jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 19, 2010 16:43:06 GMT -5
I have been lurking to see the conversation on this board about potential conference realignments that would affect the Big East.
I was very surprised to see no recent commentary until DFW's article on the front page.
Some significant realignment scenarios could be very, very bad for GU.
I guess we will know more as the situation unfolds.
Here is to hoping to minimal change in the Big East.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 19, 2010 17:17:42 GMT -5
There's almost no scenario that's good for georgetown. Why bother talking about something this depressing. Besides we're busy discussion how we're going to suck next year and how much greg sucks and should give the school money.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 19, 2010 18:40:24 GMT -5
I have been lurking to see the conversation on this board about potential conference realignments that would affect the Big East. I was very surprised to see no recent commentary until DFW's article on the front page. Some significant realignment scenarios could be very, very bad for GU. I guess we will know more as the situation unfolds. Here is to hoping to minimal change in the Big East. We've had very strong discussion in the past, and the net is that if the BE falls apart, it sucks for GU. The best shot we'd have then is to hang around with the football schools, or at worst, grab a few of the basketball and the best of the A-10. A straight Catholic or private league that included too many of our BE brethren that don't try would be a disaster. As he said, it's too depressing to think about. |
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Apr 19, 2010 18:46:11 GMT -5
what potential alignment we talking about did i miss something?? woulnt be the first time for sure  Check the front page.--Admin |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 19, 2010 20:13:13 GMT -5
While the fiuture after 2013 doesnot look good i'm more concerned with the impact upon recruiting in 2011 and beyond.
I'm also not convinced that outside of adding ND or Texas that the Big 10 will add much from a long term tv revenue source by moving into the eastern market be it Syracuse, Rutgers, West Virginia or whomever.
I buy into more of the raiding that will go on should there be significant movement out of the Big 12 and the SEC and the ACC absorbing more of the BE. I am pretty certain they have been planning on this since BC was added.
I can only hope that discussions have been ongoing among the non football BE members in preparation of this oncoming change.
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Post by fsohoya on Apr 19, 2010 21:33:58 GMT -5
At this point I say to hell with the football schools and let's just put together a tremendous hoops-centric league (but I think we should get to keep the Big East name since it was started by a bunch of basketball schools). A league with GU, Xavier, Nova, Marquette, St. John's, Notre Dame, St. Joe's, Providence and maybe a school like UMass for variety's sake could be pretty darn good.
This needn't killl recruiting. At these schools the hoops players would be THE BMOCs, and it's not like our facilities situation would get worse than it is. As for TV, it would be tougher without big state schools to bring in audiences, but Gonazaga gets on TV a lot out of conference. Since our conference would have much bigger hoops names, I bet we could get pretty decent TV contracts for hoops.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 20, 2010 1:04:37 GMT -5
That league is better than just remaining with the BE basketball schools, but it is a still a huge hit. No national tv contract for that league. Very little shot at a national title.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Apr 20, 2010 5:38:14 GMT -5
The money and the power to control TV deals is with football, not basketball. The BT doesn't want ND and Neb for their BB addition, it's football. That's why they started their own network. All their other sports benefit from the TV coverage to fill up air time. The coverage of women's volleyball get some true market share They get revenue from non-revenue sports from their network.
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Post by fsohoya on Apr 20, 2010 5:39:26 GMT -5
SF, I think it could get a national TV contract, though probably not as good as you could get having a basketball and football relationship with a network. But GU, Xavier, ND, Nova and Marquette are all national-level hoops powers. If that group were to keep many of their major rivalries -- us vs. Cuse, Xavier vs. Cincy, Marquette vs. Wisconsin -- and do well in them, as well as do well generally OOC, it could be a good product people would want to watch.
Unfortunately, at this point it seems we might not have any choice but to create such a league. If there is a major realignment due to football, there aren't many scenarios I can think of where hoops-only schools aren't left to fend for themselves.
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Post by fsohoya on Apr 20, 2010 5:51:22 GMT -5
At this point I say to hell with the football schools and let's just put together a tremendous hoops-centric league (but I think we should get to keep the Big East name since it was started by a bunch of basketball schools). A league with GU, Xavier, Nova, Marquette, St. John's, Notre Dame, St. Joe's, Providence and maybe a school like UMass for variety's sake could be pretty darn good. This needn't killl recruiting. At these schools the hoops players would be THE BMOCs, and it's not like our facilities situation would get worse than it is. As for TV, it would be tougher without big state schools to bring in audiences, but Gonazaga gets on TV a lot out of conference. Since our conference would have much bigger hoops names, I bet we could get pretty decent TV contracts for hoops. What if Gonzaga were thrown into this group, by the way? The geography would be bad and travel costs -- especially for the Zags -- potentially awful, but that would really make this a conference full of consistently good basketball teams. Heck, it being the only non-football, hoops-only "power conference" could maybe even give it some unique -- and marketable -- cache. And the travel costs for the Zags could be mitigated, relative to their current arrangement, by not having to travel for so many OOC games because they'd have better conference opponents. But what about all the other sports (except football) played in the BE? I see no insurmountable reason those teams couldn't just play the geographically close members of the new BE, other than that the Zags would be left to find a conference affiliation for all sports but basketball. If they could do that, though, it would keep overall travel costs quite reasonable and I think make the new BE very viable. |
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Apr 20, 2010 7:50:41 GMT -5
are all these doomsday scenarios really going to happen? it seems like as with anything, we will see incremental change as opposed to a massive league overhaul. losing ND and/or a team like WVU, Pitt, Cincy, Louisville wouldnt be that bad. this basketball league needs to get down to a manageable size of 14 teams anyways.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Apr 20, 2010 8:04:34 GMT -5
Let's just hope ND goes and that's that. That'll cause the minimum impact on us right?
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Apr 20, 2010 8:28:00 GMT -5
I don't think a 16 team league would work for football. It would be very hard to maintain rivalries and to establish new ones. Also it would play hell on the traditional out of conference schedules. How many games would a team be allowed to schedule OOC?
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 20, 2010 9:03:31 GMT -5
Think the bottom line is that if anything happens, it's bad for us, and if anything major happens it's worse for us, and the likelihood that something will happen is overwhelming, it's just a question of how major.
One way or another I think we will end up in the all basketball league that has been mentioned. There are a few different paths to that destination, and it may happen quickly or it could take several years. But it's pretty clear that BE football is on it's death bed and all of the BE football schools are trying to find new homes, none of which is going to involve the hoops schools tagging along.
Most likely outcome will be a conference of us, Nova, Marquette, ND*, Depaul, SJU, SHU, PC and Xavier. I am not sure why some people throw in teams like St. Joes (Nova already covers the Philly market) or others to boost the number of teams in the conference up to 10 or 12. 9 is the perfect number of teams for a basketball conference, and it allows a 16 team round-robin schedule. Conferences used to have 9, back before football and football conference championships screwed it up.
(*There's also a chance ND caves and ends up in the B10, though I think it's still unlikely for now. If they do we'd need one other team.... One team that is intriguing if ND bolts would be Butler, who definitely fits the bill aside from not being Catholic, since they've had an excellent program in recent years and play in a major city. If not them a lot of other Catholic schools including St. Louis, Creighton, St. Joes, Holy Cross, Fordham and more would be looked at.)
As far as basketball goes, the aforementioned conference is actually pretty decent. Nova, Georgetown, Marquette, Xavier and ND are more or less perennial tournament teams over the last several years. I'm somewhat bullish on SJU and Depaul with their new coaches. Not sure about PC or SHU, they may be "make the tourney every few years" type schools which is fine, because honestly, you don't want to play in a league where everybody is "pretty good" every year since not everybody can make the dance. Every league needs a few bottom-feeders.... But anyway, I think the quality of ball played in that conference would be pretty good, and could be sending 5 teams to the dance every year.
The issue isn't with the quality of play. As some people tend to forget in these discussions, how good you are is much less important than how many people want to watch you. It's all about money, and a big fanbase and/or general interest in your program are hugely important in this era of college sports. It's why a team like ND who has been mediocre in football for 2 decades is prized by every conference in the country. And the major worry obviously with the new conference is that we're just not going to have enough national support to maintain the "high major" feel. Yes some of the schools including us have some name recognition nationally, but for the most part all of the schools are small-medium sized Catholic schools who have small fanbases outside of their own alumni. Compared to the big, BCS power schools, who have enormous alumni bases and often have entire states full of people on their side, our fan bases are tiny.
I think there is real concern is what sort of tv deal we'd get. Are most of our games on the ESPN family, or just 2-3 games per year? How about our attendance? I envision Verizon as mausoleum for weeknight tilts with PC, SHU, Depaul and even if they're decent St. Johns, MU, Xavier. The only teams in the new conference that'd reliably draw to Verizon are Nova and to a lesser extent ND.
Anyway, change will come and we just have to hope that we land softly. The best thing we can do is to keep winning games and keep recruiting well in the immediate future. As long as we're winning games and make the tourney we'll stay relevant, and hopefully over time success translates to more fans which translates to better attendance, more televised games etc.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 20, 2010 9:17:37 GMT -5
I gues best case scenario besides nothing happening would be for B10 to take only 1 team and BE adapting and staying together. The next best hope is that if a conference split happens the football schools keep Nova and Gtown with them.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Apr 20, 2010 9:22:37 GMT -5
I am not convinced on the disaster scenarios for GU if changes happen. Of course, a basketball-only league will take a hit with TV revenue, etc., but I don't agree that teams in the league would have very little shot to win a NC.
Looking at the Final Fours from the past, it seems that the traditional basketball powers (i.e. schools generally known more for their success on the court than on the gridiron, like Duke, NC, Kansas, UConn, Cuse), are equally (if not more) represented than the big football schools, an then the random outliers like Butler and GMU are thrown in. I know many disagree, but I can't see why teams in a basketball-oriented league (GU, Nova, Marquette, et al.) can't remain competitive.
2010 Duke (1) Butler (5) West Virginia (2) Michigan State (5)
2009 North Carolina (1) Michigan State (2) Villanova (3) Connecticut (1)
2008 Kansas (1) Memphis (1) North Carolina (1) UCLA (1)
2007 Florida (1) Ohio State (1) UCLA (2) Georgetown (2)
2006 Florida (3) UCLA (2) George Mason (11) LSU (4)
2005 N. Carolina (1) Illinois (1) Michigan St. (5) Louisville (4)
2004 UConn (2) Ga. Tech (3) Duke (1) Okla. St. (2)
2003 Syracuse (3) Kansas (2) Texas (1) Marquette (3)
2002 Maryland (1) Indiana (5) Kansas (1) Oklahoma (2)
2001 Duke (1) Arizona (2) Maryland (3) Michigan St. (1)
2000 Michigan St. (1) Florida (5) Wisconsin (8) North Carolina (8)
1999 Connecticut (1) Duke (1) Ohio St. (4) Michigan St. (1)
1998 Kentucky (2) Utah (3) Stanford (3) North Carolina (1)
1997 Arizona (4) Kentucky (1) North Carolina (1) Minnesota (1)
1996 Kentucky (1) Syracuse (4) Umass (1) Miss. St. (5)
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 20, 2010 9:25:57 GMT -5
If the BE implodes, what are the chances that GU gets invited to the ACC? Especially if in the conference shuffle, the ACC loses Clemson or Georgia Tech to the SEC?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Apr 20, 2010 9:28:02 GMT -5
If the BE implodes, what are the chances that GU gets invited to the ACC? Especially if in the conference shuffle, the ACC loses Clemson or Georgia Tech to the SEC? I just threw up.....a lot. What kind of sick twisted mind comes up with an idea like that?? The guys who made 'Hostel' were't as sadistic as you. |
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Apr 20, 2010 9:31:57 GMT -5
hopefully obama will make a push to get us out of the football BCS system before any of this league shifting transpires. that way maybe football schools wouldnt feel such a big need to leave the big east. a tournament format would let the big east winner have a shot at the national title, whereas the way it is now they probably could never make the national championship game.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 20, 2010 9:33:17 GMT -5
Boz, as much as we hate the ACC, does anyone seriously think that the basketball only conference is viable? I really think we would become the A-10 almost immediately, putting 2-4 teams in the tournament every year, but always being an afterthought in the conversation. Joining the ACC we would get lots of games against basketball first schools, Verizon Center would be full all the time with games against UNC, Duke, UMCP, Wake, etc., and we would get a hand in the football revenue.
Of course, we would have to stop calling BC "Benedict Arnold", but hey I'm ok eating some crow in order to stay relevant...
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