calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 12, 2010 22:33:38 GMT -5
prhoya, understand your sentiment. Let's just say that I have become skeptical after the last few years when the team starts to wear down in the second half of the season and we have not given the bench enough time to be able to contribute. The problem with a tough OOC schedule is that you have to either play to win or play to develop. There are not that many patsies on the Hoya's OOC schedule to say that the team is waiting for easier games to play the bench.
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Nov 12, 2010 22:44:21 GMT -5
For what it's worth, JTIII said in the pregame that Lubick and Starks were feeling sick, and he wasn't sure if Starks would be able to go at all.
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by alleninxis on Nov 12, 2010 22:51:03 GMT -5
Benimon was under the weather as well.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 12, 2010 22:58:30 GMT -5
We need a better health plan for these guys!
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Nov 13, 2010 0:33:42 GMT -5
Taking everything into account, a great job tonight. I saw something positive from just about every player out there even though the stats don't bear it out. Wright and Freeman played excellent defensively too, which was a real pleasant surprise. Also loved Austin being very vocal and showing leadership that way. One thing that bugs me is that last possession of the first half - coach and Wright are better than that. Live and learn.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 13, 2010 1:20:10 GMT -5
I went to the game specifically to see if Julian could now step up and to watch Vee for 10 minutes. Neither happened . Nate had great court presence and looked like he deserved all of Henry's minutes that he took.
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jester
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Post by jester on Nov 13, 2010 2:18:59 GMT -5
Nate took one shot and it was a 3pter. Let's hope he gets a chance to find his offense too!
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Nov 13, 2010 4:19:10 GMT -5
Wow. To be honest, I did not see us pulling that out. Chris's catch-3pter in the corner was the dealbreaker for the game. Gotta love the way that our backcourt came alive in the 2nd half. We attacked their zone so much better in the 2nd half too. Instead of just chucking the ball around the perimeter, we got the ball into Julian and got the defense out of position. Like to see we can come alive like that.
As for the standard "Chris needs to do better in traffic" stuff, let's look at it. He had 2 failed transition opportunities. One was a broken play where I thought our spacing wasn't good at all, and he drew a charge. The other was on him. His two drives into the defense early in the 2nd half weren't converted, but they're still good drives. I thought he drew contact, and even if not, someone's gotta test the defense like that. Sometimes they're out of control, but on the balance they're positive and it's not like you can say, ok Chris only drive when you're going to be successful. He's gotta try it 3-4 times to get 2-3 successful conversions.
Nate can board. He will contribute this year even if he does nothing more than that. He'll have to, because Hollis CANNOT defend the 4. That kid is a tailor made 3, and will be a great one. He doesn't need to be shoehorned into the 4. He needs to be kept at the 3 and put in a position to succeed.
Julian had a tough game. As did Hollis. Hopefully they'll turn it around against Tulane. Disappointed to see Vee get no run, but I think a lot of that had to do with us playing such a big opponent. Had Moses been eligible, I'm sure we would have seen him out there.
Couple of random strategery observations. Liked and disliked our press. Seemed to get some ragged play but they also broke it with ease at times. I think this is something to use selectively, and not against good guards (e.g. Nova). Liked that Chris tried to push the ball off made baskets. There's no reason not to try and beat a zone down the floor when you have the guards we have.
All in all just a very good gritty win against a strong opponent. Will be a quality win come selection Sunday.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Nov 13, 2010 7:07:39 GMT -5
This is our team.
This is how we are going to win games.
Austin will lead the way, with Clark and Wright chipping in right behind them. They will carry the scoring load.
Vaughn, Thompson and Nate are our big men.
Nate won't give you a whole bunch of points, but he'll at least be an active body inside. Benimon will play that same role too. Thompson is definitely not a 4, but it looks like he is our starter there.
I think Starks will be worked in slowly but surely as the season progresses.
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GPHoya
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Post by GPHoya on Nov 13, 2010 7:14:43 GMT -5
My viewing was through a very balky jumbotron feed so take it for what it is worth.
I agree that Hollis can not play the 4, but he can't get many minutes at the 3 either with Jason Clark in front of him. I thought Clark was our best player. In every competitive game, I think we will want 110 minutes from Wright, Freeman and Clark. That has implications for Vee and Markel's minutes as well as Thompson's and Bowen.
Lubick was fine for a first game freshman, but whether he can score at all is an unresolved question. Benimon may be a better rebounder and has an ability to cash in garbage points. Lubick is a more creative passer, but forced some things as you would expect. If Thompson is playing the 4, he has to score to offset his shortcomings as a rebounder and defender. He will be a good three next year.
Julian will have better games, but will also have foul-plagued games. Henry is Henry.
Long season and lots will change, but a great game to pull out and a confidence builder for the big three as new leaders.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Nov 13, 2010 8:01:40 GMT -5
Julian has to work on finishing in traffic. He gets great position inside, but he'll miss layups or easy dunks. Or he'll put the ball on the floor and get it taken away. Hopefully that will come with time.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Nov 13, 2010 8:08:18 GMT -5
>Chris's catch-3pter in the corner was the dealbreaker for the game.
No kidding. Second was the outlet to someone (Jason to Chris? Chris to Jason?) streaking down the court ahead of the ODU defense.
I haven't looked at the box yet but we must have had very few assists, and ODU must have had a ton of blocks.
I loved what I saw from Nate. If he were an inch or two taller he would be dominant defensively. He has very good instincts and is more athletic than most expect from a big white guy (I know, I know). Julian has proven himself to be a very good complementary player but it may be asking more than he can give for him to be THE big man. Scares me a bit for the BE season. Not that we have an alternative.
Austin was just terrible in the first half, very good in the last 10 minutes; but our best player has to make those clutch free throws. Jason and Nate were our most consistent players.
ODU didn't play very well offensively, which helped us a lot.
I was surprised not to see Vee.
I wouldn't be critical of the fans who thought the game was lost. The team gave them every reason to think that and very little reason to think otherwise until the last several minutes.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Nov 13, 2010 8:30:57 GMT -5
Things I didn't like:
- Julian and Hollis' offensive games, not just the cheap misses but also dumb mistakes like putting the ball on the floor after the entry pass
- Offense in general for the first 35 minutes, its one thing for our shooters to have an off night, its another thing for the other players not really looking to score to make the D respect them.
- Getting too upset about the refs, there were some questionable calls but nothing too outrageous and it looked like our guys were going to lose their cool over it
Things I liked:
- Jason's mvp performance. IIRC he was also the key player in our almost comeback against ODU last year so there must be something about the Monarchs that brings out the best in him
- Chris and Austin taking control down the stretch, there are no questions of leadership on this team
- Renewed commitment to defense, yes some of it was ODU missing (like those ugly allyoop attempts) but for the most part we made them earn their 59 points. And for all of the flaws that still need to be worked out, this was the best use of a press by a JTIII Hoya team that I've ever seen. Also for as bad a night Thompson and Vaughn had on offense they hustled and gave it their all on D (Hollis must have forced at least 3 jump balls with just pure effort).
- Nate's debut, I really didn't think going into last night that he would be ready to take on the role that he did. All he really needs now is the confidence to look to score. I think he'll be a starter sooner rather than later. Also Markel didn't do much but played mistake free which is good for his first NCAA game.
- Henry looking competent. For as much as people like to post "we can't count on Hank to be any kind of positive," well tonight I'd argue he played pretty good in his limited run. He doesn't need to be an all american performer just yet, but he is showing improvement
- Winning, we get to stay in the top 25 and this game will be a nice component for our Tourney resume. Plus on a personal level I do view the ODU series as a rivalry of sorts (the 06 McDonough game was the first Hoya loss I ever experienced) so beating them did really feel good.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Nov 13, 2010 9:09:13 GMT -5
Things I didn't like: - Julian and Hollis' offensive games, not just the cheap misses but also dumb mistakes like putting the ball on the floor after the entry pass - Offense in general for the first 35 minutes, its one thing for our shooters to have an off night, its another thing for the other players not really looking to score to make the D respect them. - Getting too upset about the refs, there were some questionable calls but nothing too outrageous and it looked like our guys were going to lose their cool over it Things I liked: - Jason's mvp performance. IIRC he was also the key player in our almost comeback against ODU last year so there must be something about the Monarchs that brings out the best in him - Chris and Austin taking control down the stretch, there are no questions of leadership on this team - Renewed commitment to defense, yes some of it was ODU missing (like those ugly allyoop attempts) but for the most part we made them earn their 59 points. And for all of the flaws that still need to be worked out, this was the best use of a press by a JTIII Hoya team that I've ever seen. Also for as bad a night Thompson and Vaughn had on offense they hustled and gave it their all on D (Hollis must have forced at least 3 jump balls with just pure effort). - Nate's debut, I really didn't think going into last night that he would be ready to take on the role that he did. All he really needs now is the confidence to look to score. I think he'll be a starter sooner rather than later. Also Markel didn't do much but played mistake free which is good for his first NCAA game. - Henry looking competent. For as much as people like to post "we can't count on Hank to be any kind of positive," well tonight I'd argue he played pretty good in his limited run. He doesn't need to be an all american performer just yet, but he is showing improvement - Winning, we get to stay in the top 25 and this game will be a nice component for our Tourney resume. Plus on a personal level I do view the ODU series as a rivalry of sorts (the 06 McDonough game was the first Hoya loss I ever experienced) so beating them did really feel good. This nails it on all cylinders for me. I want to emphasize that after watching the game on SNY this morning, I was impressed by Henry's limited minutes. I think he has earned himself a place in the rotation...still seems to be in the wrong places on occasion but he has good court vision and is a good defensive presence inside. Austin is really, really good. Please get him the ball in all possible situations. He is so tough taking it hard to the hole given his strength and quickness. It astounds me that people thought this game was going to be anything other than an ugly slugfest. I thought we had a chance to win going away, but I knew it wasn't going to be pretty. We just broke one of the longest home-winning streaks in the country. Also, does everyone remember the TEMPLE game last year? That abomination? Yeah. Well, keep perspective people. We looked like we were executing pretty well by the time we hit MSG in March (Ohio notwithstanding). Lastly, the intensity on defense was very encouraging. Sure they got some stuff, but Clark, Wright, Lubick even Hollis all looked to be scrapping and playing with a fervor. I liked what I saw and have high hopes for this team!
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Nov 13, 2010 9:17:15 GMT -5
Just watched the game this morning on the CT 6am re broadcast. Honestly for the first game of the season on the road in a hostle envoirnment we held our composure and didnt crack.
Pretty much all the posters here have hit the nail on the head with our positives and negatives. FOr me I really appreciated the full court press. They didnt trap out of it but I still liked the aggressive look. At the very least it took the time off the shot clock and didnt let ODU get comfortable.
As far as the big men, I was so impressed with Lubicks energy and court awareness. He is a player. He will gobble Sims' minutes quickly.
Overall solid start certainly can build off that performance. Our success depends on how Nate, and Julian and Jerelle develop. If they get Mean and rebound this can be a special year...
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 13, 2010 9:43:39 GMT -5
After sleeping on it, I was also impressed with the defensive intensity. ODU is one of the toughest rebounding teams they will face all year and at least they held their own. I am not counting on much from Moses this year, but what he can add that will be key is rebounding and interior intimidation later in the season.
I also agree completely with Austin Freeman's post-game tweet last night:
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damnhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by damnhoya on Nov 13, 2010 9:53:34 GMT -5
Glad we won that game (good win against a quality opponent). Here is my "constructive criticism" of the game with the caveat that this was our first game of the year:
1. Why is Austin taking his first shot at the 11:08 mark of the first half? Unacceptable for a player of his caliber. His first FG was at the about the 8:30 mark on a drive to the basket. Need more of that. (Notice his drive to the basket with 1:30 left to give us a 3 point lead).
2. TURNOVERS (same old story).
3. Free throw shooting (same old story). Luckily, ODU was even worse.
4. I found it funny that when Benimon checked into the game, he was playing the 3 (given the discussion on this board about whether he can play the 3).
5. Big men. Vaughn looked lost (and definitely not mean like lic has been saying all summer). He was making some freshman mistakes. In the past, we talked about Sims making costly mistakes on the court. If there is any improvement, it's that I don't remember Sims having any impact on the game (either good or bad; and I actually think Sims can have a positive impact for this team this year). LUBICK!! Very good first game as a Hoya. He looked nervous when he stepped on the floor but I like what he did.
6. Hollis got those two early fouls and never got going. Disappointing to see since I think Hollis' ceiling is VERY high. Then again, he shouldn't be playing the 4. Notice at the end of the game when we took the lead, Hollis was at the 3 with Lubick at the 4 and Vaughn at the 5.
7. Chris Wright!!! PG decision-making is still not there. For example, at the end of the first half, with less than a minute left, we had a 4 on 1 and Wright took it on his own (and was called for the offensive foul). Again, at the 15 minute mark of the second half, Hoyas had a 3 on 1 and Wright tripled pumped and got rejected. Speaking of which, how many times did he drive into traffic and get swatted? However, LOVED those back-to-back 3s at the end of the game.
8. Markel looked more than adequate in his limited minutes. Give him more minutes.
9. WHERE WAS VEE? (Thought we would see more of him this year).
10. How many layups did we miss?!!?
11. Clark was the MVP of the game for us. (DAGGER at the end of the game!).
12. Moses looking good in his suit (that 9-game suspension was ABSURD).
13. Thank you III for scheduling opponents like this. This team will be well tested this year.
14. Quick turnaround for Tulane. No let up.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Nov 13, 2010 9:55:43 GMT -5
A few people have mentioned Nate taking Henry's minutes - for this game at least, didn't seem like they were in competition. Sims only subbed in for Julian, and Nate only played the 4. That seems to make sense, as with Nate and Benimon or Thompson in, we would be very weak inside with no shot-blocking presence. Henry has a lot of problems, but he's tall and can block shots.
As for Hollis, he's in the same situation as Dajuan was - it's easier to score against 4s since they don't post-up, but neither can defend or rebound with 4s.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 13, 2010 10:12:31 GMT -5
First game of year--on the road, against a good team---take the win and get out of town!
Julian Vaughn is going to get unfairly criticized for not being a great player--he's NOT. Key for this year's team is for him to duplicate what he did last year in terms of numbers/production. For him to be successful, he needs to have another big on floor--small ball is worthless with Julian as only big--he's not talented enough to produce in that situation. The added weight is NOT good. He had more bounce/lift last year and why he'd add weight in a season where team is guard oriented is puzzling as well? If they can get 6-8 ppg and 6-8 rebounds-he'll be helping team. This was one of the worst Kenner Leagues in recent memory--so I don't much into his "performance" there this past Summer--he's just an average player-and needs to provide that and it'll be a nice contribution.
If you are going to play small--you can't afford to be shooting less then 50% from FT line. Obvious improvement needed there. Freeman should be a 90% FT shooter and him shooting 50% is hopefully opening game jitters.
Jason Clark was outstanding.
Moses is going to be needed this year--and can help--by providing rebounding/defense and ability to run the floor. These guys need to get up/down more.
Found a way to win--and that is important. Ditch the small ball lineup--Hollis is awful at the PF spot and the worst thing was--each guy in the starting lineup has been in program at least 2 1/2 years, so why did the offense look like complete garbage in 1st Half? Same old problem with guards not going inside/out--you still have to move ball in/out to get player/ball movement to get better looks--when you just throw it around the horn--it's an easy team to defend and get bad shots--which sometimes is bad when the team makes those shots--because they get into a stagnant mode where ball sticks and then they throw it around the horn and you get 19 pt halves.
What concerns me--last year's team slept walk in lot of 1st Half performances and got into a deep hole but rallied to comeback--that will not happen this year--because you dont' have any reliable frontcourt scoring--and Monroe was a sneaky good defensive player in terms of getting steals/hedging and good hands down low to knock ball loose/get loose balls/start breaks. Vaughn's got shaky hands, so Lubick's got to play with him to help make Julian/team better imo. Hollis is a SF/SG--not a PF. Benimon, Sims either need to step it up or hopefully Moses is capable of contributing (again I think he's a good fit for this group and presence alone will help) because this frontcourt is very limited in terms of ability to score. We all know perimeter teams are going to have off nights--and that is what scares me about future games--if they aren't hitting--it could get ugly in a hurry and those who seem to be "happy" Greg Monroe is gone (national writers/analysts) will see how valuable he was to this group.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 13, 2010 10:24:10 GMT -5
7. Chris Wright!!! PG decision-making is still not there. For example, at the end of the first half, with less than a minute left, we had a 4 on 1 and Wright took it on his own (and was called for the offensive foul). Again, at the 15 minute mark of the second half, Hoyas had a 3 on 1 and Wright tripled pumped and got rejected. Speaking of which, how many times did he drive into traffic and get swatted? However, LOVED those back-to-back 3s at the end of the game.
Agree DamnHoya-and it's just something that a SR who has professional aspirations has to change. It's just bad basketball and dumb basketball. We've heard about the CP3 camp, etc....and all that stuff is meaningless when it comes to how you play. You either have the mentality to lead, get your teammates involved, or you see this year as an opportunity to get your "name" out there--and scoring might do that--for people who don't know anything. No NBA team wants a 5'11 guard with a 1 to 4 assist to TO ratio--with awful decision making that often doesn't end up in a turnover--but is as good as being one. Having depth--his ass needs to see the bench for a talking to when he butchers a fastbreak and takes a shot with 3 teammates to pass the ball to--and it's also his job as a captain/leader to make sure they run a break properly--spacing, filling lanes, etc......he's a Senior now--not a FR--so this needs to be addressed now--and not with the assumption it'll be corrected because he's a "veteran".
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