rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 9, 2015 13:17:17 GMT -5
What exactly did Allen Iverson do that was so egregious? It's not like he got into rape trouble like Kobe Bryant, is a sexual deviant horrible father who lacks all self control like Tiger Woods, killed someone like Oscar Pistorius, Ray Lewis (possibly), Aaron Hernandez, loaded up on roids or drugs like Arod, Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds or was a child abuser who beat one of his many out of wedlock sons like Adrian Peterson. From earlier in the thread: deadspin.com/allen-iverson-has-destroyed-the-legacy-of-allen-iverson-1708683536So yeah, he did not commit murder, and I don't think any of those are convictions, but you've got pretty strong evidence of a guy with a history of domestic abuse, alcoholism, and gambling problems. Outside of a few interviews where he sounds reasonable for 15 minutes at a time, I'm not sure there's a ton of evidence he's really changed from the guy who did all those things. I hope this doesn't come off as trying to excuse his actions, but who is Tawanna and what gives her so much more credibility than AI?? Only those two really know what goes on between them, and you act as if she's some angel by virtue of pointing the finger first. Also, boo hoo he left his children in a hotel room for one night....you know how many kids would love to have an opportunity like that? God knows I enjoyed the opportunity when my parents left me in their hotel room for a few hours.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 9, 2015 13:18:39 GMT -5
What player of Iverson's caliber (MVP and HOF level) has ever coached in college basketball though?
In some way it is an opportunity because a player of that level would usually be in NBA broadcasting, NBA coaching or the NBA front office. You really don't find someone of Iverson's caliber on a college basketball staff.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 9, 2015 13:26:49 GMT -5
Putting aside the academic degree issue previously discussed and whether Iverson could actually commit to a full time job given his off-court issues, today's recruits aren't choosing a school because of who played there 20 years ago. Style of play (and ability to contribute) drives these decisions. If someone wants a Georgetown legend to teach guards the finer points of the game, call John Duren. Jabril says hi. Can we stop using Jabril as a context point? He was alive when Allen Iverson was in a Georgetown uniform. The kids we would hypothetically be recruiting using Allen Iverson as some sort of celebrity coach weren't and likely none of them remember seeing Iverson play a game in the NBA on TV. Also, trying to employ the guy who wrote 40 Bars would get you fired on a college campus today. genius.com/Allen-iverson-40-bars-lyrics
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 9, 2015 13:27:20 GMT -5
What exactly did Allen Iverson do that was so egregious? It's not like he got into rape trouble like Kobe Bryant, is a sexual deviant horrible father who lacks all self control like Tiger Woods, killed someone like Oscar Pistorius, Ray Lewis (possibly), Aaron Hernandez, loaded up on roids or drugs like Arod, Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds or was a child abuser who beat one of his many out of wedlock sons like Adrian Peterson. From earlier in the thread: deadspin.com/allen-iverson-has-destroyed-the-legacy-of-allen-iverson-1708683536So yeah, he did not commit murder, and I don't think any of those are convictions, but you've got pretty strong evidence of a guy with a history of domestic abuse, alcoholism, and gambling problems. Outside of a few interviews where he sounds reasonable for 15 minutes at a time, I'm not sure there's a ton of evidence he's really changed from the guy who did all those things. Domestic violence is a serious issue but Iverson was never arrested for it. So sounds strange that Tawanna would not have filed any charges but said all this stuff just to damage his reputation. As far as gambling problems. Charles Barley and Michael Jordan have gambling problems but that hasn't really damaged them. Being bad with your finances doesn't make you a bad guy or menace to society. And most of us drink alcohol. If he's an alcoholic which I don't know if he is that's a disease and it doesn't seem as if it caused him to kill or hurt anyone. So the worst he's done is some weed (which is now legal in some states) and carried a gun (2nd amendment). I don't see how that puts him on the same plain as Kobe Bryant, Tiger Words, Oscar Pistoris, Aaron Hernandez, Lance Armstrong, Arod, Adrian Peterson or other guys who have done truly bad things.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 9, 2015 13:27:26 GMT -5
I don't believe AI had anything to do with Jabril choosing G'town.. I'm too lazy to go back & look but iirc he picked G'town over Florida State because of the BE and because DC was close to home.. It's been mentioned a couple times: "Georgetown, which is currently ranked 20th in the nation by the Associated Press, has produced such NBA greats as Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe Mutombo and Allen Iverson, who Trawick calls his “favorite basketball player ever,” as well as recent stars Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert." www.montgomerynews.com/articles/2010/11/20/sports/doc4ce34a8948443264432617.txt "Favorite athlete is Allen Iverson and team is the Philadephia 76ers."www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/jabril_trawick_765070.html"7) All the Georgetown basketball legends returned recently for the John R Thompson Jr. Intercollegiate Athletics Center dedication ceremony. Allen Iverson showed up. You're guard from Philly who grew up watching the Hoyas legend play guard for the 76ers. Right now, today, who wins a game of one-on-one. JT: I think I'd win. I don't want to play AI. I'd rather play someone like (Michael) Jordan. I grew up watching AI. He's really my idol. (So, you don't want to mess with the legend, the fandom.). Yeah. That's my boy right there."www.csnwashington.com/ncaa/hoyas-countdown-no-17-jabril-trawick-ready-moreHere's the quote in the Montgomery news article prior to the one you posted.. It's much more to the point imo.. I chose Georgetown not only because it’s one of the best basketball programs in the country,” Trawick said, “but it’s one of the best academic schools in the country. If the basketball stuff doesn’t work out, I can still say I received a ‘Georgetown education’ and go out in the world and get a good job.”AI is his favorite player but he doesn't mention him as a factor in his recruitment in any of the articles you posted..
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Jun 9, 2015 13:28:04 GMT -5
What player of Iverson's caliber (MVP and HOF level) has ever coached in college basketball though? In some way it is an opportunity because a player of that level would usually be in NBA broadcasting, NBA coaching or the NBA front office. You really don't find someone of Iverson's caliber on a college basketball staff. The point is a good one. However, a couple come to mind right away, and there may be many more....Chris Mullin at St. Johns is in the HOF. I believe Clyde Drexler coached a bit a Houston?
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 9, 2015 13:32:06 GMT -5
What player of Iverson's caliber (MVP and HOF level) has ever coached in college basketball though? In some way it is an opportunity because a player of that level would usually be in NBA broadcasting, NBA coaching or the NBA front office. You really don't find someone of Iverson's caliber on a college basketball staff. The point is a good one. However, a couple come to mind right away, and there may be many more....Chris Mullin at St. Johns is in the HOF. I believe Clyde Drexler coached a bit a Houston? Drexler did. But those are head coaching jobs. I was thinking more assistant coach or staff positions like Othella Harrington or Rod Strickland. I don't think a MVP/HOF caliber NBA player has taken a position like that at the college level. At least not in recent memory (1985-2015). To have an NBA MVP/HOF just on the staff would seem to be a huge edge because of how rare it is in college basketball. I mean think about it it's like if Duke or Kansas had Steph Curry as a shooting coach assistant or staff on top of Bill Self and the rest of his staff.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jun 9, 2015 13:40:53 GMT -5
Can we stop using Jabril as a context point? He was alive when Allen Iverson was in a Georgetown uniform. The kids we would hypothetically be recruiting using Allen Iverson as some sort of celebrity coach weren't and likely none of them remember seeing Iverson play a game in the NBA on TV. Also, trying to employ the guy who wrote 40 Bars would get you fired on a college campus today. genius.com/Allen-iverson-40-bars-lyricsLol you're reaching though....you said he wouldn't have an impact, he just did. If he hypothetically joined the staff this year you act as if these new crop of kids weren't alive when he was playing either.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Jun 9, 2015 13:53:41 GMT -5
What player of Iverson's caliber (MVP and HOF level) has ever coached in college basketball though? In some way it is an opportunity because a player of that level would usually be in NBA broadcasting, NBA coaching or the NBA front office. You really don't find someone of Iverson's caliber on a college basketball staff. Completely agree. I assumed that this argument was hypothetical. Chuck would never do this and the University would never ask. But I simply was stating that I believe recruiting would benefit. My son is 12 and he knows who AI is in NBA history. Now we do live in Newport News but that's another story. ......lol
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 9, 2015 13:57:09 GMT -5
Completely agree. I assumed that this argument was hypothetical. Chuck would never do this and the University would never ask. But I simply was stating that I believe recruiting would benefit. My son is 12 and he knows who AI is in NBA history. Now we do live in Newport News but that's another story. ......lol Plus, his dad loves the Hoyas, so that certainly cannot hurt.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 9, 2015 14:02:11 GMT -5
What player of Iverson's caliber (MVP and HOF level) has ever coached in college basketball though? In some way it is an opportunity because a player of that level would usually be in NBA broadcasting, NBA coaching or the NBA front office. You really don't find someone of Iverson's caliber on a college basketball staff. Completely agree. I assumed that this argument was hypothetical. Chuck would never do this and the University would never ask. But I simply was stating that I believe recruiting would benefit. My son is 12 and he knows who AI is in NBA history. Now we do live in Newport News but that's another story. ......lol Yeah I'm not sure I would want Iverson either cause there is a fair amount of risk. But the opportunity to get an NBA MVP/HoF on the staff is there exactly because his rep is kind of tarnished. If he had a clean reputation he'd be doing NBA TV or on staff in the NBA. Kids would jump at the opportunity not only because they like hin but because they could learn his secrets and go up against him one on one everyday in practice. It's not everyday that a high school kid can learn from An NBA mvp/hof.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 9, 2015 14:09:55 GMT -5
It's been mentioned a couple times: "Georgetown, which is currently ranked 20th in the nation by the Associated Press, has produced such NBA greats as Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe Mutombo and Allen Iverson, who Trawick calls his “favorite basketball player ever,” as well as recent stars Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert." www.montgomerynews.com/articles/2010/11/20/sports/doc4ce34a8948443264432617.txt "Favorite athlete is Allen Iverson and team is the Philadephia 76ers."www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/jabril_trawick_765070.html"7) All the Georgetown basketball legends returned recently for the John R Thompson Jr. Intercollegiate Athletics Center dedication ceremony. Allen Iverson showed up. You're guard from Philly who grew up watching the Hoyas legend play guard for the 76ers. Right now, today, who wins a game of one-on-one. JT: I think I'd win. I don't want to play AI. I'd rather play someone like (Michael) Jordan. I grew up watching AI. He's really my idol. (So, you don't want to mess with the legend, the fandom.). Yeah. That's my boy right there."www.csnwashington.com/ncaa/hoyas-countdown-no-17-jabril-trawick-ready-moreHere's the quote in the Montgomery news article prior to the one you posted.. It's much more to the point imo.. I chose Georgetown not only because it’s one of the best basketball programs in the country,” Trawick said, “but it’s one of the best academic schools in the country. If the basketball stuff doesn’t work out, I can still say I received a ‘Georgetown education’ and go out in the world and get a good job.”AI is his favorite player but he doesn't mention him as a factor in his recruitment in any of the articles you posted.. It's implied. It doesn't sound good to say I came here because Iverson went here. So I see that as tact. At the very least a Philly kid would factor in that your Idol went to Georgetown in 1) considering Georgetown 2) and choosing it. I mean how many Philly kids do we get anyway. Probably not many because it's not exactly close to home and they have Nova, temple and Pitt. And subconsciously or consciously you would calculate that I have a much better chance of meeting my idol if I go to the school he went to than if I went somewhere else. Which actually happened when AI came back to Georgetown and Jabril was able to meet and take pictures with him. There's a picture somewhere of AI, Hop and jabril looking like they just finished playing.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 9, 2015 14:13:14 GMT -5
I've often said JTIII likely would have never touched recruiting Iverson with a ten foot pole. Often? Really? How many times have you had a conversation that lead to the question "I wonder if JT3 would've recruited Allen Iverson."
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jun 9, 2015 14:15:19 GMT -5
You're wrong. That sort of realness would be celebrated in the name of diversity.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 9, 2015 15:11:16 GMT -5
Here's the quote in the Montgomery news article prior to the one you posted.. It's much more to the point imo.. I chose Georgetown not only because it’s one of the best basketball programs in the country,” Trawick said, “but it’s one of the best academic schools in the country. If the basketball stuff doesn’t work out, I can still say I received a ‘Georgetown education’ and go out in the world and get a good job.”AI is his favorite player but he doesn't mention him as a factor in his recruitment in any of the articles you posted.. It's implied. It doesn't sound good to say I came here because Iverson went here. So I see that as tact. At the very least a Philly kid would factor in that your Idol went to Georgetown in 1) considering Georgetown 2) and choosing it. I mean how many Philly kids do we get anyway. Probably not many because it's not exactly close to home and they have Nova, temple and Pitt. And subconsciously or consciously you would calculate that I have a much better chance of meeting my idol if I go to the school he went to than if I went somewhere else. Which actually happened when AI came back to Georgetown and Jabril was able to meet and take pictures with him. There's a picture somewhere of AI, Hop and jabril looking like they just finished playing. Why would Jabril saying AI going to school at G'town factored in his decision to commit be a bad thing? We can agree to disagree on this.. Once I start reading about sub-conscious thoughts I have to concede..
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Talos
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Post by Talos on Jun 9, 2015 15:46:02 GMT -5
From earlier in the thread: deadspin.com/allen-iverson-has-destroyed-the-legacy-of-allen-iverson-1708683536So yeah, he did not commit murder, and I don't think any of those are convictions, but you've got pretty strong evidence of a guy with a history of domestic abuse, alcoholism, and gambling problems. Outside of a few interviews where he sounds reasonable for 15 minutes at a time, I'm not sure there's a ton of evidence he's really changed from the guy who did all those things. Domestic violence is a serious issue but Iverson was never arrested for it. So sounds strange that Tawanna would not have filed any charges but said all this stuff just to damage his reputation. As far as gambling problems. Charles Barley and Michael Jordan have gambling problems but that hasn't really damaged them. Being bad with your finances doesn't make you a bad guy or menace to society. And most of us drink alcohol. If he's an alcoholic which I don't know if he is that's a disease and it doesn't seem as if it caused him to kill or hurt anyone. So the worst he's done is some weed (which is now legal in some states) and carried a gun (2nd amendment). I don't see how that puts him on the same plain as Kobe Bryant, Tiger Words, Oscar Pistoris, Aaron Hernandez, Lance Armstrong, Arod, Adrian Peterson or other guys who have done truly bad things. The overwhelming majority of victims of domestic violence don't report it to the police or press charges. Victims fear physical reprisal from their abusers, social ostracism, loss of financial support, or having to put their kids through the mess of the judicial process. So it's not strange she didn't report it, but actually quite common. I wasn't there for these incidents, so not taking sides, just pointing out that just because someone wasn't arrested for domestic violence doesn't automatically mean he's innocent. Serious gambling/financial problems would be a huge obstacle to being a college coach, in the same way it's an obstacle to obtaining a government security clearance. Gambling problems inevitably lead to contacts with nefarious individuals/organizations, as well as leave the individuals susceptible to extortion or requests for "favors" from their creditors. I don't know much about AI's gambling issues, but I would think any university would be hesitant to hire any coach with legitimate gambling/financial problems. There is a big difference between drinking alcohol (as most do) and being an alcoholic. Like you, I have no idea about AI's relation if any to this issue, but in general I don't think an alcoholic would make a good role model for 18 year old kids. The 2nd Amendment only protects you if your carrying of the gun doesn't violate a state or federal law. All this to say I've always had tremendous respect for AI's physical and mental toughness, both on and off the court. I respect how he has fought through difficult circumstances, and especially those he encountered when he was young. That being said, he has made a lot of mistakes in his life and even after he became a multi-millionaire. I don't really think he's best suited to dedicating himself to being an assistant coach. But I do agree with another poster who suggested he would be good to talk to the players from time to time and basketball and life issues.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 9, 2015 16:14:52 GMT -5
From earlier in the thread: deadspin.com/allen-iverson-has-destroyed-the-legacy-of-allen-iverson-1708683536So yeah, he did not commit murder, and I don't think any of those are convictions, but you've got pretty strong evidence of a guy with a history of domestic abuse, alcoholism, and gambling problems. Outside of a few interviews where he sounds reasonable for 15 minutes at a time, I'm not sure there's a ton of evidence he's really changed from the guy who did all those things. Domestic violence is a serious issue but Iverson was never arrested for it. So sounds strange that Tawanna would not have filed any charges but said all this stuff just to damage his reputation. As far as gambling problems. Charles Barley and Michael Jordan have gambling problems but that hasn't really damaged them. Being bad with your finances doesn't make you a bad guy or menace to society. And most of us drink alcohol. If he's an alcoholic which I don't know if he is that's a disease and it doesn't seem as if it caused him to kill or hurt anyone. So the worst he's done is some weed (which is now legal in some states) and carried a gun (2nd amendment). I don't see how that puts him on the same plain as Kobe Bryant, Tiger Words, Oscar Pistoris, Aaron Hernandez, Lance Armstrong, Arod, Adrian Peterson or other guys who have done truly bad things. What a bunch of pathetic fanboy apologetics. Assuming what is said in the book is true, he threatened to kill his wife and has had an abusive relationship with her. But yet you're going to vilify Kobe Bryant? He's an absentee father who has regularly neglected his kids and other responsibilities (see that article for further examples) due to his alcoholism, but somehow that's nothing compared to Tiger Woods' misdeeds, which are "truly bad"? Lance Armstrong and A-Rod? Can you really take yourself seriously when you write this kind of nonsense?
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Thomas
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Post by Thomas on Jun 9, 2015 16:24:26 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 9, 2015 17:08:03 GMT -5
I've often said JTIII likely would have never touched recruiting Iverson with a ten foot pole. Often? Really? How many times have you had a conversation that lead to the question "I wonder if JT3 would've recruited Allen Iverson." You do realize it's possible to have conversations outside of HoyaTalk with...you know...live human beings, right? I actually have had conversations with friends talking about the history of the program and how our recruiting has changed. So, yes. And thanks for your insightful input.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 9, 2015 17:15:26 GMT -5
One other point focused solely on basketball: People assume Iverson might help - somebody mentioned him sharing his secrets (whatever that might be) - but none of us really know how he would be as a coach. Can he teach basketball? Does he like doing it? There are plenty of good players in sports who are horrible coaches and bad players who are great coaches.
All I'm saying is that aside from recruiting nobody has articulated a basketball reason for him to be on staff. His game also relied super heavily on his physical gifts and when they disappeared so did his efficacy. Again, I'm not saying that he couldn't be a coach. I'm just saying I haven't read any support aside from sharing intangible secrets.
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