hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 13, 2015 23:23:36 GMT -5
Any chance JTIII starts White over Peak next week? Way overdue. Or even Tre.
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Post by capcenterhoya on Mar 14, 2015 10:52:38 GMT -5
I think it's totally unfair to put the pressure of past flameouts on this year's team. If people are pinning their hopes on this team to erase the memory of FGCU, they are going to be disappointed. We have 31 games to evaluate this team, and we are 5-10 against tournament quality teams. Considering we were an NIT team last year and lost arguably our best player, the season has been a significant improvement. Depending on our first round matchup, we will probably be around a 60% favorite. Let's not act like losing in that situation is testament to some fatal failing in the program.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 14, 2015 12:19:49 GMT -5
I think it's totally unfair to put the pressure of past flameouts on this year's team. If people are pinning their hopes on this team to erase the memory of FGCU, they are going to be disappointed. We have 31 games to evaluate this team, and we are 5-10 against tournament quality teams. Considering we were an NIT team last year and lost arguably our best player, the season has been a significant improvement. Depending on our first round matchup, we will probably be around a 60% favorite. Let's not act like losing in that situation is testament to some fatal failing in the program. Thank you. This traumatized fan base has to calm down and realize that you can't erase the 2008-2014 failures in one season--not with a good-but-not-great team like this one. A fair expectation going in before the games are played is to win 1 game. Those expectations can change like they did for the 2001 Hoyas who had to be expected to beat Hampton when they became the opponent in Round 2. But for now, avoiding the 12 over 5 upset is the goal.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 14, 2015 12:21:50 GMT -5
I am optimistic that JTIII can be a little bit loose going into this one. We aren't going to be a top 3 seed, so the pressure just isn't there. 12 over 5 and 11 over 6 happens so frequently, and he has to know that every talking head on the planet will pick against us--I could write the "nobody thinks we can do this" speech in my sleep. That isn't to say that I really believe in this "chip on the shoulder" kind of stuff as being determinative of anything, but between last night's comeback and recent history, we should have as good a reason as any team to be motivated to give it 2000% effort.
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on Mar 14, 2015 13:02:56 GMT -5
as in any sports match ups matters but i would be less concerned with the match up if more than 3 players (jabril, copeland, and white( at the end)) to be aggressive and constant attack mode for the whole game. instead of an attitude i hope we win the 1st game but an attitude i will do whatever it takes for each possession and i will show the opposition, then if loss occurs obviously they were a better team and the pill of defeat is not as hard to swallow.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 14:36:43 GMT -5
I think it's totally unfair to put the pressure of past flameouts on this year's team. If people are pinning their hopes on this team to erase the memory of FGCU, they are going to be disappointed. We have 31 games to evaluate this team, and we are 5-10 against tournament quality teams. Considering we were an NIT team last year and lost arguably our best player, the season has been a significant improvement. Depending on our first round matchup, we will probably be around a 60% favorite. Let's not act like losing in that situation is testament to some fatal failing in the program. Thank you. This traumatized fan base has to calm down and realize that you can't erase the 2008-2014 failures in one season--not with a good-but-not-great team like this one. A fair expectation going in before the games are played is to win 1 game. Those expectations can change like they did for the 2001 Hoyas who had to be expected to beat Hampton when they became the opponent in Round 2. But for now, avoiding the 12 over 5 upset is the goal. Meh. Doing well in the tournament has nothing to do with being a great team, or even a particularly good one. It's a complete crapshoot of luck, getting hot, match-ups and officiating. I don't really care much about the results of the tournament as long as we play around our average game. We could lose the first game and I would be happy as long as we didn't play our worst game of the season. I'd consider that erasing the memory of FGCU at least. I think the big mistake everyone mistakes is having any expectations at all for any team going into the tournament.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 14, 2015 15:04:34 GMT -5
I actually think we should just turn down the bid. We're completely comfortable with a 20-win year. No reason to play some dumb, stupid, idiotic, crapshoot, dice roll, lottery nonsense. The competitive realities being what they are, the tournament can only sour us on our team's performance this year.
I mean, if we do make a run in one of the most exciting events of the year, I won't even feel that great because of the flawed design of the tournament.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 14, 2015 15:07:56 GMT -5
speaking of crap shoots, the reason I think things will be different this year is the difficulty of shooting snake eyes for seven years in a row. At some point the odds will be in our favor, and this is the year things change. You read it here first!
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 15:09:04 GMT -5
speaking of crap shoots, the reason I think things will be different this year is the difficulty of shooting snake eyes for seven years in a row. At some point the odds will be in our favor, and this is the year things change. You read it here first! And if not this year, next year we have an even better chance!
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 14, 2015 15:20:02 GMT -5
speaking of crap shoots, the reason I think things will be different this year is the difficulty of shooting snake eyes for seven years in a row. At some point the odds will be in our favor, and this is the year things change. You read it here first! But SirSaxa these are clearly independent events! Have you lost your mind? If you're not going to overthink this in an effort to rationalize our poor tournament performance and buttress yourself against further disappointment well all I can say is... HOYA SAXA!!!!!! SWEET SIXTEEN BOUND!!!!!
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 15:31:12 GMT -5
I actually think we should just turn down the bid. We're completely comfortable with a 20-win year. No reason to play some dumb, stupid, idiotic, crapshoot, dice roll, lottery nonsense. The competitive realities being what they are, the tournament can only sour us on our team's performance this year. I mean, if we do make a run in one of the most exciting events of the year, I won't even feel that great because of the flawed design of the tournament. I'm know this is sarcastic but any tournament that an extraordinarily average team like UCONN can win the whole thing, not once, but TWICE in 4 years, I cannot take seriously. They'll probably win the whole thing again this year if they win tonight and tomorrow night, because that is just how things seem to go for me. If Florida Gulf Coast can make the sweet sixteen, anyone can make the sweet sixteen. It doesn't mean you are a good team or a great team or an average team or a lucky team. It just means you won 2 games in a row, which everyone in this tournament can do as evidenced by the fact they they are in the tournament. We could end up facing a final four team in the first round. Heck, if Uconn wins their tournament(Which seems likely) we could end up facing THEM in the first round, the defending and possibly future national champion. So yes, success in the tournament is a complete crapshoot. Sometimes great teams win, sometimes great teams lose. Losing doesn't mean you're bad and winning doesn't mean you're good.
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Post by bicentennial on Mar 14, 2015 15:32:26 GMT -5
While I agree that they independent events I feel the correct analysis is an analysis of variance where since we have played under our statistical level this year we should be above our statistical level. I was greatly pleased with the team performance despite our loss since I believe our freshman suddenly got that they are and can be great and without their performing the best they can we won't win. I also think the Big East will do well in the tournament overall since we have had so many close games between great teams.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 14, 2015 15:45:38 GMT -5
I actually think we should just turn down the bid. We're completely comfortable with a 20-win year. No reason to play some dumb, stupid, idiotic, crapshoot, dice roll, lottery nonsense. The competitive realities being what they are, the tournament can only sour us on our team's performance this year. I mean, if we do make a run in one of the most exciting events of the year, I won't even feel that great because of the flawed design of the tournament. I'm know this is sarcastic but any tournament that an extraordinarily average team like UCONN can win the whole thing, not once, but TWICE in 4 years, I cannot take seriously. They'll probably win the whole thing again this year if they win tonight and tomorrow night, because that is just how things seem to go for me. If Florida Gulf Coast can make the sweet sixteen, anyone can make the sweet sixteen. It doesn't mean you are a good team or a great team or an average team or a lucky team. It just means you won 2 games in a row, which everyone in this tournament can do as evidenced by the fact they they are in the tournament. We could end up facing a final four team in the first round. Heck, if Uconn wins their tournament(Which seems likely) we could end up facing THEM in the first round, the defending and possibly future national champion. So yes, success in the tournament is a complete crapshoot. Sometimes great teams win, sometimes great teams lose. Losing doesn't mean you're bad and winning doesn't mean you're good. It is pretty crazy that teams like UConn and Michigan State are so lucky all the time. Lucky luckmeiseters! If you could have a winning approach to tournaments like this, it would be great. But sadly it's merely whom the angels decide to kiss. Just in case though, the Hoyas might want to up the defensive intensity and not hand out easy baskets. The angels seem to like teams that don't give up 70+ points a game when their season average is in the low to mid 60s. Just in case, of course.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 16:03:13 GMT -5
I'm know this is sarcastic but any tournament that an extraordinarily average team like UCONN can win the whole thing, not once, but TWICE in 4 years, I cannot take seriously. They'll probably win the whole thing again this year if they win tonight and tomorrow night, because that is just how things seem to go for me. If Florida Gulf Coast can make the sweet sixteen, anyone can make the sweet sixteen. It doesn't mean you are a good team or a great team or an average team or a lucky team. It just means you won 2 games in a row, which everyone in this tournament can do as evidenced by the fact they they are in the tournament. We could end up facing a final four team in the first round. Heck, if Uconn wins their tournament(Which seems likely) we could end up facing THEM in the first round, the defending and possibly future national champion. So yes, success in the tournament is a complete crapshoot. Sometimes great teams win, sometimes great teams lose. Losing doesn't mean you're bad and winning doesn't mean you're good. It is pretty crazy that teams like UConn and Michigan State are so lucky all the time. Lucky luckmeiseters! If you could have a winning approach to tournaments like this, it would be great. But sadly it's merely whom the angels decide to kiss. Just in case though, the Hoyas might want to up the defensive intensity and not hand out easy baskets. The angels seem to like teams that don't give up 70+ points a game when their season average is in the low to mid 60s. Just in case, of course. It's not just luck and I never made that argument. But just because it's more than luck doesn't mean the NCAA tournament is at all effective at determining the best teams or weeding out bad teams or anything that is get's credit for doing. For instance, our 2007 team was clearly our best team under III. However, we were very VERY lucky in that tournament. A few bad bounces in that game against BC, we would be talking about our 8 year streak of first round losses. What does that mean? Nothing. But we were a elite team that year and needed a lot of angel kisses to be recognized as such. Would we have been any worse of a team had the ref called a travel on Green against Vandy? No. Would we be considered a worse team? Yes. The 2006 team is frequently discussed as the second best team under III, likely because they went to the Sweet Sixteen. I think there are a few teams that would easily be considered better had they not flamed out in the first weekend. My point: the tournament doesn't mean you are any better or worse of a team than you were before it started. Making a run doesn't mean you a good to great team. Losing doesn't mean you weren't any good. Do you really disagree with any of this, or do you think Florida Gulf Coast was a top 16 team in the country in 2013 and in 2008 we weren't a top 32 team in the country?
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 14, 2015 16:11:22 GMT -5
In the case of UConn twice they did have guards who took over games and bigs who protected the rim and rebounded but they also did have some luck in the tournament. The other thing that made their tournament runs so remarkable was that despite their talent they had badly underachieved in the regular season. They just didn't bring it until the postseason. Also before the Kimba run UConn had not won a BET game in 5 years but everyone forgets all that once they win it.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 16:25:56 GMT -5
In the case of UConn twice they did have guards who took over games and bigs who protected the rim and rebounded but they also did have some luck in the tournament. The other thing that made their tournament runs so remarkable was that despite their talent they had badly underachieved in the regular season. They just didn't bring it until the postseason. Also before the Kimba run UConn had not won a BET game in 5 years but everyone forgets all that once they win it. Their system is built for the style and play of the tournament I agree. But I don't think they underachieved so much in the regular seasons as they overachieved in the postseason. Both teams had a great guard, with average rosters around them that infused their teams with confidence and open shots as a result of taking all the attention of the defense. It had nothing to do with "bringing it" in the post season versus the regular season, more just post season play benefitting a team carried by a great player, specifically a guard, and players clicking and peaking at the right time. Kentucky last year was a good example of a team underachieving but still probably being one of the best 5 or 6 teams in the country when giving it 100%. Basically if it was a play-off type of system, they still likely would have made the finals. Uconn, on the other hand, I don't think they could replicated either of those miracle postseason runs if they tried and I don't even think a lot of UConn fans would disagree. Living in Connecticut I hear as much all the time.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 14, 2015 16:40:18 GMT -5
It is pretty crazy that teams like UConn and Michigan State are so lucky all the time. Lucky luckmeiseters! If you could have a winning approach to tournaments like this, it would be great. But sadly it's merely whom the angels decide to kiss. Just in case though, the Hoyas might want to up the defensive intensity and not hand out easy baskets. The angels seem to like teams that don't give up 70+ points a game when their season average is in the low to mid 60s. Just in case, of course. It's not just luck and I never made that argument. But just because it's more than luck doesn't mean the NCAA tournament is at all effective at determining the best teams or weeding out bad teams or anything that is get's credit for doing. For instance, our 2007 team was clearly our best team under III. However, we were very VERY lucky in that tournament. A few bad bounces in that game against BC, we would be talking about our 8 year streak of first round losses. What does that mean? Nothing. But we were a elite team that year and needed a lot of angel kisses to be recognized as such. Would we have been any worse of a team had the ref called a travel on Green against Vandy? No. Would we be considered a worse team? Yes. The 2006 team is frequently discussed as the second best team under III, likely because they went to the Sweet Sixteen. I think there are a few teams that would easily be considered better had they not flamed out in the first weekend. My point: the tournament doesn't mean you are any better or worse of a team than you were before it started. Making a run doesn't mean you a good to great team. Losing doesn't mean you weren't any good. Do you really disagree with any of this, or do you think Florida Gulf Coast was a top 16 team in the country in 2013 and in 2008 we weren't a top 32 team in the country? You can't play all 300+ teams in D-1 and this is every team's chance to show what they can do. Everyone knows the rules of the game and the sport is decided with a single elimination tournament. That's how they crown a champion. Your regular season is a way to measure success, no doubt but so is the tournament. These teams are all conference champions or nationally respected and this is often their only opportunity to play each other. So whether you think FGCU is a top 16 team or not is irrelevant. They're playing for the title and every team in this tournament knows they have to bring their A-game because every game is against an accomplished team. It's not the regular season. It's a very different format but it is an accomplishment to do well in the tourney because it is short turnarounds versus high quality teams you've probably never played. It's tough and it is an important measure of a season.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 17:05:11 GMT -5
It's not just luck and I never made that argument. But just because it's more than luck doesn't mean the NCAA tournament is at all effective at determining the best teams or weeding out bad teams or anything that is get's credit for doing. For instance, our 2007 team was clearly our best team under III. However, we were very VERY lucky in that tournament. A few bad bounces in that game against BC, we would be talking about our 8 year streak of first round losses. What does that mean? Nothing. But we were a elite team that year and needed a lot of angel kisses to be recognized as such. Would we have been any worse of a team had the ref called a travel on Green against Vandy? No. Would we be considered a worse team? Yes. The 2006 team is frequently discussed as the second best team under III, likely because they went to the Sweet Sixteen. I think there are a few teams that would easily be considered better had they not flamed out in the first weekend. My point: the tournament doesn't mean you are any better or worse of a team than you were before it started. Making a run doesn't mean you a good to great team. Losing doesn't mean you weren't any good. Do you really disagree with any of this, or do you think Florida Gulf Coast was a top 16 team in the country in 2013 and in 2008 we weren't a top 32 team in the country? You can't play all 300+ teams in D-1 and this is every team's chance to show what they can do. Everyone knows the rules of the game and the sport is decided with a single elimination tournament. That's how they crown a champion. Your regular season is a way to measure success, no doubt but so is the tournament. These teams are all conference champions or nationally respected and this is often their only opportunity to play each other. So whether you think FGCU is a top 16 team or not is irrelevant. They're playing for the title and every team in this tournament knows they have to bring their A-game because every game is against an accomplished team. It's not the regular season. It's a very different format but it is an accomplishment to do well in the tourney because it is short turnarounds versus high quality teams you've probably never played. It's tough and it is an important measure of a season. DId I ever say it wasn't an accomplishment? I simply said doing well doesn't mean you are a great team and doing poorly doesn't mean you are a bad team. If we won two games we still wouldn't be as good of a team as the 2013 team, the 2011 team, the 2010 team or the 2008 team, so I disagree it's an important measure of a season. It's actually a pretty terrible measure of a season, which is why FGCU being a top 16 team is irrelevant. If you are measuring the season by the tournament than they are a top 16 team. But they weren't you and know they weren't, they just got lucky and had to face us in that first game. And let's not act like the NCAA tournament is really the best way to figure out who the best teams this is the only chance for them to truly figure it out. Please, the tournament is all about entertainment and money. If it had anything to do with finding out who the best teams were, this Georgetown team would not be invited because we would not and should not be in the conversation for who the best team in the country is. If the tournament was really about figuring out who the "best" was you would do some sort of play-off system or only include the best team from each conference or pretty much anything else. The current tournament structure isn't a even a solid way to measure a season, let alone an important one. If it was that 2001 Georgetown team would dominate all but 2 of III's team. But no, luck definitely wasn't involved in THAT team advancing to the sweet sixteen. They were definitely a top 16 team in the country.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 14, 2015 18:32:56 GMT -5
Hi guys After our recent early outs, I am sure this year is going to be different. Why?? Let me explain. Two years ago I started a thread Is Otto wearing down. No one agreed with me at the time, but I still think I was correct. Anyway what is different now. We have infinitely more depth and in the two weeks before this we only had one game per week. Add to that that DSR was rested yesterday and you have a team that is not worn down. I don't know how far we will get in the tournament, but I bet we look a whole lot better. What do you guys think? Jerry I first want to see the draw and how we match up. I'd hope we would win our first game since we will be a high seed. Yes. I know the 5/12 game has been like 50-50. Still Id hope we can win that one. I do think with the right draw we can get to the elite 8. Things have to break right though. Dsr has to be dominant, smith has to stay out of foul trouble and oh yeah not be in kentucky bracket.
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HometownHoya
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 14, 2015 18:52:31 GMT -5
I think the NCAA needs to become round robin style. Every gets separated into soccer style groups with the top 2 from each group advancing. So on and so forth until you're left with a final 2.
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