njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 28, 2015 17:14:52 GMT -5
Plus/minus numbers for this afternoon's game, as calculated from the play-by-play at guhoyas.com:
Cameron +4, Campbell even, White even, Bowen -2, Smith -6, Hopkins -7, Peak -9, Copeland -9, Smith-Rivera -12, Trawick -14.
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Air Jordan
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As the Hoyas continue their full court press the Kentucky Wildcats have went scoreless
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Post by Air Jordan on Feb 28, 2015 17:16:53 GMT -5
Next year we should take a nice leap on both sides of the ball. All the freshmen are hitting the wall right now and it should be expected. We all as fans and alumni wants so bad for this team to return to the 80's greatness but I think with the current team we have right now we are where we are supposed to be a bubble top 30 team
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Feb 28, 2015 17:26:00 GMT -5
Next year we should take a nice leap on both sides of the ball. All the freshmen are hitting the wall right now and it should be expected. We all as fans and alumni wants so bad for this team to return to the 80's greatness but I think with the current team we have right now we are where we are supposed to be a bubble top 30 team The greatness of the 80's is gone forever. I think even old timers like myself know that. Those teams would handle any team in college right now...would roll over Kentucky of this year. But,,,we did make Final Four in 2007 and lost a two point game to national champ Fla the year before in the Sweet 16. So,,,those less distant times would be nice to recapture,
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Feb 28, 2015 17:28:06 GMT -5
Was at game, thought we would come back at some point and it never materialized. I thought st john's played a terrific game. For us, the absence of significant contributions from Copeland and Smith made for a long afternoon. But no need to panic, we'll be fine.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Feb 28, 2015 18:20:00 GMT -5
When we started the 2nd half, I thought we had a chance, but we did not play much differently than we played in the 1st half and SJU continued to shoot and defend well.
I think at least one foul on Josh was just because he was big; I saw nothing other than incidental contact. I think one of the main reasons he is taken out of the game is that he is frustrated on how the refs call the game on him. And yes the team could have done a better job on their entry passes into him. I remember just one good one.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 28, 2015 18:41:37 GMT -5
Does anyone have the freshmen' s stats at home as opposed to on the road. Ike I know has played poorly at Xavier, nova and now StJ.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 28, 2015 18:47:21 GMT -5
When we started the 2nd half, I thought we had a chance, but we did not play much differently than we played in the 1st half and SJU continued to shoot and defend well. I think at least one foul on Josh was just because he was big; I saw nothing other than incidental contact. I think one of the main reasons he is taken out of the game is that he is frustrated on how the refs call the game on him. And yes the team could have done a better job on their entry passes into him. I remember just one good one. In the last semester of his college career, Josh needs to be able to better control his frustrations. I know getting hacked and banged all game wears on you, but we need him to be able to stay in the game.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 28, 2015 18:54:11 GMT -5
When we started the 2nd half, I thought we had a chance, but we did not play much differently than we played in the 1st half and SJU continued to shoot and defend well. I think at least one foul on Josh was just because he was big; I saw nothing other than incidental contact. I think one of the main reasons he is taken out of the game is that he is frustrated on how the refs call the game on him. And yes the team could have done a better job on their entry passes into him. I remember just one good one. In the last semester of his college career, Josh needs to be able to better control his frustrations. I know getting hacked and banged all game wears on you, but we need him to be able to stay in the game. Agree, but at this juncture, it may already be too late. I may be wrong, but I don't remember Mike Sweetney ever reacting to the hacking he received leading to the rant by the coach who preceded JTIII.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 19:50:19 GMT -5
In fairness to Josh, it's hard not to get frustrated when you don't actually commit a foul. His first was a joke. Pointer ran into him at high speed, bounced off him and threw up a wild shot. His third (on the first possession of the second half) was even worse. Pointer worked his way around Josh for the layup, and it looked awkward because it was such a long trip. The ref who was 10 feet away and starting at the play didn't make the call, but the ref who had a bad angle from 40 feet away, out near halfcourt, did. That was just ridiculous. The officials need to have a mechanism to overturn that. Like, the guy who was closer and watching the play should be able to say "You know what, there was nothing there." Kind of like picking up the flag in football.
Josh's fifth foul was dumb, though. That one was on him.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 28, 2015 20:37:10 GMT -5
In addition to the discussion about how St. John's controlled pace today, we should note one particular bit of tone-setting that began with the starting lineup.
Chris Obekpa's been coming off the bench for a while, and when we played in DC he was clearly banged up. In the previous game, Lavin started the seldom-used Joey De La Rosa at center, and the results were not good: he picked up two fouls in the first three minutes, came back later in the first half and picked up his third half a minute later. Josh didn't light the world on fire early in that game, but he did shoot a lot early, and he and Hop combined for 10-14 from the field and 11 FTs as SJU resorted to Obekpa-on-one-leg (Josh ate him up in the second half) and Amir Alibegovich (did he even play today?). We established enough of a tone early pounding the interior, and largely controlled the pace throughout.
Today, Lavin went smaller and put Jamal Branch in the starting lineup, in effect leaving Sir'Dominic Pointer the man-to-man option for Josh. But SJU did a tremendous job fronting and denying post entries--they knocked at least three lob entries away in the early minutes--so Josh in the first half had 2 points on one shot and a missed putback. When SJU was on offense, Pointer was very intelligent early on--he got the ball in a lot of 6-10 foot areas and made Josh choose to come out (and get blown by) or concede the short jumper. Though Josh didn't play the entire 8 minutes before his 2nd foul, Pointer's 8 points on 6 shots during that time underlines the aggressive approach that set a different tone in this game vs. in DC.
We kind of dump on Lavin's "strategy" such that it is, but the reason it worked today is because SJU is more athletic than us at basically every position. I still don't think it's an efficient way to use his talent--the long jumper doesn't give you value for money (though when Gene Keady hangs 'em up, Randy Wittman should be available to fill that seat)--but when SJU does hit jumpers, it causes all sorts of problems. And hey, if Len Elmore draws it then it must be true: they did a great job driving and spreading the floor for ball rotation.
In the end, it regresses to something approaching a truism: if you control the tempo and style of play, you're more likely to win.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 28, 2015 20:53:24 GMT -5
Good post besides point 6.. I'll admit I'm a big fan of PW and I know his game has dropped off during conference play but how can you mention White's play but not Peak's? Peak very rarely finishes now & can't throw it in the ocean from outside but he gets a pass? White's last jumper from the corner was awful but he was square on the other shots, they're just not dropping.. Frazier mentioned this too but I don't remember White being a big driver of the ball early in the season.. I think you are both being to hard on the freshman. They are both having trouble getting the ball in the hoop, yes, but the last few games they've improved everything else offensively and defensively. I love Copeland but he kills us defensively if he isn't scoring, the same isn't true for Peak or White. That may well be true, Sleepy. And Etomic, you're certainly right that Peak hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire. I guess I'm just seeing with PW more of a confidence issue. LJ may not be finishing either, but if this makes any sense, he doesn't look as bad not finishing it. I see Paul get the ball right now and I just see someone hoping something positive happens. I'm not dumping on him. I think he is going to be be very good for us. He was earlier in the year. It would just be awfully nice if he picked the next ten games to do it again. (OK...eleven....)
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 28, 2015 21:07:56 GMT -5
Good post besides point 6.. I'll admit I'm a big fan of PW and I know his game has dropped off during conference play but how can you mention White's play but not Peak's? Peak very rarely finishes now & can't throw it in the ocean from outside but he gets a pass? White's last jumper from the corner was awful but he was square on the other shots, they're just not dropping.. Frazier mentioned this too but I don't remember White being a big driver of the ball early in the season.. I think you are both being to hard on the freshman. They are both having trouble getting the ball in the hoop, yes, but the last few games they've improved everything else offensively and defensively. I love Copeland but he kills us defensively if he isn't scoring, the same isn't true for Peak or White. LJ was very very bad on D today. Blown by for lay-ups, allowed at least 3 wide open 3s.
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Post by grandmahoya on Feb 28, 2015 22:08:05 GMT -5
Was at game today. The deck was stacked against us from the very start. MSG was packed, all wearing red. Senior day with families. A determined, desperate SJU team, looking for payback. The refs were the sixth man and didn't help us any. Only two of our players came to play, which is frightening. Kudos to Hop and DSR. The final score of only an eleven point lead did not reflect the game, we were never in it. JTIII was desperately searching for offense in the game, but it just wasn't there. Winning on the road against good teams is brutal. We were 10 for 19 from the free throw line. Not acceptable. Can't figure Josh out at all. He knows he's a target and always seems to have his big body in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bad ref calls were not why we lost, but definitely a factor. Not much time [3 days] before Butler game, but we need to get our act together in a hurry. The freshman didn't show up today on D or O, way too many turnovers. We beat Butler at home. Let's do it on the road and of course, Seton Hall is a must win on our Senior Night. Go Hoyas.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 4:22:45 GMT -5
I think you are both being to hard on the freshman. They are both having trouble getting the ball in the hoop, yes, but the last few games they've improved everything else offensively and defensively. I love Copeland but he kills us defensively if he isn't scoring, the same isn't true for Peak or White. LJ was very very bad on D today. Blown by for lay-ups, allowed at least 3 wide open 3s. LJ's defense ties into FLHoyas's post about St. Johns being more athletic than us and making shots at all 3 levels yesterday. When your guy starts out making 3's you close out harder. LJ started doing that and Branch, Greene and Jordan started driving to the hoop for uncontested layups. Sometimes you're interior defenders can help you recover when this happens but St. Johns is so quick and athletic there was little that could be done. After that you could tell LJ was mixed up and and St. Johns was getting pretty much anything they wanted. Then when they made their mid-range shots, it was over. I actually like that JT3 went to the zone to try to slow them down and it actually worked for a bit. St. Johns went through a couple ruts where they stalled but we couldnt score either to get within striking range. FLHoya's other good point about St. Johns fronting Josh and deflecting passes into the post was huge here. It was a pain to get him the ball all day and then he was swarmed upon getting a touch. Understandable how Josh woulda been frustrated. This was one of those times I would have liked to see Peak, Trawick, and DSR drive to the basket and look for the dump-off pass to Josh near the hoop, or some Iso sets for Josh on one side of the court to hurt SJU on some of their doubles.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 1, 2015 8:29:02 GMT -5
Peak had been improving on defense but definitely had a setback yesterday. Copeland had also shown signs of improvement on defense but was really off yesterday. Those fans who were upset that Bowen played were not watching the performance put in by Copeland in the first half--he was completely overmatched. The dilemma for JT III this year is that he has a poor shooting team, a massive and immobile post who cannot stay on the floor because of fouls and conditioning and a bunch of freshmen with promising futures. However, potential does not always equal production. Of the four freshmen who play alot only Copeland has been progressing steadily as the season has continued. The others have been up and down or somewhat regressing. That is neither shocking nor a bad omen for the future--it's just what freshmen experience. When the Hoyas are off they seemingly cannot do anything right, whether it's missed FTs, missed layups, forced entry passes to Smith or Hopkins when they are double-teamed or simply executing their man-to-man defense. That is not going to change over the next three weeks. It is a consistently, inconsistent team.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 1, 2015 10:18:43 GMT -5
There are soo many issues on this team that this game pointed out to me clearly and explains our continued inconsistency which we will see for the 3 weeks when our season ends.
First i in no way buy into the freshman wall theory. White has been on a downward slide for well over a month and Copeland is getting lots of attention defensively, Peak has not been the same since he went down a few weeks ago,Campbell, well hopefully he can bring something next year.
No need to go into issues regarding the 5 position the discussion have gone on for a while.
The backcourt perhaps with the exception of DSR is a microcosym of issue with the dysfunction of the roster. For a program that has excelled with players with skilled players under III the backcourt currently has limited shooting passing and nandling ability. Outside of DSR not sure if anyone else would even start for more than a couple of teams in the league.
We have have a big lineup and depth with size and yet we play very small. Clearly that was the case against STj. Copeland and White constantly playing out on the perimeter seems like a misuse of size and if they are not hiiting from outside we are at a distinct disadvantage against the clearly smaller quicker and offensively minded opposition. Perhaps i must have missed it but have we actually looked to post up either of them at all down low against a size mismatch all season. The only time i can recall is Trawick posting up a smaller match.
While i may appear overly negative this is still a team that can easily run off 4 wins and go against Nova and find some matchups into the second weekend of the tourney, or flameout at 1-4 losing on thursday in New York and to a 10 seed in Jacksonville.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 1, 2015 11:00:09 GMT -5
There are soo many issues on this team that this game pointed out to me clearly and explains our continued inconsistency which we will see for the 3 weeks when our season ends. First i in no way buy into the freshman wall theory. White has been on a downward slide for well over a month and Copeland is getting lots of attention defensively, Peak has not been the same since he went down a few weeks ago,Campbell, well hopefully he can bring something next year. No need to go into issues regarding the 5 position the discussion have gone on for a while. The backcourt perhaps with the exception of DSR is a microcosym of issue with the dysfunction of the roster. For a program that has excelled with players with skilled players under III the backcourt currently has limited shooting passing and nandling ability. Outside of DSR not sure if anyone else would even start for more than a couple of teams in the league. We have have a big lineup and depth with size and yet we play very small. Clearly that was the case against STj. Copeland and White constantly playing out on the perimeter seems like a misuse of size and if they are not hiiting from outside we are at a distinct disadvantage against the clearly smaller quicker and offensively minded opposition. Perhaps i must have missed it but have we actually looked to post up either of them at all down low against a size mismatch all season. The only time i can recall is Trawick posting up a smaller match. While i may appear overly negative this is still a team that can easily run off 4 wins and go against Nova and find some matchups into the second weekend of the tourney, or flameout at 1-4 losing on thursday in New York and to a 10 seed in Jacksonville. Pretty accurate assessment sleepy. I think we have posted Like a few times with mismatches; Paul does not seem to have the moves yet to take advantage underneath, but it should come with off-season work.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 1, 2015 12:39:36 GMT -5
St. John's came out and hit difficult shots and we missed a lot of bunnies and turned it over early. We absolutely could have come back in this game behind some strong offensive rebound and DSR but:
* We never turned them over all -- and that generates easy points for us usually * When we started coming back we also started fouling/getting fouls called on us * Aside from DSR, we can't shoot * Josh needs to stay on the floor
There's absolutely some things that are going to bite us there all the time (the fouls) but there's controllables that don't always bite us (sometimes we shoot well, we usually force more turnovers, Josh is capable of staying on the floor sometimes).
The team is flawed and we're not likely to suddenly flip a switch for six games in a row, but it's also not impossible to see us coming out and turning it back on for another three game wine streak here or there.
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jld
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Post by jld on Mar 1, 2015 13:11:40 GMT -5
Without an effective Josh Smith this is an average BE team. Attended the game yesterday and it was clear that Josh did not show up to play. I am concerned about the comments re: gaining weight -- this shows a lack of focus and discipline and we will go nowhere.
DSR and the seniors played hard and the frosh were ineffective, but without any inside game SJU gave DSR his and the flaws -- talent-wise and experience-wise -- showed and prevented a consistent game.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 1, 2015 13:15:35 GMT -5
St. John's came out and hit difficult shots and we missed a lot of bunnies and turned it over early. We absolutely could have come back in this game behind some strong offensive rebound and DSR but: * We never turned them over all -- and that generates easy points for us usually * When we started coming back we also started fouling/getting fouls called on us * Aside from DSR, we can't shoot * Josh needs to stay on the floor There's absolutely some things that are going to bite us there all the time (the fouls) but there's controllables that don't always bite us (sometimes we shoot well, we usually force more turnovers, Josh is capable of staying on the floor sometimes). The team is flawed and we're not likely to suddenly flip a switch for six games in a row, but it's also not impossible to see us coming out and turning it back on for another three game wine streak here or there. Can't help but think all of those missed bunnies changed the entire complexion of the game. Not saying the Hoyas would have won, but if they hit some of the easy shots, they keep it closer while withstanding SJU's blistering start. Missed bunnies has been a frustration all year.
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