canissaxa
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Post by canissaxa on Feb 28, 2015 14:40:27 GMT -5
But you have to admit this team is supposed to be better than last year's team? St. Johns is definitely a better shooting team than we are and while I think this team could potentially match their athleticism when they run up and down the floor we're clearly both uncomfortable running that much and are not intelligent enough with the basketball on the offensive end or in our transition D to play that way. We played right in to their hands today, whether that's freshman getting caught up in the MSG atmosphere or early foul trouble or whatever, we couldn't turn the tide in our favor and force the Johnnies to play our way. Huh. Could have sworn we pushed the pace in the last game, tired them out and won by 20. Couldn't have happened I guess, based on this post hoc analysis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 14:40:32 GMT -5
Hop with 10 offensive boards today. He had a couple of ill advised plays but overall he played quite well today. How many of those were rebounds of his own missed layups, though? You shouldn't get full credit for those.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 28, 2015 14:41:38 GMT -5
Handful of thoughts:
(1) I thought St.J. played very well on both ends of the court but particularly on offense. They ran effectively and finished when they did. They made tough shots at the rim. They made their open threes and some contested threes. And they (contrary to the conventional wisdom) properly took air out of the ball fairly early. (It's always interesting how people complain about that when it doesn't work but never acknowledge when it does.)
(2) I thought their mid-range game really led to a lot of our foul trouble. We had to stay up on their drivers since they were effectively stopping and hitting medium range jumpers.
(3) Our defense though was pretty poor overall. The zone didn't look very good (which is why I assume we don't see it too often). And we just fail to move our feet a lot. It's not just Josh (though it certainly includes him).
(4) I can't say enough about Hopper this game. One thing I really, really liked that I haven't seen him do previously was that he dribbled out of the paint probably ten times when he had the ball. He didn't try to back his man down but realized, instead, that doing so isn't his game. He's a great rim protector, particularly for his size. DSR, obviously, played very well also.
(5) I can't believe people are talking about our not pressing. I saw us do it four times. Twice they broke it easily, and twice they got wide open threes that they made. Again: credit the Johnnies and Lavin. They obviously knew we had done it to them last game, they obviously worked on it, and whatever they worked on was successful. They made a successful adjustment.
(6) PW is just lost offensively. Just so much tentativeness driving the ball (that reverse attempt?) and on the glass. And the outside shots completely lack confidence right now.
(7) Josh has to be smart, but the rest of the team does too. The entry passes were abysmal. Abysmal! Throwing to the wrong hand, forcing the ball, not giving it to him the couple times he was open. We really need to work out what we're going to do when he's doubled before getting the ball. Quick reversals for open shots or even ball fakes to get rid of the double. We're going to continue to see it.
Bottom line: We lost to a decent team on the road that has been playing well and was desperate for a win on Senior Day -- when their seniors have never been to the NCAAs. I mean, it's never good to be out-efforted (and we were), but it's certainly understandable that we got 125% effort from St. John's.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Feb 28, 2015 14:43:24 GMT -5
Hop with 10 offensive boards today. He had a couple of ill advised plays but overall he played quite well today. How many of those were rebounds of his own missed layups, though? You shouldn't get full credit for those. So at least today he rebounded them. I've rarely seen him with 10 offensive boards.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Feb 28, 2015 14:44:43 GMT -5
Final Thoughts:
1. DSR and Hopper scored 49 of the Hoyas 70 pts today
2. 14 Assts. vs 14 T.O's, this issue has not been addressed... this team is not going very far with that type of ratio
3. Freshmen Foursome (Ike, Peak, White, Campbell) 13pts, 4/22 FG's, 16 Rebs, 4 Assts-- I do not know if collectively they have regressed or are not being coached up, but as a group they are not living up to the hype
4. Josh Smith 5 pts vs 5 fouls
5. Time to move on to Butler and if this team is in a tail spin then it will show on Tues. nite @ 7 p.m.
St. John's should not be out playing the Hoyas to this level, on national t.v. Considering what is on the line and the point in the season where the schedule is at. Execept for the the first 4 mins, this game was never competitive and St. John's lead never got down to single digits in 2nd half.
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canissaxa
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Post by canissaxa on Feb 28, 2015 14:45:42 GMT -5
Handful of thoughts: (1) I thought St.J. played very well on both ends of the court but particularly on offense. They ran effectively and finished when they did. They made tough shots at the rim. They made their open threes and some contested threes. And they (contrary to the conventional wisdom) properly took air out of the ball fairly early. (It's always interesting how people complain about that when it doesn't work but never acknowledge when it does.) (2) I thought their mid-range game really led to a lot of our foul trouble. We had to stay up on their drivers since they were effectively stopping and hitting medium range jumpers. (3) Our defense though was pretty poor overall. The zone didn't look very good (which is why I assume we don't see it too often). And we just fail to move our feet a lot. It's not just Josh (though it certainly includes him). (4) I can't say enough about Hopper this game. One thing I really, really liked that I haven't seen him do previously was that he dribbled out of the paint probably ten times when he had the ball. He didn't try to back his man down but realized, instead, that doing so isn't his game. He's a great rim protector, particularly for his size. DSR, obviously, played very well also. (5) I can't believe people are talking about our not pressing. I saw us do it four times. Twice they broke it easily, and twice they got wide open threes that they made. Again: credit the Johnnies and Lavin. They obviously knew we had done it to them last game, they obviously worked on it, and whatever they worked on was successful. They made a successful adjustment. (6) PW is just lost offensively. Just so much tentativeness driving the ball (that reverse attempt?) and on the glass. And the outside shots completely lack confidence right now. (7) Josh has to be smart, but the rest of the team does too. The entry passes were abysmal. Abysmal! Throwing to the wrong hand, forcing the ball, not giving it to him the couple times he was open. We really need to work out what we're going to do when he's doubled before getting the ball. Quick reversals for open shots or even ball fakes to get rid of the double. We're going to continue to see it. Bottom line: We lost to a decent team on the road that has been playing well and was desperate for a win on Senior Day -- when their seniors have never been to the NCAAs. I mean, it's never good to be out-efforted (and we were), but it's certainly understandable that we got 125% effort from St. John's. This. Refreshing to see solid, specific analysis instead of irrational optimism, pessimism, or flat out trolling.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Feb 28, 2015 14:45:53 GMT -5
St. Johns is definitely a better shooting team than we are and while I think this team could potentially match their athleticism when they run up and down the floor we're clearly both uncomfortable running that much and are not intelligent enough with the basketball on the offensive end or in our transition D to play that way. We played right in to their hands today, whether that's freshman getting caught up in the MSG atmosphere or early foul trouble or whatever, we couldn't turn the tide in our favor and force the Johnnies to play our way. Huh. Could have sworn we pushed the pace in the last game, tired them out and won by 20. Couldn't have happened I guess, based on this post hoc analysis. So how do you explain the 7 or 8 first half turnovers, before we slowed the pace and went zone? Notice I did say we could potentially match their athleticism in an up and down game, we didn't today and they ran us into a double digit lead early. Is that not what happened?
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 28, 2015 14:50:21 GMT -5
Our record against teams that are .500 or better in the Big East: 3-7.
Need to be realistic about this team. Semis at BET and a single tournament win is probably the ceiling.
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canissaxa
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Post by canissaxa on Feb 28, 2015 14:50:41 GMT -5
Huh. Could have sworn we pushed the pace in the last game, tired them out and won by 20. Couldn't have happened I guess, based on this post hoc analysis. So how do you explain the 7 or 8 first half turnovers, before we slowed the pace and went zone? Notice I did say we could potentially match their athleticism in an up and down game, we didn't today and they ran us into a double digit lead early. Is that not what happened? My quibble is that your post stated that our strategy was doomed to failure for structural reasons (i.e. not execution) when the same strategy worked rather resoundingly against the same opponent a very short time ago. Not arguing that we won the game or that the strategy succeeded. Just that the strategy wasn't doomed to failure from the start.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 28, 2015 14:51:38 GMT -5
Final Thoughts:1. DSR and Hopper scored 49 of the Hoyas 70 pts today 2. 14 Assts. vs 14 T.O's, this issue has not been addressed... this team is not going very far with that type of ratio 3. Freshmen Foursome (Ike, Peak, White, Campbell) 13pts, 4/22 FG's, 16 Rebs, 4 Assts-- I do not know if collectively they have regressed or are not being coached up, but as a group they are not living up to the hype 4. Josh Smith 5 pts vs 5 fouls 5. Time to move on to Butler and if this team is in a tail spin then it will show on Tues. nite @ 7 p.m. St. John's should not be out playing the Hoyas to this level, on national t.v. Considering what is on the line and the point in the season where the schedule is at. Execept for the the first 4 mins, this game was never competitive and St. John's lead never got down to single digits in 2nd half. Man, you just don't like our team do you? In a tailspin? We'd won three in a row before this! Losing two consecutive games after to that to NCAA teams on the road would not equal a tailspin! Turnovers? We averaged 11 a game the three previous games. That was a lot better than we had done earlier in the year. Not great today, obviously, but saying it "has not been addressed" just isn't right. The freshmen? White I'll give you, but Ike clearly hasn't "regressed," though he didn't play great today. He's progressed wonderfully throughout the year. Tre has had his moments in limited time -- I certainly wouldn't say he's regressed either. And LJ, frankly, has shown high level play against low level opponents. Maybe that's regression, but I think it's just a quality of opponent issue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 14:53:29 GMT -5
Takes a lot of pressure off for March I guess that's true if you thought wins over DePaul, Marquette and seton hall portended a final four run. At the same time I wouldn't be sure of a first round loss either. St. John's is a tourney team and we've seen both sides of the coin against them. Whether we win or lose to a tourney team all depends on if we can dictate tempo and limit turnovers. If not well... Today st. John's sped us up and got tons of easy layups. They shot the 3 well but not that much better than us. The difference was I felt like they were constantly getting non-contested layups. A lot of these came after we scored which signals inattentolive defense and a lot came off turnovers which signals careless offense. We can clean these things up-- we've shown we can. Or we can keep playing poorly. It's up to us. Finally props to Lavin and St. John's. They were smart with the ball and imposed their gameplan. While I will never delight in a gtown loss part of me has to laugh at our arrogance going into this game and I think of posters like drquigley who completely disrespected St. John's. Id like to think posters will take a sober approach here on out-- after wins and losses but I'm doubtful.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 14:56:25 GMT -5
How many of those were rebounds of his own missed layups, though? You shouldn't get full credit for those. So at least today he rebounded them. I've rarely seen him with 10 offensive boards. Fair point.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 28, 2015 14:56:37 GMT -5
Our record against teams that are .500 or better in the Big East: 3-7. Need to be realistic about this team. Semis at BET and a single tournament win is probably the ceiling. Well, we've had some very close defeats to some very good teams, too (including Provy in-conference and several out of conference). So, it's not like the great teams blow us out consistently. We can easily win a couple games with the ball and the matchups going the right way. But further to your general point, I would add that "not having any bad losses" is wonderful and all for overall record, RPI-purposes, and earning a bid. But once you get to the NCAAs, you aren't playing any bad teams.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 14:58:53 GMT -5
Handful of thoughts: (1) I thought St.J. played very well on both ends of the court but particularly on offense. They ran effectively and finished when they did. They made tough shots at the rim. They made their open threes and some contested threes. And they (contrary to the conventional wisdom) properly took air out of the ball fairly early. (It's always interesting how people complain about that when it doesn't work but never acknowledge when it does.) (2) I thought their mid-range game really led to a lot of our foul trouble. We had to stay up on their drivers since they were effectively stopping and hitting medium range jumpers. (3) Our defense though was pretty poor overall. The zone didn't look very good (which is why I assume we don't see it too often). And we just fail to move our feet a lot. It's not just Josh (though it certainly includes him). (4) I can't say enough about Hopper this game. One thing I really, really liked that I haven't seen him do previously was that he dribbled out of the paint probably ten times when he had the ball. He didn't try to back his man down but realized, instead, that doing so isn't his game. He's a great rim protector, particularly for his size. DSR, obviously, played very well also. (5) I can't believe people are talking about our not pressing. I saw us do it four times. Twice they broke it easily, and twice they got wide open threes that they made. Again: credit the Johnnies and Lavin. They obviously knew we had done it to them last game, they obviously worked on it, and whatever they worked on was successful. They made a successful adjustment. (6) PW is just lost offensively. Just so much tentativeness driving the ball (that reverse attempt?) and on the glass. And the outside shots completely lack confidence right now. (7) Josh has to be smart, but the rest of the team does too. The entry passes were abysmal. Abysmal! Throwing to the wrong hand, forcing the ball, not giving it to him the couple times he was open. We really need to work out what we're going to do when he's doubled before getting the ball. Quick reversals for open shots or even ball fakes to get rid of the double. We're going to continue to see it. Bottom line: We lost to a decent team on the road that has been playing well and was desperate for a win on Senior Day -- when their seniors have never been to the NCAAs. I mean, it's never good to be out-efforted (and we were), but it's certainly understandable that we got 125% effort from St. John's. Great analysis
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Feb 28, 2015 15:00:44 GMT -5
So how do you explain the 7 or 8 first half turnovers, before we slowed the pace and went zone? Notice I did say we could potentially match their athleticism in an up and down game, we didn't today and they ran us into a double digit lead early. Is that not what happened? My quibble is that your post stated that our strategy was doomed to failure for structural reasons (i.e. not execution) when the same strategy worked rather resoundingly against the same opponent a very short time ago. Not arguing that we won the game or that the strategy succeeded. Just that the strategy wasn't doomed to failure from the start. I would counter that whether the strategy worked or not, it probably wasn't the proper strategy to employ because it plays into their strengthes and our weaknesses. We're a turnover prone team as it is increase the pace and that's magnified several-fold. We're not a great defensive team in transition, a few guys tend to lose their man even in the half court so there's really not a lot of hope for them in transition and we foul quite a lot. It takes Smith out of the game completely, if he doesn't do it himself, and it doesn't allow us to use our size to our advantage, Trawick and DSR are really the only guards proficient at finishing at the rim, and even if guys like Peak, Bowen, and Trawick get fouled, we're not a great free throw shooting team either. Maybe not doomed to failure, and it did work to some extent in the last game against them, but given enough opportunities, if I had to put money on it, I'd take St. Johns against us in a track meet every time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 15:01:08 GMT -5
The concern is not losing to St. Johns' but is St. Johns really a double digit victory better than the Hoyas on their homecourt? They have been two years in a row, so I'd have to answer this question "yes." Eh, once games game away from you-- especially if the tempo is off all game-- the margin of victory doesn't tell me much or mean much to me
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Feb 28, 2015 15:02:11 GMT -5
Final Thoughts:1. DSR and Hopper scored 49 of the Hoyas 70 pts today 2. 14 Assts. vs 14 T.O's, this issue has not been addressed... this team is not going very far with that type of ratio 3. Freshmen Foursome (Ike, Peak, White, Campbell) 13pts, 4/22 FG's, 16 Rebs, 4 Assts-- I do not know if collectively they have regressed or are not being coached up, but as a group they are not living up to the hype 4. Josh Smith 5 pts vs 5 fouls 5. Time to move on to Butler and if this team is in a tail spin then it will show on Tues. nite @ 7 p.m. St. John's should not be out playing the Hoyas to this level, on national t.v. Considering what is on the line and the point in the season where the schedule is at. Execept for the the first 4 mins, this game was never competitive and St. John's lead never got down to single digits in 2nd half. Final Grade: D
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Highsmith
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Post by Highsmith on Feb 28, 2015 15:09:51 GMT -5
Hop with 10 offensive boards today. He had a couple of ill advised plays but overall he played quite well today. How many of those were rebounds of his own missed layups, though? You shouldn't get full credit for those. Tell that to Moses Malone....
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 28, 2015 15:11:02 GMT -5
I think we should also give some credit to SJU. They obviously shot well, but from what I could tell, they also played very good D - especially in the 1st. We were totally out of psynch. Should Lavin get any credit for that? Dr. Q? This is exactly what I was saying about St. John's. They are loaded with talent but just don't seem to want to work hard enough every game to put a decent season together. How does this team lose to Creighton and DePaul and over 4 years never get an NCAA bid? I still put the onus on Lavin. It was shocking how unprepared they were when we went to a 2-3 zone. Had we not played so stupidly we could easily have gotten ourselves back in the game. But if he can keep them poised and ready and they do well in the NCAA I will take back my criticism of Lavin. They play at Marquette on Wednesday. Their ticket to the NCAA is punched. Away game against a weak opponent and out of the Big City lights. Let's see how they do. Meanwhile let me delete my recording of this game (after I add video of Josh Smith's fouls to my collage of "the stupidest Fouls in the History of College Basketball".
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Feb 28, 2015 15:19:04 GMT -5
I am finally accepting the fact that we are a bubble Top 25 team. Teams at that level, will invariably win some games in a row, which will get the fan base dreaming of a run to the Final Four. They will then, most certainly lose a couple that crush expectations. We will get a 6 or 7 NCAA seed, and if we are really lucky, will play well at the right time and escape the first weekend, before losing in the rd of 16. Just as likely, we go down in round one .
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