Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,485
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 31, 2016 14:25:54 GMT -5
I blame the loss totally on the Russians hacking the refs' brains. At least we held Bluiett to 0-10.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 31, 2016 14:27:32 GMT -5
I have seen numerous times when Thompson is in the ref's ear and you can tell he is steamed - but sometimes I think you have to force a technical at home to get the crowd, and your players, fired up. College refs are bad at their jobs. They officiate too many games and of varying skill levels. That's just how it is. The problem is our reputation. If you're an official right now and I told you either the Hoya rotation was late or it wasn't which would you believe? What about if I said they were out of position on a rebound or weren't, which is more likely? If you claw and scrape and grind for minutes, halves, games, and seasons that's how you get the benefit of the doubt. If your team can't play focused basketball for 40 minutes, you won't get calls. That's where we are right now.
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bamahoya11 on Dec 31, 2016 14:32:21 GMT -5
Just got back from the game. Haven't read through the full game thread, but this was an extremely frustrating loss. We had Xavier on the ropes and couldn't finish them off. This game was really lost from about the 9 minute mark to the 4 minute mark in the second half. With Pryor and sometimes Derrickson on the bench with four fouls, the Xavier defense was freed up to really focus on shutting down Peak. We couldn't get rolling on offense, and Xavier really got going. I blame a lot of this loss on preparation; it was clear in the second half that Xavier was better-prepared, more poised, and extremely focused. You could feel the momentum change in the gym as Xavier got down to business and really took over the game. By the final media break, they had a solid lead and had backed us into the corner. Our team, whatever you may say for it, really lacks the same winning instinct.
What's frustrating to me is that I no longer truly expect to win these games. These are the types of games that Georgetown should win at home. Xavier is a good team, but it seemed to me like a pretty even matchup. Xavier dominated with Macura and Sumner, and we dominated with Peak and Pryor. It's really frustrating that Govan cannot play better against good league competition. He was not good at all today. Bradley was a bright spot -- he had one of his better games of the season. The guard play was also really, really frustrating, though. Frankly, I thought Mulmore looked the best running the offense. Jagan can't compete with Big East guards, and Tre struggled as well. Tre also missed several wide open shots.
All in all, we played better than the Marquette game, but the same mistakes as the Marquette game -- ill-timed turnovers, lackluster effort on defense, inability to finish up defensive possessions on one shot (this also really contributed to our foul issues) -- cost us this game.
Now to put this game out of my mind so that I can watch the Alabama-Washington playoff game.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Dec 31, 2016 14:33:18 GMT -5
I have seen numerous times when Thompson is in the ref's ear and you can tell he is steamed - but sometimes I think you have to force a technical at home to get the crowd, and your players, fired up. College refs are bad at their jobs. They officiate too many games and of varying skill levels. That's just how it is. The problem is our reputation. If you're an official right now and I told you either the Hoya rotation was late or it wasn't which would you believe? What about if I said they were out of position on a rebound or weren't, which is more likely? If you claw and scrape and grind for minutes, halves, games, and seasons that's how you get the benefit of the doubt. If your team can't play focused basketball for 40 minutes, you won't get calls. That's where we are right now. That's absurd. You don't call phatom fouls on one end and maximum contact on the other because of reputation. III needs to start picking up technical fouls because it is the fourth season of this nonsense.
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 31, 2016 14:33:28 GMT -5
Really? I had the opposite reaction. I saw Xavier as being able to do whatever it wanted, whenever it needed to. I really thought they looked pretty weak. They struggled to finish, we forced them into bad shots and they gave us a lot of good looks offensively. Outside of (what I consider) a very favorable whistle, I thought we were clearly better and not even playing our best. They really struggled to guard us without fouling, unfortunately they were allowed to. We still should have won despite the officiating and that is what is most frustrating, as we gave away too much at the line, missed layups and with silly turnovers. Agree.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 31, 2016 14:36:44 GMT -5
We lost this game because of defense, fouls and free throws. We shot 56.4% on twos, they shot 42.5%. We shot 35.3% from three, they shot 31.6%.
The difference was fouls and free throws. We were 14-23, and they were 29-38 on FTs. They scored 15 more points than us on free throws, and had 15 more shots than we did. Fifteen points!
Let me repeat that: they scored 15 more points than us on free throws. That's like starting the game 0-15, and expecting to win. People will try to find all sorts of reasons, blame specific players, blame the offense, etc. but ultimately if you cannot defend without fouling you're not going to win.
Some say we looked like the better team. That's because when we weren't fouling like mad, we were the better team. But that wasn't good enough to win.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Dec 31, 2016 14:38:56 GMT -5
We lost this game because of defense, fouls and free throws. We shot 56.4% on twos, they shot 42.5%. We shot 35.3% from three, they shot 31.6%. The difference was fouls and free throws. We were 14-23, and they were 29-38 on FTs. They scored 15 more points than us on free throws, and had 15 more shots than we did. Fifteen points! Let me repeat that: they scored 15 more points than us on free throws. That's like starting the game 0-15, and expecting to win. People will try to find all sorts of reasons, blame specific players, blame the offense, etc. but ultimately if you cannot defend without fouling you're not going to win. Some say we looked like the better team. That's because when we weren't fouling like mad, we were the better team. But that wasn't good enough to win. We weren't fouling like mad and we weren't the team fouling the most. That right there is the problem.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 14:39:04 GMT -5
Big old middle finger to the Verizon Center, which continues to not open enough doors to accommodate even our meager crowds. One of my buddies arrived at 10:50 and didn't get to his seat until 11:15. None of the doors across from Clydes were open. WTF.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 31, 2016 14:40:50 GMT -5
We lost this game because of defense, fouls and free throws. We shot 56.4% on twos, they shot 42.5%. We shot 35.3% from three, they shot 31.6%. The difference was fouls and free throws. We were 14-23, and they were 29-38 on FTs. They scored 15 more points than us on free throws, and had 15 more shots than we did. Fifteen points! Let me repeat that: they scored 15 more points than us on free throws. That's like starting the game 0-15, and expecting to win. People will try to find all sorts of reasons, blame specific players, blame the offense, etc. but ultimately if you cannot defend without fouling you're not going to win. Some say we looked like the better team. That's because when we weren't fouling like mad, we were the better team. But that wasn't good enough to win. We weren't fouling like mad and we weren't the team fouling the most. That right there is the problem. I am not saying the officiating was fair, because I think the game was officiated too tightly on both ends, but you have to adjust to that and we did not. We also didn't make enough of our own free throws, which hasn't really been a problem up to now, but it was today. And it's a huge problem when Pryor is forced to sit for an extended period of time because he's got 4 fouls.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,605
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 31, 2016 14:46:05 GMT -5
We weren't fouling like mad and we weren't the team fouling the most. That right there is the problem. I am not saying the officiating was fair, because I think the game was officiated too tightly on both ends, but you have to adjust to that and we did not. Agree mostly, but when your center is called for an over the back foul on offense in the lane that was called completely the opposite way the play immediately before on the other end and when your guard/forward has solid defensive position, straight up with his arms straight up and Sumner launches into him and draws a foul, how do you adjust? Just say Ole and watch as the guy goes by? Pryor had 4 because Ed Corbett, who was under the basket 3 feet away from the play looking directly at it, called him for his 3rd foul when he stood still and the Xavier guy leg whipped HIM, not the other way around as Corbett called it. Astounding.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 31, 2016 14:47:32 GMT -5
Sumner scored 28 - and we never ONCE forced him to shoot from outside. Maybe game plan to sag in and make him beat you from outside 3 feet??
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Dec 31, 2016 14:50:03 GMT -5
We weren't fouling like mad and we weren't the team fouling the most. That right there is the problem. I am not saying the officiating was fair, because I think the game was officiated too tightly on both ends, but you have to adjust to that and we did not. We also didn't make enough of our own free throws, which hasn't really been a problem up to now, but it was today. It wasn't adjustable officiating and that is my problem. Look, the team still holds plenty of blame. They were good enough to overcome the officiating disadvantage and they didn't. The game was not called too tightly on both ends in both halves, and I'm sick do III and Georgetown allowing this to occur. If the game was called equally as tightly, Xavier should consistently have 50% more fouls than us simply because they are far more agressive. But it wasn't. They were allowed to put two hands on our players, push, shove and go over the back to get a rebound. We were officiated by a different set of rules, with phatom calls a plenty. I'm sick of overlooking this enormous disadvantage to avoid being a "sore loser". Sorry but they way our games are officiated in this league has to change.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 31, 2016 14:56:53 GMT -5
I liked the effort shown by our guys. As I have stated before, we have a solid team. The question is do we have enough time to gel as a team. Also, man I wish Pryor would do more of what he did today--take this team on his shoulders and lead us to victory, AKA Josh Hart. I trust Pryor with the ball.
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Post by jld54 on Dec 31, 2016 15:17:27 GMT -5
The difference, once again, was point guard play. Peak, Pryor, Derrickson and Govan/Brad (11 pts/8 boards combined) played well enough. But, we do not have a PG that can run the offense, defend well or shoot. Going with who is hot of the 3 PGs is the best we can do but this has to takes its toll in terms on continuity. End of story...
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 31, 2016 15:21:21 GMT -5
I thought we played reasonably well.
The one coaching move I question is whether or not it would have made sense to try a zone, particularly after we got into foul trouble. My guess is that III thought we wouldn't be able to keep them off the boards if we went zone. And frankly he's probably right. But that may have been a way to keep Rodney in the game more.
But I certainly didn't think the loss was due to a lack of effort, preparation, or scheming generally. Sure, we had a couple turnovers at the end, but one of those was Mulmore air-mailing a pass and another was LJ properly trying to be aggressive against a trap but not getting a foul call. We got pretty good looks against both of their half-court defenses. We had a great look at a three to tie at the end, lots of chances at the FT line, and Tre missed some big open threes down the stretch. Hard to be critical of the scheming there. And, hell, we scored 76 flipping points.
I actually thought we were pretty attentive on the boards. They're an excellent rebounding team and we simply aren't, and within that context, being -6 in boards really wasn't terrible. But beyond the stats, I thought we really were focused on getting after the boards.
We lost the game because we couldn't stop getting called for fouls and they made their foul shots, whereas we didn't get to the line even though we were pretty aggressive driving. LJ, frankly, has almost become too good at squirming around contact -- the opposite of how he was the past two years! Some of the calls against us, of course, were fouls. But lots and lots and lots were really bad. There were two on LJ where he was just defending his guy and simply weren't fouls that come to mind immediately. They got bailed out a ton. Someone posted that we ought to have forced more outside shots. That's easier said than done. Even when we were playing off our man, they would just use the space to drive hard right at us.
We got more than a bit unlucky in that two of our 1-1s were with Brad at the line, and he missed both.
The good news, I thought, was that I didn't think Xavier played particularly badly and we were right there with them, even though I didn't think we played resoundingly well. So, to me, that answers some of the questions coming out of the Marquette game (that is, are we just not good enough to really compete). We are. But now we need some wins. And I do mean "now." We need to win three of the next five at a minimum. Two of those are "should wins." But neither of the next two is. So, it'd be awfully nice to get one (or two) of the next two to once again give us some wriggle room.
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justsaying
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 709
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Post by justsaying on Dec 31, 2016 15:35:19 GMT -5
The refs is part of the game. Our bigs often push in the back when they start to jump. We were a bit better today on interior defense but I've noticed teams get their offensive rebound because our defensive players are not ready for any loose balls or tips if the ball is not immediately in their area or can be rebound cleanly. Meaning if our team member is going for a rebound then the other team members are just looking on as if he will get it. The other team at that instant has other players still moving toward the ball while that is going on, then if the ball is not cleanly handled more than likely their other players moving toward the ball cleans it up. Then our reaction in now a late reach in or they get a put back basket or a reset. Kaleb and sometimes Peak are our best players at not giving up while the ball is not in his immediate area. This maybe wishful thinking but if our bigs get the ball 5 feet from the basket just explode toward the basket to get the basket or the foul on the other team, or pump fake and go strong into the basket. Maybe they are just not the players to make that move.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 31, 2016 15:36:34 GMT -5
too many fouls. held them to under 40% shooting but the ft differential was brutal. i really like what this team can do offensively at times but the consistent lack of any desire to play defense and rebound is a killer.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Dec 31, 2016 15:47:12 GMT -5
Well this was the first of my 3 live games this week and I am still not certain what just happened. Late but nice size crowd and loud at times. Probably best of the year. Some random thoughts:
I showed up for the start of the game, too bad not all of the players did--again. Refs were not good and not consistent, and some horrible calls against Govan, Pryor and Derrickson changed the course of the game. Refs' no calls were just as harmful as calls. At no time during the second half did it feel like the Hoyas could pull it out. Peak is a true warrior and I hope that he stays and develops his ball skills for another year. Pryor was taken out of the game by the refs and the Xavier defense until late in the second half. Hoyas are losing games between the ears, with some incredible lapses. JT III is clearly frustrated with some of the mental errors and voicing it to the kids, but somehow it is not changing anything. Mosley cannot yet handle the BE play as a starter and needs to come off the bench. No need to wait for his TO or foul before pulling him. Hoya guards really struggled with the length of Xavier guards, forcing some high and lofted passes. Hayes showed some signs of being last year's player, but still immobile, hands of stone and cannot shoot FTs. Kaleb second to Peak in terms of contributions and consistency today. Bad time for the team to forget how to shoot FTs and for Xavier to learn how to shoot them. Mulmore may be our best PG but that says more about the others than him. Still not polished. Smaller opponent and badly outrebounded again. Deja vu Couple of times JT III looked at Cameron, and then went another direction. Too bad, he might have made some of Tre's misses. Totally not impressed with Xavier, but they know how to win--we don't. That sums up the past few seasons.
On to Providence. Hope for a different start and finish.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Dec 31, 2016 15:48:44 GMT -5
The difference, once again, was point guard play. Peak, Pryor, Derrickson and Govan/Brad (11 pts/8 boards combined) played well enough. But, we do not have a PG that can run the offense, defend well or shoot. Going with who is hot of the 3 PGs is the best we can do but this has to takes its toll in terms on continuity. End of story... Totally agree. Give this team just a passable point guard (DSR, Wright, Starks, Clarke) and we would be 2-0 right now. Give them a great point guard (Brunson) and I really think they could compete for the BE championship this year.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Dec 31, 2016 17:02:27 GMT -5
The difference, once again, was point guard play. Peak, Pryor, Derrickson and Govan/Brad (11 pts/8 boards combined) played well enough. But, we do not have a PG that can run the offense, defend well or shoot. Going with who is hot of the 3 PGs is the best we can do but this has to takes its toll in terms on continuity. End of story... Totally agree. Give this team just a passable point guard (DSR, Wright, Starks, Clarke) and we would be 2-0 right now. Give them a great point guard (Brunson) and I really think they could compete for the BE championship this year. It is not even just a PG. How about just some good guards, period. Our best players are wing-players. Our "depth" is in the front-court. Guards? III has yet to fix that problem after all these years.
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