Official "Lost" Season 4 Thread

[vagrant]

This is what makes this show so great. I have a feeling this show is subject to our own personal interpretation of the events, and I have an educated guess that even the end will be left to our own interpretation. Maybe it is us who are being challenged by relative concepts of reality, concepts relative to our own personal development/evolution. It is in our own projections that the island will make sense.

--vagrant

[Boz]

Not me!

I would like everything explained to me in the clearest and most unequivocal terms. I would like this show tied up with a shiny red bow and, yes, I would like a little sugar sprinkled over the top.

Do you not realize I have destroyed way too much of what once was -- if I may say so -- a fairly high functioning brain? I can't deal with all of these ambiguities and possibilities.

I want Michael Bay put in charge of this show posthaste!

;D

I will say this though. If this show ends with Walt holding & shaking a snow globe with a tropical island inside, I am going to shoot someone.

[strummer8526]

Or with Jack waking up next to Kate saying what a crazy dream he just had.

I do think that they will wrap up at least most of the questions. Like I think we'll learn whether there's time travel, who or what is running this island, where it is located, what the significance is behind all the connections of the characters from before the island, etc.

I'm hoping that there's a difference between an ambiguous ending to the plot and ambiguity in its meaning--like a good Shakesperian play: there are different themes and messages that resonate differently for each reader/viewer of basic "human" stories, but the facts and story themselves at least get tied together. Ambiguity in meaning, I can deal with. Ambiguity in the story itself will annoy me b/c I'll spend more time figuring out what the hell was going on than thinking about its significance.

Also, the writers have said that they're very happy knowing EXACTLY how many seasons the show is running b/c it gives them a sense of how to pace everything. So they know where they're going already and how this thing will end. I trust them not to let us down.

[Deleted]

May 5, 2008 21:32:41 GMT -5 vagrant said:

This is what makes this show so great. I have a feeling this show is subject to our own personal interpretation of the events, and I have an educated guess that even the end will be left to our own interpretation. Maybe it is us who are being challenged by relative concepts of reality, concepts relative to our own personal development/evolution. It is in our own projections that the island will make sense.

--vagrant

Agree 100%.

I heard that quote from the producers and writers too, strummer. We could make a monster list of plot mechanisms that we think will be explained, but I'll spare us the time. Things like Smokie, Jacob, Four-Toed Statue, The Numbers, etc. will be explained, if I had to guess. But I'm also guessing we're left at the very end to wonder "why." Everything will be tied together, but it will be up to the millions of fans to speculate to the remaining few questions about purpose, meaning, etc.

[strummer8526]

Also, in order to really deal w/ Aaron and the need for him to be raised by Claire, we're going to have to do some serious time jumping with him hopefully. I could see him getting a flash forward episode or two mixed into this.

[Deleted]

May 6, 2008 11:39:16 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

Also, in order to really deal w/ Aaron and the need for him to be raised by Claire, we're going to have to do some serious time jumping with him hopefully. I could see him getting a flash forward episode or two mixed into this.

Of course, it could be handled in a Claire flashforward. Remember, just because she isn't one of the Oceanic 6 doesn't mean she's dead (as Jack made abundantly clear with his "HE CHOSE TO STAY!!!" rant about Sawyer). We could have Claire flashforwards revealing Aaron's true destiny.

[Deleted]

I wanted to make this a separate part of the thread rather than bury it. Already Nevada has said the "key" to the show is the Desmond/Penny relationship. I've read other fans on other boards try and make the argument Aaron is the key, the Ben/Annie relationship is, some say Jack's dad, some say the people that connect the Losties off the island (i.e. Jack's dad, Sawyer's baby momma, the psychic, etc.), still others say Ben/Widmore.

Any thoughts?

Personally, I think the "center" of the Lost universe is going to prove to be The Numbers. Somehow, someway the writers and producers are going to reveal that sequence as binding all things Lost together.

Speaking of which, now that Smokie Monster is back, can we bring back a few other devices that have fallen by the wayside in recent episodes? The Numbers, DHARMA, etc.

[RBHoya]

May 6, 2008 12:28:43 GMT -5 buffalohoya said:

I wanted to make this a separate part of the thread rather than bury it. Already Nevada has said the "key" to the show is the Desmond/Penny relationship. I've read other fans on other boards try and make the argument Aaron is the key, the Ben/Annie relationship is, some say Jack's dad, some say the people that connect the Losties off the island (i.e. Jack's dad, Sawyer's baby momma, the psychic, etc.), still others say Ben/Widmore.

Any thoughts?

I kind of think that the macro-scale game between Ben and Widmore is the center of things--at least the center of things as the story moves forward. That would seem to be the one overarching storyline from which all things stem. The island has some crazy properties, and both of them desire control of it as a result. Learning more about the details of that conflict, as well as seeing it through to a possible resolution, will explain a lot of what we've been seeing lately. For example we know some people get off the island, some stay, some get off and want to go back. The flashforwards have presented us with some some crazy stuff, and we have no idea a)what happens to the characters that are not in the Oceanic 6 and b)what happens to EVERYONE later on, beyond what we've seen, with Jack's "We have to go back!" moment being presumably the furthest thing we've seen. Do they actually go back? Does Ben or Widmore win control, or neither? Is there a happy ending? I think the Ben/Widmore storyline will explain a lot of that. And I do think that Desmond will factor in heavily--in fact, I think Desmond may come to play a role for Widmore similar to the role Sayid is playing for Ben.

The other thing, arguably more important, that needs major resolution (speaking broadly) is how the island is so fantastically powerful. It's been clear throughout that there are larger forces at play, and that the crash was really no accident. Even though Desmond's failure to enter the code in time was the direct cause of the crash, the crash was clearly "meant to happen", and events came together to make it happen, and presumably "the island" itself did that, though maybe not. It's also got a lot of other things going for it--smoke monsters, birds that can speak, polar bears, the ability to make the paralyzed walk, and other stuff too. One of the craziest things, I thought, was Michael trying to kill himself and "the island" not letting him. How in the blue hell does the island have that kind of power? They have to at least shed some light on that, if not explain it completely. It's essentially the original question that the show posed--"What is this place?"

I wouldn't be shocked if your wish comes true Buff... somehow they have to explain "what is this place?" and how the island can seemingly control the fate of so many. It's possible that the current Lost characters could piece it together via further discoveries, that Ben could shed light on it, that Widmore and his crew could shed light on it, or something like that. But that just doesn't seem to be where things are trending. The Oceanic 6 look to be heading off the island in the very near future. Of the rest, Sawyer apparently chooses to stay, as presumably does Locke. Jin doesn't seem to have any reason to stay, so presumably he gets killed or stuck on the island in some way. Claire is MIA at best, dead at worst. The rest, we're not sure. But it seems unlikely to me that with 6 people about to get off the island at this season's end (including 3 of the leaders in Jack/Kate/Sayid) that all the island's secrets could be uncovered in short order, especially considering I expect some stuff to go down when the O6 get off the island. I think they'd almost have to tell that story on an entirely different timeline if they're going to explain it all, otherwise they'd never be able to explain that AND resolve the present/immediate future stuff within the span of 2 seasons.

Of course, there's a chance that they leave a lot of it unexplained

[The Stig]

I don't watch too much of the show, but as a Monty Python fan I thought this video was brilliant:

[Deleted]

May 6, 2008 22:02:01 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

I kind of think that the macro-scale game between Ben and Widmore is the center of things--at least the center of things as the story moves forward. That would seem to be the one overarching storyline from which all things stem. The island has some crazy properties, and both of them desire control of it as a result. Learning more about the details of that conflict, as well as seeing it through to a possible resolution, will explain a lot of what we've been seeing lately. For example we know some people get off the island, some stay, some get off and want to go back. The flashforwards have presented us with some some crazy stuff, and we have no idea a)what happens to the characters that are not in the Oceanic 6 and b)what happens to EVERYONE later on, beyond what we've seen, with Jack's "We have to go back!" moment being presumably the furthest thing we've seen. Do they actually go back? Does Ben or Widmore win control, or neither? Is there a happy ending? I think the Ben/Widmore storyline will explain a lot of that. And I do think that Desmond will factor in heavily--in fact, I think Desmond may come to play a role for Widmore similar to the role Sayid is playing for Ben.

The other thing, arguably more important, that needs major resolution (speaking broadly) is how the island is so fantastically powerful. It's been clear throughout that there are larger forces at play, and that the crash was really no accident. Even though Desmond's failure to enter the code in time was the direct cause of the crash, the crash was clearly "meant to happen", and events came together to make it happen, and presumably "the island" itself did that, though maybe not. It's also got a lot of other things going for it--smoke monsters, birds that can speak, polar bears, the ability to make the paralyzed walk, and other stuff too. One of the craziest things, I thought, was Michael trying to kill himself and "the island" not letting him. How in the blue hell does the island have that kind of power? They have to at least shed some light on that, if not explain it completely. It's essentially the original question that the show posed--"What is this place?"

I wouldn't be shocked if your wish comes true Buff... somehow they have to explain "what is this place?" and how the island can seemingly control the fate of so many. It's possible that the current Lost characters could piece it together via further discoveries, that Ben could shed light on it, that Widmore and his crew could shed light on it, or something like that. But that just doesn't seem to be where things are trending. The Oceanic 6 look to be heading off the island in the very near future. Of the rest, Sawyer apparently chooses to stay, as presumably does Locke. Jin doesn't seem to have any reason to stay, so presumably he gets killed or stuck on the island in some way. Claire is MIA at best, dead at worst. The rest, we're not sure. But it seems unlikely to me that with 6 people about to get off the island at this season's end (including 3 of the leaders in Jack/Kate/Sayid) that all the island's secrets could be uncovered in short order, especially considering I expect some stuff to go down when the O6 get off the island. I think they'd almost have to tell that story on an entirely different timeline if they're going to explain it all, otherwise they'd never be able to explain that AND resolve the present/immediate future stuff within the span of 2 seasons.

Of course, there's a chance that they leave a lot of it unexplained

Most excellent post, RB. As the season goes on (three more episodes? Maybe one this week and a double next week?), be sure to weigh in with your thoughts.

Am I the only one who is going to cheer outloud when Keamy (Alex's executioner, leader of Widmore's mercs) gets his come-uppins and dies? I hate that bastard. Alex had so much upside potential as a future hottie on the show...

Also, are we going to see any more of Abaddon (Cedric Daniels from "The Wire")? That guy is so freakin' mysterious.

EDIT: Oh and another thing related to Keamy... any chance he was in a military outfit with Inman? You know, the guy who Sayid worked for when he was working under the direction of the American's after the first Gulf War, who worked for Kate's dad during said war and was later Des' roommate in the Swan Station?

[Boz]

May 7, 2008 7:58:41 GMT -5 buffalohoya said:

Most excellent post, RB. As the season goes on (three more episodes? Maybe one this week and a double next week?), be sure to weigh in with your thoughts.

Am I the only one who is going to cheer outloud when Keamy (Alex's executioner, leader of Widmore's mercs) gets his come-uppins and dies? I hate that bastard. Alex had so much upside potential as a future hottie on the show...

Also, are we going to see any more of Abaddon (Cedric Daniels from "The Wire")? That guy is so freakin' mysterious.

EDIT: Oh and another thing related to Keamy... any chance he was in a military outfit with Inman? You know, the guy who Sayid worked for when he was working under the direction of the American's after the first Gulf War, who worked for Kate's dad during said war and was later Des' roommate in the Swan Station?

I liked Abbadon in Oz as the undercover officer in the prison.

I'd say, given the Charles Dickens nature of the Lost universe, that your theory regarding Keamy and Clancy Brown is probably true. They are both Marines and, in this universe, that's really all the thread necessary to tie two people together.

I'm also interested in finding out how this whole Linus-Widmore game got started (maybe more interested in that than the actual nature of the game itself).

There is some background for it, of course, with Widmore's apparent connections to DHARMA, and Ben's execution of all the DHARMA people on the island. Also, we know that Ben has left (will have left? - I feel like Douglas Adams in trying to find the right tense for this show) the island at least once, but I think it's safe to assume that this wasn't (will not have been?) the only time he left.

But it seems as though Widmore's never been there, and no matter how many times Ben may have left the island, we know that he spent most of his childhood there and, given his connection to it, would assume that he spent at least the majority if not all of his adult life there as well.

But their meeting implied a very close relationship. Not friendly, just close. So when and how did that happen?

I also enjoy looking at the various maps of the island, and there are a number of locations that still need exploration/explanation.

[strummer8526]

I am very very much hoping for some Keamy come-uppins tonight. And we're overdue for a Locke episode, so that's exciting. I think it might be the first flash forward to someone who stays on the island, which could be really helpful in piecing some things together (like at least who's still alive and who's not).

After not liking Sawyer for a long time (mostly b/c I found the Jack, Kate, Sawyer love-triangle to be the most pointless storyline), I'm definitely liking the foursome of Sawyer, Locke, Hurley, and Ben. They're competing with Sayid and Desmond for my favorite new little clique that's formed from the splintering of the group.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2008 10:34:12 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

After not liking Sawyer for a long time (mostly b/c I found the Jack, Kate, Sawyer love-triangle to be the most pointless storyline), I'm definitely liking the foursome of Sawyer, Locke, Hurley, and Ben. They're competing with Sayid and Desmond for my favorite new little clique that's formed from the splintering of the group.

I completely agree. Its amazing how much I've come to like Sawyer and abso-freakin'-loutely love Ben now that their lives on The Island have taken slight turns. My girlfriend (who is a big Lost fan as well) is disgusted at my affection for Ben, seeing as how I spent two full seasons loathing his very soul.

[Deleted]

Wow. A multi-stage flashback? Well played, Lost. Well played.

1 - Apparently Richard Alpert has been tracking Locke for some years now. VERY interesting. It appears as if Locke's mere birth has caused some sort of ripple in the space-time continuum (or something along those lines) that brought powerful forces to check him out as a youth (Alpert) and as an adult (Abaddon after Locke's fall from the apartment window no thanks to his now-deceased father). So yeah, Locke is special. The Island is his destiny. Where do we go from here?

2 - Speaking of Abaddon, I'm glad he's back but now I have even MORE questions than answers! I think it's been all but established he works for Widmore. Remember, he sought out Hurley to ask about the location of The Island or The Losties in the season premiere (at the mental institution where Hurley was being held), and he was shown hiring Naomi and instructing her to take along Frank, Charlotte, Faraday and Miles.

But now we see him telling John to take his walkabout. Am I the only one who is reading this as "go to Austrailia John, because on your way back the plane will crash and it is your destiny to land on this island that we can't find... so you find it, and we find you, we find The Island"? Was the crash of 815 staged or was it Des not entering The Numbers in time? Or does he work for someone else? A higher power?

3 - As for Ben "relinquishing control" of The Island, if that's the case why has he assumed the role he has in the flashforwards we've seen as an enforcer for The Island? Maybe Jacob gives him a new assignment?

4 - Claire is alive and well (at least for now)!!! FANTASTIC!!! More Claire, please. And she's apparently safe with her father, Christian. Which might explain why Kate is raising an orphan. Remember, nobody in the show has said (in flashforwards) Claire died and Kate took up the cause to raise Aaron... that was all fan speculation. This now raises the question of whether or not the Losties actually KNOW what happens to Claire and WHY Claire is allowing Aaron off The Island, presumably to be "raised by another." Hmmm...

5 - Its apparent Jacob is the man behind the appearance of the supposedly dead Christian Sheppard, Goodspeed last night, Kate's black horse, Libby to Hurley shortly after her death, whomever Ana Lucia saw a season or two ago, Hurley's invisible bald friend Dave... etc.

6 - Is Richard Alpert, in fact, Jacob? Aaron?

7 - JOHN HAS TO MOVE THE ISLAND?!?!?! Ok, THAT IN AND OF ITSELF raises so many freakin' amazing possibilities.

Great episode. Two more to end the season, and it appears the Oceanic 6 get off next episode. What happens to Keamy and his mercs? How does Sayid get Kate, Sun, Aaron, Jack and Hurley - who isn't even with the group as of right now?!? HOW DOES JOHN MOVE THE ISLAND???

[kchoya]

I agree with Buff - another great episode with a couple of audible OOOOHHHH's when Alpert, Abaddon and Christian show up (along with a couple of discussions with the wife to remind her who Abaddon is and that it was Christian in the first cabin scene).

Also, Hurley's "Australia is the key" from when they were playing Risk a few episodes back seems more and more prophetic. From Abaddon sending Locke on a walkabout, to Rose going to the healer, to the psychic & Claire, to Hurley going to see that numbers guy (and Jack, and Kate, and so forth and so on).

[williambraskyiii]

I was a little frustrated by this episode because I actually didn't think much really happened -- sure we say Christian and Claire and Locke was special based on never-aging dude coming to see him right after he was born, but I didn't really get a sense of any governing principle here but rather more twists and turns that made my head spin.

I think what it comes down to is that, 8 weeks ago, I had never seen an episode of Lost. I've caught up over the past 8 weeks and I am not watching the episodes in real-time, so it isn't easy waiting week-to-week to watch the story unfold.

[Boz]

1 - Re: Alpert. OK, so now we're pretty sure that time travel is definitely in the mix here somehow. I don't really see any other way that an unchanged Alpert can visit Locke as a young boy. Farraday is the time travel guy. Farraday (perhaps unknowingly) is in the employ of Widmore. The Others and Widmore are enemies. Does Alpert work with Farraday on time travel, or is it some other person/force/etc.? I'm confused.

2 - I read the same intent in Abbadon's instructions. For all intents and purposes to date, I think we are meant to view Abbadon as a "bad guy" - works for Widmore, intimidates Hurley, places Locke's wheelchair at the top of the stairs, perhaps is involved in either the plane crash, the cover up or both. But, somehow, I just don't see him in that "bad guy" role. (and yes, I realize it's too simplistic in this show to use "good guy" "bad guy" labels). So what are we to think of him? I'm confused.

3 - Buffalo's "Ben-crush" aside (as long as you're not screaming out his name or anything, I guess it's OK ;D ), let's not forget that Ben is Ben. He may have "told" Locke that he was relinquishing control, but is there any evidence in four seasons that this is the sort of man who will do such a thing? Don't forget, right before this scene, Ben was congratulating Locke on convincing Hurley that it was "his idea" to stay with them. When Locke says, "I'm not you," Ben agrees, "No, you're not." I think Ben still knows exactly what he's doing. (Was it Juliet who said: "Ben is exactly where he wants/needs to be."?) In any case, I'm confused.

4 - Are we sure Claire is alive and well? We don't think Christian is technically "alive" and Claire was with him. She definitely had that "I know something you don't know" smirk going on, that's for sure. She had the look to me of someone who no longer has any cares for the mundane of the world, even if that mundane includes her baby. Whatever the case, the Claire we saw last night is not the Claire of every episode to date. I'm confused.

5 - Is Jacob a man? Is Jacob the island itself? I'm confused.

6 - See #5 above. Still confused.

7 - Uh-huh. And now I'm really confused.

Pretty great episode though, yeah. I've got to agree with that.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

yeah really worried about claire. She was acting very weird. I have a strong feeling she's already dead. That's why miles was starring at her so intently, that's why she left aaron, that's why she's in the cabin acting all creepy.

Crazy episode lots of twists and turns, and realization moments.

[kchoya]

May 9, 2008 10:01:17 GMT -5 williambraskyiii said:

I think what it comes down to is that, 8 weeks ago, I had never seen an episode of Lost. I've caught up over the past 8 weeks and I am not watching the episodes in real-time, so it isn't easy waiting week-to-week to watch the story unfold.

It's common - I just started watching Lost last summer, going through the first three seasons on DVD and iTunes. It's frustrating not to be able to jump right to the next episode. On the other hand, it's nice to have a series where you can't wait till next week to see what happens.

Mittleos = "lost time"

[RBHoya]

I still have a lot to think about and knowing myself I'll be working to piece this together straight through next thursday at 10. But if I were betting, I think that Claire is dead. She either died when that rocket blew up her house and it fell down on her, OR she sustained internal injuries at that point and died in her sleep a day or 2 later, on the night when she saw Christian. She just seemed too calm and unlike her usual self in that cabin, and she was with a guy who we know to be "dead", and looked about the same as he did. I think the show is going to blur the lines between dead and alive obviously, but I think Claire is dead in the conventional sense, along with Christian, Charlie etc. which is why she won't be raising Aaron.

Time travel clearly factors in in a big way, confirmed last night if it wasn't already. Alpert is doing it, and the doctors dead body washed up a day or two before he was killed on the freighter. This opens up a world of possibilities.

Now Locke is supposed to move the island... I think everyone's first reaction is "WTF???" because your first thought is "how in the hell do you physically move an island?" I guess it's possible that the island itself can sort of teleport, since it seems like Ben has been able to do that. But, my other thought was that maybe Locke's not supposed to physically move the island at all. Rather than move it in space, he is supposed to move the island in TIME. Or, maybe he is supposed to move it to another dimension, something like that. Whatever it is, I assume that that's what's going to trap Jin and keep him from being reunited with Sun, and traps Sawyer, Juliet, and the rest of the crew from having a real chance of getting off the island after the first 6 leave.

And it seems like the first 6 are going to leave with Sayid (Charon, anyone?) on the raft next week. I suspect they force Jack to go due to his medical condition (the will of the island), under the assumption that Sayid is just ferrying the first group of people and will be back shortly for Juliet, Jin, Rose and Bernard etc. Then, Locke's going to move the island somehow and everybody else will be stuck. That's my guess.

Still have no idea why Locke had drawn the smoke monster at age 5. Crazy stuff. I'm wondering if he is just seeing the future, or if he has been there somehow. Seems like there is some similarity between he and Walt, who I still expect to play a large role somehow.

As for who Jacob is... I'm still leaning toward him not being a person exactly, but some sort of consciousness or soul of the island. Maybe he is the being, human or superhuman, who summons the island into existence. But if it's actually a person, my leading guess would be Aaron. Sounds crazy right? But with all of the time traveling that occurs it seems to be within the realm of possibility. That would explain why his grandpa and his mom are in the cabin, and also why his upbringing is so important to everybody. I still have to think about that a little more, but something tells me there's a connection there.