rules have changed the landscape of college sports. As one actor has said "We are living in interesting times."
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,403
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 6, 2024 10:59:28 GMT -5
There has been a lot of anxiety and hand wringing (myself included) about our situation with bigs for the last 4 months.
At one point, we second guessed the strategy and thought maybe the staff should have lowered their standard and recruited a veteran low ceiling center as a stop gap.
Well, it is early August, and EC has added two high ceiling bigs to provide depth. We will certainly be young, and no doubt that will bite us at some point, but Diouf was pointed out to us by a NBA scout because he saw NBA potential. It is not hard to see Hanaikouna having NBA potential. Sorber projects to a 1st rounder. I don’t know where Fielder sits, but a 40% 3 point shooter who is 6’10” probably has a home too.
So as we bicker about the ‘state of the program,’, I think EC desires some kudos for having a steady hand on the wheel and acquiring the talent he needs to work with on paper.
We will definitely be young, but this is the most talent we have had for a while.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,992
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 6, 2024 11:57:37 GMT -5
I'm curious to see the responses of the people who were constantly screaming that Cooley was failing in this offseason becuase of not having a Plan B or lack of size. There was also a lot of criticism of not plumbing the international market.
We're very young, but we've had a massive talent upgrade that is also very much more in the Cooley mode in terms of athleticism. Oh, it's a pretty big and long team, which is also a big positive for our biggest weakness: defense.
Still some key weaknesses and a lot of work to go, but I am struggling to see where the roster is not a significant upgrade to last year. And I'm also struggling to see why the people who want to retain and develop players seem to think that's not the point of this roster. Clearly, that's the plan.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,410
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 6, 2024 12:08:34 GMT -5
Do you really believe a discussion about how the staff handles the roster is nonsense? The issue is not nonsense. Going back and forth and back and forth ad nauseum is massive overkill. Especially since the only thing we really know is that Styles ended up at NC State, close to home. Everything else is assumption and speculation. We do not know how much he may have wanted for his NIL next year. We don't know how much we offered. Maybe we offered more than NC State, but it wasn't a big enough gap to overcome a Final Four team close to home. Maybe we were willing to "overpay" in relation to what we valued him at, but still not as much as we wanted. Doesn't mean Cooley does not value retention and development. The NIL factor in retention, recruitment, roster building, etc. is still relatively new, and evolves almost month to month. Schools will make wrong decisions, players will make wrong decisions, NIL sources will make wrong decisions - sometimes decisions that look right when made, but look misguided or even disastrous just a few weeks later. I know it is off-season for HoyaTalk, but the Styles thing has been beaten to death. I hear you Frazier, I'm just tired of basically starting over every year. Styles wasn't the main point of the discussion but retaining & recruiting were, I'm a fan of the current roster, and I believe it has a lot of potential if given a chance to grow. If we're excited about the roster potential now, we should still be excited next April regardless of how the season turns out record wise. |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 6, 2024 12:22:16 GMT -5
If we're excited about the roster potential now, we should still be excited next April regardless of how the season turns out record wise. We will be. But also -- the guy you are focusing on is a senior. In terms of player retention, the guys we kept were a sophomore and a freshman. The guys who left were a rising senior, three guys who were seniors last year, and a rising RS sophomore whose departure, by all indications, had something else going on. We retained the two players on the team with the most potential. The only player with more than a year of eligibility remaining that left was Brumbaugh. We will likely have some attrition next year. Between NIL realities and the reality that everyone isn't going to be happy with PT, we're going to lose people. And yes, there's probably, at some point, going to be a situation where someone asks for too much, or a highly paid player isn't delivering, where rough choices are going to be made. But unless a total debacle happens, we're not going to hold over just two guys next year. I just don't see how it is that hard to see that last year's team lacked talent, potential, and that many of them were done with eligibility or close to it. I mean, really: Cook -- Do you think he's developing in his last year? He took a few steps forward but what's the upside there? Massoud - Done. Heath - Done. Bristol - Grad transfer. Mutombo - Grad transfer, I think. Brumbaugh - Other considerations. I don't know how we can take a team of Massoud, Heath, Cook and apply that to a Top 10 freshman class and think "there's nothing different between these two groups that would change Cooley's decision making." |
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wolveribe
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by wolveribe on Aug 6, 2024 12:56:23 GMT -5
Lets be honest the only 2 players that could be argued that could compete on a semi decent big east team are Brumbaugh and Styles. With Peavy and Mack, do either one of those guys want to come back?
Either way, this roster is young and will take some lumps, but its an exciting group of talented players.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Aug 6, 2024 13:07:07 GMT -5
The issue is not nonsense. Going back and forth and back and forth ad nauseum is massive overkill. Especially since the only thing we really know is that Styles ended up at NC State, close to home. Everything else is assumption and speculation. We do not know how much he may have wanted for his NIL next year. We don't know how much we offered. Maybe we offered more than NC State, but it wasn't a big enough gap to overcome a Final Four team close to home. Maybe we were willing to "overpay" in relation to what we valued him at, but still not as much as we wanted. Doesn't mean Cooley does not value retention and development. The NIL factor in retention, recruitment, roster building, etc. is still relatively new, and evolves almost month to month. Schools will make wrong decisions, players will make wrong decisions, NIL sources will make wrong decisions - sometimes decisions that look right when made, but look misguided or even disastrous just a few weeks later. I know it is off-season for HoyaTalk, but the Styles thing has been beaten to death. I hear you Frazier, I'm just tired of basically starting over every year. Styles wasn't the main point of the discussion but retaining & recruiting were, I'm a fan of the current roster, and I believe it has a lot of potential if given a chance to grow. If we're excited about the roster potential now, we should still be excited next April regardless of how the season turns out record wise. I get you, Etomic. I am hopeful that this collection of young talent will have Cooley focusing on development and retention. I'm not naive enough to think we can hold every one of them in place, but would love to see a healthy majority moving ahead next season and the season after at the very least. |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,479
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 6, 2024 13:27:58 GMT -5
I'm curious to see the responses of the people who were constantly screaming that Cooley was failing in this offseason becuase of not having a Plan B or lack of size. There was also a lot of criticism of not plumbing the international market. We're very young, but we've had a massive talent upgrade that is also very much more in the Cooley mode in terms of athleticism. Oh, it's a pretty big and long team, which is also a big positive for our biggest weakness: defense. Still some key weaknesses and a lot of work to go, but I am struggling to see where the roster is not a significant upgrade to last year. And I'm also struggling to see why the people who want to retain and develop players seem to think that's not the point of this roster. Clearly, that's the plan. Where's hoyaboya? |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Aug 6, 2024 13:54:50 GMT -5
I'm curious to see the responses of the people who were constantly screaming that Cooley was failing in this offseason becuase of not having a Plan B or lack of size. There was also a lot of criticism of not plumbing the international market. We're very young, but we've had a massive talent upgrade that is also very much more in the Cooley mode in terms of athleticism. Oh, it's a pretty big and long team, which is also a big positive for our biggest weakness: defense. Still some key weaknesses and a lot of work to go, but I am struggling to see where the roster is not a significant upgrade to last year. And I'm also struggling to see why the people who want to retain and develop players seem to think that's not the point of this roster. Clearly, that's the plan. Where's hoyaboya? I presume he got a better NIL offer from some other fan forum. |
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