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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 3, 2017 12:31:05 GMT -5
And gen did it at least 8 times to Campbell, how is that your evidence? Sumner is a future pro. Mulmore pretty much stays in front of his man and makes his opponent change directions! PLAY HIM FULL TIME AT THE POINT!!! Didn't stay in front of Sumner at all. I know Sumner is very good, so recognize you can't stick with him, stay back and make him hit some shots.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 3, 2017 12:39:13 GMT -5
Mulmore pretty much stays in front of his man and makes his opponent change directions! PLAY HIM FULL TIME AT THE POINT!!! Didn't stay in front of Sumner at all. I know Sumner is very good, so recognize you can't stick with him, stay back and make him hit some shots. I think you're talking about Tre mostly. Anyways DEFENSE is a team game. Guards should not be letting opponent's guard's penetrate into the paint.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 3, 2017 12:47:07 GMT -5
No I was talking about Mulmore, Sumner went by him for layups (or assists on layups when a big left his man to stop him) at least 4 times Saturday. Although Tre has certainly let had the same problem repeatedly.
Hey, I like Jonathan on offense. I just need to see more from him on the other end.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 3, 2017 13:17:49 GMT -5
No I was talking about Mulmore, Sumner went by him for layups (or assists on layups when a big left his man to stop him) at least 4 times Saturday. Although Tre has certainly let had the same problem repeatedly. Hey, I like Jonathan on offense. I just need to see more from him on the other end. You notice it because Mulmore actually steps up to the plate and tries to play defense. Tre won't meaningfully engage the offensive player on that end because he is afraid of being embarrassed. I don't understand how that flies at a high major...
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 3, 2017 13:58:23 GMT -5
Mulmore pretty much stays in front of his man and makes his opponent change directions! PLAY HIM FULL TIME AT THE POINT!!! Didn't stay in front of Sumner at all. I know Sumner is very good, so recognize you can't stick with him, stay back and make him hit some shots. Count me among those that thinks mulmore brings much more to the table defensively than Tre. Is he great? No. But I do think he tries his ass off and that alone puts him ahead of Tre on that end. I mean, you're asking a kid who has played all of 14 games at the high major level to adequately defend a tall, fast pg who will likely be all conference and potentially a future NBAer. I thought he at least gave it all he had. Tre has had 2.5 years to figure out how to be even average on D and he's continually been atrocious. I have no problem putting mulmore out there and letting him get his feet wet trying to defend one of the best in the BE. To me it also begs the question, why isn't the staff recognizing what you're asking of the player here and telling mulmore to back off and let sumner shoot from distance? Why are you acting like this is something he and only he can recognize and adjust to? Either he's ignoring the coaches telling him this (which would signal a bigger issue and I find hard to believe) or the coaches aren't conveying it to their PG (much more likely). To me the failure falls on the staff in this instance.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 3, 2017 14:05:36 GMT -5
Plus/minus for Saturday's game, calculated from the play-by-play posted at guhoyas.com:
Johnson +3, Agau +1, Hayes even, Pryor even, Mulmore -1, Derrickson -4, Peak -5, Govan -6, Mosely -6, Campbell -7, Cameron DNP/coach's decision, Hines DNP/coach's decision, Mourning DNP/coach's decision, Muresan DNP/coach's decision.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,904
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 3, 2017 14:37:57 GMT -5
The fouls were 28-23 Glide not 38 to 23.. I do agree that JT3 needs to pick a 2nd guard and play him the majority of minutes(25+), if he fails consistently over a few games give the next guy a shot but stop with this "hot hand" method.. I don't feel it's productive to have Mosely, Mulmore & Campbell looking over their shoulders whenever they make the inevitable mistake.. Jagan had a bad turnover a minute into the game & JT3 had Tre at the scorers table.. Why bother to start him if his rope was that short? According to ESPN I was correct. Xavier went to the free throw line 38 times, Hoyas only 23??? I repeat ONLY 23 times. It's not like the Hoyas weren't attacking the basket. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400919661Mulmore at the point full time. Campbell and Mosely at the 2. Slide Tre over to the 2. He slows down the offense. He doesn't attack the basket. Mosely can play both the 1 and 2 he should be Mulmore's back up! My bad Glide, I thought you meant fouls called not foul shots..
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 3, 2017 15:12:10 GMT -5
Didn't stay in front of Sumner at all. I know Sumner is very good, so recognize you can't stick with him, stay back and make him hit some shots. Count me among those that thinks mulmore brings much more to the table defensively than Tre. Is he great? No. But I do think he tries his ass off and that alone puts him ahead of Tre on that end. I mean, you're asking a kid who has played all of 14 games at the high major level to adequately defend a tall, fast pg who will likely be all conference and potentially a future NBAer. I thought he at least gave it all he had. Tre has had 2.5 years to figure out how to be even average on D and he's continually been atrocious. I have no problem putting mulmore out there and letting him get his feet wet trying to defend one of the best in the BE. To me it also begs the question, why isn't the staff recognizing what you're asking of the player here and telling mulmore to back off and let sumner shoot from distance? Why are you acting like this is something he and only he can recognize and adjust to? Either he's ignoring the coaches telling him this (which would signal a bigger issue and I find hard to believe) or the coaches aren't conveying it to their PG (much more likely). To me the failure falls on the staff in this instance. How do we know what he was told? He fouled one time almost 40 feet from the basket, bumping a guy who was dribbling laterally, when we were neither pressing nor trapping. Does the staff need to tell him not to do that? The thing that gets me right now is that Mulmore SHOULD be a better defender than Tre; he is quicker, which should be half the battle. But at this point he is as much of a liability as Tre - which should not be the case. I have to think the staff is working with him on technique and fundamentals, hopefully he just needs more time. But again, with a JUCO transfer the window is only half as long for him to improve.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 3, 2017 15:49:11 GMT -5
According to ESPN I was correct. Xavier went to the free throw line 38 times, Hoyas only 23??? I repeat ONLY 23 times. It's not like the Hoyas weren't attacking the basket. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400919661Mulmore at the point full time. Campbell and Mosely at the 2. Slide Tre over to the 2. He slows down the offense. He doesn't attack the basket. Mosely can play both the 1 and 2 he should be Mulmore's back up! My bad Glide, I thought you meant fouls called not foul shots.. It's okay, no one is perfect, but man, we got cheated by the refs. lol
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 3, 2017 16:02:58 GMT -5
My bad Glide, I thought you meant fouls called not foul shots.. It's okay, no one is perfect, but man, we got cheated by the refs. lol Didn't think we had much to gripe about on the defensive end in the second half as far as calls were concerned, but I definitely thought we got hosed a few times driving to the basket ourselves and not drawing whistles. In a close game at home where that could've potentially made the difference (not saying it definitely would've given how we shot from the line), I'd expect better. Serious question Glide: do you think III is doing enough to work the officials during games? Personally I would've gotten a T going after the refs on that illegal screen set by Marquette on Wed. night that led to the 3 FTs late by Rousey which essentially killed any momentum we had and iced the game. I've been on record here for a long time saying I don't think he does enough to protect our guys from questionable officiating. How do you see it?
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 3, 2017 19:51:49 GMT -5
Count me among those that thinks mulmore brings much more to the table defensively than Tre. Is he great? No. But I do think he tries his ass off and that alone puts him ahead of Tre on that end. I mean, you're asking a kid who has played all of 14 games at the high major level to adequately defend a tall, fast pg who will likely be all conference and potentially a future NBAer. I thought he at least gave it all he had. Tre has had 2.5 years to figure out how to be even average on D and he's continually been atrocious. I have no problem putting mulmore out there and letting him get his feet wet trying to defend one of the best in the BE. To me it also begs the question, why isn't the staff recognizing what you're asking of the player here and telling mulmore to back off and let sumner shoot from distance? Why are you acting like this is something he and only he can recognize and adjust to? Either he's ignoring the coaches telling him this (which would signal a bigger issue and I find hard to believe) or the coaches aren't conveying it to their PG (much more likely). To me the failure falls on the staff in this instance. How do we know what he was told? He fouled one time almost 40 feet from the basket, bumping a guy who was dribbling laterally, when we were neither pressing nor trapping. Does the staff need to tell him not to do that? The thing that gets me right now is that Mulmore SHOULD be a better defender than Tre; he is quicker, which should be half the battle. But at this point he is as much of a liability as Tre - which should not be the case. I have to think the staff is working with him on technique and fundamentals, hopefully he just needs more time. But again, with a JUCO transfer the window is only half as long for him to improve. We have no idea what he was told obviously. All I'm saying is I'd rather put the blame on the staff for not recognizing and making the adjustment than a kid who has only played half a season of high major basketball. Also, I respectfully disagree that Mulmore isn't already a better defender than Tre. Tre is quite possibly the worst defender to put on a Hoya uniform under JTIII. Like I said, at least Jon tries his ass off out there to stay in front of his man. He'll get there I think. He's had 14 games to acclimate. Tre has had 2.5 years. He's not gonna get any better.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 3, 2017 21:06:58 GMT -5
How do we know what he was told? He fouled one time almost 40 feet from the basket, bumping a guy who was dribbling laterally, when we were neither pressing nor trapping. Does the staff need to tell him not to do that? The thing that gets me right now is that Mulmore SHOULD be a better defender than Tre; he is quicker, which should be half the battle. But at this point he is as much of a liability as Tre - which should not be the case. I have to think the staff is working with him on technique and fundamentals, hopefully he just needs more time. But again, with a JUCO transfer the window is only half as long for him to improve. We have no idea what he was told obviously. All I'm saying is I'd rather put the blame on the staff for not recognizing and making the adjustment than a kid who has only played half a season of high major basketball. Also, I respectfully disagree that Mulmore isn't already a better defender than Tre. Tre is quite possibly the worst defender to put on a Hoya uniform under JTIII. Like I said, at least Jon tries his ass off out there to stay in front of his man. He'll get there I think. He's had 14 games to acclimate. Tre has had 2.5 years. He's not gonna get any better. Exactly, you can literally tell that he's learning on every play. Tre has never demonstrated that he has learnt anything.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 4, 2017 15:12:30 GMT -5
It's okay, no one is perfect, but man, we got cheated by the refs. lol Didn't think we had much to gripe about on the defensive end in the second half as far as calls were concerned, but I definitely thought we got hosed a few times driving to the basket ourselves and not drawing whistles. In a close game at home where that could've potentially made the difference (not saying it definitely would've given how we shot from the line), I'd expect better. Serious question Glide: do you think III is doing enough to work the officials during games? Personally I would've gotten a T going after the refs on that illegal screen set by Marquette on Wed. night that led to the 3 FTs late by Rousey which essentially killed any momentum we had and iced the game. I've been on record here for a long time saying I don't think he does enough to protect our guys from questionable officiating. How do you see it? On a serious note I think he should be working the officials more. He does get on the refs I can say this because I sat behind the bench a few years ago. We have to remember what the officials said back in the day about his dad and Gtown to never let them have it their way or something to that nature, so I think he draws a line somewhere I don't know I'm just thinking out loud. I hear you. What killed us in the Marquette game when he came in was Campbell. He'd dribble in one place 5 to 6 times. Wouldn't attack the basket. I do like him on the ball though when our opponent's pg is bringing the ball up.
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