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Post by practice on Feb 14, 2022 7:12:22 GMT -5
Both Georgetown in 1972 and Villanova with Jay Wright provide a pretty good blueprint -- hire a young, hungry coach with roots in the DMV -- or in PA for Wright -- who is going to build a program for the long haul that will compete nationally. The idea of hiring a guy in his 60s or 70s is a terrible one. We don't need a winner for 5 years .. we need a winner for 20+ years.
I'd like "Kim English"-type -- from DMV, under 45, and experience recruiting and coaching with a winning program. Whether it's a HC at a mid-major or an Assistant Coach at a Power Conference team, let's get someone who understands what it takes to win and to manage a program. Let's also look for a long term fit, as opposed to Pitino. Not for nothing, but John Thompson's race important -- gentrification of the DMV aside, the majority of the local recruits in the past, present and future from this area are going to be African-American. Personally, I think GU should prioritize hiring a black coach.
The biggest thing, though, is to hire some who has not only the skills and experience but also the potential of being successful at Georgetown for decades not 3 to 5 years. That's a big part of Villanova and that was a big part of the Hoyas success under JT2.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 14, 2022 7:46:33 GMT -5
John Thompson taught us that second chances are important and lead to success. And then there's the number of chances Pitino has had. And the "second chances" JT referred to I believe were meant to apply to teens and young men like AI not fully grown adults, married with choldren and should know better like Pitino.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Feb 14, 2022 7:51:38 GMT -5
It’s one thing to think the administration will do the right thing when it comes to Ewing, but it’s borderline crazy to even think they’d entertain Pitino for the role. There is no chance he’d even be considered.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Feb 14, 2022 7:52:44 GMT -5
A refresher on Pitino scandals. I can't see him receiving any serious consideration, especially with respect to the Karen Sypher pregnancy and abortion scandal. How desparate are we to be relevant? In 2009, Pitino revealed that he was the victim of an extortion attempt. During the ensuing investigation, he claimed that he had a sexual encounter with Karen Cunagin Sypher in 2003 and paid for her abortion after she became pregnant. www.businessinsider.com/looking-back-on-the-biggest-scandals-from-rick-pitinos-career-2017-9How is this a scandal? Didn't the woman have the right to choose? Paraphrasing from the good Book - “but I say to you, anyone who looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart and anyone who then has intercourse with her for 15 seconds has committed adultery with her already with his Edited”. hm
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 14, 2022 8:00:14 GMT -5
How is this a scandal? Didn't the woman have the right to choose? Paraphrasing from the good Book - “but I say to you, anyone who looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart and anyone who then has intercourse with her for 15 seconds has committed adultery with her already with his Edited”. hm Pretty sure the good book says something along the lines of “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 14, 2022 8:08:14 GMT -5
So how bad has it gotten?
There is a debate about hiring Rick Pitino to fix Georgetown’s brand.
Let that sink in.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 14, 2022 9:33:10 GMT -5
Like I said, I knew it wouldn’t be a popular opinion. I know it wouldn't be popular, and that's because of his baggage. And, I acknowledge that it is something that gives me pause. But, on balance, it's a move that makes a lot of sense: - Pitino is Hall of Fame coach. - Pitino's kid went to Georgetown. - Pitino has respect for Big John. When Big John passed, Pitino tweeted: "RIP Big John. He gave so much to his players and Georgetown. His program defined hard work, perseverance, and loyalty. As the proud father of several Hoyas, he will be greatly missed by the whole Pitino family." - Pitino has history with Providence in the Big East. It would be a coming home of sorts. - Pitino has already demonstrated he can turn around a team, like Iona, that doesn't even have talent. At Georgetown, Pitino would get much better talent than he has at Iona. - I would be willing to bet Pitino, if hired in March or April, would have us back in the NCAA tournament within 3 years, and much likely within 2. And, we badly need a turnaround given how bad a position we are in now. - Did I mention he's a Hall of Fame coach? The fact is, nobody else with that record is going to come through the doors. And I saw someone mention Brey, but even Brey isn't coming to Georgetown in all likelihood, and most fans would hate his style of play, which is very, very, very slow (297th highest tempo this year). The main negative on Pitino, of course are the scandals, but I think Georgetown could handle that. I think alumni would throw an absolute fit if we hired Pitino (even though it makes sense), and then they'd be thrilled in 2-3 years when we were competitive again. “The Courier-Journal of Louisville reported on its Web site that Pitino told police he had been drinking in a Louisville restaurant and had sex with Karen Sypher in August 2003. The police report said he denied allegations by Sypher that he raped her after the restaurant closed and at another time somewhere else. He said later he gave her $3,000 for an abortion.” Just, no. I mean, my goodness.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 14, 2022 9:42:53 GMT -5
Paraphrasing from the good Book - “but I say to you, anyone who looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart and anyone who then has intercourse with her for 15 seconds has committed adultery with her already with his Edited”. hm Pretty sure the good book says something along the lines of “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. He isn't casting stones. He's just answering the question of how is this a scandal. The scandal isn't the abortion but the affair on his wife. I'm not judging because I'd still hire Pitino tomorrow and if you think the 15yr NBA vet didn't step out on his spouse I have some land for sale in the middle of the ocean.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 14, 2022 10:00:56 GMT -5
Both Georgetown in 1972 and Villanova with Jay Wright provide a pretty good blueprint -- hire a young, hungry coach with roots in the DMV -- or in PA for Wright -- who is going to build a program for the long haul that will compete nationally. The idea of hiring a guy in his 60s or 70s is a terrible one. We don't need a winner for 5 years .. we need a winner for 20+ years. I'd like "Kim English"-type -- from DMV, under 45, and experience recruiting and coaching with a winning program. Whether it's a HC at a mid-major or an Assistant Coach at a Power Conference team, let's get someone who understands what it takes to win and to manage a program. Let's also look for a long term fit, as opposed to Pitino. Not for nothing, but John Thompson's race important -- gentrification of the DMV aside, the majority of the local recruits in the past, present and future from this area are going to be African-American. Personally, I think GU should prioritize hiring a black coach. The biggest thing, though, is to hire some who has not only the skills and experience but also the potential of being successful at Georgetown for decades not 3 to 5 years. That's a big part of Villanova and that was a big part of the Hoyas success under JT2. Of course, anybody would prefer 20 years of success to 5. But, what's more important than than 20 years of success? A quick turnaround. We are truly in the dumps, and we need things to change quickly. That is why Pitino is appealing. For all his flaws (and I do recognize he has them), he is a proven Hall of Fame coach who would surely turn the program around quickly. Sure, I would take Beilein, too, and probably prefer him to Pitino, but that's unlikely to happen. The idea of making a choice for 20+ years of success is a false choice. If we get a Kim English type who has success, there is a very, very, high chance that person leaves for a P5+ high-level high attention job like Indiana, etc. The idea that someone super young is going to attain quick success and stay put for 20 years, while possible, I think is not likely. Which is why we need someone who can turn things around. We really need someone who is a proven coach but who has already turned around a school (much like JT3 did at Princeton). Kim English is relatively young, and while I've seen some promising things, George Mason is doing okay but not great under him. I don't see why people think he is such a sure thing. He may very well be an awesome coach, but we really have no idea. If we cannot find a current head coach with proven success to helm our program, then I think we have no choice but to move on to English types, who are up-and-comers. But, I would prefer to have someone with proven success. I don't are if that person is in their 60s or 70s as long as they are a proven coach. And, to the poster who implied Pitino is washed up, the guy won a championship in 2013, a Sweet 16 in 2014, and Elite 8 in 2015. Georgetown has made the tournament only twice since 2013, and never past the first game.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 14, 2022 10:59:49 GMT -5
He absolutely has a "checkered" past. But the guy knows more about coaching than anyone alive (even Jay Wright). He has a 70% winning record but is especially good at turning terrible programs around (BU and Providence and now Iona). Like I said he was good enough for the Christian brothers at Iona and had no problems with the Dominicans at Providence. Look, if we finish 0-19 in the BE I think it is at least worth a phone call. If nothing else letting the college bball world now we are talking to Pitino would show that that the GU administration is serious about its basketball program. But yeah, you're right, they never will. I highly doubt Pitino would ever come to Gtown, think he'd go to a P5 school or stay where he is. Are you kidding? He’d come here in a NY minute. A great way to end a legendary coaching career would be to turn our program around. Plus it gets him back to big time Eastern basketball and NYC where he belongs. Do you really thinks he wants to end his career at Iona, even if he gets them into the NCAA this year?
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 14, 2022 11:01:45 GMT -5
I highly doubt Pitino would ever come to Gtown, think he'd go to a P5 school or stay where he is. Are you kidding? He’d come here in a NY minute. A great way to end a legendary coaching career would be to turn our program around. Plus it gets him back to big time Eastern basketball and NYC where he belongs. Do you really thinks he wants to end his career at Iona, even if he gets them into the NCAA this year? No, he wants to go back to the NBA and has been very honest about that. I'm not sure how Georgetown would help him get there more than Iona.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 14, 2022 11:06:09 GMT -5
Are you kidding? He’d come here in a NY minute. A great way to end a legendary coaching career would be to turn our program around. Plus it gets him back to big time Eastern basketball and NYC where he belongs. Do you really thinks he wants to end his career at Iona, even if he gets them into the NCAA this year? No, he wants to go back to the NBA and has been very honest about that. I'm not sure how Georgetown would help him get there more than Iona. Have we really sunk that low? Compare us to Iona? Cmon can you see Rick at the BET? He has to know it’s the closest he’ll ever get to MSG.
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Feb 14, 2022 11:13:30 GMT -5
I know it wouldn't be popular, and that's because of his baggage. And, I acknowledge that it is something that gives me pause. But, on balance, it's a move that makes a lot of sense: - Pitino is Hall of Fame coach. - Pitino's kid went to Georgetown. - Pitino has respect for Big John. When Big John passed, Pitino tweeted: "RIP Big John. He gave so much to his players and Georgetown. His program defined hard work, perseverance, and loyalty. As the proud father of several Hoyas, he will be greatly missed by the whole Pitino family." - Pitino has history with Providence in the Big East. It would be a coming home of sorts. - Pitino has already demonstrated he can turn around a team, like Iona, that doesn't even have talent. At Georgetown, Pitino would get much better talent than he has at Iona. - I would be willing to bet Pitino, if hired in March or April, would have us back in the NCAA tournament within 3 years, and much likely within 2. And, we badly need a turnaround given how bad a position we are in now. - Did I mention he's a Hall of Fame coach? The fact is, nobody else with that record is going to come through the doors. And I saw someone mention Brey, but even Brey isn't coming to Georgetown in all likelihood, and most fans would hate his style of play, which is very, very, very slow (297th highest tempo this year). The main negative on Pitino, of course are the scandals, but I think Georgetown could handle that. I think alumni would throw an absolute fit if we hired Pitino (even though it makes sense), and then they'd be thrilled in 2-3 years when we were competitive again. “The Courier-Journal of Louisville reported on its Web site that Pitino told police he had been drinking in a Louisville restaurant and had sex with Karen Sypher in August 2003. The police report said he denied allegations by Sypher that he raped her after the restaurant closed and at another time somewhere else. He said later he gave her $3,000 for an abortion.” Just, no. I mean, my goodness. C’mon guys - you’re forgetting the best part of the Pitino story. Pitino stated on the stand that the entire sexual encounter “took less than 15 seconds.”He could do it twice during a single 30 second timeout.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 14, 2022 11:24:04 GMT -5
No, he wants to go back to the NBA and has been very honest about that. I'm not sure how Georgetown would help him get there more than Iona. Have we really sunk that low? Compare us to Iona? Cmon can you see Rick at the BET? He has to know it’s the closest he’ll ever get to MSG. Absolutely - If Rick Pitino wants to go back to the NBA, why would he screw around rebuilding the worst Big East team in the modern day history of the conference for a couple of years when he has a team that can make the NCAAs year in and year out? We can get a young coach who wants a big pay raise, or one who wants to do another rebuild to show they can do it in a major conference, but Rick Pitino already has money and has a resume of rebuilding teams. He doesn't need to do those things. Winning with Iona gives you more visibility than spending 2 years bringing Georgetown back to a .500 record. kenpom: Iona 86 === other MAAC teams === Monmouth 137 Saint Peter's 170 Marist 175 Fairfield 197 ======================== Georgetown 213
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 14, 2022 11:37:58 GMT -5
Have we really sunk that low? Compare us to Iona? Cmon can you see Rick at the BET? He has to know it’s the closest he’ll ever get to MSG. Absolutely - If Rick Pitino wants to go back to the NBA, why would he screw around rebuilding the worst Big East team in the modern day history of the conference for a couple of years when he has a team that can make the NCAAs year in and year out? We can get a young coach who wants a big pay raise, or one who wants to do another rebuild to show they can do it in a major conference, but Rick Pitino already has money and has a resume of rebuilding teams. He doesn't need to do those things. Winning with Iona gives you more visibility than spending 2 years bringing Georgetown back to a .500 record. kenpom: Iona 86 === other MAAC teams === Monmouth 137 Saint Peter's 170 Marist 175 Fairfield 197 ======================== Georgetown 213 He may want the NBA but does the NBA want him? But sadly you’re probably right. He can get Iona back to the NCAA this year and will probably get a lot of NY and national press. It will take him at least 2 years at GU and probably a lot more headaches dealing with the GU hierarchy. But playing Nova, St John’s, UCONN and the BET at MSG has to be more appealing than Sienna, Niagara, etc.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 14, 2022 11:43:19 GMT -5
Are you kidding? He’d come here in a NY minute. A great way to end a legendary coaching career would be to turn our program around. Plus it gets him back to big time Eastern basketball and NYC where he belongs. Do you really thinks he wants to end his career at Iona, even if he gets them into the NCAA this year? No, he wants to go back to the NBA and has been very honest about that. I'm not sure how Georgetown would help him get there more than Iona. 247sports.com/Article/Rick-Pitino-Iona-closing-in-on-lifetime-contract-per-report-182187264/
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Feb 14, 2022 13:26:01 GMT -5
Absolutely - If Rick Pitino wants to go back to the NBA, why would he screw around rebuilding the worst Big East team in the modern day history of the conference for a couple of years when he has a team that can make the NCAAs year in and year out? We can get a young coach who wants a big pay raise, or one who wants to do another rebuild to show they can do it in a major conference, but Rick Pitino already has money and has a resume of rebuilding teams. He doesn't need to do those things. Winning with Iona gives you more visibility than spending 2 years bringing Georgetown back to a .500 record. kenpom: Iona 86 === other MAAC teams === Monmouth 137 Saint Peter's 170 Marist 175 Fairfield 197 ======================== Georgetown 213 He may want the NBA but does the NBA want him? But sadly you’re probably right. He can get Iona back to the NCAA this year and will probably get a lot of NY and national press. It will take him at least 2 years at GU and probably a lot more headaches dealing with the GU hierarchy. But playing Nova, St John’s, UCONN and the BET at MSG has to be more appealing than Sienna, Niagara, etc. As an alum of Fairfield along with GU, I’d never think I’d see the day Fairfield would ever be higher than the Hoyas. Certainly not in a year where Fairfield is actually under .500.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Feb 14, 2022 13:39:27 GMT -5
As an alum of Fairfield along with GU, I’d never think I’d see the day Fairfield would ever be higher than the Hoyas. Certainly not in a year where Fairfield is actually under .500. There are anomalies in that system, and, while it has relative merit, it’s not the gospel truth. Longwood is ranked quite aways ahead of us. I’d play them again and I’d play Fairfield.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 14, 2022 17:36:58 GMT -5
If we get a Kim English type who has success, there is a very, very, high chance that person leaves for a P5+ high-level high attention job like Indiana, etc. The idea that someone super young is going to attain quick success and stay put for 20 years, while possible, I think is not likely. Which is why we need someone who can turn things around. This fear is a big part of why we have "kept it in the family" for the last few hires. If we hire someone whose dream job (at least at the college level) is Georgetown, then we don't have to be afraid of them leaving, right? But, I think we have to face that fear at this point. Hiring a coach who is 60 in hopes that he'll want to settle in at Georgetown and maybe we won't get dumped is a bad reason, just like hiring from within the family to avoid getting dumped was a bad reason. The #1 priority has to be getting the best possible coach, and not worrying about what could happen 5-7 years from now if that coach brings us back to prominence. Also, the same thing could have been said when Villanova hired Wright, or when UVA hired Bennett. Neither was exactly a premiere job at the time, and both were rising stars in the coaching world. You would have thought that if they had success at those jobs that some of the bigger fish would have thrown a ton of money at them and taken them away. And Wright for sure has had numerous offers, but he's stayed. Villanova pays him well, he's got good connections and recruits well, and has everything he needs to win a title obviously. What more do you need? And there's no reason we can't be the same kind of destination job. It can be done if we as a university/community want it to be. So I think we need to look for our own Wright or Bennett type, someone who sees all the promise in this once great program and builds it back up. And if he does so, yes, he'll get a lot of phone calls. But if we pay him properly and give him all the necessary resources, it's totally possible to keep him just like Villanova has done. And FWIW, I do agree that a guy like English, or Neptune or Gates or others in that group, are gambles. It would be great if we could see him win at the A-10 level for a few years, take a team to the dance, etc. It would really prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's the choice. Unfortunately, we probably don't have another couple years to let it all play out. We might need a new captain in the next couple months. That means that we will have to make a decision as to whether or not they are the right guy without having as much of a track record as we'd like. It's not easy, but maybe the hand we're dealt. It would be great if we could swing somebody like Ed Cooley or Steve Forbes, who have had success at the high major level that would definitely translate. That would be closer to a sure thing. But those guys are heroes in their current situation for lifting up their current programs, and I don't know that they'll want to leave good situations for Georgetown when we are currently having one of the worst seasons any Big East team has ever had. I do truly believe that Georgetown has a much higher ceiling than PC or Wake, but it's gonna take a little time to rebuild from this current mess and I'm sure that isn't appetizing. Up and comers from mid majors would be much more likely to want to take that chance (though I still think English is going to Mizzou).
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Feb 14, 2022 20:01:02 GMT -5
Rick Pitino would almost certainly take Georgetown to a Final Four. At the same time, I wouldn’t be thrilled to see him coach here. I’m all for second chances, but he has flown too close to the sun on too many occasions. He’s an outstanding coach, and he has succeeded in a Catholic university setting. I just don’t care for him so, if given the choice, I would probably pass.
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