jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 20, 2010 12:29:03 GMT -5
This problem would go away to a large extent if the BE football teams were better. If they could win a championship or two then the revenues would go up and the TV contract would go up. would it be equal to the 20 mil the Big ten is offering? No way, but it would be enough to make the football schools think twice about jumping. Hopefully that 27 month clause and 5 mil penalty will buy the league enough time to see the football fortunes change.
The team i havent heard talked about is Louisville. What would happen to them? they wouldnt go to the Big Ten or the Big 12, may be the SEC. who knows.
Also if there were a huge realignment and, as the article says, four super conferences emerge what happens to Duke? They are the only school without a big time football program (yeah its D-1 but no one thinks much of it) who can boast basketball revenues that would be of significant impact to a big conference. But they dont have a TV market that would really justify it. If you want the NC tv market you go with UNC who has more bball revenues and a legitimate football team. The trump card that Duke holds is that NO ONE on the face of the earth would agree that any bball championship created by the big superconferences would be legit if it didnt include Duke.
Georgetown needs to be proactive on this. they need to reach out to other similar schools NOW to create a contingency plan. They need to involve schools from inside and outside the BE- schools that would be lost in the shuffle. This include Nova, St. Johns (for the TV market), Xavier, etc. and a great school to include would be Duke. If you can make them agree to join a basketball only conference then you remain nationally relevant and can live.
The chances of that are low. And as much as i hate to say it, once stuff starts going down, if the ACC comes calling for Gtown, they need to take that invitation as soon as it comes in- it would the only chance they have.
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on Apr 20, 2010 12:29:41 GMT -5
And let's be clear about another thing: if Syracuse left, those games are gone. New conferences and TV demands for non-conference games make series like that impossible to keep up--it would be the equivalent of a series with Boston College or the old intersectional games with Holy Cross and St. Joe's--they don't come back. Maybe its just a bit of naivety, but I don't see Boeheim and III letting it die. I mean, is it really that hard to schedule that game in November? I've ran this scenario through my head a dozen times, but the following conference actually gets me excited. 1. Georgetown 2. Villanova 3. St. John's 4. Seton Hall 5. Providence 6. Marquette 7. Depaul (Gross) 8. Notre Dame Adding9. Xavier 10. St. Joe's 11. Temple 12. Dayton If I had it my way, I'd drop Depaul, but that market is pretty good. If ND goes to the Big Ten, than add UMASS, Richmond, or ODU. Of course, you can always go all-Catholic as well. I see that as being, at worse, the 4th best basketball conference. Of course, there will be a dropoff of the former BE teams from their prior recruiting abilities. But, if you keep the BE name and the Garden for the tournament, than it wouldn't bother me that much. I'd love to see if we could add Butler to the mix as well.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 20, 2010 12:38:50 GMT -5
DFW donot forget that Joe Pa refused to become part of the original proposed eastern football conference that was proposed and talked about throughout the early and mid 70s. His proposed eastern conference in 1982 was never going anywhere from the get go. Syracuse was adamantly opposed and Jake Crouthamel was far to loyal to Dave Gavitt. BC under Bill Flynn had a large degree of loyalty back then too and was really joined at the hip in regards to football with Syracuse. At the time there was a great deal of acrimony on the part of all of the eastern football schools with regards to Jo Pa and PSU. Honestly don't know if the early eastern football conference would have impacted the creation of the BE becuase it was Football only but clearly lack of a crystal ball back in the early 80s has brought us to where we are today.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 20, 2010 12:47:51 GMT -5
As I said earlier, not sure I see the logic behind adding St. Joes, Temple, Dayton. Does not bring in any major new markets and just makes the whole thing feel more A-10ish. As the basketball schools are finding out the hard way, conference realignment/expansion tends to take place along money lines, that is, based on what makes the most financial sense rather than the most sports sense. If it was just about "fit" for a conference, Iowa State (an AAU school) would be in the B10 already. But because the Hawkeyes already cover that market, ISU brings nothing to the table, and is thus not even mentioned. It's the main reason why Pitt is not a shoe-in, because Penn State already brings the Pittsburgh area. Following along that same pattern of thinking, I'm not sure what Temple or Joes brings to the table that is not already provided by Nova. A few extra households in the Philly suburbs does not warrant dividing the conference's revenue/tv contract by 12 rather than 9.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 20, 2010 12:58:03 GMT -5
In regards to being proactive now may be too late. This has been a locamotive coming down the track since 2004 or actually earlier, back when Uconn was invited to play football. If we haven;t done due diligence inside and outside of the conference by now, both the AD and the President have not been doing their jobs.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 20, 2010 13:08:13 GMT -5
Not to be a conspiracist but if you were part of the current and recent past adminstrations at GU would you be in any hurry to move ahead to raise money and build a practice facility for basketball not knowing exactly what type league and landscape of college sports you would be competing in. Did someone say hello Patriot league.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 20, 2010 13:28:09 GMT -5
Not to be a conspiracist but if you were part of the current and recent past adminstrations at GU would you be in any hurry to move ahead to raise money and build a practice facility for basketball not knowing exactly what type league and landscape of college sports you would be competing in. Did someone say hello Patriot league. I actually think that the conference realignment is a big reason why we need more than just a practice facility, but a legitimate place to play home games on-campus. As I mentioned earlier, a week night home game against a Depaul, PC, SHU is drawing NOBODY to Verizon, and (even though these teams have been or figure to be pretty solid) SJU, Marquette, Xavier are not going to be much better because despite being pretty solid they don't have the name value or cache to excite anybody. The atmosphere at Verizon would be pretty awful, and when/if this goes down, that's the majority of our schedule right there.... That's why I think we need some place to play some home games on campus, where it's easier for students to just roll in to the building. Nothing fancy or state-of-the-art, nothing huge. Just a very basic court in the middle with enough seats around it to reasonably accommodate a men's home game. Since we've got a women's team (not to mention volleyball, convocation, and misc. other stuff) we're always going to need some sort of arena on-campus. My thinking is we just need to boost the amount of seating up a little bit so that we can have some men's home games there too, and only have the weekend games and the bigger games at Verizon. On the plus side, the breakup of the big east would probably mean the end of the "have to provide available seating for X (6500?) people in the building in order to play a big east game there" rule, so that makes the idea a bit more realistic. Although on the other hand I fear that it'd lead us, SJU and Nova to quit playing games at the NBA arenas and start playing mostly on campus, which would further the A-10ization of the conference. But even still, finding a way to get a couple thousand more seats into a renovated McDonough would be a good move, IMO. The court is always going to have to be there for the women's team, so a little renovation and then making it available for men's games as needed seems like it would at least give us flexibility.
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Post by reformation on Apr 20, 2010 13:41:18 GMT -5
ACC would be our best option(if its really an option). They'd probably want us to upgrade some of our non rev sports like tennis, golf, womens rowing--but it would make the most sense for us for all sports ex football + plenty of natural rivalries that people care about-Duke, UVA, MD, UNC, BC--ACC geography + acdemics are a plus. Our top tier academics + excellence at a few sports would hopefully be attractive to them + a few sports, Bball, Track, Lax
I guess we could revisit the Ivy(another long shot), ex basketball. A DC outpost for IVY events would have some interest to them.
The catholic/quasi catholic league would be a definite downgrade for most sports including basketball--I'm sure its the easiest thing to do, but its unclear (maybe we do/maybe we don't)that we stay consistently nationally competitive with that setup. I'd bet that it also increases the chance of losing JT3 at some point. Also not sure how the program economics work under this setup.
DeGioia + new AD need help in getting the best for Gtwn in this realignment. They should seek active help from somebody like Tagliabue to be proactive and intelligent re exploring the full range of possibilities in advance. Others with ties to other universities/tv networks should be utilized as well. --I really hope this doesn't become another disaster like acquiring the Mount Vernon property.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 20, 2010 14:05:47 GMT -5
Maybe its just a bit of naivety, but I don't see Boeheim and III letting it die. I mean, is it really that hard to schedule that game in November? I've ran this scenario through my head a dozen times, but the following conference actually gets me excited. 1. Georgetown 2. Villanova 3. St. John's 4. Seton Hall 5. Providence 6. Marquette 7. Depaul (Gross) 8. Notre Dame Adding9. Xavier 10. St. Joe's 11. Temple 12. Dayton If I had it my way, I'd drop Depaul, but that market is pretty good. If ND goes to the Big Ten, than add UMASS, Richmond, or ODU. Of course, you can always go all-Catholic as well. I see that as being, at worse, the 4th best basketball conference. Of course, there will be a dropoff of the former BE teams from their prior recruiting abilities. But, if you keep the BE name and the Garden for the tournament, than it wouldn't bother me that much. I'd love to see if we could add Butler to the mix as well. EDIT 1. Georgetown 2. Villanova 3. St. John's 4. Seton Hall 5. Providence 6. Marquette 7. Depaul/Butler 8. Notre Dame/Butler 9. Xavier 10. St. Joe's 11. Temple 12. Dayton
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Apr 20, 2010 14:15:21 GMT -5
Someone mentioned it, but its a shame that there can't just be football-only conferences and then basketball-centric conferences for hoops and everything else. It won't happen. But flying from Boston to Florida for a soccer game or Texas to Washington for a volleyball game is idiotic. I think Swarbrick will move ND to a conference. He knows better than his alums that ND may be left out in the cold when all this occurs and in five years may not have anyone left to play. In general I find these scenarios as depressing as everyone else. I will add a few small caveats - 1) Media is fragmenting, and will continue to do. When GU is on CBS I don't even think to check the channel until I have looked at ESPN or MSG. There will be more and more media outlets for a Catholic basketball conference and being on TV shouldn't be a problem. 2) It's a shame that the big football conferences will bundle their TV contracts and lock a Catholic superconference out of prime time. But media is driven by the big advertising markets, and with teams in NY, Philly, DC, and Chicago, plus smaller but attractive markets like Milwaukee and Cincinnati, the conference will have some legs. The issue is that historically most private schools don't have a large non-alumni fan base and won't carry the market from a TV standpoint. 3) UConn is the jewel of the Big East. They are the only thing the Big East has to an existing "Big Ten-like" school - everyone who lives in the state follows them whether or not they are an alum, they have huge alumni bases in NY and Boston, and they have a deep and successful sports program and a rapidly improving academic reputation. The ACC fouled up by not stealing them when they could and may come to regret it. 4) The BET may still stay in MSG in a Catholic only conference. Why would it move? It has St. Johns, Seton Hall, etc. The tickets would be easier to get, that is for sure. 5) Don't the founding schools own the Big East name? So that is staying. Some branding value 6) I view as a 50/50 likelihood between an all-Catholic hoops only conference and a hybrird Catholic hoops/leftover BCS type football school conference that features teams left out in the cold like Memphis, Central Florida, and perhaps some remnant Big East football or even ACC schools (Hellloooooo, Clemson. .. okay, maybe not). 7) The lawyers may get involved very quickly, and they probably should, as much as I hate that sort of thing. The BCS football schools have been screwing everyone else for so long, this sort of thing will rip apart quite a few conferences and teams that have invested heavily in their sports programs. And everyone hates the BCS except the people who run it. So there may be a light show in the courtroom that brings this all to a halt before it gets too far or settles out.
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 20, 2010 14:42:17 GMT -5
I'd love to see if we could add Butler to the mix as well. EDIT 1. Georgetown 2. Villanova 3. St. John's 4. Seton Hall 5. Providence 6. Marquette 7. Depaul/Butler 8. Notre Dame/Butler 9. Xavier 10. St. Joe's 11. Temple 12. Dayton What a depressing week to be a Hoya fan. 2007 is starting to feel like a Last Hurrah
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Post by hibbertfor3 on Apr 20, 2010 14:45:52 GMT -5
Maybe they can increase the NCAA tourney field to 196 so we can have a shot. Sorry, I'm just really bummed about all of this.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 20, 2010 14:59:38 GMT -5
Maybe they can increase the NCAA tourney field to 196 so we can have a shot. Sorry, I'm just really bummed about all of this. I'm not really bummed. Could it be a downgrade for Georgetown? Yes. Will it be the end of the world? Not even close. We'll just have to see how it all plays out. Overall, I think we will be fine, and our goal of a national championship will not suffer.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Apr 20, 2010 15:16:36 GMT -5
As long as GU can afford to keep JTIII I think we'll remain a nationally competitive basketball program year in and year out, regardless of conference make-up. Look at how many BCS football schools have terrible basketball programs. Money pouring in from a football TV contract helps, but it doesn't make your basketball program. With JTIII, we know we will have solid recruiting and coaching. To perform on the court, that's what matters.
So yeah, we may not have an ESPN Big Monday game every other week, and a CBS game every Saturday, but that doesn't preclude GU from maintaining an elite basketball program.
Yes, there are plenty of hurdles that arise from losing affiliation with a large successful conference, as have been discussed above, but the basics for winning remain having good coaches and good players. Having JTIII ensures those two key areas are met. Hell, GU basketball has accomplished "more with less" than possibly any other basketball program. It's sort of what we do.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Apr 20, 2010 15:37:28 GMT -5
I think our best bet is to move with Duke to the Ivy League, where the Ivies would love to absorb the academic prestige of Duke Medical Canter and Georgetown SFS, while assuaging their historic prejudices against Southern and Catholic education. With us and the Blue Devils along with Cornell and Harvard, the basketball could be pretty good as well. Both schools could survive Ivy Football and the travel would not be onerous. The Ivy League would need both us and them for schedule balance. If we keep a home and home with Syracuse and add a home and home with UNC, (and Duke gets home/homes with UNC and Syracuse) we could still have enough competition to compete for the national championship. Lets get out of the rat race and hang with our peers.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Apr 20, 2010 15:43:11 GMT -5
and yes Duke could add the requisite men's rowing team they would need.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 20, 2010 15:46:09 GMT -5
If Georgetown moves to the Ivy League, there is no chance that we will compete for a national championship in basketball ever again (and probably most other sports), and there is no chance that JT3 will stay. There were similar rumors (probably baseless) in 2003-04 the last time something like this happened. Thankfully, I highly, highly doubt this will ever come to pass.
(Side note: One of the reasons I chose to apply and ultimately attend Georgetown is because it was NOT an Ivy League school. The ones I visited - Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia - seemed either too stuffy and pretentious and/or lacking in school spirit. I only applied to Princeton, and thankfully, I did not get in.)
With all the different ideas being floated around right now (Georgetown to ACC/Ivy League/watered down Big East/East Coast Catholic Basketball conference), let's admit: we have no freaking clue what is going to happen. So, I will wait and see how it all plays out.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Apr 20, 2010 16:04:50 GMT -5
Someone mentioned it, but its a shame that there can't just be football-only conferences and then basketball-centric conferences for hoops and everything else. It won't happen. But flying from Boston to Florida for a soccer game or Texas to Washington for a volleyball game is idiotic. I agree with that logic, IF the conference isn't elite on its own overall. Thus my appreciation of the SEC. I hate to beat my own chest ...
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 20, 2010 16:11:24 GMT -5
The catholic league would not be that bad at all. We could very well be a Memphis or a gonzaga. They still get top recruits and still make the NCAAs and can challenge for antional titles. Losing the big east does not mean we are no longer relevant.
BCS needs to be blown up. World would be a much better place if football never existed and basketball was #1 in college sports.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 20, 2010 16:11:47 GMT -5
GU to Ivy makes no sense. Harvard and Cornell might be decent this year, but both are historically terrible. Having no scholarships wouldn't exactly do wonders for our NCAA chances...
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