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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 20, 2010 9:34:18 GMT -5
Possibly a stupid question, but is it possible for a school like Pitt to throw its football team into a different conference, but keep basketball in another? I don't know the logistics of such a move.
Second, couldn't we always compensate for a weaker (and likely shorter) in-conference schedule by just beefing up OOC play? I'm SURE that no matter what conference they're in, Cuse will want to play us. UConn will want to play us. ND will want to play us. So sure, maybe in-conference wouldn't be the unbelievable schedule that it is in the BE right now, but if we kept Marquette, Nova, St. Johns, and added a school or two like Xavier, then we played 4 or 5 big time OOC games (instead of 2 or 3 like we do now), then aren't we still in a similar position? Sure, not as strong as current BE, but also not the end of days.
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Apr 20, 2010 9:38:23 GMT -5
NY Times weighs in -- former Cuse commish Crouthamel paints a doomsday scenario. Big East commish seems a bit more optimistic. Whole bunch of game theory going on. This all seems pretty dire and strong, crisis leadership is needed. If ND would just slide into the Big 10 this could all be averted. I blame JoePa (who I used to like) -- he seems intent on destroying the Big East ever since we denied his second-rate institution. www.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/sports/20colleges.html?ref=sports
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Post by matersammich on Apr 20, 2010 9:47:49 GMT -5
If the BE implodes, what are the chances that GU gets invited to the ACC? Especially if in the conference shuffle, the ACC loses Clemson or Georgia Tech to the SEC? None without a 1-A football team.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 20, 2010 9:48:59 GMT -5
Which is too bad, Big East football has actually been somewhat decent the past few years. Definitely better than the ACC, who were the ones that raided our conference in hopes of improving their football stature.
Side note: The Big Ten is doing this because they want a conference championship game and increased revenues, right? Well, even with that, I think conference championship games are stupid. There should be an actual playoff to determine the national champion instead.
This is basically my attitude too. I'm not going to push the panic button. A lot of these things are outside of our control. What is in our control? Winning games and keep building on our fanbase.
Hopefully whatever changes are made are minimal, and the Big East rolls on. I think it's too early to envision what might happen just yet. But it will be important to keep an eye on, and I honestly hope they make some of these decisions earlier rather than later, so we're not left just hanging, wondering our fate, for too long.
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Post by strummer8526 on Apr 20, 2010 9:55:01 GMT -5
It sounds to me like everyone involved has an interest in splitting their football and basketball conference loyalties. Sure, in football, we don't deserve to be in the same conference as other BE schools. They should look for the football money and get into the best football conferences they can. But basketball should get the same. And schools w/ great football AND basketball should be allowed to maximize each separately. If that means two different conferences, then so be it. Again, is that totally out of the question?
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tjm62
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Post by tjm62 on Apr 20, 2010 10:06:10 GMT -5
The only doomsday scenario that really bothers me is the one mentioned in the NY times article -- four superconferences holding their own post-season basketball tournament instead of the NCAA.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 20, 2010 10:07:37 GMT -5
It sounds to me like everyone involved has an interest in splitting their football and basketball conference loyalties. Sure, in football, we don't deserve to be in the same conference as other BE schools. They should look for the football money and get into the best football conferences they can. But basketball should get the same. And schools w/ great football AND basketball should be allowed to maximize each separately. If that means two different conferences, then so be it. Again, is that totally out of the question? I suppose it is possible, but I would imagine that the way contracts are written for big conferences, this type of thing would be breach.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 20, 2010 10:10:22 GMT -5
One of my big concerns? No matter what happens, the preservation of the Big East Tournament at Madison Square Garden. Honestly one of the best sporting events I have ever attended.
Way early for this, but if the unmentionable were to occur, it would be sad to see it go in a few years.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 20, 2010 10:10:53 GMT -5
This is basically my attitude too. I'm not going to push the panic button. A lot of these things are outside of our control. What is in our control? Winning games and keep building on our fanbase. If Georgetown wants to build a fan base it needs to make better choices in marketing to fans outside the Beltway. I know the reasons why, but a Tuesday night basketball banquet does nothing for out of town fans, and the fan focus remains too DC-centric. I know I disagree with my friends on the Hoop Club on this one but this is an opportunity lost. Also, a fan base support many sports, not one. The turnout numbers in recent years in women's basketball, football (and of late, lacrosse) are not good enough.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 20, 2010 10:11:52 GMT -5
Unfortunately, all of this is completely out of Georgetown's control. Personally, I think this is going to result in a basketball only conference for Georgetown that will be at a huge disadvantage in terms of TV contracts. I think the league will be similar in quality as the old Conference USA prior to the ACC raid. If you recall, that league was taken seriously, but was not considered a nationally attractive league. I see most of the games carried MASN or SNY in the northeast and that is pretty much the extent of it. Perhaps a few high profile games on ESPN and the conference championship being picked up nationally.
I am also not buying that all this doomsday talk is BS either. The Big 10 is expanding, period. They likely want to go to 14 or 16 and that will involve the Big East. Chances are the Big 12, ACC and SEC will follow the Big 10's lead and also expand to 14/16 teams and that should result in the break-up the Big East football conference.
We need to be realistic, this is not good for GU in any way, shape or form. It is basically like starting over from the very early days of the Big East.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 20, 2010 10:12:50 GMT -5
hopefully obama will make a push to get us out of the football BCS system before any of this league shifting transpires. that way maybe football schools wouldnt feel such a big need to leave the big east. a tournament format would let the big east winner have a shot at the national title, whereas the way it is now they probably could never make the national championship game. Doubt it, at least not in the next few years. Pretty sure Jim Delaney is more powerful than Obama right now I'm not so sure about this. When/if the Big 10 goes to 12, it seems pretty likely that the PAC-10 is going to go to 12 as well. Those conferences mirror each other a bit with the focus on academics, the whole Rose Bowl thing etc, plus conferences are just looking to expand right now, get that conference championship revenue and try to break into new markets. So if the Big 10 goes to 12 and the PAC 10 goes to 12, that means 5 of the 6 BCS conferences are at 12 teams, leaving only the BE as the ugly stepchild with a lowly 8 teams. Have to think it would not be long before having a conference championship game (and therefore, at least 12 teams) became a requirement for BCS membership. And once that happens, obviously the Big East needs to add 4 schools, and it's HIGHLY unlikely they'd go to 19 or 20 for hoops/all other sports. So at that point most likely the football schools split off and we're right back in the same spot. FWIW the same idea applies for any other BE team who may leave in a situation where the Big 10 goes to 12. Say Pitt or Rutgers goes to the B10. Big East picks up Memphis or UCF and rolls on for the time being. But that's likely followed by the PAC 10 adding 2 and then following the same script as above. It could get somewhat complicated, where the PAC 10 steals Colorado, then the Big 12 looks at Big East schools for a replacement etc. It could take some time for everything to shake out. But the bottom line no matter how you look at it it is that Big East football is the least attractive football conference, and with expansion on the horizon, it will most likely die. That's why as I said before, I think that one way or the other we're probably headed for some variation of the Catholic league, it's just a matter of whether it's in the near future or a few years down the line.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 20, 2010 10:27:39 GMT -5
So what we should really want our NBA stars to contribute money to instead of a new practice facility they should pump and excess money they're willing to spare into the football program. If we can just get our football up to 1A then none of this is a problem anymore. My dream scenario assuming something bad is going to happen is that the when the BE splits they keep Nova and Gtown with them to round out their non football sports.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 20, 2010 10:40:21 GMT -5
Side note and hypothetical: Why did the Big East reject Penn State back in 1985? If we had accepted them, would that have made things any different?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 20, 2010 10:49:25 GMT -5
Side note and hypothetical: Why did the Big East reject Penn State back in 1985? If we had accepted them, would that have made things any different? In 1982, Joe Paterno approached the Big East to join. The relative size of Penn State and PSU's traditional lack of success in basketball scared off the voters, as well as some bad blood between PSU and Syracuse over scheduling issues in football. Turned down, Paterno sought to build an eastern all-sports conference and take Syracuse and BC with him. The Big East then offered an expansion spot to Pittsburgh, which scuttled Paterno's plan. A few years later, JoePa brokered the deal with the Big Ten. It didn't lead to today's mess, but it's a part of it, and that's not to say there still wouldn't have been a mess if PSU was in the Big East then as well. And let's be clear about another thing: if Syracuse left, those games are gone. New conferences and TV demands for non-conference games make series like that impossible to keep up--it would be the equivalent of a series with Boston College or the old intersectional games with Holy Cross and St. Joe's--they don't come back.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 20, 2010 10:52:11 GMT -5
If the BE implodes, what are the chances that GU gets invited to the ACC? Especially if in the conference shuffle, the ACC loses Clemson or Georgia Tech to the SEC? I was having a good day until I read this.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Apr 20, 2010 11:04:26 GMT -5
ouch just read dfw front page analysis AINT GOOD ugh but it is what it is go hoyas go big east OUCH OUCH OUCH ;D
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 20, 2010 11:49:55 GMT -5
I believe that part of Pete Hamels article is a broadside on the part of the Big Ten to get movement from ND to join up. The Big Ten knows that revenue will be enhanced to a greater degree with ND than any combination of Northeast Schools and will also reduce the numbers for payouts. With the current distribution of 220mm to 11 schools i dont think anyone wants to take a 5mm hit to there revenue allocation. The conference tournament is not going to make that up. ND is most likely due for a surprise when they renegotiate their tv deal which i thought was coming up for renewal again in the next 2-3 years. currently it pays them just north of 10 plus maybe another couple of mil from the BE 12 mil and potentially heading south vs in excess of 20 and whatever short term incentives they could pry from the Big Ten it should be a no brainer despite the claims of remaining independent. the only hit would be to some of the so- called Olympic sports which may take a hit quality wise moving to the Big Ten.
If such a scenario occurs it may only give us another year or 2 before armageddon. Despite what Marrinato says The football schools i'm certain have all but decided to go their own way and it may be much sooner than later.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Apr 20, 2010 12:06:42 GMT -5
hopefully obama will make a push to get us out of the football BCS system before any of this league shifting transpires. that way maybe football schools wouldnt feel such a big need to leave the big east. a tournament format would let the big east winner have a shot at the national title, whereas the way it is now they probably could never make the national championship game. Doubt it, at least not in the next few years. Pretty sure Jim Delaney is more powerful than Obama right now The bigger issue is would that getting rid of the BCS be socialist? Could Obama support for a playoff result in paeans to the BCS as a fundamental American value?
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 20, 2010 12:17:01 GMT -5
I believe that part of Pete Hamels article is a broadside on the part of the Big Ten to get movement from ND to join up. The Big Ten knows that revenue will be enhanced to a greater degree with ND than any combination of Northeast Schools and will also reduce the numbers for payouts. With the current distribution of 220mm to 11 schools i dont think anyone wants to take a 5mm hit to there revenue allocation. The conference tournament is not going to make that up. ND is most likely due for a surprise when they renegotiate their tv deal which i thought was coming up for renewal again in the next 2-3 years. currently it pays them just north of 10 plus maybe another couple of mil from the BE 12 mil and potentially heading south vs in excess of 20 and whatever short term incentives they could pry from the Big Ten it should be a no brainer despite the claims of remaining independent. the only hit would be to some of the so- called Olympic sports which may take a hit quality wise moving to the Big Ten. If such a scenario occurs it may only give us another year or 2 before armageddon. Despite what Marrinato says The football schools i'm certain have all but decided to go their own way and it may be much sooner than later. Yep, the future for the Big East is looking really grim. Will be a damn shame to lose that conference tourney in NYC. But I'm not sure that as a whole the hoops league works all that well at the moment - too large and unwieldy and really a hodgepodge of schools. There's no way this turns out to be better for Georgetown hoops, but it doesn't have to be Armageddon either. With JT3 at the helm, I do have faith that we can remain relevant. But it will be a whole new world very soon.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 20, 2010 12:20:11 GMT -5
And let's be clear about another thing: if Syracuse left, those games are gone. New conferences and TV demands for non-conference games make series like that impossible to keep up--it would be the equivalent of a series with Boston College or the old intersectional games with Holy Cross and St. Joe's--they don't come back. Maybe its just a bit of naivety, but I don't see Boeheim and III letting it die. I mean, is it really that hard to schedule that game in November? I've ran this scenario through my head a dozen times, but the following conference actually gets me excited. 1. Georgetown 2. Villanova 3. St. John's 4. Seton Hall 5. Providence 6. Marquette 7. Depaul (Gross) 8. Notre Dame Adding9. Xavier 10. St. Joe's 11. Temple 12. Dayton If I had it my way, I'd drop Depaul, but that market is pretty good. If ND goes to the Big Ten, than add UMASS, Richmond, or ODU. Of course, you can always go all-Catholic as well. I see that as being, at worse, the 4th best basketball conference. Of course, there will be a dropoff of the former BE teams from their prior recruiting abilities. But, if you keep the BE name and the Garden for the tournament, than it wouldn't bother me that much.
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