Official "Lost" Season 4 Thread

[kchoya]

Mar 10, 2008 15:04:47 GMT -5 buffalohoya said:

Mar 10, 2008 9:40:41 GMT -5 kchoya said:

My guess is that Michael is Ben’s man on the boat because that seems so obvious, but then again, this is Lost we’re talking about. Does anyone remember what Ben told Michael when he and Walt left the island on the little boat? I can’t remember (I’ll have to go back to the DVD). Was it something about head in such and such a heading and you’ll run into a boat?

As to programming, originally it was supposed to be 8 episodes this year with the strike, but reading a WaPo chat the other day, one of the reporters said it’s now going to be 13 episodes (though I don’t know the timing).

And about the Oceanic 6, I thought the teaser said the last of the Oceanic 6 will be revealed. I count Jack, Kate, Sayid and Hurley. Are they counting Aaron (sp?) as number five? And I don’t necessarily think that Michael is one of the Oceanic Six, but we’ll have to wait and see.

Ben's instructions to Michael DID include a specific bearing to follow to "find rescue," I believe was the phrase. Interesting choice of words nonetheless...

They MUST be including Aaron if we are about to find out the LAST of the Oceanic 6. No one else has been "revealed" as such.

Then again, that means the outside world thinks Aaron is Kate's kid. Wouldn't the Feds have known whether or not she was pregnant as they were transporting her back to the States from Australia?

My guess is they probably wouldn't have known unless she was showing. From the flashbacks, there didn't seem to be much time between when she was caught and the flight. Also, there's this whole time disconnect thing between the island and the rest of the world, as demonstrated by Faraday's experiment and the amount of time it took for the helicopter to return to the ship.

(but on second thought, time seems to go slower on the island). Who knows.

Also, some of the descriptions I've seen in the listings for the upcoming shows kind of address some of the theories on here about who Ben's "man on the ship" is and other theories being discussed in this thread. I've copied those blurbs below, but so as not to spoil anything, they're in white text so you can highlight them to read them if you want.


Episode 7 - Juliet is forced to reveal some startling news to Jin when Sun threatens to move to Locke’s camp. Meanwhile, Sayid and Desmond begin to get an idea of the freighter crew’s mission when they meet the ship’s Captain.

Episode 8 - Sayid confronts Ben’s spy on the freighter, and Ben urges daughter Alex to flee Locke’s camp in order to survive an impending attack

[Cambridge]

Mar 10, 2008 15:04:47 GMT -5 buffalohoya said:

Then again, that means the outside world thinks Aaron is Kate's kid. Wouldn't the Feds have known whether or not she was pregnant as they were transporting her back to the States from Australia?

Ah, again the value of the time/space schism. There is no telling how much time has passed off the island compared to what has passed on the island. For all we know several months or even years have passed.

[vcjack]

Mar 10, 2008 20:08:27 GMT -5 Cambridge said:

Mar 10, 2008 15:04:47 GMT -5 buffalohoya said:

Then again, that means the outside world thinks Aaron is Kate's kid. Wouldn't the Feds have known whether or not she was pregnant as they were transporting her back to the States from Australia?

Ah, again the value of the time/space schism. There is no telling how much time has passed off the island compared to what has passed on the island. For all we know several months or even years have passed.

Actually we do know that Desmond calls Penny on Christmas Eve 2004 from the freighter

[Cambridge]

Mar 10, 2008 20:31:22 GMT -5 vcjack said:

Mar 10, 2008 20:08:27 GMT -5 Cambridge said:

Ah, again the value of the time/space schism. There is no telling how much time has passed off the island compared to what has passed on the island. For all we know several months or even years have passed.

Actually we do know that Desmond calls Penny on Christmas Eve 2004 from the freighter

1) He called from the freighter, not the island. We know there was some time lag between the two.

2) You assume it was Christmas Eve 2004. Yes, we know what day it said it was on the boat's calendar, but do we know if that was the real date? If that was the communication room where the loony toon (the other guy who had time lag) worked, why would anyone else mark his calendar? Seems to me, they would have just left it unmarked from the time he went bonkers and had to be strapped down. That means, it is unlikely that its the same day on the boat, right? Just a thought.

3) Also, you assume it is Christmas Eve 2004 when Penny receives the call. There were decorations, but we don't know what year or day it was for Penny, do we? It could have been any year, right? She was excited to receive the call, but I don't know if she would have been any more or any less excited if it was another time than that mentioned by Desmond. He is the only one that says he would call. She never corrects or affirms what he says about the date. She also asks where he's been, that could suggest he is late.

[vcjack]

Mar 10, 2008 20:35:38 GMT -5 Cambridge said:

Mar 10, 2008 20:31:22 GMT -5 vcjack said:

Actually we do know that Desmond calls Penny on Christmas Eve 2004 from the freighter

1) He called from the freighter, not the island. We know there was some time lag between the two.

2) You assume it was Christmas Eve 2004. Yes, we know what day it said it was on the boat's calendar, but do we know if that was the real date? If that was the communication room where the loony toon (the other guy who had time lag) worked, why would anyone else mark his calendar? Seems to me, they would have just left it unmarked from the time he went bonkers and had to be strapped down. That means, it is unlikely that its the same day on the boat, right? Just a thought.

3) Also, you assume it is Christmas Eve 2004 when Penny receives the call. There were decorations, but we don't know what year or day it was for Penny, do we? It could have been any year, right? She was excited to receive the call, but I don't know if she would have been any more or any less excited if it was another time than that mentioned by Desmond. He is the only one that says he would call. She never corrects or affirms what he says about the date. She also asks where he's been, that could suggest he is late.

Maybe, but I'm 80% sure that the show is going to work in the Southeast Asian Tsunami, which happened on December 26th 2004

[Cambridge]

Nice call.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

So i watched last weeks episode later online, so i'm late in bringing stuff up, but Flash backs and flash forwards! so not cool.

Of course we all knew that michael was on the boat.

So we know sun survives and has the baby.

Jin appears to be dead, but the date of death was when the plane crashed. In line with jack's story at the trial that the 6 who make it back were the only survivors of the crash.

It seems like what has to happened is that the 6 get off the island, but we don't know what happens at this point to the rest. Are they all dead ( of course not) It seems like the 6 survivors will have to go back to the island next season. Is jin dead or just still on the island.

So when the 6 get back, it'll be obviosu that someone faked the plane and all those bodies at the bottom of the ocean. what happens then? So many questions!

[Deleted]

Jack's story at the trial was that EIGHT survived. Only six made it back. So obviously somewhere in that lie two people are going to survive the crash only to die on the island. My guess is Claire is one of them (as her boy, Aaron, is one of the Oceanic 6... unless he is somehow explained to the world to be KATE'S son).

That's a big question as to "do they go back? Are the survivors all dead or still on the island?" on Lost boards everywhere. And an intriguing one at that.

Here's the story with the faked plane. The captain of the freighter told Sayid and Desmond last week that they had found the black box for 815, which meant the plane at the bottom of the ocean was obviously a fake, which made it even more imperative to "get Benjamin Linus." Clearly, the captain is toeing the pro-Widmore line, leading folks to believe it was BEN who staged the fake crash.

Then LAST NIGHT (SPOILER ALERT!!!)...





... Tom tells Michael it was WIDMORE who staged the crash. Showed him pictures of empty graves, purchase orders, etc. Convinced Michael Ben might be onto something.

But then back on the freighter Michael is told by Frank he knows the survivors are out there somewhere, that the plane wasn't 815 at the bottom of the ocean, and that Widmore wants to find answers... implying BEN is the crash-stager.

WOW. So much going on! That, plus people are sniping Carl and Danielle... who was that?!?

I'm just glad Alex survived. By the time the show is over and she's matured a little, she might be the hottest character of them all (sorry, Claire).

EDIT: Ben is obviously jealous of his women (Juliette, Alex), so he obviously dislikes Carl somewhat (his "if you're going to sleep with my daughter..." crack from the season opener was EPIC). That said, did he know he was sending Danielle, Alex and Carl to a firing squad?!?

[Boz]

I have to watch last night's episode again. It was too hard to pay attention to that and basketball at the same time. The payoff for Lost (if there ever is one) had better be a damn sight better than the payoff in that damn Belmont-Duke game.

I got the major plot points in the episode, but I missed all of the little goodies.


And Claire, Kate and Alex may be hot, but what comforts me going to bed every night is that Libby was into Hurley.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

claire is the hottest.

[kchoya]

Mar 20, 2008 16:15:45 GMT -5 HoyaSinceBirth said:

Jin appears to be dead, but the date of death was when the plane crashed. In line with jack's story at the trial that the 6 who make it back were the only survivors of the crash.

It seems like what has to happened is that the 6 get off the island, but we don't know what happens at this point to the rest. Are they all dead ( of course not) It seems like the 6 survivors will have to go back to the island next season. Is jin dead or just still on the island.

So when the 6 get back, it'll be obviosu that someone faked the plane and all those bodies at the bottom of the ocean. what happens then? So many questions!

I'm thinking that Jin's date of death is based on the lie that the rest died in the plane crash. But that leads to a much more interesting question, IMHO, that I hadn't really thought about until now - why do the Oceanic 6 have to come with a lie? Why can't they say "the rest of the survivors are still on the island, please rescue them"?

The obvious answer is they feel guilty about leaving them behind and don't want to look like they sold them out (not knowing how the 6 actually get off the island). But I wouldn't think that would happen as they could say they were just going to get help, not abandoning the rest.

That also raises the question, obviously, whether there was some sort of deal made to get off the island. But also, do the 6 get rescued this season and the last two seasons are about their attempt to get back to the island? The preview for the next episode makes it seem like a lot is going to happen this season.

Finally, who did shoot Rousseau and the kid?

ON EDIT: oh yeah, one more thing - not that there's anything wrong with that, but did we really need to see Tom and his "friend?" Kind of ruined the image he had developed (at least in my mind).

[strummer8526]

Haha yeah, Tom and his "friend." I guess it was trying to show how drastically different everyone is on land than what they seem to be on the island. But it was kinda random. I got a chuckle.

I also think it's possible that the 6 come up with the lie b/c the others WANT to stay and not get found, which would explain why Jack wants to get back. It seemed (at least in their first flash forward episodes) like all of the 6 ended up in the exact place they escaped by winding up on the island (Jack was drunk, Kate on trial, Hurley in the crazy house, Sun w/out Jin, Sayid killing people)...but since then, I'm not sure if that holds (Kate beat the charges, Jack seemed sober, Hurley visited Sun). I don't know. It seemed like the Island was some kind of salvation for them, and I think that's why they have the story--no one wants to be found there.

[Deleted]

Remember back to season two... Jack, Kate and Sawyer are in the Hydra station on the neighboring island. Kate and Sawyer are in the bear cages, Jack in the medical facility. Kate is allowed out of her cell to shower, put on clean clothes and dine with Ben.

As she's toweling off in the (what appeared to be a) locker room, Tom comes in to check on her. She says something to the effect of "Like what you see?" To which Tom innocently replies, "You're not my type, Kate."

Truer words never spoken.

strummer - Jack was sober in Hurley's flashforward, which we've been led to believe was before his own (specifically, the "I'm thinking about growing a beard" comment).

kc - I think we've been led to believe folks from the freighter shot Rousseau and Carl. TWO episodes ago, when Sayid and Des first meet the captain, they do so on the deck of the ship. Either Sayid or Desmond ask where the chopper went, to which the captain replied "Lapidus had to run an errand." Or, obviously, something to that effect. LAST episode, we're shown several of the crew practicing their aim on clay pigeons. So from what we've seen, my guess is its those guys. Of course, stranger things have obviously happened.

Also, I don't buy the whole "Ben sent them to die" line. One, those sure sounded like silenced sniper shots (or what Hollywood has led me to believe they sound like). We haven't seen anything like that among the island's arsenal. Two, Ben could easily have gotten Alex away from Carl and Rousseau by other means. As he said to Michael, he doesn't kill innocent people (which, of course, seems far fetched at the very least).

Who knows. Either way, I'm Editeded we have to wait until mid- to late-April to find out what happens next.

Food for thought: I went back and watched the pilot (entitled "The Pilot"). Here's what I'm interested in. In the episode, Jack says he's taken flying lessons. Sayid is obviously knowledgeable about things like this... why, then, didn't any of them realize the plane had turned around to head back to Fiji?

See, when they find the pilot in the nose section of the plane shortly before he's demolished by Smokie Monster, he makes the point of telling Jack, Kate and Charlie the radio went out several (six?) hours into the trip. Nobody could see them, they turned around to head back to Fiji before the crash and were thus a thousand miles off course. Shouldn't at the very least Jack and Sayid have noticed the plane turning around at several thousand feet? SHOULDN'T SOMEONE have noticed?

Methinks the pilot was in on it from the start (also, don't forget Frank was supposed to be the pilot of 815 based on his little flashback in this season's second episode).

[kchoya]

Mar 25, 2008 8:11:52 GMT -5 buffalohoya said:

Food for thought: I went back and watched the pilot (entitled "The Pilot"). Here's what I'm interested in. In the episode, Jack says he's taken flying lessons. Sayid is obviously knowledgeable about things like this... why, then, didn't any of them realize the plane had turned around to head back to Fiji?

See, when they find the pilot in the nose section of the plane shortly before he's demolished by Smokie Monster, he makes the point of telling Jack, Kate and Charlie the radio went out several (six?) hours into the trip. Nobody could see them, they turned around to head back to Fiji before the crash and were thus a thousand miles off course. Shouldn't at the very least Jack and Sayid have noticed the plane turning around at several thousand feet? SHOULDN'T SOMEONE have noticed?

Methinks the pilot was in on it from the start (also, don't forget Frank was supposed to be the pilot of 815 based on his little flashback in this season's second episode).

Not having flown from Sydney to LA, and recognizing that trans-pacific flights don't necessarily fly a straight line, it seems like Fiji would lie on the route from Sydney to LA. So IF the plane was turning around to go back to Fiji, how is it 1000 miles off course.

I agree that someone should have noticed the plane turning - a plane shouldn't turn more than a few degrees when it's going over the ocean. Maybe people were sleeping? drunk?

Also, this Sunda Trench where the intact wreckage was found - in real life that trench is in the Indian Ocean, on the other side of Australia. What would the plane be doing over there?

[Cambridge]

Mar 21, 2008 8:14:12 GMT -5 buffalohoya said:

Jack's story at the trial was that EIGHT survived. Only six made it back. So obviously somewhere in that lie two people are going to survive the crash only to die on the island. My guess is Claire is one of them (as her boy, Aaron, is one of the Oceanic 6... unless he is somehow explained to the world to be KATE'S son).

That's a big question as to "do they go back? Are the survivors all dead or still on the island?" on Lost boards everywhere. And an intriguing one at that.

Here's the story with the faked plane. The captain of the freighter told Sayid and Desmond last week that they had found the black box for 815, which meant the plane at the bottom of the ocean was obviously a fake, which made it even more imperative to "get Benjamin Linus." Clearly, the captain is toeing the pro-Widmore line, leading folks to believe it was BEN who staged the fake crash.

Then LAST NIGHT (SPOILER ALERT!!!)...





... Tom tells Michael it was WIDMORE who staged the crash. Showed him pictures of empty graves, purchase orders, etc. Convinced Michael Ben might be onto something.

But then back on the freighter Michael is told by Frank he knows the survivors are out there somewhere, that the plane wasn't 815 at the bottom of the ocean, and that Widmore wants to find answers... implying BEN is the crash-stager.

WOW. So much going on! That, plus people are sniping Carl and Danielle... who was that?!?

I'm just glad Alex survived. By the time the show is over and she's matured a little, she might be the hottest character of them all (sorry, Claire).

EDIT: Ben is obviously jealous of his women (Juliette, Alex), so he obviously dislikes Carl somewhat (his "if you're going to sleep with my daughter..." crack from the season opener was EPIC). That said, did he know he was sending Danielle, Alex and Carl to a firing squad?!?

He sent Carl to his death. Danielle was a bystander. The look he gave earlier in the episode when he saw Carl put his hand on Danielle's back was the same look he gave right before he sent Juliet's man off to die with the survivors. Cold blooded possessiveness.

[Deleted]

Mar 26, 2008 17:28:07 GMT -5 Cambridge said:

He sent Carl to his death. Danielle was a bystander. The look he gave earlier in the episode when he saw Carl put his hand on Danielle's back was the same look he gave right before he sent Juliet's man off to die with the survivors. Cold blooded possessiveness.

Which is what I initially thought.

But then I realized the shots were coming from some sort of silenced weapon/sniper rifle. Then Alex screams out "I'M BEN'S DAUGHTER!!!"

At that point, I was convinced the shooters were from the freighter. And if that's the case, I can't say for sure Ben knowingly sent them into that quagmire. Who knows, maybe he's finally accepted Alex and Carl as a couple and was actually looking out for them.

Ockham's Razor, my friend. Sometimes with Lost (as it was with Michael being Ben's man on the freighter) the simplest solution is often the best.

[strummer8526]

Mar 27, 2008 8:08:09 GMT -5 buffalohoya said:

Mar 26, 2008 17:28:07 GMT -5 Cambridge said:

He sent Carl to his death. Danielle was a bystander. The look he gave earlier in the episode when he saw Carl put his hand on Danielle's back was the same look he gave right before he sent Juliet's man off to die with the survivors. Cold blooded possessiveness.

Which is what I initially thought.

But then I realized the shots were coming from some sort of silenced weapon/sniper rifle. Then Alex screams out "I'M BEN'S DAUGHTER!!!"

At that point, I was convinced the shooters were from the freighter. And if that's the case, I can't say for sure Ben knowingly sent them into that quagmire. Who knows, maybe he's finally accepted Alex and Carl as a couple and was actually looking out for them.

Ockham's Razor, my friend. Sometimes with Lost (as it was with Michael being Ben's man on the freighter) the simplest solution is often the best.

OR it could be the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with The Saucer People, in conjunction with The Reverse Vampires...

[vcjack]

Minor point now that he is dead but was it Carl or Karl? I've seen it spelled both ways and as someone with an alternate K spelling of a C name this is something I tend to ask about

[Deleted]

Mar 27, 2008 9:11:15 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

OR it could be the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with The Saucer People, in conjunction with The Reverse Vampires...

OR they could all be dead and this is just purgatory...

... oops. I just killed a kitten.

[hoya9797]

This is someone with a lot of time on his hands and a very active mind. Interesting stuff if you are into Lost and trying to figure out what the hell is happening and coming next.

www.timelooptheory.com/the_timeline.htm