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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 23, 2015 11:13:51 GMT -5
I agree with hoyasaxa2003 from personal experience. All my life I have eaten like it's going out of style and my body refused to put on weight. This includes time when I was very, very active as a youth and young man and other times where I was relatively inactive. Today I am a 6'4", 160 pound, relatively inactive 83 year old with a large appetite. Tell me why I don't weigh 290 pounds. Lack of desire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 12:17:03 GMT -5
Huh? I'm simply saying that unless you're at 100% peak physical condition already, you always have an opportunity to improve. Some statements made here imply that because of this malady or that affliction, some individuals can't possibly succeed in losing weight and/or getting in better shape. That's bull. Do you just think that there are some people who should be written off? That there's no hope for them no matter what they do? I think there are a few problems with your arguments: (1) Genetics are not different for Division 1 athletes. (2) Athletes like Josh Smith, despite being overweight, are still in relatively "good shape" compared to the average population. Could Smith run back and forth on the court for 10 straight minutes without getting winded? No, but I bet that most people posting on this message board could not do that either, and we are likely much smaller than him. (3) We really have no idea how much time, effort, etc. Smith put into his own conditioning, nor do we know his eating habits. However, it's true that many people do have difficulty losing weight and it's not simply a matter of eating less or trying harder. For some people, it's just difficult. I realize some people on here are not willing to accept that reality, but it's the truth. (4) Josh Smith did get in better shape between junior and senior year. That might have trailed off a bit as the season wore on, but the fact is that Smith was in much better shape than he was his junior year, so the idea that he didn't try at all is absurd. As I said, we really have no idea how much of that is on him and his effort because we aren't knowledgeable about it. There aren't people who should be "written off." The point isn't that it's impossible for people to get in better shape or lose weight. The point is that people pretending like it's an easy thing to do, and all about effort are not being fair. Look at it this way: we all likely know at least one or two people who can pretty much eat anything they want, whenever they want, and they do not gain weight (there are certainly many people like this in Smith's age group). Just like these people would struggle to gain weight if they had to, there are people who struggle to lose it even when they try hard. What irritates me is the implication that if you aren't having success you aren't trying, because that's simply not the case in every circumstance (again, no idea whether that's true for Smith or not). Appreciate the levelheaded-ness, 2003 (on this reply). I know all the arguments - medical, genetic, psychological, environmental - and I'm really not interested in any more discussion on the "why" part, in general. I grew up in a home with an Italian mother with Hypothyroidism and a Polish/German father who had most of his uncles & aunts die from Diabetes complications and heart failure. I'm certainly not fat-shaming anybody, and I don't need any more quasi-scientific replies either. I've got my own weight & fitness anecdotes... Just answer this - 1) Was Josh in peak physical shape (for him, whatever level that is) during his GU career? 2) If not, do you think there anything additional he COULD and SHOULD have done to achieve a better level of fitness? Simple yes or no. I don't need details. I know you couldn't have the real answer for either question (outside the locker room/Dr's office/Home/Josh's head), but give your honest assessment of each. Base it on whatever you want - coaches comments, general appearance, standard of play, anything you have access to. Also - I'm not asking if Josh worked hard. I'm sure he and the entire team did. Maybe there's an external factor that none of us know about that might complicate either question -- entirely possible. But ditch the devil's advocate stuff and professorial hooey that's permeated this thread. In Josh's case, what do you think? (p.s. - I never said or implied Josh should - or could - look like Marcus ) This is my last comment on the subject. I'll just read any replies that come back. Apologies in advance for revisiting well-trodden ground -- but the season's over. Marcus Derrickson retweeted Brian Levenson @brianlevenson · Apr 15 “Satisfaction lies in the effort, not in the attainment. Full effort is full victory.” --Mahatma Gandhi
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HometownHoya
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 23, 2015 12:46:51 GMT -5
I agree with hoyasaxa2003 from personal experience. All my life I have eaten like it's going out of style and my body refused to put on weight. This includes time when I was very, very active as a youth and young man and other times where I was relatively inactive. Today I am a 6'4", 160 pound, relatively inactive 83 year old with a large appetite. Tell me why I don't weigh 290 pounds. No enough milkshakes and bananas?
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dense
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Post by dense on Apr 23, 2015 12:50:34 GMT -5
I can't wait till next season already. There are a bunch of early games that can redefine our program and Marcus will be a huge part of that. He is so skilled offensively that I think he will be a huge asset in this early games vs Maryland and Duke.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Apr 23, 2015 13:01:17 GMT -5
Maybe I am delusional, but I think Marcus could be close to guys like Otto, Freeman, DSR and Summers in terms of freshman year performance. It is not reasonable to expect him to play as well as Jeff or Greg as a freshman, but I am (probably unreasonably) optimistic that he can outperform his HS rankings as a freshman - by a pretty significant margin. His skill level is very high, his level of HS competition is very strong, and he is in far better shape now than he ever was in high school. Defense would be the issue that could limit his playing time. Given how badly we need a 4 who can shoot really well from outside while providing enough bulk to defend/rebound the 4 position - if Marcus picks up the D fairly quickly , I think it is going to be hard to keep him off the court.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 23, 2015 13:05:07 GMT -5
If Marcus can shoot from three, he should get time. That's one of the major deficiencies of our lineup this past year. Really only DSR and Campbell shot threes well. I am hoping for Copeland to have an Otto-like jump on threes, but anybody else who can shoot threes shouldn't have a problem getting time on the floor unless they are hugely deficient otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 13:16:32 GMT -5
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 23, 2015 15:15:23 GMT -5
(2) Athletes like Josh Smith, despite being overweight, are still in relatively "good shape" compared to the average population. Could Smith run back and forth on the court for 10 straight minutes without getting winded? No, but I bet that most people posting on this message board could not do that either, and we are likely much smaller than him. Really 2003? That's your argument? That a player on a top 25 D1 college hoops team shouldn't be expected to be in better shape than the average couch potato? I admit I could not run up and down the court for 10 minutes of D1 level game time at this point in my life. But when I was a 21 year old college kid? You bet I could. And if I'd been training with the team all year? Of course. It was embarrassing that Josh had to come out after 3-4 minutes of play - constantly. And no, I don't believe for one second that kid could not have lost more weight had he committed to it. No one suggested he'd end up looking like Marcus or Jabril, but he sure as heck could look a lot fitter than he did. Remember how out of shape Roy was when he arrived? He worked at it and left in far better shape than when he arrived - and he kept it up when he got to the NBA. Now why didn't Josh? What emotional or motivational challenges did he have? I have no idea. From seeing his interviews and reading about him, he seems like a really nice kid, smart kid. But he was clearly not dedicated to seriously improving his body and fitness.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 23, 2015 16:02:02 GMT -5
(2) Athletes like Josh Smith, despite being overweight, are still in relatively "good shape" compared to the average population. Could Smith run back and forth on the court for 10 straight minutes without getting winded? No, but I bet that most people posting on this message board could not do that either, and we are likely much smaller than him. Really 2003? That's your argument? That a player on a top 25 D1 college hoops team shouldn't be expected to be in better shape than the average couch potato? I admit I could not run up and down the court for 10 minutes of D1 level game time at this point in my life. But when I was a 21 year old college kid? You bet I could. And if I'd been training with the team all year? Of course. It was embarrassing that Josh had to come out after 3-4 minutes of play - constantly. And no, I don't believe for one second that kid could not have lost more weight had he committed to it. No one suggested he'd end up looking like Marcus or Jabril, but he sure as heck could look a lot fitter than he did. Remember how out of shape Roy was when he arrived? He worked at it and left in far better shape than when he arrived - and he kept it up when he got to the NBA. Now why didn't Josh? What emotional or motivational challenges did he have? I have no idea. From seeing his interviews and reading about him, he seems like a really nice kid, smart kid. But he was clearly not dedicated to seriously improving his body and fitness. I think you are probably a little hard on Josh. Yes, Josh could have dedicated himself more to the game. yes, he should have gotten out there and ran as much and as hard as he could. Yes, he probably should have been more attentive to his diet, I don't know. However, I will say this: Josh a big guy, bone structure wise. I believe it is doubly hard for such a guy like him to lose the weight. Did he try? I believe he did. Did he try hard enough? I am not sure, but I am not going to beat up on Josh, especially not knowing all the facts pertaining to how he struggled with the weight.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 23, 2015 16:46:00 GMT -5
I think there are a few problems with your arguments: (1) Genetics are not different for Division 1 athletes. (2) Athletes like Josh Smith, despite being overweight, are still in relatively "good shape" compared to the average population. Could Smith run back and forth on the court for 10 straight minutes without getting winded? No, but I bet that most people posting on this message board could not do that either, and we are likely much smaller than him. (3) We really have no idea how much time, effort, etc. Smith put into his own conditioning, nor do we know his eating habits. However, it's true that many people do have difficulty losing weight and it's not simply a matter of eating less or trying harder. For some people, it's just difficult. I realize some people on here are not willing to accept that reality, but it's the truth. (4) Josh Smith did get in better shape between junior and senior year. That might have trailed off a bit as the season wore on, but the fact is that Smith was in much better shape than he was his junior year, so the idea that he didn't try at all is absurd. As I said, we really have no idea how much of that is on him and his effort because we aren't knowledgeable about it. There aren't people who should be "written off." The point isn't that it's impossible for people to get in better shape or lose weight. The point is that people pretending like it's an easy thing to do, and all about effort are not being fair. Look at it this way: we all likely know at least one or two people who can pretty much eat anything they want, whenever they want, and they do not gain weight (there are certainly many people like this in Smith's age group). Just like these people would struggle to gain weight if they had to, there are people who struggle to lose it even when they try hard. What irritates me is the implication that if you aren't having success you aren't trying, because that's simply not the case in every circumstance (again, no idea whether that's true for Smith or not). Appreciate the levelheaded-ness, 2003 (on this reply). I know all the arguments - medical, genetic, psychological, environmental - and I'm really not interested in any more discussion on the "why" part, in general. I grew up in a home with an Italian mother with Hypothyroidism and a Polish/German father who had most of his uncles & aunts die from Diabetes complications and heart failure. I'm certainly not fat-shaming anybody, and I don't need any more quasi-scientific replies either. I've got my own weight & fitness anecdotes... Just answer this - 1) Was Josh in peak physical shape (for him, whatever level that is) during his GU career? 2) If not, do you think there anything additional he COULD and SHOULD have done to achieve a better level of fitness? Simple yes or no. I don't need details. I know you couldn't have the real answer for either question (outside the locker room/Dr's office/Home/Josh's head), but give your honest assessment of each. Base it on whatever you want - coaches comments, general appearance, standard of play, anything you have access to. Also - I'm not asking if Josh worked hard. I'm sure he and the entire team did. Maybe there's an external factor that none of us know about that might complicate either question -- entirely possible. But ditch the devil's advocate stuff and professorial hooey that's permeated this thread. In Josh's case, what do you think? (p.s. - I never said or implied Josh should - or could - look like Marcus ) This is my last comment on the subject. I'll just read any replies that come back. Apologies in advance for revisiting well-trodden ground -- but the season's over. Marcus Derrickson retweeted Brian Levenson @brianlevenson · Apr 15 “Satisfaction lies in the effort, not in the attainment. Full effort is full victory.” --Mahatma GandhiRegarding your two questions, I honestly don't know. My entire point is that neither I nor you nor anyone can tell just by looking at him whether he could have done more given his build, etc. to improve his conditioning. It would appear from blueandgray's answer (who does have direct connection to the program) that the answer is yes.
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Post by BeatDuke on Apr 23, 2015 16:59:46 GMT -5
Wish I could find the tape of the Paul VI v. Montverde game from January 2013. Derrickson was a soph. Dakari Johnson was a senior. Derrickson was the best player on the floor that night, scoring his share and grabbing rebounds.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Apr 23, 2015 18:05:23 GMT -5
Josh could have done more. Lame excuse.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 23, 2015 21:36:29 GMT -5
Josh could have done more. Lame excuse. Maybe so, but you really have no idea unless you have close connections to the program you haven't revealed before.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 23, 2015 21:40:23 GMT -5
(2) Athletes like Josh Smith, despite being overweight, are still in relatively "good shape" compared to the average population. Could Smith run back and forth on the court for 10 straight minutes without getting winded? No, but I bet that most people posting on this message board could not do that either, and we are likely much smaller than him. Really 2003? That's your argument? That a player on a top 25 D1 college hoops team shouldn't be expected to be in better shape than the average couch potato? I admit I could not run up and down the court for 10 minutes of D1 level game time at this point in my life. But when I was a 21 year old college kid? You bet I could. And if I'd been training with the team all year? Of course. It was embarrassing that Josh had to come out after 3-4 minutes of play - constantly. And no, I don't believe for one second that kid could not have lost more weight had he committed to it. No one suggested he'd end up looking like Marcus or Jabril, but he sure as heck could look a lot fitter than he did. Remember how out of shape Roy was when he arrived? He worked at it and left in far better shape than when he arrived - and he kept it up when he got to the NBA. Now why didn't Josh? What emotional or motivational challenges did he have? I have no idea. From seeing his interviews and reading about him, he seems like a really nice kid, smart kid. But he was clearly not dedicated to seriously improving his body and fitness. Actually, if you had read my entire message and responded to it, you would have realized that that wasn't my sole point. But, if your point is to try to trash Josh, go for it. That's your choice. And no, I really don't think most 21 year olds at Georgetown could run up and down a basketball court for 10 minutes without passing out. Sure, many could, but many could not. My bigger point was: clearly, Josh did practice with the team and he did play in games. This alone is a lot more physical activity than most 21 year olds get. And, despite that, he still struggled with his conditioning. I am not trying to say that he couldn't have done more - he very well might have been able to do that - but I just think it's highly presumptive to make assumptions based on little information.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 23, 2015 23:31:35 GMT -5
Actually, if you had read my entire message and responded to it, you would have realized that that wasn't my sole point. But, if your point is to try to trash Josh, go for it. That's your choice. Trash? You mean like this:From seeing his interviews and reading about him, he seems like a really nice kid, smart kid. But he was clearly not dedicated to seriously improving his body and fitness.Your interpretation of that is "trashing" Josh? Really?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 0:15:36 GMT -5
Soph Season
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 24, 2015 0:33:56 GMT -5
Actually, if you had read my entire message and responded to it, you would have realized that that wasn't my sole point. But, if your point is to try to trash Josh, go for it. That's your choice. Trash? You mean like this:From seeing his interviews and reading about him, he seems like a really nice kid, smart kid. But he was clearly not dedicated to seriously improving his body and fitness.Your interpretation of that is "trashing" Josh? Really? I admit I used hyperbole and shouldn't have said that. No I don't think you are trashing Josh. I just think this whole discussion is silly because its entirely based on speculation but it is a message board, so I suppose that's to be expected.
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Post by hoyasaxa18 on Apr 24, 2015 3:14:43 GMT -5
This discussion is what drives people away from HoyaTalk.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Apr 24, 2015 10:15:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure how much speculation is involved here. Sufficient proof was clearly visible on the television screen to make an informed call about Josh's desire to improve his body and conditioning.
Josh made some good progress between junior and senior seasons, which was nice. But that improvement also indicates that more progress could have been made with harder work. He just didn't accomplish what we all hoped he would coming into the program. Too bad.
Biology may be factor in losing that last 10 or 20 or 30 pounds in certain cases. But any 400 pound dude who plays college sports can lose a helluva lot more weight than Josh did, regardless of genetic make-up. I think the biology excuse is lame and lets Josh off the hook.
I'm very excited to replace Smith with Govan and Derrickson, two big men who have worked hard in high school to get themselves into very good shape prior to arriving in college.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Apr 24, 2015 10:21:22 GMT -5
Hi guys, this is a recruiting forum and it's specifically a thread about a kid named Marcus Derrickson. COULD YOU TRY TO REMEMBER THAT FOR EditedS SAKE?!?
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