thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,324
|
Post by thedragon on Nov 30, 2022 23:09:58 GMT -5
So I guess Riley is now completely out of the rotation? That's smart... Jordan's Dad
|
|
|
Post by BeantownHoya on Nov 30, 2022 23:33:26 GMT -5
So I guess Riley is now completely out of the rotation? That's smart... Jordan's Dad HA well I guess he follows the board closely, because there is no beantownhoya on Twitter...at least that is certainly not my handle on Twitter...
|
|
hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
|
Post by hoyainla on Nov 30, 2022 23:34:41 GMT -5
Is it possible that when a team is up 23 points they might let off the gas a bit? We certainly played better during that run, but as soon as we got back into the game they turned it on and we lost by 14. To me our run was the outlier in this game. We also hit 10 shots in a row which is an outlier that isn’t easily repeated.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 30, 2022 23:56:59 GMT -5
The three Center class was an absolute bust.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 1, 2022 0:02:25 GMT -5
I will start by saying that the Hoyas actually played better than I thought they would. And I am proud of the guys for making a run and getting close after the were down by so much. I am not trying to be negative, but I don't believe in moral victories of this sort, and in total it really wasn't a good performance outside our good run. Some highlights, both good and bad.
- Bad: Our Defense Still Struggled. Texas Tech scored 1.11 points per possession against us, even though Georgetown went on a 23-4 run in the second half! That's not a good number. The bad three point defense continues. Texas Tech, despite that cold streak, shot 41.2% from three (and as hoyainla pointed out, they aren't a stellar three point shooting team). They took 19 threes.
- Bad: Our Offense Struggled. Despite the great 23-4 run and shooting well from two and taking more threes (all good, see below), we still only scored 0.92 points per possession. Texas Tech's defense is just really excellent. The fact that they limited us to 0.92 even with our 23-4 run shows how utterly dominant Texas Tech was on the defensive end overall.
- Bad: Turnovers/Murray's Turnovers. Murray scored 18 points, but turned it over SIX TIMES. This is really bad and essentially killed his pretty good shooting night from an efficiency perspective. We turned it over 18 times overall.
- Bad: Akok's Offense. I really like Akok, but he played 35 minutes and scored 0 points. We just cannot have players that do that. He only took four shots.
- Bad: Long Twos. I don't understand why our guys have an open three, or pump fake from three, and then step in a few feet and shoot a long two. This is awful basketball, and something Ewing should be coaching our guys not to do. He clearly is not. Mozone actually did this a few times tonight, but he made these tough shots, so it didn't hurt us as much as it typically would.
- Good: We Took More Threes. I have been critical of Ewing's teams not taking enough threes. Tonight, we took 26 (versus Texas Tech's 19), and we made 34.6% - not a great number, but it is good - we should be taking more threes (and less long twos - still something bad we did a lot tonight).
- Good: We Shot Twos Well. 53.3%, this was actually pretty good, especially against the Texas Tech defense.
- Good: Mozone! He had a great game.
- Good: Ezewiro. While Ezewiro had a nice game, I am not ready to say he's better than Wahab. Wahab struggles against bigger defenders, and that's what happened tonight. He essentially is a one trick pony on offense and bigger/better defenses take that away.
Otherwise, Spears did have 7 assists despite his hero ball tendencies. But he wasn't very efficient overall. I don't fully understand the logic of letting Anglin come in for a couple of minutes, score a three, and then he sits on the bench.
Overall, the game went better than I expected. It makes me think we might have a chance against South Carolina (also a really bad team), and Siena, at least. We'll see what happens.
|
|
OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
|
Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 1, 2022 2:21:09 GMT -5
The three Center class was an absolute bust. In his freshman year Wahab showed great promise in his rebounding and blocking shots abilities. His offense was limited but seemed to have potential. Unfortunately his rebounding and blocking shots abilities, have digressed and his scoring ability has not blossomed as ee would have hoped when Ewing said he would be the best center in Hoya history .
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,489
|
Post by Elvado on Dec 1, 2022 5:07:39 GMT -5
Don't remember the last time any team of mine lost by 14 and I felt this good about it. And this is the best description of how low the program has sunk. A game was played; Georgetown lost by 14 points; and there is a BRIGHT side. The Ewing Error has done irreparable damage to the brand, the fan base, the University as a whole and the concept of competition as regards Georgetown Basketball. And somehow, be it out of love for Patrick the player or some misguided devotion to the bygone Thompson regime, there remain people who want to stay the course because this “will turn around”. Folks, we hit the iceberg 6 years ago. To quote the great (and I believe late) Micheal Ray Richardson, “the ship be sinkin’”
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,768
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 1, 2022 5:31:31 GMT -5
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,489
|
Post by Elvado on Dec 1, 2022 5:43:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by happyhoya1979 on Dec 1, 2022 7:24:23 GMT -5
So true. When the Otto Porter team that had ranked as high as number 5 in the polls, and had beaten Final Four bound Louisville and Syracuse (twice) faltered in the tournament in embarrassing fashion we lost all respect as a power program. After that debacle, we were never able to compete at a top level.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,568
|
Post by DanMcQ on Dec 1, 2022 7:50:32 GMT -5
Sage advice.
|
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,356
|
Post by calhoya on Dec 1, 2022 8:08:24 GMT -5
At 4-4 I still see a team with significantly more talent than last year, though the record may not reflect it. Some problems can be fixed and some cannot. We have several streaky shooters on this team and while percentages may be decent to good, they do not reflect the scoring droughts both within each game and from game to game. Akok, Heath, Mozone, Spears, and Murray are all capable of scoring in double figures and equally capable of ending up with little to no contribution on the offensive end of the court. The coach just has to find the right combination and who's on for each game and not stubbornly insist on playing a kid who is off his game for whatever reason.
BALL MOVEMENT will create open shots. Hoyas started out slowly last night but while missing some open shots in the first 4-5 minutes they had some of the best ball movement I have seen from this group. It was very enjoyable and led to good looks. Then it changes led by an out of control PG, but by no means limited to him. Suddenly the ball is not moving and we are over-dribbling and trying to force shots or make reckless passes. Coaches can control that by pulling the player and letting him watch someone who will make the play. Apparently this coach thinks that Spears must be on the court for 33+ minutes regardless of the level of his play. Ditto for Murray.
When shots are not falling there is no excuse for not hustling or playing defense. Akok never stops, even though he is at most a limited part of the offense. The same is not true of others and it seems that as the game goes on the defensive effort gets worse as tired legs and maybe disappointment from failing to score has seemingly impacted all the starting guards.
Maybe its time for Ewing to see Wahab for what he is--a potentially valuable part of the offense against certain teams, but someone who should sit when facing a team with athletic posts who can move and score away from the basket. Not questioning Wahab's effort but he is not a strong rebounder against other bigs and he continues to make mistakes like putting the ball on the floor when doubled. I am not falling in love with Bradley yet and still like the offensive potential of Ryan, but it was refreshing to see Ewing sit a player who was not contributing last night and I hope it continues to be a game by game adjustment.
Riley was injured and to me that is a relief because his defensive intensity and non-stop motor could have been valuable last night particularly to stop the two big runs that the Red Raiders made. Anglin will not get better just in practice. Ditto for Bass and Ryan. It's okay to sit the stars coach when they need a rest or are not playing under control.
Terrible teams with a near decade of misery can return to their prior level--it is possible. Watch what seems to be happening under Richard Pitino at unbeaten New Mexico with two road wins at St. Mary's and SMU and a bunch of wins at home against cupcakes. Built around transfers, particularly alpha guards who appear to be reigning in their "my turn" tendencies while still running an uptempo offense. We have the talent--we need consistency, composure and accountability and that can only come from the actions of the guy on the sideline.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,568
|
Post by DanMcQ on Dec 1, 2022 8:11:48 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 1, 2022 8:13:10 GMT -5
While I would love to realize my dream of 50+ more subs in this (or any) game, I would settle for 20 or so. We shall see.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by EtomicB on Dec 1, 2022 8:14:44 GMT -5
So true. When the Otto Porter team that had ranked as high as number 5 in the polls, and that had beaten Final Four bound Louisville and Syracuse (twice) faltered in the tournament in embarrassing fashion we lost all respect as a power program. After that debacle, we were never able to compete at a top level. The program actually won a tourney game in 14-15 helped greatly by a promising freshman class... The future looked good at that point
|
|
rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
|
Post by rhw485 on Dec 1, 2022 8:40:16 GMT -5
Ok I promised I was going to empty the clip given a bunch of Hoya fans couldn't watch. And...here...we...go...: - The runs in the game are obviously what stood out, but to me it's really this. I have never seen a teams defensive effort be so contingent on how their offense is doing. I've played on some pretty good / well coached basketball teams, and have been on some bad ones as well unfortunately. But the one consistent message I've always gotten is defensive effort is the table stakes to be on the court. Shots might fall, they might not. But if you're not busting it on defense, you're on the pine. Doesn't matter if you're the star or not. I just don't think that's the culture that's been established. Ewing yells about the defense, but he doesn't pull anyone for it (as far as I can see). And when you play lackadaisical defense, you're capable of losing to anyone. And when shots are falling and the team is engaged, you can see that they're capable of giving effort and then they go on a huge run. That plus....
- Our transition defense is truly terrible. No ability to find shooters in transition. So when we miss or turn it over, we don't get our defense set, it snowballs. We give up a basket and then have to grind against a set half court defense and it just becomes self fulfilling
- Overall, I really thought our offensive gameplan and preparation was generally solid. For most of the game I saw decent ball movement, we were prepared for where the traps would be, we made skip passes / extra passes and because of that we were able to generate more 3 point looks than we normally do. Of course the turnovers were a problem and this team needs 2nd chance points to survive that weren't there, but I didn't feel like the team was surprised by what they saw. Primo did a good job snaking some side ball screens to get into the middle of the court and generate looks for his teammates etc.
- And on Primo...I almost feel like it's Dante Harris redux. The MO of the fanbase is to blame the centers for the defense and the point guards for the offense. Last year Primo had a 92.2 O Rating on 25% usage, this year he's at 102 with 25% usage. What exactly were we expecting here? He's basically playing the whole game (will get to that shortly) and has the ball in his hands. He's actually been short changed on some assists when we miss bunnies or open shots or get fouled. Yes there's some hero ball moments that we don't need. But honestly I don't know what we were expecting.
- On Primo's minutes, screaming bench Primo and play Anglin is just missing the point entirely. There is not a backup point guard on this roster. Anglin is not a PG, Murray is not, Heath is not (which is probably the most disappointing). When Primo gets his 2 minutes of rest, its a disaster out there. Murray has to walk the ball up, and we can't get into our offense. Last night Murray walked the ball up, dribbled himself into a side pick and roll, and then dribbled it out of bounds. Primo comes back in immediately. You even saw Anglin play a little with Primo last night because Ewing realized it. The answer is probably that Anglin needs to eat into Heath's minutes, but screaming about Primo misses the point. We can bemoan Dante not being here but it is what it is and the majority of the fanbase trashed him anyway (I had to defend Dante too many times last year to count)
- Ewing realized what Turgeon quickly figured out with Q last year....it just doesn't work. He needs to be truly dominant on the offensive end to justify what you have to do defensively on the court. And he either struggles against guys his size who single him up, or he can't execute against a double. He's not a lob threat as a rim runner. He honestly made some ok passes out of the double last night, where he would've been credited with a hockey assist, but there's just too many turnovers. And the defense is hopeless. I've advocated for drop coverage but honestly it doesnt matter. He doesn't do enough to make the ball handler hesitate. Any empty side ball screen is a bucket.
- Mozone had his best offensive game, but he's not a power forward at this level. It was great to see him knock down shots, honestly his slump was unsustainable for someone who hit 38% on a large number of attempts even at lower levels. And I haven't had any issues with the general quality of his attempts, they've been catch and shoot in rhythm type shots. They were bound to fall. But the defense just doesnt work with him at the 4 (regardless of who he's paired with). If Akok is forced to help and try to block a shot or switch on the perimeter, even if the first shot misses they're getting the offensive rebound. And Mozone wasn't really on the court for the big run because....
- Brad E. paired with Akok changed the entire complexion of the game. The lineup that stormed back was really Primo / Murray / Heath / Akok / Brad. With Brad on the court, we at least had a chance to compete on the glass on missed shots. Ewing was also comfortable letting Brad hard hedge screens. While I've criticized that tactic in the past, it did seem to work last night. I'm not sure it's sustainable but Brad was able to get out there and recover and everyone else mostly stayed home. He had a monster block and brought an energy level the team needed. For those claiming the run was because TT took their foot off the glass, I'm pretty sure you dont let a 21 point lead get to within 1 point because you're bored. That lineup had something other lineups lacked, and it worked. Is it sustainable? Why are we only trying Brad out in game 8? No idea, but they definitely found out something.
- THIS GAME, IN THIS ENVIRONMENT, IS WHY YOU SHOULD SCHEDULE BETTER. And Ewing didnt even schedule this game. But the team learned way more about itself last night than it had in the first 7. They were punched in the mouth, in a hostile environment, and had to decide whether they were going to turtle or fight. And they punched back. They had issues down the stretch and I'll hit minutes distribution as my last point, but if you play more games like this you figure out what you have much quicker than trying to just pad the schedule with wins
- This roster just isn't constructed well enough. You can criticize Primo minutes, but I dont think there's a viable alternative. Same thing with Akok, there's nobody on the bench who can do half of what he's doing to keep us afloat on defense. And Murray showed last night why he's regarded as the best overall player. So I just don't know what Ewing can practically do with the minutes (and yes of course he built the roster). But those three are going to simply have to play heavy minutes, Riley was out last night so maybe he can help save Murray a few, but otherwise you have Riley / Mozone / Bristol with too similar of a skillset and not enough depth at PF / C and PG. And Heath not being able to play PG makes him feel a little duplicative with Murray. The Primo / Heath / Murray combo just doesn't feel great or effective. So I don't know where you go from here.
Ok thats officially my longest post ever. Hoya Saxa
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 1, 2022 9:05:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the thoughts. I still think we are better with Murray, Spears, and Heath playing 5-6 less minutes each. But that will not happen.
|
|
bills
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 236
|
Post by bills on Dec 1, 2022 9:06:34 GMT -5
Excellent post, thank you. I would add that there are some signs this team is learning it’s strengths and weaknesses and showing some growth. If they can shorten the stretches where the other team makes a run with better defensive intensity and lengthen the runs they have with great ball movement and open shots, they could have some good wins against good Big East teams. Part of that growth and learning process I needs to be Ewing finding a rotation that does not have key players either exhausted or on the bench because they fouled out at the end of close games.
|
|
bills
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 236
|
Post by bills on Dec 1, 2022 9:10:32 GMT -5
If Ezewiro isn't starting at Center next game then we're not watching the same sport. The issue with Ezewiro is that he fouls way too often. Not last night and hopefully that is an indication of his growth as a player. But don’t be surprised if he fouls out in just 10 minutes on the floor in a game.
|
|
|
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 1, 2022 9:30:32 GMT -5
Excellent post, thank you. I would add that there are some signs this team is learning it’s strengths and weaknesses and showing some growth. If they can shorten the stretches where the other team makes a run with better defensive intensity and lengthen the runs they have with great ball movement and open shots, they could have some good wins against good Big East teams. Part of that growth and learning process I needs to be Ewing finding a rotation that does not have key players either exhausted or on the bench because they fouled out at the end of close games. Bills, let's say they get this all right and figure out the ball movement, hero ball, 3 point D, etc. If we enter BE play at 6-5 with wins over Cuse & South Carolina (we are definitely losing to Siena), we are at best a 7 to 8 win team against big east competition IF WE IMPROVE. Give us 9 for argument sake and we are at 15-16. We aren't a tourney team or NIT team. Follow me now. We then proceed to lose a couple kids to transfer or ridiculous pro ambitions which always happens and we lose Mozone & Wahab as they are listed as grad transfers & a senior. We bring back some combination of Heath, Spears, Akok, Ezewiro, Bass, Anglin, Bristol, Riley, Mutombo & Murray (minus 2 of these guys I am sure). And we have the same staff. Are we really supposed to think that 23/24 is going to be markedly better? At what point do you cut bait on the guys who won't be here next year in interest of roster development? We didn't do it last year and that resulted in us bringing back no one who is contributing to the roster this year in a meaningful way right now. I feel like we are on a Tiger Death March waiting out the end of a contract rather then truly building towards the future. Patrick is already 60. So we have him on contract to age 63. Kevin Nickleberry is 58. We have no coach in waiting nor do we have a distinguished culture or development process in place. What are we even doing?
|
|