MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
|
Post by MCIGuy on Nov 12, 2013 16:54:48 GMT -5
We went 10 deep against a top 20 team. Let's wait and see before we start to excoriate Coach. I have not seen anything from hayes or Domingo to suggest they deserve more time, but let's remember they are sophs, we will se how they have improved. Remember, you get better and earn PT in practice, not in games. And Boeheim has done pretty well with 7 or 8 guys most years. And Calhoun was even more successful using a greater rotation. Come to think of it John Thompson Jr had a pretty good career using that tactic as well. Those guys allowed their benches to get into games, early and often. Even frehsmen players on the bench got run. And SOME players need that oncourt time to improve too either because they can't simulate their all-around ability as well in a practice setting or because they need extra assurance that they will be rewarded for practicing hard every day even if they still haven't yet mastered "the system" as well as their coaches may like. I am not one of those like DFW who think it is set in stone what III wil do. The reason why I gripe the way I do at times is because I actually think III may one day change his way of doing things when it comes to the rotation; my disappointment coming only when he does not and the final results end up the same. So I hope III manages to rotate 10 guys this seasons. What I don't get, and I've written this before, are Hoya fans who crave all of these recruits and then only want 3/5 of those recruits to see regular (or any) playing time; acting as if those players who are stuck on the bench should be honored just to wear the Hoya uniform. Players want to play; they at least want a chance to prove themselves on the court. So let them. The added bonus is it improves depth in case of injury or foul trouble.
|
|
This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
|
Post by This Just In on Nov 12, 2013 17:26:10 GMT -5
Should be a bounce back game. All hands on deck as everyone should play and hopefully the Hoyas can win this game by 15pts. plus.
|
|
|
Post by wahoohoya on Nov 12, 2013 18:33:14 GMT -5
Nate grabbed 6 defensive boards against oregon. There were complaints about his rebounding? Why? Hopkins did a much better job rebounding against oregon than he did last year, but only 2 of them were on the defensive end the rest of his 6 rebounds were on the offensive glass. Nate grabs some boards - I give him credit for that. But he also loses more than he should. I am not slamming the kid - I just think he should be a better rebounder than he is with the tools and smarts that he possesses. I don't blame it on lack of athleticism - I blame it on his approach. He often times out hustles himself and winds up losing balls that he was in a great position to get because he loses control of his body. And even worse, you often times see him coming out of nowhere to tip the ball out of bounds and away from a teammate that would have grabbed the rebound (or at least had a decent shot at it). To my taste, he just needs to settle down out there. I thought he would mature in this sense as an upperclassman, but it's the same old Nate out there. You take the good with the bad and overall he brings a lot to this team. I just expect more from him (and I don't really care about the lack of scoring). And I'm not saying Hopkins is the answer. Hopefully he has added some much needed strength in the off-season. I kind of gave Hopkins a pass last year - wasn't his fault he wasn't ready for such an increased role. But now he's an upperclassman as well and I do expect more from him this year on both sides of the ball.
|
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,352
|
Post by calhoya on Nov 12, 2013 18:36:42 GMT -5
We went 10 deep against a top 20 team. Let's wait and see before we start to excoriate Coach. I have not seen anything from hayes or Domingo to suggest they deserve more time, but let's remember they are sophs, we will se how they have improved. Remember, you get better and earn PT in practice, not in games. And Boeheim has done pretty well with 7 or 8 guys most years. And Calhoun was even more successful using a greater rotation. Come to think of it John Thompson Jr had a pretty good career using that tactic as well. Those guys allowed their benches to get into games, early and often. Even frehsmen players on the bench got run. And SOME players need that oncourt time to improve too either because they can't simulate their all-around ability as well in a practice setting or because they need extra assurance that they will be rewarded for practicing hard every day even if they still haven't yet mastered "the system" as well as their coaches may like. I am not one of those like DFW who think it is set in stone what III wil do. The reason why I gripe the way I do at times is because I actually think III may one day change his way of doing things when it comes to the rotation; my disappointment coming only when he does not and the final results end up the same. So I hope III manages to rotate 10 guys this seasons. What I don't get, and I've written this before, are Hoya fans who crave all of these recruits and then only want 3/5 of those recruits to see regular (or any) playing time; acting as if those players who are stuck on the bench should be honored just to wear the Hoya uniform. Players want to play; they at least want a chance to prove themselves on the court. So let them. The added bonus is it improves depth in case of injury or foul trouble. Completely agree with this. Not yet giving up on JT III expanding the rotation but getting close. My hope is that the realities of this year's team will require the coach to utilize the assets on the bench more. This is due in part to the absence of a well-rounded player like a Porter or Green and partly because each of the possible 6-8 players in a short rotation are still very much works in progress. Playing Bowen, Moses, and Cameron/Domingo in quality time against quality teams will pay major dividends come February or March, particularly on off nights for the starters or when someone is in foul trouble or injured. I just wish there was a way to get Hayes some time too, but understand that this is not likely. Hate to see the kid lose another season of eligibility for less than 25 minutes of playing time.
|
|
|
Post by wahoohoya on Nov 12, 2013 18:51:27 GMT -5
Completely agree with this. Not yet giving up on JT III expanding the rotation but getting close. My hope is that the realities of this year's team will require the coach to utilize the assets on the bench more. This is due in part to the absence of a well-rounded player like a Porter or Green and partly because each of the possible 6-8 players in a short rotation are still very much works in progress. Playing Bowen, Moses, and Cameron/Domingo in quality time against quality teams will pay major dividends come February or March, particularly on off nights for the starters or when someone is in foul trouble or injured. I just wish there was a way to get Hayes some time too, but understand that this is not likely. Hate to see the kid lose another season of eligibility for less than 25 minutes of playing time. Some good points in here. I remember an interview with JTIII a while back where he joked that one of his teams appeared deeper that year not because of more talent across the board but because of less talent across the board. With this year's team, I think JTIII will expand the rotation simply because there isn't much separation between players on the bench and other than maybe Starks, there is not a guy in the starting rotation that should or needs to play 35+ minutes per game . I know I'm probably a bit too harsh on Bowen, but I don't think he's good enough to play 20 minutes a game. So that leaves more minutes by default to guys like Domingo and Cameron if they are up to the task.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 12, 2013 19:39:59 GMT -5
While I don't think we should expect a defensive team like last years -- we've replaced minutes by Otto Porter with Josh Smith, for the most part (even just looking post-Whittington ineligibility). That's not a positive.
That said, the way that game was called was new -- and even if it does continue (unlikely, I think), everyone will adjust. The D will get better. The question is, Oregon fouled us a lot as well -- will the offense?
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
|
Post by lichoya68 on Nov 12, 2013 20:31:02 GMT -5
ten point favorites is ridiculous MUST BE READY this will be a very tough game must hit shots. defend and MOVE. adn rebbie and hit at least SOME threes. go hoyas rest AFTER THE GAME FOR THE NEXT EIGHT DAYS MUST WIN MUST WIN> GO HOYAS
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 12, 2013 22:30:23 GMT -5
We went 10 deep against a top 20 team. Let's wait and see before we start to excoriate Coach. I have not seen anything from hayes or Domingo to suggest they deserve more time, but let's remember they are sophs, we will se how they have improved. Remember, you get better and earn PT in practice, not in games. And Boeheim has done pretty well with 7 or 8 guys most years. And Calhoun was even more successful using a greater rotation. Come to think of it John Thompson Jr had a pretty good career using that tactic as well. Those guys allowed their benches to get into games, early and often. Even frehsmen players on the bench got run. And SOME players need that oncourt time to improve too either because they can't simulate their all-around ability as well in a practice setting or because they need extra assurance that they will be rewarded for practicing hard every day even if they still haven't yet mastered "the system" as well as their coaches may like. I am not one of those like DFW who think it is set in stone what III wil do. The reason why I gripe the way I do at times is because I actually think III may one day change his way of doing things when it comes to the rotation; my disappointment coming only when he does not and the final results end up the same. So I hope III manages to rotate 10 guys this seasons. What I don't get, and I've written this before, are Hoya fans who crave all of these recruits and then only want 3/5 of those recruits to see regular (or any) playing time; acting as if those players who are stuck on the bench should be honored just to wear the Hoya uniform. Players want to play; they at least want a chance to prove themselves on the court. So let them. The added bonus is it improves depth in case of injury or foul trouble. I would love to see us play 11 or 12 deep, because that would mean we have that many guys who can contribute. We will play everybody against our lesser competition. And if they show enough, they will all get plenty of chances. But when we play Kansas, Mich State and BE games we are not throwing guys in if they have not shown anything by then, either in the early games or in practice.
|
|
hoyaloya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 156
|
Post by hoyaloya on Nov 13, 2013 1:47:49 GMT -5
I agree with DFW - Domingo, Cameron, and Hayes need to get more time now.
|
|
HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,991
|
Post by HoyaFanNY on Nov 13, 2013 5:49:17 GMT -5
III may have to go small most of the game. they play one big with everyone else under 6'7". you are asking for trouble if you play josh and nate together. i'm hoping to see reggie play some at the 4. greg would be perfect in this kind of game (just like oregon). imagine a lineup with starks, dsr, jabril, greg and josh.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 13, 2013 7:59:35 GMT -5
I agree with DFW - Domingo, Cameron, and Hayes need to get more time now. Domingo and Cameron will. Hayes - we'll see if he has improved enough.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
|
Post by lichoya68 on Nov 13, 2013 8:57:46 GMT -5
AGREE WITH FRAZIER yup domingo and cameron yes have to see about bradley. go hoyas BE READY war coming not a gimme NO GIMMES> nope tired legless could be danger .
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Nov 13, 2013 9:24:46 GMT -5
Agreed - it would be nice to see Cameron and Domingo get minutes minutes in these early games.
Hayes probably won't see too much floor time with Hopkins and Moses soaking up most of the reserve minutes at PF/C.
It will be very interesting see how JTIII uses Hopkins and Moses off the bench. I think these 2 guys could prove to be one of the keys to the season. There will be games when Joshua is too tired or in foul trouble and these guys will need to step it up against big time comp. I actually am fairly constructive on their ability to fill that role.
Like most posters, team defense has me really really worried right now.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 13, 2013 9:49:27 GMT -5
The HoyaSaxa pregame report states the last Horizon Team we played was Cleveland State in 1997, but the Hoyas Played Butler in 2010 when Butler was still in the Horizon League.
|
|
richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by richfame on Nov 13, 2013 10:01:04 GMT -5
I agree with DFW - Domingo, Cameron, and Hayes need to get more time now. Whats has given you the idea that Hayes deserves more minutes? If we are up by 20 pts then im with you. Otherwise I dont think hes ready for prime time minutes. You probably mean you want smith playing more minutes.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 13, 2013 10:15:12 GMT -5
I am all for a bigger rotation if the guys deserve it. This year, we have a unique situation in that the SF position is wide open, and the people best suited for that position (Bowen/Cameron/Domingo) are generally inexperienced and unproven. That allows John Thompson III to play a wider rotation as he figures out who is best suited for the position.
I know that some people think that a bigger rotation is key to doing well in March. Ideally, I would say that's true, but only if the bench players can live up to the challenge, and if it makes sense. It's hard to argue that Hayes should get as much playing time as others, given that the depth at those positions is pretty deep.
Personally, I want to see whatever rotation is going to give us the best chance to win games. If that's 7, fine. If it's 10, that's fine too.
|
|
bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
|
Post by bmartin on Nov 13, 2013 10:21:36 GMT -5
What we need from Bowen/Cameron/Domingo to earn minutes, in priority order: 1. Defense 2. Rebounding 3. Don't turn the ball over 4. Look to feed the post from the wing 5. Take and make open shots but don't force it
|
|
royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,294
|
Post by royski on Nov 13, 2013 10:23:43 GMT -5
I want Josh Smith getting a post touch on 80% of our half court possessions when he's on the floor. Make them double consistently, then play inside out for the 3, or hit a backdoor. That should be the basis of this offense.
|
|
DoctorHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,544
|
Post by DoctorHoya on Nov 13, 2013 10:47:49 GMT -5
Hoyas adjust to whistle blowers, opening loss - Ben Standig - CSNWashington.com "The former UCLA transfer [Joshua Smith] has a size edge on most humans, but now defenders are virtually powerless when the big man establishes position on the low blocks. Though Wright State, considered a leading contender for the Horizon League title, is loaded with experience, the Raiders' roster does not sport a single player within 100 pounds of Smith' weight. Good luck." www.csnwashington.com/ncaa/hoyas-adjust-whistle-blowers-opening-loss Love it
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,911
|
Post by EtomicB on Nov 13, 2013 11:15:44 GMT -5
I agree with DFW - Domingo, Cameron, and Hayes need to get more time now. Whats has given you the idea that Hayes deserves more minutes? If we are up by 20 pts then im with you. Otherwise I dont think hes ready for prime time minutes. You probably mean you want smith playing more minutes. I for one have seen enough of Moses to know that he is what he is at this point in his career.. I don't know that about Hayes.. I know folks will say "did you see the 'cuse game last year? Yes I did & Moses was great but even with that tremendous game his overall impact on games is very low.. How bad must Hayes be in practice that he's not even on the radar of playing a few minutes a game? Also what does this say about the development skills of the staff if they can't get anything out of a 7ft athletic kid? I say throw Hayes out there and see how he responds, I doubt playing him for a 5-6 minute stretch is gonna cause the team to lose the game tonight..
|
|