sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 24, 2016 0:22:46 GMT -5
Please explain the argument you think is being made. I'm not sure you do as it has nothing to do with success. There are repeated posts on here about Ewing vs. Govan as the more "versatile" player. You can try to dance around what it is but it's ridiculous. Ewing owned the college game during his stay in college. Govan hasn't accomplished anything. Again, it's ridiculous but I don't discourage the conversation just pointing it out to you. No, that is simply false. The argument is that Govan has a more versitile offensive skill set. That is very different than being a more versitile player. And even more absurd to say anyone is arguing Govan is a better player, offensively or defensively, than Ewing. In the current basketball landscape, I'd wager at least 50% of centers have a more versatile skill set than Ewing simply because the demands of today require it. It's a totally different position than in was in the 80s and pretending it's not is futile.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 24, 2016 0:35:22 GMT -5
Lol this discussion is so far from the original point I'm actually amazed....and that's saying a lot for this board. Is it already April fools?
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 24, 2016 1:25:35 GMT -5
Ewing was one of the main reasons I became a Georgetown fan. The other was John Thompson and his whole philosophy about using basketball to create opportunities for mostly black young men who may not have ever had an opportunity to attend college.
As far as Patrick Ewing is concerned, I do believe he was the top player coming out high school and was highly recruited. As a freshman, Ewing impacted the game like no other freshman I had seen before him. He was dominant. He was intimidating. He was amazingly athletic, especially considering his size. and he had a wing span on top of his height that was incredible. The player that most comes to mind when I think of Ewing was Anthony Davis at Kentucky.
As for a comparison between he and Govan, there is not much of a comparison--especially at this point in Govan's development. Ewing was poetry in motion whereas Govan is lumbering. Govan, in my humble opinion, will never have the kind of impact in college that Ewing did. But in all fairness to Govan also, the game of college basketball, and the center position as the focal attention, all of that has changed drastically since Ewing's time. All of Georgetown's big men have been different, yet impactful in their own way.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 24, 2016 8:07:17 GMT -5
“Winning the championship, going back to the [NCAA] finals, Patrick had a great reputation,” said Rod Thorn, now NBA president of basketball operations. “Most people thought Patrick would be an elite defender. I don’t think a whole bunch of people thought he would turn out to be as great as he was offensively.” “Everyone felt he would dominate rebounding, dominate shot-blocking and be a force. What he was, he was an offensive force,” [Hubie] Brown said. “Everybody thinks the person is going to come in and get double-doubles, 20-and-10. They don’t understand the competition.” nypost.com/2015/05/16/reliving-the-most-exciting-draft-in-knicks-history-30-years-later/Thorn's observation matches my recall. IOW, some "experts" thought Ewing would be more like Mutomobo turned out to be in the NBA -- primarily a defensive force/rebounder. I remember quite clearly JT Jr. being questioned about Ewing's offensive skill set prior to the draft and his response was words to the effect, "don't worry about Patrick, at Georgetown we have him do what we want him to do in games, and he does other things in practice." As is mostly the case, JT Jr. was correct. Thus, the comparison between what we see in Govan and what we saw in Ewing in games was not necessarily an indication of Ewing's actual offensive skill set when he was drafted. "Ewing wasn't known for offensive prowess while in college, where Georgetown coach John Thompson placed emphasis on defense and keeping big men in the pivot. But once in the pro ranks, away from the restraints of college opponents sagging on him, Ewing surprised many with his scoring ability, eventually developing an unstoppable baseline jumper." www.nba.com/history/legends/patrick-ewing/Good story on that draft: www.si.com/longform/2015/1985/ewing/
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Dec 24, 2016 11:07:23 GMT -5
Just finally had time to read through the game thread. Don't know enough to comment on the Govan-Ewing discussion, but I will say, as someone who was born after Ewing left Georgetown, I was captivated by the descriptions from those of y'all who watched him play. It reminds me of listening to folks down here talk about Bear Bryant's Alabama teams in the 1960s. We can only hope that Georgetown will have some times like this as a team going forward.
I was at the game on Thursday. A couple observations--
(1). The promotional people who are getting some love did a good job of pulling people out to this game. It was far from a great crowd, but it was a fun atmosphere for a game, much better than some of our earlier crowds against mid major competition.
(2). There is definitely chemistry on this team. Before the game, JTIII seemed more animated in reaching out to his players, giving high fives, etc. As players lined up for the anthem, he walked from one end to the other, getting them ready. All the body language just seems more cohesive than in the past.
(3). The defense was suspect early, but we picked up as we settled in. UNCG ate our lunch on the offensive glass for the first 10 minutes or so, but after that I thought we asserted ourselves better. Still not where we want to be, but holding this team to 56 points was no small feat. Our biggest problem is three point defense, by far. I do not understand why we insist on running past the shooters on the perimeter instead of just staying in front and guarding them. UNCG was not good at all from 3. I don't know how we defend a team like Creighton.
(4). LJ and Pryor were impressive because they didn't have banner offensive nights but still had a big impact on the game. They make the other players around them better. Jessie was fantastic and Derrickson settled in. Slow at first but great in the second half. Marcus needs to be a better passer and defender.
(5). We now have six straight wins. This team has made big progress. Proud of them. Big tests coming though.
Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 24, 2016 12:27:31 GMT -5
There are repeated posts on here about Ewing vs. Govan as the more "versatile" player. You can try to dance around what it is but it's ridiculous. Ewing owned the college game during his stay in college. Govan hasn't accomplished anything. Again, it's ridiculous but I don't discourage the conversation just pointing it out to you. No, that is simply false. The argument is that Govan has a more versitile offensive skill set. That is very different than being a more versitile player. And even more absurd to say anyone is arguing Govan is a better player, offensively or defensively, than Ewing. In the current basketball landscape, I'd wager at least 50% of centers have a more versatile skill set than Ewing simply because the demands of today require it. It's a totally different position than in was in the 80s and pretending it's not is futile. Sleepy - while it is certainly a much different game now, I would be interested in a description of the offensive skills Jessie possesses that Patrick did not. While I realize that Patrick honed his game greatly in the pros, I saw almost every game he played as a Hoya. He could do just about anything on offense if he was guarded one on one; the turnaround jumper going both ways, the jab step followed by either the step back jumper or the drive to the hoop, the baby hook, as well as the thunderous, offer swooping dunks. Other than the 22-footer - which there was no reason for him to shoot - I can't think of other skills that are unique to Jessie. And again, I can see Jessie as First Team All-Big East by next year if he keeps working and improving, I am not trying to diminish his skills at all.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Dec 24, 2016 14:40:47 GMT -5
Merry Christmas, everyone!
Plus/minus for Thursday's game, as calculated from the play-by-play posted at guhoyas.com:
Peak +21, Govan +19, Pryor +19, Derrickson +16, Mosely +12, Campbell +8, Johnson +5, Agau +4, Cameron +2, Mourning +2, Hayes +1, Mulmore +1, Hines even, Muresan even.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 24, 2016 20:04:49 GMT -5
No, that is simply false. The argument is that Govan has a more versitile offensive skill set. That is very different than being a more versitile player. And even more absurd to say anyone is arguing Govan is a better player, offensively or defensively, than Ewing. In the current basketball landscape, I'd wager at least 50% of centers have a more versatile skill set than Ewing simply because the demands of today require it. It's a totally different position than in was in the 80s and pretending it's not is futile. Sleepy - while it is certainly a much different game now, I would be interested in a description of the offensive skills Jessie possesses that Patrick did not. While I realize that Patrick honed his game greatly in the pros, I saw almost every game he played as a Hoya. He could do just about anything on offense if he was guarded one on one; the turnaround jumper going both ways, the jab step followed by either the step back jumper or the drive to the hoop, the baby hook, as well as the thunderous, offer swooping dunks. Other than the 22-footer - which there was no reason for him to shoot - I can't think of other skills that are unique to Jessie. And again, I can see Jessie as First Team All-Big East by next year if he keeps working and improving, I am not trying to diminish his skills at all. Personally, I could land either way when it comes to debating relative skill set. My biggest issue was the fact the argument was devolving into overallplayer comparisons between Ewing and Govan, which is ridiculous. Really I was pre-emting comments after our next loss saying "And people were comparing Govan to EWING, haha, Govan should be playing in DII." But, I could buy the argument that the ability to handle the ball, shoot outside and initiate the offense gives him a more versatile skill set.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Dec 24, 2016 21:37:17 GMT -5
Uh, I hope Jessie puts everything together but the only question to ask is if he's the best shooter at the C spot. And that's valid.
Bad/terribly weak hands. Poor passer. And very mechanical. He's not in the conversation with Ewing, Greg or even a SR year Henry Sims.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Dec 24, 2016 21:43:19 GMT -5
I think Henry is a good comp. Similar skill set, similar game.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 24, 2016 21:44:36 GMT -5
JG is getting better with every game. Keep putting in the work and he will have a special Hoya career.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 25, 2016 1:55:05 GMT -5
Uh, I hope Jessie puts everything together but the only question to ask is if he's the best shooter at the C spot. And that's valid. Bad/terribly weak hands. Poor passer. And very mechanical. He's not in the conversation with Ewing, Greg or even a SR year Henry Sims. You can't shoot that well with touch and have bad hands. Period. And let's stop with the nonsense about passing because all it means on this board is if he can duplicate other centers whom the offense ran through in III's Princeton schemes. I hope I never see a day in which Govan is being wasted like that in that useless scheme, particularly with him above the FT line waiting for teammates to cut. As long as he learns to make quicker passes out of double-teams then I'm fine with that.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 25, 2016 2:03:32 GMT -5
Sleepy - while it is certainly a much different game now, I would be interested in a description of the offensive skills Jessie possesses that Patrick did not. While I realize that Patrick honed his game greatly in the pros, I saw almost every game he played as a Hoya. He could do just about anything on offense if he was guarded one on one; the turnaround jumper going both ways, the jab step followed by either the step back jumper or the drive to the hoop, the baby hook, as well as the thunderous, offer swooping dunks. Other than the 22-footer - which there was no reason for him to shoot - I can't think of other skills that are unique to Jessie. And again, I can see Jessie as First Team All-Big East by next year if he keeps working and improving, I am not trying to diminish his skills at all. Personally, I could land either way when it comes to debating relative skill set. My biggest issue was the fact the argument was devolving into overallplayer comparisons between Ewing and Govan, which is ridiculous. Really I was pre-emting comments after our next loss saying "And people were comparing Govan to EWING, haha, Govan should be playing in DII." But, I could buy the argument that the ability to handle the ball, shoot outside and initiate the offense gives him a more versatile skill set. This. All day. My mea culpa if I underestimated Ewing's offensive skills while at GU, but some of the responses have still insisted upon referring to Ewing's defensive prowess or unnecessarily pointing out in detail why Ewing was the much better player. I don't recall writing anything that suggested otherwise. My initial statement was a comment that Govan may have more natural scoring gifts/skills/capabilities than the great Hoya centers that came before him.
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