sead43
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 796
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Post by sead43 on Jan 17, 2009 23:47:16 GMT -5
Only at Duke could the AWAY team be assessed a technical for what a fan said. This is something people really haven't talked about in all this...people seem to be implying that even if Cahill had realized it was a fan who said something, he could have (and even should have) still given a T to the Hoyas bench. That seems absurd to me. First of all, how could he possibly know which team to give the foul to. Yes, the fan was complaining about a call against GU and it was coming from behind the Hoyas bench, but what if it was a Duke fan sitting by the bench who was trying to get a T called on the Hoyas. If that were (or is) the rule, why don't home fans sitting behind all opposing teams' benches yell at the refs about calls against the opposing team to try and draw a foul against that team?? Last time I checked, fans do not wear uniforms informing refs of which team they are "associated" with, so how can one team possibly be held responsible for the actions of any fan???
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nathanhm
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by nathanhm on Jan 18, 2009 0:38:11 GMT -5
Here is how I see it. He is a paid professional and he made an a enormous mistake in assigning a Technical foul on a particular player instead of the bench itself.
I respect all his years of service to the NCAA but plain and simple he made the kind of mistake that would get all of us a serious reprimand and possible loss of employment if he worked for some other organization other than the NCAA.
I work for a large Pharma organization and saying oopps I made a big mistake in a critical juncture of a major project would not keep me safe from losing my job. If he didn't POSITIVELY see Monroe say something then he should have called a bench technical on Georgetown instead of assigning it to a particular player.
There has been a decent amount of coverage of Duke getting unwarranted favorable calls at home, so much that the NCAA HAS to be aware of it, and they should be making decisions that reassures the fans that the sanctity of the game is being preserved. So for such a controversial call to be made at such a critical juncture of the game, it just leads to people writing off the reliability of the refs again.
The NCAA needs to publicly address what happened in this game and definitively say we stand behind this call or it was a mistaken call because it truly undermines the trust that people have in officials.
If this game were at Georgetown and Kyle Singler was called for his 4th foul and a technical based off the words of an angry Duke fan this would immediately warrent a 6 part ESPN special on the bias of NCAA refs.
As a fan of college basketball I DEMAND better of the NCAA and I want to see this fully addressed and not just ignored like so many other issues that fans have questions over.
/END RANT.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 18, 2009 1:19:59 GMT -5
I cannot freaking believe Sportscenter made no mention of the technical whatsoever.
The purported foul on Simms that lead to the tech was an absolutely terrible call itself. The tech was BS. And the double foul they called on the very next play on Singular and Wattad was BS...Singular mugged Wattad. That was the game.
Gimme Duke on a neutral court in March.......
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hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyabinx on Jan 18, 2009 1:24:37 GMT -5
The rules just say that "the officials shall have knowledge as to which team's follower(s) committed the act" before assessing a technical (Note 1 to Rule 10.2.9 in the 2009 rulebook[/url]). Anyway, the rulebook also gives the refs the option to eject fans without assessing a technical (see Note 2 to Rule 10.2.9). Seems to me that that should be the default penalty for bad behavior for someone not immediately associated with the team (players, coaches, managers). If whatever's going on in the stands is bad enough that an official feels he must do something, he should just throw the bums out and get back to the game. No reason drunken foul-mouths should affect what happens on the floor.[/quote] Interesting, I didn't even think the refs could ACTUALLY give a technical to an away team's fans. In fact, I doubt its ever actually happened, they probably just kick out fans every time. The fact that he immediately gave the tech BEFORE he looked at Monroe (check the tape), says enough for me. He was eager to tech up Monroe and took the first chance he had to, which from reports appears to be a fan behind our bench. I've been watching Georgetown basketball enough to know that when you see Cahill and/or Burr are reffing, we are in for a long game. They did nothing today to dispel my apprehension at seeing them troll the sidelines at the beginning of games. EDIT: Saw a Highlight. He looked at Monroe before he gave the tech. But, he clearly heard something he did not like, jerked his head to look right at (presumably) Monroe and whistled the Tech.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 18, 2009 1:26:56 GMT -5
The real question is: who was the guy in the yellow Steelers cap behind Monroe (identified in several different game articles as the culprit)? That ought to be pretty easily visible on the replays.
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hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,043
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Post by hoyabinx on Jan 18, 2009 1:43:25 GMT -5
When I watched it a second time, right after the Sims foul, Steelers Hat was looking at his blackberry, not paying attention. I am glad Cahill managed to let that guy insert himself into the game.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Jan 18, 2009 2:01:12 GMT -5
He should be eligible for some sort of Duke MVP award. Can he be interviewed and become famous like say, Joe the Plumber?
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by jgalt on Jan 18, 2009 2:25:57 GMT -5
The worst part for me is that there is very little over site for refs. i know that the refs self assess themselves (and are on the whole very good at a very difficult job) and the coaches fill out cards after the game on the reffing. But there is never an instance where after a call like this the NCAA will come out and say "it was the wrong call and that ref has been shown why and how to learn from that" (the ridiculousness in the NBA where they will replay a portion of a game is unnecessary) it just really up sets me that there is so little over site. it also irks me that JTIII cant complain publicly about it with out getting punished, that is a load of crap.
Im not surprised that the culprit is from Pittsburgh, there is nothing redeeming about that city, especially its people
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FLHoya
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Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 18, 2009 2:26:57 GMT -5
Not to hijack this thread...but apparently it was "Fan Involvement Day" in the Big East. Yelling at John Cahill at picking up a T for Greg Monroe is one thing...but check out the dude who, after an inadvertant collison gashed up Jeff Xavier's nose in the PC-MU game, came down from the stands, climbed over the Providence bench, and walked on the court during a free throw to confront an official. At the 1:33 mark, you can seem him in the very top right of the screen get up and make his move.
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hsaxa2010
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by hsaxa2010 on Jan 18, 2009 3:01:32 GMT -5
Not to hijack this thread...but apparently it was "Fan Involvement Day" in the Big East. Yelling at John Cahill at picking up a T for Greg Monroe is one thing...but check out the dude who, after an inadvertant collison gashed up Jeff Xavier's nose in the PC-MU game, came down from the stands, climbed over the Providence bench, and walked on the court during a free throw to confront an official. At the 1:33 mark, you can seem him in the very top right of the screen get up and make his move. ESPN was reporting that it was Jeff Xavier's brother and the he was taken to the Providence police station
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Madgesdiq
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,434
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Post by Madgesdiq on Jan 18, 2009 7:59:06 GMT -5
The worst part for me is that there is very little over site for refs. i know that the refs self assess themselves (and are on the whole very good at a very difficult job) and the coaches fill out cards after the game on the reffing. But there is never an instance where after a call like this the NCAA will come out and say "it was the wrong call and that ref has been shown why and how to learn from that" (the ridiculousness in the NBA where they will replay a portion of a game is unnecessary) it just really up sets me that there is so little over site. it also irks me that JTIII cant complain publicly about it with out getting punished, that is a load of crap. Im not surprised that the culprit is from Pittsburgh, there is nothing redeeming about that city, especially its people In 2007, noted windbag John Feinstein wrote an article about this exact topic, singling out Cahill for his non-flagrant call on Oden at the end of the OSU-Xavier game. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/20/AR2007032000589.html
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Madgesdiq
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Madgesdiq on Jan 18, 2009 8:11:44 GMT -5
Wouldn't expect this article from a NC paper. Fayetteville Observer www.fayobserver.com/article?id=316167"Phantom technical helps Duke top Georgetown By Dan Wiederer Staff writer DURHAM — There’s just no way around it. Basketball official John Cahill owes Georgetown an apology. He owes Greg Monroe an apology."
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Jan 18, 2009 8:18:56 GMT -5
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Hoya50
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Post by Hoya50 on Jan 18, 2009 8:35:43 GMT -5
out of 25 years of watching basketball, that was certainly one of the strangest calls i've seen. a bench technical - ok. a technical on an assistant - ok. i cannot recall ever seeing a college player t'd up on the bench. i would expect a verteran ref to minimally warn jtiii before dropping such an unusual technical. the game's momentum and direction completely changed based on that call.
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HoyaChris
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Post by HoyaChris on Jan 18, 2009 8:41:32 GMT -5
Think about it. The Hoyas were +15 at Cameron in the 28 minutes when Greg Monroe was on the court. By extension that means we were -24 in the 12 minutes when he was on the bench. Put succinctly, Greg was worth 2.5 points per minute against Duke. And this is even giving full effect to his defensive effort after the technical which was borrowed from a spanish bullfighting ring.
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rambis
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by rambis on Jan 18, 2009 9:12:59 GMT -5
Refs make mistakes favoring Duke. They are then punished. Here: tinyurl.com/8cpv7land more here: tinyurl.com/8futg6When have you ever heard of an official making a call with his back to the action? YOU CANNOT MAKE A CALL YOU DIDN'T SEE!!! We have to be insufferable, self-loathing wusses if we are going to act quietly dignified accepting that refs can start calling fouls that they didn't see. It's not a question of whether he thought he was right or not. There's no room for argument. You can't speculate about his intent. If he didn't see the freaking foul, he can't call it. Before making excuses for this ref, about how he thought he made the correct decision, think about how preposterous this sounds. He called a foul he clearly didn't see. You simply cannot maintain any integrity in the game if you have officiating by conjecture. A complaint should be filed against this official and the ACC should take swift disciplinary action against him as they have done in other instances.
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Post by 1984alloveragain on Jan 18, 2009 9:35:01 GMT -5
ESPN 2 DID have a stat about GREG after the highlights of the game last night that showed that when GREG was in the game, the Hoyas were +15 against the "most beloved and immaculate" dukies, but when GREG was not in the game, the Hoyas were -23 against them. That says it all when it shows his effect on the game and the idiotic calls by the refs (especially from one who called NOTHING on oden when he basically raped the Xavier player. It's a shame we have to look at these things after games rather than let the kids decide who the better team is.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jan 18, 2009 9:35:14 GMT -5
Why does this seem to happen when we go to Durham? A couple of games ago it was people flopping with in a foot of Sweetney - now its Greg Monroe getting similar treatment plus a foul called on him while he's on the bench. This is ridiculous. The next game should be the end of the series. If this is what we are going to get, we should just wait until we can play them on a neutral floor in a tournament game - otherwise, I'm getting tired of a series where we are going to have terrible calls impacting the flow and result of the game.
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quickplay
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by quickplay on Jan 18, 2009 9:42:22 GMT -5
It just seems like the whole game the team wasn't given a fair chance. -Monroe gets a T from the bench -Greg Paulus steps into someone (wright, sapp? don't remember) like he wants to fight, no T
But unbelievably: Singler literally swings at Wattad and just gets an intentional foul. That should have been an ejection, I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more mention of it.
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Post by tpk3 on Jan 18, 2009 9:56:42 GMT -5
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