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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 15, 2013 9:02:42 GMT -5
I think people are being overly harsh on Joshua's performance. It's always harder to go against a swarm of little players than another actual post player. Roy always struggled against Villanova when they swarmed him. The Refs don't call half the fouls when it's several little guys vs. 1 big guy. The swarming of Josh is what also gave DSR and Starks open looks. Regardless of whether Smith scores, if he garners double or triple teams and we take advantage, then there is a lot if value there even if its not evident on his box score line.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 15, 2013 9:14:28 GMT -5
What is almost as interesting (and fully predictable) is the wide migration of Hoyatalk posters' opinions about the success or failure of the team and individual players based on the small data samples of early season game-by-game performances.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by skyhoya on Nov 15, 2013 9:44:41 GMT -5
Dan,
Is this something new? It really gets worse based upon NCAA tourney show ups. The team is what the team is It will be completely different as our coach brings them along during the season. The Final Four team didn't look good at the beginning of the season, but looked great beating UNC in the Elite Eight.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 15, 2013 10:01:26 GMT -5
No, it's not new at all.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 15, 2013 10:20:14 GMT -5
What is almost as interesting (and fully predictable) is the wide migration of Hoyatalk posters' opinions about the success or failure of the team and individual players based on the small data samples of early season game-by-game performances. Sounds like SOMEONE is jealous that so many are able to fully and accurately evaluate and predict each player's contributions (or lack thereof) for the entire season after 80 minutes . Have faith Dan, you're young, you can still develop that ability.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,560
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 15, 2013 12:06:04 GMT -5
What is almost as interesting (and fully predictable) is the wide migration of Hoyatalk posters' opinions about the success or failure of the team and individual players based on the small data samples of early season game-by-game performances. Sounds like SOMEONE is jealous that so many are able to fully and accurately evaluate and predict each player's contributions (or lack thereof) for the entire season after 80 minutes . Have faith Dan, you're young, you can still develop that ability. Cute. No jealousy, just observational.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Filo on Nov 15, 2013 13:54:52 GMT -5
What is almost as interesting (and fully predictable) is the wide migration of Hoyatalk posters' opinions about the success or failure of the team and individual players based on the small data samples of early season game-by-game performances. Sounds like SOMEONE is jealous that so many are able to fully and accurately evaluate and predict each player's contributions (or lack thereof) for the entire season after 80 minutes . Have faith Dan, you're young, you can still develop that ability. Which makes me think of Nostradamus, one of my favorite prognosticators in these parts. I miss him (or her) ("I legend ahead...").
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by swhoya on Nov 15, 2013 14:52:40 GMT -5
At the risk of raising the wrath of Dan about trying to extrapolate too much from two games (just kidding-- I do think you're generally spot on), the one thing I haven't seen in these 2 games that is worrisome is any improvement from Nate. So it's not an observation about just two games, but the same criticism I had all last season. He just won't (can't?) shoot the mid-range. It's hurt us every single year that he's played, because defenses give him a wide open shot from the free throw line that he just won't take, and they sag down, taking away cuts. I hope he proves me wrong, but that's the one thing I wanted to see improvement on from Nate, and so far...still seems same old same old to me. At least Hop will take that jumper. And more than taking away cuts, it means the D can sag down on Josh Smith, taking away Nate's ability to lob it down over the top.
He doesn't have to make a lot of them. But if he would just show a willingness to shoot at all, it would free up the rest of the offense immensely. He's a good passer, but he's not helping himself in that regard.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 15, 2013 21:16:05 GMT -5
At the risk of raising the wrath of Dan about trying to extrapolate too much from two games (just kidding-- I do think you're generally spot on), the one thing I haven't seen in these 2 games that is worrisome is any improvement from Nate. So it's not an observation about just two games, but the same criticism I had all last season. He just won't (can't?) shoot the mid-range. It's hurt us every single year that he's played, because defenses give him a wide open shot from the free throw line that he just won't take, and they sag down, taking away cuts. I hope he proves me wrong, but that's the one thing I wanted to see improvement on from Nate, and so far...still seems same old same old to me. At least Hop will take that jumper. And more than taking away cuts, it means the D can sag down on Josh Smith, taking away Nate's ability to lob it down over the top. He doesn't have to make a lot of them. But if he would just show a willingness to shoot at all, it would free up the rest of the offense immensely. He's a good passer, but he's not helping himself in that regard. I agree. That's what the shooter's square or box is there for. If you're not a finesse player (like Nate) and you're given a free look by the defenders, then you should try to hit the box. It'll go in more than not. What cannot happen is a four-year player left open and he looks to pass around instead of look for the shot.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 15, 2013 21:27:00 GMT -5
I watched Josh play quite a bit his freshman year. Perhaps my memory is clouded by the passage of time, but my recollection is that he was a terror on the offensive glass, but also pulled down his share of defensive rebounds. I can't for the life of me understand how he only has one defensive rebound in two games.
I know Kenner isn't a barometer, but still, given the praise for Aaron's performances this summer, it's very disappointing to see that, at least thus far, that hasn't translated over to the court when it counts.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 15, 2013 21:30:50 GMT -5
I watched Josh play quite a bit his freshman year. Perhaps my memory is clouded by the passage of time, but my recollection is that he was a terror on the offensive glass, but also pulled down his share of defensive rebounds. I can't for the life of me understand how he only has one defensive rebound in two games. I know Kenner isn't a barometer, but still, given the praise for Aaron's performances this summer, it's very disappointing to see that, at least thus far, that hasn't translated over to the court when it counts. What does your "boy" balla think of DSR so far?
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Nov 16, 2013 3:46:59 GMT -5
pr, which is why I'd pull Nate most times and let Hops play his natural position; and he has a decent stroke. Still can't understand why he won't dunk though.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 16, 2013 7:57:40 GMT -5
I watched Josh play quite a bit his freshman year. Perhaps my memory is clouded by the passage of time, but my recollection is that he was a terror on the offensive glass, but also pulled down his share of defensive rebounds. I can't for the life of me understand how he only has one defensive rebound in two games. I know Kenner isn't a barometer, but still, given the praise for Aaron's performances this summer, it's very disappointing to see that, at least thus far, that hasn't translated over to the court when it counts. Josh averaged around 7 rebounds a game (6.9) as a freshman and it dropped to a little less than 5 his next year. The key to that first UCLA team though was that they had other bigs who rebounded well and Josh contributed but had much more support on the inside. They were simply big and athletic around him. Whether that plays out this year really depends upon the line-up. If Josh is going to be the main guy on the inside--as it appears likely for now--then rebounding is a definite challenge given his lack of mobility and quickness. Not certain that there is anything that can be done at this point in his conditioning.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 8:17:25 GMT -5
I watched Josh play quite a bit his freshman year. Perhaps my memory is clouded by the passage of time, but my recollection is that he was a terror on the offensive glass, but also pulled down his share of defensive rebounds. I can't for the life of me understand how he only has one defensive rebound in two games. I know Kenner isn't a barometer, but still, given the praise for Aaron's performances this summer, it's very disappointing to see that, at least thus far, that hasn't translated over to the court when it counts. What does your "boy" balla think of DSR so far? In one of his last posts on DSR, Balla posted that he wasn't good enough to play for the Hoyas and he should leave the team.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 18, 2013 19:11:23 GMT -5
I watched Josh play quite a bit his freshman year. Perhaps my memory is clouded by the passage of time, but my recollection is that he was a terror on the offensive glass, but also pulled down his share of defensive rebounds. I can't for the life of me understand how he only has one defensive rebound in two games. I know Kenner isn't a barometer, but still, given the praise for Aaron's performances this summer, it's very disappointing to see that, at least thus far, that hasn't translated over to the court when it counts. Josh averaged around 7 rebounds a game (6.9) as a freshman and it dropped to a little less than 5 his next year. The key to that first UCLA team though was that they had other bigs who rebounded well and Josh contributed but had much more support on the inside. They were simply big and athletic around him. Whether that plays out this year really depends upon the line-up. If Josh is going to be the main guy on the inside--as it appears likely for now--then rebounding is a definite challenge given his lack of mobility and quickness. Not certain that there is anything that can be done at this point in his conditioning. That's a good point Calhoya, but I still find in interesting that Hopkins, who, to put it gently, wasn't a very good rebounder last season, is much better this year, and that doesn't seem to be helping Josh out much. Also, he's still getting offensive rebounds - it's not like he's getting nothing. I haven't seen any games yet (screwed up my tape of the Oregon game, and don't have FS1 yet). Looking forward to seeing games this weekend, assuming we beat Northeastern. And prhoya,as for balla and DSR, take a guess.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 9:39:32 GMT -5
I also forgot to mention that Balla said that Cameron should leave the team because he too wasn't good enough to wear a Hoya uniform.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 20, 2013 9:43:41 GMT -5
I also forgot to mention that Balla said that Cameron should leave the team because he too wasn't good enough to wear a Hoya uniform. What a comedian!
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