vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
|
Post by vcjack on Jan 25, 2009 20:47:49 GMT -5
What struck me the most about being in the arena is how little excitement there was in the crowd. This is both a criticism of seton hall fans an. A recognition of the terrible basketball that was playe. Even if we had squeaked out a win I wouldn't be feeling good either
|
|
hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,430
|
Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 25, 2009 20:55:28 GMT -5
What struck me the most about being in the arena is how little excitement there was in the crowd. This is both a criticism of seton hall fans an. A recognition of the terrible basketball that was playe. Even if we had squeaked out a win I wouldn't be feeling good either Someone else mentioned it, but nice job by the GU students today. The Seton Hall crowd was beyond pathetic. I was right next GU students and they were consistently loud, even when things were going poorly.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
Member is Online
|
Post by NCHoya on Jan 25, 2009 21:31:08 GMT -5
NC, if you think we lost this game because of a lack of ability, I don't think I can disagree more. We lost to a team that shot 0-13 from 3 against our 2-3 zone. It is RIDICULOUSLY hard to pull that off. But we did. Because AGAIN, we were slow on defense. We didn't fight through picks. We gave up run out after run out (and several times, SHU didn't even capitalize on them). And we committed dumb fouls because we were lazy. None of that can be mistaken for effort. Sorry for the mis-placed word rockaway. Ability was not the word I meant, I was going for confusion. Or the "ability" to recognize certain situations and react. I do not doubt the talent-level I doubt that everyone knows what they should be doing. That is why where some see an open shot and immediately jump to lack of effort, I assume lack of communication and recognition. Our players are young and ton is being thrown at them, they simply look lost mentally. That may lead to what some see as effort, I say it is just being out of place and thinking instead of doing. JT3 needs to simplify the message.
|
|
|
Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 25, 2009 21:43:30 GMT -5
NC, if you think we lost this game because of a lack of ability, I don't think I can disagree more. We lost to a team that shot 0-13 from 3 against our 2-3 zone. It is RIDICULOUSLY hard to pull that off. But we did. Because AGAIN, we were slow on defense. We didn't fight through picks. We gave up run out after run out (and several times, SHU didn't even capitalize on them). And we committed dumb fouls because we were lazy. None of that can be mistaken for effort. Sorry for the mis-placed word rockaway. Ability was not the word I meant, I was going for confusion. Or the "ability" to recognize certain situations and react. I do not doubt the talent-level I doubt that everyone knows what they should be doing. That is why where some see an open shot and immediately jump to lack of effort, I assume lack of communication and recognition. Our players are young and ton is being thrown at them, they simply look lost mentally. That may lead to what some see as effort, I say it is just being out of place and thinking instead of doing. JT3 needs to simplify the message. Right. I agree with you totally here. My only question is, why do they look lost now after looking like they may have gotten it just a few weeks earlier against the likes of UConn and Syracuse? For the teams of the past few years, it seemed like they needed some time for things to click, and once they did, it was smooth sailing from there. For this team, it seems like they played without that confusion or lack of communication/recognition, and have now regressed to the point where those things have become an issue. And against weaker competition than when more/all things were clicking. Very odd.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
Member is Online
|
Post by NCHoya on Jan 25, 2009 21:45:06 GMT -5
I saw better effort today than WVU. The team is simply not a Top 25 caliber team. They fed our high expectations and now we are seeing reality. It sucks, but it was not completely unexpected. I am greatly lowering my expectations, what I see is a young team that is simply not ready for this level of play. You guys may see a lack of effort, I see a lack of ability. This is the biggest load of nonsense ever. This team has rolled THREE ranked teams. They "fed our high expectations" by beating multiple talented tournament-bound teams? Well how nice of them! You beat Memphis by accident. You beat Memphia and 'Cuse because you're good at home. You beat Memphis, 'Cuse, and UConn on the road because you're a good team. They weren't feeding anything. Everything was clicking and they were working together and having fun. But this team had adversity with Greg's T at Cameron, WVU punching them in the mouth, and today going on the road it hit bottom. They are not mentally tough. And I don't care if they come out and go 11-19 from three against Cincy and Marquette and win both. We know they can do that because ability is all they have. It's everything else they lack. First, as I explained in my last post, "ability" was the wrong word, I meant confusion and the inability to recognize situations and react to opponent strategies in high pressure spots. Second, we rolled 2 good teams because we shot a ridiculously high % from three. Well, when you are hitting jumpshots at the rate we did against UConn and Cuse, you can look real good without actually being good. Its fool's gold. Thinking we were a top 10 team because we had a hot shooting night against Cuse and Uconn and beat a Memphis team that has no point guard and is far from elite, was probably not my brightest moment. Well, I see the light now. When the shots are not falling and as you say adversity hits, this team cannot respond. To me, it is not a lack of effort but a lack of experience in these type of high pressure tough situations where the team needs to be operating on instinct rather than thinking. There is a reason our two biggest wins were blow-outs, what if we were actually challenged? My guess is you would see the same thing we see now from this team. Also, confidence is a huge problem, and young teams struggle the most with it. When you have it (likely from hitting some nice shots) things flow when you don't everything can unravel to the point you do not "believe" anymore in the system (since you have no success with it prior to this season). I think that is where most of this team is right now. It is going to take time, so I am giving these guys a chance to figure it out, can they respond when the shots are not falling and the situations become tense and it seems like what your doing does not work?
|
|
guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,624
|
Post by guru on Jan 25, 2009 21:53:50 GMT -5
Those who saw this coming were vilified on this Board...maybe more tolerance in the future is in order. Poor recruiting is at the top of the list...no bangers, no length...and the big men on the bench are not BE quality players. Then there's the P offense...when's the last time you saw a back door cut...too much finesse, and a foreign system for today's more modern offensive strategy...and for today's kids coming out of high school and off the playgrounds. THIS IS NOT THE IVY league...and the coaching staff needs to wake up...the kids are telling them something, sending a message that's falling on unresponsive ears...the Hoyas are not playing the modern BE game. But it's too late by now...even the NIT and hitting bottom may be needed to shake up a team of 3 McDs...that may have thrown in the towel. What a shame. Hoyaheaven - the system is NOT the problem at the moment. Suddenly, the system that lost 6 games combined in the Big East the past 2 regular seasons can't win in this league - do 2 straight regular season titles mean anything to you? It's not the system. It's the chemistry.
|
|
SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
|
Post by SirSaxa on Jan 25, 2009 21:59:05 GMT -5
What struck me the most about being in the arena is how little excitement there was in the crowd. This is both a criticism of seton hall fans an. A recognition of the terrible basketball that was playe. Even if we had squeaked out a win I wouldn't be feeling good either Someone else mentioned it, but nice job by the GU students today. The Seton Hall crowd was beyond pathetic. I was right next GU students and they were consistently loud, even when things were going poorly. It was a nice job, but SOMEONE needs to teach the students the "We Are (beat, beat) Georgetown" chant. They blow it. It loses its impact, its effect when they shout it at the same candence as Hoya Saxa. They have to learn to slow it down and put the beats in. It is much more dramatic and effective the original way.
|
|
mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
|
Post by mapei on Jan 25, 2009 22:24:39 GMT -5
Ability: I see a serious lack of quickness, particularly on defense. Also, no one other than DaJuan can sky for a rebound. Jessie does a good job for his size.
Coaching: Austin and Chris seem like they have never had to play defense and like they haven't learned at Georgetown, either. Seton Hall wasn't good enough to take much advantage, but we don't seem to know the game. As others have said, we don't seem to take advantage of mismatches and looked awful coming out of timeouts.
Toughness, heart, chemistry, mental effort, etc.: We're making a lot of mental mistakes with very sloppy passes, stepping out of bounds, etc. We were beat to a lot of loose balls today. People aren't covering for each other. DS can't concentrate enough to make a dunk, although I'll grant that he has been our best player much of the first half of the season. When Chris's plan A isn't working, he seems pretty clueless.
|
|
|
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jan 25, 2009 22:32:02 GMT -5
Bob Knight sums up what I feel about the team after the last three games:
(NSFW)
|
|
|
Post by unclebeets on Jan 25, 2009 23:11:20 GMT -5
What struck me the most about being in the arena is how little excitement there was in the crowd. This is both a criticism of seton hall fans an. A recognition of the terrible basketball that was playe. Even if we had squeaked out a win I wouldn't be feeling good either Someone else mentioned it, but nice job by the GU students today. The Seton Hall crowd was beyond pathetic. I was right next GU students and they were consistently loud, even when things were going poorly. I am old enough to remember just how bad the SH program was before PJ got there (Andre McCloud, anyone?). And Eddie Griffin (RIP) took some air out of the balloon. Doesn't help that they've been playing on the Nets' home court -- might be the only place where the NBA can't outdraw the Ice Capades.
|
|
vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
|
Post by vcjack on Jan 25, 2009 23:13:22 GMT -5
What struck me the most about being in the arena is how little excitement there was in the crowd. This is both a criticism of seton hall fans an. A recognition of the terrible basketball that was playe. Even if we had squeaked out a win I wouldn't be feeling good either Someone else mentioned it, but nice job by the GU students today. The Seton Hall crowd was beyond pathetic. I was right next GU students and they were consistently loud, even when things were going poorly. Wish there were better circumstances but thanks for the compliment. And I don't mean to be overly critical of SHU fans, they were for the most part very polite (and these are Jersey people!) and knowledgeable about the game, but man was there little life. The most telling moment is when some Seton Hall students accidentally walked onto our bus after the game and once they realized who we were they said "oh I'm sorry, you just lost to us and we suck".
|
|
bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
|
Post by bmartin on Jan 25, 2009 23:13:49 GMT -5
No leadership on either end of the floor. They have to figure it out. JTIII does not script the plays. He expects them to run the offense, move the ball, find the open man or the mismatch and then get back and play tough defense. The game was lost because of too many easy transition baskets for Seton Hall. After we miss a three, the guys who are not crashing the boards need to get the hell back on defense. Hall could not hit a shot beyond 10 feet, but our defense was awful when we needed a few stops.
|
|
hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,043
|
Post by hoyabinx on Jan 25, 2009 23:31:55 GMT -5
Bob Knight sums up what I feel about the team after the last three games: (NSFW) Hahahah, that is hilarious AND accurate.
|
|
moe09
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,101
|
Post by moe09 on Jan 26, 2009 0:57:23 GMT -5
Someone else mentioned it, but nice job by the GU students today. The Seton Hall crowd was beyond pathetic. I was right next GU students and they were consistently loud, even when things were going poorly. It was a nice job, but SOMEONE needs to teach the students the "We Are (beat, beat) Georgetown" chant. They blow it. It loses its impact, its effect when they shout it at the same candence as Hoya Saxa. They have to learn to slow it down and put the beats in. It is much more dramatic and effective the original way. This is a problem at every game, actually....
|
|
moe09
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,101
|
Post by moe09 on Jan 26, 2009 1:10:15 GMT -5
I agree with bits and pieces from a lot of posts in this thread, most notably Moe's "we just played worse than Seton Hall, it's not like they played well to beat us" observation. First off before I start ripping into those who deserve it, kudos to a few groups of people: Hoya Blue for making the trip up and being extremely vocal throughout, as well as the officials, who collectively as a group turned in one of the best overall performances I've seen in years. Maybe once did I even think there was a questionable call, and that's amazing considering some of the recent crews' performances. OK, time to dish it out. Our guys really have to go home tonight and take a long look in the mirror. If you don't want to bust it back in transition and play defense instead of turning every missed shot into a 3 on 1 break, stay on the bench. If you want to continue to commit dumb fouls like fouling jump shooters. stay on the bench. And if you want to act like you've never seen a pick and roll before, stay on the bench. These are GRADE SCHOOL MISTAKES, guys. For the people who got on any posters after the WVU game about criticizing the team for a lack of effort, I don't care what you say... TODAY WAS A LACK OF EFFORT. There's no way around this. I have never seen a team (Seton Hall) play so poorly and still beat a JTIII-led team. If this team showed any kind of competitive desire, we would have won this game by at least 10. Look, I can live with shots not falling. That will happen, like against ND. Sometimes it just wasn't meant to be. I CANNOT LIVE with the crap defense that our guards are pretending to play, and the refusal to limit transition baskets. Show me some fricken heart out there. I'll support this team through thick and thin. I think pretty much all of us will. But this team deserves every bit of criticism it gets until it decides it wants to compete and proudly wear the uniforms that represent our school. I hope they use this game as the clear message that it's time to wake up. Thanks, rockaway, I could've gone on about this one.. but quite frankly that quote sums up why I just can't continue to think about it. You know, I can take the loss to USF a couple years ago when those guys came out and played (USF) well, but this is a game where you just lost to WVU by 18, you're playing a team that hasn't won a game in Big East play, and you're supposed to have some pride, and play with some heart, and instead this team did the opposite. Stupid, careless passes... just throwing up threes when working the ball for good shots is what is needed... all while SH is handing this game to us on a silver platter... I've been on a lot of basketball teams, and I can't understand a performance like this, and perhaps to me that's why this loss is so frustrating. If I was JTIII I would be giving these kids a serious gut-check right about now...
|
|
|
Post by hoyainindia on Jan 26, 2009 1:11:54 GMT -5
Bob Knight sums up what I feel about the team after the last three games: (NSFW) Hahahah, that is hilarious AND accurate. Now is when JTIII needs a little of whatever Bobby Knight is on...
|
|
|
Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Jan 26, 2009 9:34:47 GMT -5
We've played pretty crappy ever since Hollis joined the team before the Pitt game. I blame him.
|
|
HoyaNCCT
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
We will remind them.
Posts: 685
|
Post by HoyaNCCT on Jan 26, 2009 9:40:19 GMT -5
I hope coach held practice after this game. I remember in high school after a similar perfomance our coach had us running sprints on the court while people were exiting the gym... we learned our lesson pretty quickly.
|
|
|
Post by Hoya TMF on Jan 26, 2009 10:00:04 GMT -5
I agree. Let's blame Hollis and Jansen.
|
|
RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,672
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Jan 26, 2009 11:56:00 GMT -5
Btw, since someone mentioned the lack of court-rushing at the start of this thread:
With 3 minutes to go, the PA read a statement telling people that they could not rush the court. Even then, it didn't really look like the SHU students were going to anyway - they seemed like a pretty downtrodden lot. PJ's speech at halftime was full of allusions to difficult times and money woes... a handy reminder that some BE programs are in far more dire straits than we are.
|
|