Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Feb 18, 2016 1:49:28 GMT -5
I agree with everything Dan said above. I think the loss of Paul White all season has hurt this team tremendously, not just tonight. Also Isaac Copeland has looked lost and indecisive on offense since his torrid start of the season. IMO the offense has become very easy to defend because of 2 things. No PG on the roster that can turn the corner off a pick and put pressure on the defense. Because they can't turn the corner coming off a 1/5 pick and roll they end up either going side to side or backwards ending with a deep heave from the perimeter at the end of the shot clock. The defense has its issues which is either it is extremely poor because of a combination of lack of effort or ability at the top (DSR and Tre). DSR has many many break down moments where either he is in the wrong place and he struggles mightily to get over the top of the screen which JT3 requires of his guards. Let's face it DSR has never been praised for his defense. He really isn't a fit to do all the things that JT3 wants his guards to do defensively and with Tre on the floor with him, you can't hide them both. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, Tre Campbell can't guard at all. He can't guard in space, against the pick in roll, he is rarely where he suppose to be in helpside and then when he does try to be in defensive help position, he comes over to much, leaving an easy passing opportunity back to his man for wide open shot or complete breakdown of the defense. What really complicates the backcourt issues (DSR & Tre) is when they play together you get very little defense and then your playing 4/5 on offense as Tre has regressed so much offensively with his jump shot. He was never strong at attacking the basket but now it's pretty embarrassing. You can actually see him ducking out of the way as he releases the ball on layup attempts in traffic. He did the same thing as a freshman but you imagine through experience and maturity he would have improved since last year. Nothing in his game has improved. Everything in his game has regressed. It has gotten to the point where Tre looks like he is playing above his head. He looks like the kid on the sideline you ask to play with you in a pick up game just so you have 10 players and can go 5 on 5. It has gotten to the point where he is just eating up minutes because we don't have another guard on the roster who we can give those minutes to. Tre is never in foul trouble because he never close enough on defense to pick up fouls. Outside of the Xavier game, he has done nothing all year. He has scored 3 points total in the last 8 games. 3 POINTS TOTAL IN 8 GAMES FROM YOUR STARTING POINT GUARD. His inability to put any defensive pressure in getting to the basket and finishing and his milk carton jump shot bogs down the entire offense making it harder for everybody else to get open looks. JT3 and the staff missed on Tre and it maybe time for the staff to admit it to themselves much like they admitted that Cameron can't play big minutes because of his deficiency. Paul White's going to solve all that? I can't read that far but I'm doubting it. No, I went on diatribe about DSR and Campbell playing together on the floor and how it kills us. No one said Paul White was going to fix all this team's issues but he would have helped. He would improve the offense because he has excellent court vision and a strong handle and perimeter skills. He's extremely versatile and you can play him at multiple positions, so maybe you don't have to play DSR and Campbell together in the backcourt so often on the floor together. Not saying we are a top 25 team if he's healthy all year but his skill set does address several of this teams limitations and having him would have helped.
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by vv83 on Feb 18, 2016 2:32:47 GMT -5
SHU's last field goal was Whitehead's 3 to give them a 15 point lead with 14:15 left in the game. And we never got closer than 6 points after that. So Editeding sad watching this team. Wow. didn't see game, but why did Isaac only attempt one shot over the last 30 minutes of the game? Sanogo completely dominated Copeland defensively. He got right up on him every time he touched the ball, and Copeland could not get off even one or two dribbles to create any room to operate. Sanogo is a real good defender, but it was depressing to see Ike just completely taken out of the game in this way.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Feb 18, 2016 5:54:25 GMT -5
since he exploded for 21 pts against Xavier, tre has scored 13 pts on 4-28 shooting (2-17 from 3)the last 8 games (153 minutes). he also has 19 fouls in those 8 games. that's right, more fouls than points the last 8 games.
this teams success this year depended on the soph class taking the next step and III basically said that during the preseason. that obviously has not happened. is that III's fault or the players? or both?
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Feb 18, 2016 6:33:40 GMT -5
since he exploded for 21 pts against Xavier, tre has scored 13 pts on 4-28 shooting (2-17 from 3)the last 8 games (153 minutes). he also has 19 fouls in those 8 games. that's right, more fouls than points the last 8 games. this teams success this year depended on the soph class taking the next step and III basically said that during the preseason. that obviously has not happened. is that III's fault or the players? or both? I think it's an impossible question to objectively answer without being inside the player's and coaches minds and the locker room but historically rarely is it just exclusively one or the other. Chemistry, heart, mental preparedness, all tough to measure but I think this year all part of the problem flowing from both coach and players.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Feb 18, 2016 6:54:38 GMT -5
Who are "they?" We aren't a good team this year. Who has been saying we are? Not wanting to fire the coach because of that reality doesn't mean I don't want the program to be better. You are saying that now as others saw it a long time ago and were called trolls and whatever creative names you have. We all want program to be better but some of us can see the reality of what we are while others bury their heads and look no further than a current game. Take a look at the big picture, it's hard to do at first but eye opening once you do it. From what I see players are getting exposed as in they have deficiencies which have not gotten better as the season has continued. I find it hard to believe that these deficiencies are showing during the game and not in practice. Too often players are blamed which is true an extent is true, as for myself I hold the people who are getting paid to make the players better to a higher standard.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 18, 2016 7:00:27 GMT -5
Being a high NCAA seed is not "the" goal (for me), but it is one of the goals. It is indicative of a very good overall season and generally means that I enjoyed watching a number of entertaining games. Barnes didn't have a season as good as our 2013 or 2015 in any of his final six or seven seasons, so I don't think the trend line sounds familiar. Barnes won 28 games and was a 4 seed in his 5th from last year. I agree that the trend doesn't sound familiar, primarily because he actually made the tournament in the year he was fired and the year before that, and in fact every year of his entire tenure except 1. Actually doing something in the tournament counts at some schools. You're right; forgot about that year, bu my point remains the same. In six of his final seven seasons, they made the Tournament after a regular season that was not as good as the one we had in two of the last four years. I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference. Doing something in the Tournament counts at all schools, so does qualifying for it, and so does having a high quality regular season.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 18, 2016 7:01:36 GMT -5
Being a high NCAA seed is not "the" goal (for me), but it is one of the goals. It is indicative of a very good overall season and generally means that I enjoyed watching a number of entertaining games. Barnes didn't have a season as good as our 2013 or 2015 in any of his final six or seven seasons, so I don't think the trend line sounds familiar. This continual decline has been your goal? I appreciate you trying to defend this but even for you it's getting difficult. nope. Not my goal. But also not a reason to make a move at this stage. That's all.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Feb 18, 2016 7:12:29 GMT -5
In a word unwatchable. Next year will be a decade since we made the second weekend. This is a long slow slide to irrelevance.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 18, 2016 7:26:59 GMT -5
In a word unwatchable. Next year will be a decade since we made the second weekend. This is a long slow slide to irrelevance. Wow, painful clarity. Program is now unacceptably unhealthy. That's not real debatable. Only question is what steps, if any, will be taken to address it. New assistants? Change in recruiting philosophy - think this season looks a little different with Melo, Hart and Bentil in our starting 5? Corresponding change in strategy to accommodate the foul-fest that is now college hoops? We have nothing even resembling a point guard in a college game predicated on drive-and-kick bball. Regime change? Any or all would be steps in right direction IMO.
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Post by trillesthoya on Feb 18, 2016 8:59:04 GMT -5
In a word unwatchable. Next year will be a decade since we made the second weekend. This is a long slow slide to irrelevance. Wow, painful clarity. Program is now unacceptably unhealthy. That's not real debatable. Only question is what steps, if any, will be taken to address it. New assistants? Change in recruiting philosophy - think this season looks a little different with Melo, Hart and Bentil in our starting 5? Corresponding change in strategy to accommodate the foul-fest that is now college hoops? We have nothing even resembling a point guard in a college game predicated on drive-and-kick bball. Regime change? Any or all would be steps in right direction IMO. Are we positive melo/hart/bentil would have developed to be as talented as they are at Georgetown?
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,436
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Post by prhoya on Feb 18, 2016 9:09:02 GMT -5
The writing was on the wall since last Saturday. It's to the point where the staff really has to ask do they want recruits coming to games and having front row seats to watch this dumpster fire of a season go down in flames. You're so right, unless the staff sees it as an opportunity to show the recruits that there is ample pt available if you have balls, you like to take it to the hoop and/or make wide open baskets, and don't like to get beat on defense.
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gunny
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Post by gunny on Feb 18, 2016 9:13:03 GMT -5
When we were down 6 to 10 points last night, why was Johnson in the game instead of Marcus? I just do not see anything with Johnson. I think he exemplifies what is wrong with the team. Below average on offense, very raw on defense, hustles to make plays, but eventually his talent level is just not there.
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wnyhoya
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Post by wnyhoya on Feb 18, 2016 9:55:29 GMT -5
Some have commented that almost every player on this team is flat out poor in the fundamentals of basketball, and I absolutely agree. Do you think III and the staff know this? I mean they're basketball coaches so they should realize this, but after watching this team play the whole season I'm just not sure what we do in practice. I fear that this problem goes unaddressed in the offseason and we come out next year making the same maddening mistakes and turnovers bc of a lack of fundamentals. I hope I'm wrong
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Feb 18, 2016 10:12:00 GMT -5
Some have commented that almost every player on this team is flat out poor in the fundamentals of basketball, and I absolutely agree. Do you think III and the staff know this? I mean they're basketball coaches so they should realize this, but after watching this team play the whole season I'm just not sure what we do in practice. I fear that this problem goes unaddressed in the offseason and we come out next year making the same maddening mistakes and turnovers bc of a lack of fundamentals. I hope I'm wrong This is a very good question. First, how long is practice? How much time is given to practicing the Princeton principles, the sharp cutting, the sharp passing, then the hedge defense/switching defense. Teaching our offensive and defensive schemes to an inexperienced group must take a lot of time out of what is available for practice. From Bilas, we know that we don't practice fast breaks. Is that by design because there is no time to teach something that should come naturally and coach needs that time allocated to teaching the sharp passing and structure of the offense which takes a lot of time to perfect? Again, our offense is not suited for inexperinced players, and of our three upperclassmen, only one is really a four-year player. Inexperience plus our offense and defense schemes are a recipe for disaster. If only we could simplify both ends and just teach these kids to not foul, esp. keep your hands and arms vertically, to properly rebound and box'out, to dribble and pass, to go thru some penetration drills, and a lot, A LOT of perimeter shooting practice. Really, how many times were the Princeton principles applied effectively last night? Willard and SH took it away and kudos to him. Was that practice time worth it?
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 18, 2016 10:21:16 GMT -5
On the plus side of the game, free Jettie's for the forty ticketholders in attendance.
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Post by dogfromduckhunt on Feb 18, 2016 11:33:48 GMT -5
Barnes won 28 games and was a 4 seed in his 5th from last year. I agree that the trend doesn't sound familiar, primarily because he actually made the tournament in the year he was fired and the year before that, and in fact every year of his entire tenure except 1. Actually doing something in the tournament counts at some schools. You're right; forgot about that year, bu my point remains the same. In six of his final seven seasons, they made the Tournament after a regular season that was not as good as the one we had in two of the last four years. I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference. Doing something in the Tournament counts at all schools, so does qualifying for it, and so does having a high quality regular season. Honest question, but what would you need to see to change your mind? What's your breaking point? Would missing the Tournament again next year do it?
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Feb 18, 2016 11:35:15 GMT -5
Wow, painful clarity. Program is now unacceptably unhealthy. That's not real debatable. Only question is what steps, if any, will be taken to address it. New assistants? Change in recruiting philosophy - think this season looks a little different with Melo, Hart and Bentil in our starting 5? Corresponding change in strategy to accommodate the foul-fest that is now college hoops? We have nothing even resembling a point guard in a college game predicated on drive-and-kick bball. Regime change? Any or all would be steps in right direction IMO. Are we positive melo/hart/bentil would have developed to be as talented as they are at Georgetown? After seeing players like DSR, Ike, Peak, Govan and Derrickson struggle at different points and even regress at times...Melo, Hart, Bentil may have made the best decisions for their NBA futures.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 18, 2016 12:19:53 GMT -5
Are we positive melo/hart/bentil would have developed to be as talented as they are at Georgetown? After seeing players like DSR, Ike, Peak, Govan and Derrickson struggle at different points and even regress at times...Melo, Hart, Bentil may have made the best decisions for their NBA futures. Those might be the saddest and most damning statements of all. That many of us basically don't think our coaching staff is capable of maximizing our talent. Is there any more obvious indicator that you need a regime change?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 18, 2016 12:25:17 GMT -5
You're right; forgot about that year, bu my point remains the same. In six of his final seven seasons, they made the Tournament after a regular season that was not as good as the one we had in two of the last four years. I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference. Doing something in the Tournament counts at all schools, so does qualifying for it, and so does having a high quality regular season. Honest question, but what would you need to see to change your mind? What's your breaking point? Would missing the Tournament again next year do it? Yes, at least I think so. Three out of four misses would likely do it for me. It wouldn't be quite as simple as that. I'd need to assess the roster, the recruits, etc. But my most basic expectation and requirement is to regularly make the tournament.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 18, 2016 12:31:49 GMT -5
After seeing players like DSR, Ike, Peak, Govan and Derrickson struggle at different points and even regress at times...Melo, Hart, Bentil may have made the best decisions for their NBA futures. Those might be the saddest and most damning statements of all. That many of us basically don't think our coaching staff is capable of maximizing our talent. Is there any more obvious indicator that you need a regime change? Jeepers, there's plenty to complain about without exaggerating. DSR seems to have completely maximized his talent. He wasn't getting quicker or faster going somewhere else. Peak has improved a ton while here. Within the season he has improved a ton. There's no reason to think he does or should regret his decision. Marcus and Govan? I mean, it's hard to conclude they have or haven't improved or won't over time. Jesse sure had a big night last night (though he struggled in areas). Of your list, it's really just Ike you can point to. Thats significant but certainly not an indictment.
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