vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,326
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Post by vv83 on Jan 17, 2017 10:40:28 GMT -5
I recognize that highlighting any individual flaw in our team seems pointless given the poor overall level of play, but I have never seen a team that gets beat so often by a player driving from the baseline to the basket for an easy layup, without so much as a hand on him. Part of this is slow feet (Hayes and Govan), but aren't they taught to cut off the baseline drive? My seats are in section 109, right along the baseline we defend to start the game. the ease with which we continually gave up the baseline last night was astounding. I was shouting "defend the baseline" repeatedly, since it did not seem that the coaches had shared this bit of defensive wisdom with our guys. When one defender finally did take away the baseline, the Provi guy drove the middle, met a couple of other defenders, and missed a tough contested shot. But then right back to giving up the baseline. Ugh. |
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,326
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Post by vv83 on Jan 17, 2017 10:43:21 GMT -5
A lot of those shots were open and just missed. I would agree that the offense was less than ideal during that period,but gosh, if we hit just a couple of wide open shots the game is at least close. Coach did not take any shots last night. Team has to make more of those. But, its 16 possessions..... 3 turnovers 1 wild shot 4 3 point attempts by guys that shouldn't have been shooting them In modern basketball, you are in big trouble if you have more than one guy on the court who "should not be shooting" wide open 3s. Providence was playing 5 feet off Mulmore, Mosely, Campbell - begging them to shoot 3s. Nobody can play any kind of effective offense in that situation if you don't have guys who can consistently hit these kind of shots. This is not to excuse the coaching, but we have to be honest - this team has serious talent issues as well a serious coaching issues. Of course, the talent acquisition is on the coach as well, so no break for JTIII here. Just a recognition that the program's problems cover every aspect, not just the coaching teaching/strategy. |
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,991
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 17, 2017 12:12:26 GMT -5
Yes; he has made those and has a decent shot. he is 1-9 from 3 this year. 1-11 in his college career, so yes he has made ONEany shot from agau outside of the paint is a bad shot. |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 17, 2017 12:29:57 GMT -5
Agree to disagree; I hope that he keeps firing when open.
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boxout05
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 572
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Post by boxout05 on Jan 17, 2017 12:31:55 GMT -5
It wasn't a defense. I was just saying it could easily be worse than it's been - and that's true if JT3 is the coach or someone else. Yes, things are down but we have a long way until we are at DePaul's level. We made the NCAA tournament two seasons ago. When is the last time DePaul made it? Like I said this isn't a defense. Obviously the comparison for the program shouldn't be DePaul but until we've been awful under multiple coaches for a decade and not even sniffing the NCAA tournament, don't tell me it can't be worse. And Esherick made the NCAA tournament once ever. His record was not horrible because he didn't schedule hard OOC games but his last two seasons were awful. I can't believe I'm being put in a position to defend Esh, but he didn't have any losses that would rival any of JT3's worst losses. Northeastern, Radford, Asheville, Arkansas State, the first round humiliations. And I'm sure I'm leaving some out. Come down off the wall. The battle is over. Judging by their performance last night, even the players know it. Not that it matters, but Esh did hand St. John's their first conference victory when they had about 6 scholarship players and a handful of walk-ons because everyone else got suspended for that strip-club debacle. |
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,474 
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Post by beenaround on Jan 17, 2017 13:36:57 GMT -5
Agree to disagree; I hope that he keeps firing when open. Hoyalove..I do not mean this in a sarcastic way at all, so please do not take it so..we all love the team dearly or would not be spending time on this message board. But I wish I had your unbridled love and enthusiasm for the state of Hoya hoops. It would make my life during the season so much better. However, most of us can't simply clap and smile when something we love is so obviously damaged...and there appears to be absolutely no urgency whatsoever for the administration to remedy it. Again...if I could somehow will myself to your state of mind regarding the team..I would not complain! |
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,490
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Post by Highsmith on Jan 17, 2017 15:22:31 GMT -5
A lot of those shots were open and just missed. I would agree that the offense was less than ideal during that period,but gosh, if we hit just a couple of wide open shots the game is at least close. Coach did not take any shots last night. Team has to make more of those. The open shots were mostly open because Providence was leaving our guys who can't shoot and letting them fire away! Pryor, Peak, Govan and Derrickson were rarely wide open last night.....coincidentally, they are our only guys who can consistently make 3's. I'm really sick of the "coach didn't do this/didn't do that" argument. He put this team together....he works with them every day and tells them what offense to run. When we have multiple games over time where our offense is stagnant and results in poor shooters taking poor shots. That's on him. And when the shots aren't falling, the coach draws up plays to put his players in position to get easier baskets and/or get to the line. Playing a defense that doesn't result in the other team's best shooters being wide open might help as well. |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 17, 2017 15:30:20 GMT -5
Agree to disagree; I hope that he keeps firing when open. Hoyalove..I do not mean this in a sarcastic way at all, so please do not take it so..we all love the team dearly or would not be spending time on this message board. But I wish I had your unbridled love and enthusiasm for the state of Hoya hoops. It would make my life during the season so much better. However, most of us can't simply clap and smile when something we love is so obviously damaged...and there appears to be absolutely no urgency whatsoever for the administration to remedy it. Again...if I could somehow will myself to your state of mind regarding the team..I would not complain! No offense taken! Go Hoyas! |
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,281
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Post by prhoya on Jan 17, 2017 17:56:26 GMT -5
But, its 16 possessions..... 3 turnovers 1 wild shot 4 3 point attempts by guys that shouldn't have been shooting them In modern basketball, you are in big trouble if you have more than one guy on the court who "should not be shooting" wide open 3s. Providence was playing 5 feet off Mulmore, Mosely, Campbell - begging them to shoot 3s. Nobody can play any kind of effective offense in that situation if you don't have guys who can consistently hit these kind of shots. This is not to excuse the coaching, but we have to be honest - this team has serious talent issues as well a serious coaching issues. Of course, the talent acquisition is on the coach as well, so no break for JTIII here. Just a recognition that the program's problems cover every aspect, not just the coaching teaching/strategy. Rinse and repeat. Same problem we have every year. When was the last time we got to play 5-v-5? Remember the Markel years of 2-v-5? How about last year's DSR 2-v-5? It's on recruiting and on coaching, and also on the players. Last night they looked like they didn't have the legs to shoot and even JT3 mentioned we were slow or something during the post-conference. these players need to be ready to play physically and mentally on one day's rest. |
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 17, 2017 19:37:26 GMT -5
One positive: we are expected to complete our fifth straight day without a loss this Saturday.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 17, 2017 20:16:42 GMT -5
I recognize that highlighting any individual flaw in our team seems pointless given the poor overall level of play, but I have never seen a team that gets beat so often by a player driving from the baseline to the basket for an easy layup, without so much as a hand on him. Part of this is slow feet (Hayes and Govan), but aren't they taught to cut off the baseline drive? My seats are in section 109, right along the baseline we defend to start the game. the ease with which we continually gave up the baseline last night was astounding. I was shouting "defend the baseline" repeatedly, since it did not seem that the coaches had shared this bit of defensive wisdom with our guys. When one defender finally did take away the baseline, the Provi guy drove the middle, met a couple of other defenders, and missed a tough contested shot. But then right back to giving up the baseline. Ugh. I too was amazed at how easy the Providence players were able to drive the baseline to the hoop. The technique of letting the baseline be a second defender must be the strategy taught, but that requires a defender with quick feet or who plays off a bit to make sure he has an angle to cut off the driver. There are no quick a foot Hoyas, even Kaleb Johnson, whose most recruitable asset was his ability to defend can't keep players in front of him. The offensive man gets a step on him before he moves his feet. This technique of letting the baseline be a second defender, if being taught, worked when you had forwards like Green or Ewing Jr. who had quick defensive steps, but not now. |
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,200
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 17, 2017 21:31:37 GMT -5
My seats are in section 109, right along the baseline we defend to start the game. the ease with which we continually gave up the baseline last night was astounding. I was shouting "defend the baseline" repeatedly, since it did not seem that the coaches had shared this bit of defensive wisdom with our guys. When one defender finally did take away the baseline, the Provi guy drove the middle, met a couple of other defenders, and missed a tough contested shot. But then right back to giving up the baseline. Ugh. I too was amazed at how easy the Providence players were able to drive the baseline to the hoop. The technique of letting the baseline be a second defender must be the strategy taught, but that requires a defender with quick feet or who plays off a bit to make sure he has an angle to cut off the driver. There are no quick a foot Hoyas, even Kaleb Johnson, whose most recruitable asset was his ability to defend can't keep players in front of him. The offensive man gets a step on him before he moves his feet. This technique of letting the baseline be a second defender, if being taught, worked when you had forwards like Green or Ewing Jr. who had quick defensive steps, but not now. Yes, that was a major dreadful among many other dreadfuls. It looked like the parting of the Red Sea, only the Providence players never got washed away. |
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,326
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Post by vv83 on Jan 17, 2017 23:47:51 GMT -5
My seats are in section 109, right along the baseline we defend to start the game. the ease with which we continually gave up the baseline last night was astounding. I was shouting "defend the baseline" repeatedly, since it did not seem that the coaches had shared this bit of defensive wisdom with our guys. When one defender finally did take away the baseline, the Provi guy drove the middle, met a couple of other defenders, and missed a tough contested shot. But then right back to giving up the baseline. Ugh. I too was amazed at how easy the Providence players were able to drive the baseline to the hoop. The technique of letting the baseline be a second defender must be the strategy taught, but that requires a defender with quick feet or who plays off a bit to make sure he has an angle to cut off the driver. There are no quick a foot Hoyas, even Kaleb Johnson, whose most recruitable asset was his ability to defend can't keep players in front of him. The offensive man gets a step on him before he moves his feet. This technique of letting the baseline be a second defender, if being taught, worked when you had forwards like Green or Ewing Jr. who had quick defensive steps, but not now. I don't know a lot about detailed basketball strategy, so I have been trying to do some reading lately to educate myself about why we struggle so much defensively. I have focused on Pack Line defensive stuff. One of the bedrock tenets of the Pack Line D is to never, ever give up the baseline. A Pack Line coach is supposed to immediately bench any defender who lets his man go baseline, to make sure this message gets across. The idea is that you give up the middle rather than the baseline, because there are other defenders in the middle ready to help, while you don't have help defenders in good help position if a guy goes baseline. Our defense may well teach different principles - but after watching us get killed by baseline penetration in recent years, I think I am pretty ready to accept "never give up the baseline" as a solid foundation idea for a team defensive scheme! On another note - there are a number of "immediate benching" offenses in the Dick Bennett (father of UVA coach Tony) Pack Line handbook: failing to close out effectively (e.g. no "fly by" close outs, no soft/lazy close outs) when your man gets the ball, failure to recover back inside the pack line immediately when your man gives the ball up, failure to full out sprint to half court when the other team secures a defensive board (not run, but full out sprint. only after you hit half court are you supposed to turn and find a man to cover in transition), etc. Unfortunately, we would not have 5 players to put on the court if we benched guys every time they commit one of these offenses! |
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