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Post by 1984alloveragain on Jan 25, 2009 17:41:19 GMT -5
daytona, I was thinking the same thing. That run started with DS shooting a 1 and 1, and missing the front end, then fouling leading to two made ft's from SH - a 4-0 swing that got them momentum to finish within 1 at half. SUX.
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Post by hometownhoya89 on Jan 25, 2009 17:48:14 GMT -5
has jt3 ever had a 3-loss streak?
if we don't recapture our old form, we could .500 or worse for the rest of the season. and that would effectively end our season; I can't expect more than 1-2 tournament wins (BE, NCAA, or NIT) TOTAL out of this squad right now.
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Post by 1984alloveragain on Jan 25, 2009 17:50:45 GMT -5
yeah.. remember the 1st season when we ended the regular season with 5 straight losses taking us out of dance.
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Post by theyellofallyells on Jan 25, 2009 18:09:46 GMT -5
I guess we should be thankful Dajuan even hit the RIM in his last 3 point attempt...what in the world is going on? this is so disappointing.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jan 25, 2009 18:10:49 GMT -5
I get the sense over the past two weeks that this team just doesn't like each other - two of our starters in particular. If that's the case, there's not a whole lot JT3 can do - might have to wright off this season (and no, that wasn't a typo). Which two?
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 25, 2009 18:15:26 GMT -5
I agree with bits and pieces from a lot of posts in this thread, most notably Moe's "we just played worse than Seton Hall, it's not like they played well to beat us" observation.
First off before I start ripping into those who deserve it, kudos to a few groups of people: Hoya Blue for making the trip up and being extremely vocal throughout, as well as the officials, who collectively as a group turned in one of the best overall performances I've seen in years. Maybe once did I even think there was a questionable call, and that's amazing considering some of the recent crews' performances.
OK, time to dish it out. Our guys really have to go home tonight and take a long look in the mirror. If you don't want to bust it back in transition and play defense instead of turning every missed shot into a 3 on 1 break, stay on the bench. If you want to continue to commit dumb fouls like fouling jump shooters. stay on the bench. And if you want to act like you've never seen a pick and roll before, stay on the bench. These are GRADE SCHOOL MISTAKES, guys. For the people who got on any posters after the WVU game about criticizing the team for a lack of effort, I don't care what you say... TODAY WAS A LACK OF EFFORT. There's no way around this. I have never seen a team (Seton Hall) play so poorly and still beat a JTIII-led team. If this team showed any kind of competitive desire, we would have won this game by at least 10.
Look, I can live with shots not falling. That will happen, like against ND. Sometimes it just wasn't meant to be. I CANNOT LIVE with the crap defense that our guards are pretending to play, and the refusal to limit transition baskets. Show me some fricken heart out there.
I'll support this team through thick and thin. I think pretty much all of us will. But this team deserves every bit of criticism it gets until it decides it wants to compete and proudly wear the uniforms that represent our school. I hope they use this game as the clear message that it's time to wake up.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jan 25, 2009 18:28:04 GMT -5
But the clear message that it's time to wake up should've been west virginia.
That's what makes this performance so troubling and scary.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 25, 2009 18:51:49 GMT -5
I agree with bits and pieces from a lot of posts in this thread, most notably Moe's "we just played worse than Seton Hall, it's not like they played well to beat us" observation. First off before I start ripping into those who deserve it, kudos to a few groups of people: Hoya Blue for making the trip up and being extremely vocal throughout, as well as the officials, who collectively as a group turned in one of the best overall performances I've seen in years. Maybe once did I even think there was a questionable call, and that's amazing considering some of the recent crews' performances. OK, time to dish it out. Our guys really have to go home tonight and take a long look in the mirror. If you don't want to bust it back in transition and play defense instead of turning every missed shot into a 3 on 1 break, stay on the bench. If you want to continue to commit dumb fouls like fouling jump shooters. stay on the bench. And if you want to act like you've never seen a pick and roll before, stay on the bench. These are GRADE SCHOOL MISTAKES, guys. For the people who got on any posters after the WVU game about criticizing the team for a lack of effort, I don't care what you say... TODAY WAS A LACK OF EFFORT. There's no way around this. I have never seen a team (Seton Hall) play so poorly and still beat a JTIII-led team. If this team showed any kind of competitive desire, we would have won this game by at least 10. Look, I can live with shots not falling. That will happen, like against ND. Sometimes it just wasn't meant to be. I CANNOT LIVE with the crap defense that our guards are pretending to play, and the refusal to limit transition baskets. Show me some fricken heart out there. I'll support this team through thick and thin. I think pretty much all of us will. But this team deserves every bit of criticism it gets until it decides it wants to compete and proudly wear the uniforms that represent our school. I hope they use this game as the clear message that it's time to wake up. spot on.....shots can go cold but effort never should....we don't look like we want to win out there....it's baffling. I cannot put into words what i saw this afternoon....something bizarre is going on
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 25, 2009 19:04:31 GMT -5
I saw better effort today than WVU. The team is simply not a Top 25 caliber team. They fed our high expectations and now we are seeing reality. It sucks, but it was not completely unexpected. I am greatly lowering my expectations, what I see is a young team that is simply not ready for this level of play. You guys may see a lack of effort, I see a lack of ability.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 25, 2009 19:21:02 GMT -5
NC, if you think we lost this game because of a lack of ability, I don't think I can disagree more.
We lost to a team that shot 0-13 from 3 against our 2-3 zone. It is RIDICULOUSLY hard to pull that off. But we did. Because AGAIN, we were slow on defense. We didn't fight through picks. We gave up run out after run out (and several times, SHU didn't even capitalize on them). And we committed dumb fouls because we were lazy. None of that can be mistaken for effort.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 25, 2009 19:23:50 GMT -5
I saw better effort today than WVU. The team is simply not a Top 25 caliber team. They fed our high expectations and now we are seeing reality. It sucks, but it was not completely unexpected. I am greatly lowering my expectations, what I see is a young team that is simply not ready for this level of play. You guys may see a lack of effort, I see a lack of ability. This is the biggest load of nonsense ever. This team has rolled THREE ranked teams. They "fed our high expectations" by beating multiple talented tournament-bound teams? Well how nice of them! You beat Memphis by accident. You beat Memphia and 'Cuse because you're good at home. You beat Memphis, 'Cuse, and UConn on the road because you're a good team. They weren't feeding anything. Everything was clicking and they were working together and having fun. But this team had adversity with Greg's T at Cameron, WVU punching them in the mouth, and today going on the road it hit bottom. They are not mentally tough. And I don't care if they come out and go 11-19 from three against Cincy and Marquette and win both. We know they can do that because ability is all they have. It's everything else they lack.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 25, 2009 20:02:09 GMT -5
Just got back from the game. Basic thoughts:
Team - no energy, no fire...again. I've never watched a game with so many people stepping out of bounds with the ball (a few of which were people receiving the ball while out of bounds.) Just a waste.
Summers - I ref elementary school games, and if those kids had handles like DS today, they would have been pulled. And he was fouled on the dunk attempt, but it seemed like he was going to brink it anyway. I would really just let him try a dunk if I was on the other team...he is about a 70% shooter from 1 inch away. On the bright side, maybe there were scouts from the Knicks there, so he'll be in demand in the NBA.
Monroe - wasted. effort Needs to get stronger generally so he can finish and post better...but other than that, he played well. Seems to care out there, does what he needs to do, but had no support.
Freeman - but when things are going well, he is a cool assassin. When they aren't going well, seems aloof and uncaring. When he pulls a Rivers and punishes the side of the backboard, its brutal. A little fire would be nice, but I don't think that is who he is or will ever be. He is possibly my favorite player, so disappointing to watch the effort today.
Sapp - played well in first half, fell off a bit. Then became pearl onions on a late three attempt. At least he seems to care, going for rebounds, loose balls.
Wright - two speeds, slow and out of control. Getting past your guy is only half the battle...doesn't mean much if you just end up throwing the ball up or getting it stuffed. I believe he will turn it around...but those talking about an upgrade from Wallace or top thre PG in the BE...time to ask for a mulligan.
Vaughn - looked good in limited action. Why limited? Because the other team's big guys were in foul trouble, so we had to keep a small line up to match their lineup. Take advantage of a mismatch? Why do that...let's have the other team dictate what we do.
Coaching - team wasn't ready to play again. We seem to play the style the other team wants to play, and just hope we do it better. Previous years we had an identity, this year its hard to say. We aren't run and gun, we aren't methodical, we aren't physical, we aren't a strong defensive team. Not sure what we are. If we launch well from the outside, fine, we look good. Otherwise, we have looked brutal. When they had rec league players down low, our approach didn't change at all. When they press, we just break it passively, almost never making them pay for the pressure. We have yet to pressure anyone and create turnovers...since our defense is not as sound as previous years, we need to turn over our opponent. Hasn't happened consistently enough. Very disappointing.
OK, I feel better. Love the team...knew we would have ups and downs, but was hoping that WVU was the floor. Apparently, there is a basement. On to the next game.
hm
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Post by hoyaheaven on Jan 25, 2009 20:15:40 GMT -5
Those who saw this coming were vilified on this Board...maybe more tolerance in the future is in order.
Poor recruiting is at the top of the list...no bangers, no length...and the big men on the bench are not BE quality players.
Then there's the P offense...when's the last time you saw a back door cut...too much finesse, and a foreign system for today's more modern offensive strategy...and for today's kids coming out of high school and off the playgrounds.
THIS IS NOT THE IVY league...and the coaching staff needs to wake up...the kids are telling them something, sending a message that's falling on unresponsive ears...the Hoyas are not playing the modern BE game.
But it's too late by now...even the NIT and hitting bottom may be needed to shake up a team of 3 McDs...that may have thrown in the towel.
What a shame.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 25, 2009 20:17:16 GMT -5
Giga couldn't agree more with what you say. Mental toughness in the face of adversity is clearly lacking with this group. From the top all the way down. The question which remains to be answered is how they respond. We maynot get a clear answer until sometime next season.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 25, 2009 20:31:41 GMT -5
Those who saw this coming were vilified on this Board...maybe more tolerance in the future is in order. Poor recruiting is at the top of the list...no bangers, no length...and the big men on the bench are not BE quality players. Then there's the P offense...when's the last time you saw a back door cut...too much finesse, and a foreign system for today's more modern offensive strategy...and for today's kids coming out of high school and off the playgrounds. THIS IS NOT THE IVY league...and the coaching staff needs to wake up...the kids are telling them something, sending a message that's falling on unresponsive ears...the Hoyas are not playing the modern BE game. But it's too late by now...even the NIT and hitting bottom may be needed to shake up a team of 3 McDs...that may have thrown in the towel. What a shame. Sorry sir, I'm going to have to pick this one apart. Poor recruiting? Really? Perhaps you want to go back to the days of Drew Hall and Matt Causey. I'll take this group, who although not playing up to their capabilities right now, at least has the ability to make something of themselves if they commit to doing so. When's the last time I saw a backdoor cut? Certainly not today. But that's not because the offense doesn't work. Again, as is the pet peeve of SF and many others on the board, the reason for our offensive woes isn't the system. Rather, the problem is our players unwillingness to buy into it at all times, especially when we fall behind late in games. If you want what you deem "modern offensive strategy," then go follow Memphis. It was really effective against us earlier this year; I'm not sure why other teams don't follow suit. It's not on the coaching staff to be responsive to what the kids want. It's the other way around. JTIII and Co. don't need to prove to their current squad that their system works. The banners in McD already serve that purpose. It's up to the KIDS to wake up and follow the game plan. If they don't like it, they can go sit on Indiana/Florida's bench and be mediocre there.
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Post by hoyaheaven on Jan 25, 2009 20:34:34 GMT -5
Whay was it Jack Nickolson said??
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Post by 1984alloveragain on Jan 25, 2009 20:35:39 GMT -5
hoyaheaven's critique on recruiting: Need size; Length; Bangers... Anybody remember Chris Braswell? He was once in the top 20 of his class; signed to the Hilltop and would have given this team much of what is lacking inside? Modern Americans have the memory of a tse tse fly, I'm convinced.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 25, 2009 20:36:20 GMT -5
We had plenty of backdoor cuts versus WVU, for whatever that's worth.
I think the more perplexing thing about hoyaheaven's post is that he believes the players have given up and stopped trying -- and yet he blames the coach. Apparently the players would bear no responsibility in this situation.
I don't think these players have completely given up, personally, but if they have, it's on them. Having managed people, you can do a lot of motivation, but most of it has to come from the person themselves.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 25, 2009 20:37:56 GMT -5
You're goddamn right I did.
Alley...oop.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 25, 2009 20:41:49 GMT -5
They played a zone not alot of back door cuts available. We failed to make the zone move and as usual are very passive against it. Its not just driving into or passing to the foul line alot of different ways to make a zone move but 3 slow passes around the perimeter usual isn't one of them.
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