hoya39
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Post by hoya39 on Jan 17, 2009 21:39:40 GMT -5
FL Hoya, I watch every game very closely. The Villanova game last year was clearly called in Villanovas favor all game. I remember 5 of the exact same calls called on us on outside the nba 3 point perimiter. We had a substantial lead with 4-5 minutes left and the refs went crazy on us. While I do believe the last call should not have happened in that game neither should the 5 that got nova back into it.
Davidsonville last year. Another travesty. 9 offensive fouls called on us with 7 of them off the ball. Some ja ref with an agenda puts to end a dream for great kids who stayed in school and worked their butts off. It makes me sick.
Today. Monroe was taken out of the game for bigger reasons than all of us know. No freakin way a ref can make the calls he did on Monroe. A big man is entitled to make the moves he did without getting a charge call. As far as the T is concerned it is beyond belief to me that cahill can make that call. I hope this Editedes Monroe off and lights a huge fire under his butt.
Please go back and watch how many calls were made against gtown prior to the last one against Nova. Reynols sat on the line shooting freethrows for 3 minutes.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Jan 17, 2009 21:39:54 GMT -5
Only at Duke could the AWAY team be assessed a technical for what a fan said.
Only at Duke could the best player on a team be called for 4 fouls without getting a defensive foul called on him.
That really says it all for me.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 17, 2009 21:41:58 GMT -5
That's a very thoughtful post, FL, but I disagree to an extent. I don't see the decision to tech up a particular player (rather than the bench) as a 50/50 call, particularly if you don't see the player jawing at you. In a loud environment, with your back to the bench, there's just no basis to be assigning a foul to a particular individual. Donato was at least looking at the action when he made his judgment call, so he had all the relevant evidence in front of him. Cahill's technical just seemed like lashing out. I agree with you--I noted in my post that I consider Donato's call subjective (was the contact sufficient for a blocking foul) and Cahill's an objective issue (was the foul on this guy or that guy). But I felt comfortable making the analogy b/c Donato's call so clearly and directly influenced the outcome of that game. I'm operating under the assumption that Cahill honestly believed he heard Monroe say something warranting a technical. There is just no way in my mind that an official of his caliber would make such a specific call for no reason. That is, I'd bet the farm he wasn't "lashing out"--and certainly had no reason to at Monroe. He knows the rulebook, and what consistutes a bench technical vs. technical on a specific player. I just think based on the evidence as I've been presented that he made a mistake.
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Post by hoyachick on Jan 17, 2009 21:42:26 GMT -5
My biggest question from word go was this:
From EVERY press report post Jan 1, they have referenced Monroe's voice. I have not have had the pleasure of hearing it firsthand, but it seems to me that if it was Monroe jawing, it would be pretty damn easy to call. From all accounts, the dude is singing bass for the Four Tops.
Since there was delay/confusion that call was BS.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 17, 2009 21:45:20 GMT -5
Wallace was out of bounds when that foul was called, so it was either a foul or 'Nova should have had the ball with time left on the clock. Moreover, Donato was actually looking at the play. Oh, I'm with you 110% there and I think Donato made the correct call. The call itself isn't really what I'm getting at, but rather the fallout from a controversial call on the official involved.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 17, 2009 21:49:04 GMT -5
If Greg's voice is particularly distinctive, that could be the answer right there. Someone behind the bench with a similarly deep voice makes a comment and Cahill -- familiar with Greg's voice -- mistakes the offender for Greg. Obviously, I don't agree with assessing the T based on the "what are the odds that two people are baritones within five feet of each other" school of refereeing. But the explanation makes sense. Certainly more sense than "Cahill was out to screw the Hoyas."
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 17, 2009 21:49:13 GMT -5
Unless he was certain, he should have never put it on a single player.
It's obvious he was completely wrong and therefore uncertain.
Good, experienced officials screw up things like this all the time. A very close example is Ed Hochuli's awful call in Denver in Week 2. Getting it wrong is one thing; getting it wrong by blowing the whistle when you should always let the play play out then make the call is inexcusable.
It's the same thing here. You simply cannot make that call unless you are absolutely sure. You can pretend he wouldn't make an emotional call, but I've seen enough of Cahill to see that he is often emotional.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 17, 2009 21:49:30 GMT -5
The CBS announcers also said they thought it was a fan who was jawing at the ref. This call was bizarre and unfortunate.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on Jan 17, 2009 21:52:58 GMT -5
The CBS announcers also said they thought it was a fan who was jawing at the ref. This call was bizarre and unfortunate. and expected
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoopsmccan on Jan 17, 2009 21:54:02 GMT -5
If Monroe-type plays are called offensive fouls when Duke plays UNC, Hansbrough will play about 45 seconds before fouling out...of course I won't see it because I don't subject myself to Duke games unless I have to. The level of flopping is sickening. I was a bit embarrassed when Wattad was doing it, I can't imagine if that was a staple move of the majority of my team year after year..
hm
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 17, 2009 21:56:11 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 17, 2009 22:06:04 GMT -5
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 17, 2009 22:06:57 GMT -5
I think it was more like Cahill was looking to get Monroe out of the game.
If you notice on the play right before the T Simms got caught under the basket with Signler and the ref (I can't remember if it was Cahill or not but I assume so) is about to make the call but then realizes that it's Sims and not Monroe and hesitates for a second before continuing with the call.
This indicates to me that he was actively searching for Monroe to give him foul calls. And then continued to do so when Monroe was on the bench.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 17, 2009 22:24:30 GMT -5
How dare this kid named Monroe dis the greatest coach in the universe by signing with Georgetown while declining to even make a visit to the holy land. He must be punished when he comes to Cameron so no recruit will dare to be so disrespectful to the annointed one again.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jan 17, 2009 22:25:45 GMT -5
Hmmm....
A guy with a deep baritone voice was sitting right behind the Georgetown bench and yelling profanities at the ref. Big John Thompson anybody? ;-)
(Tongue in cheek, since I'm sure Cahill knows Big John's voice VERY well!)
I have a feeling that Cahill probably knows he got this one wrong, and he might have known it a couple seconds after he made it. Speaking from personal experience, it's one of the worst feelings as a ref to make a call and a split second later realize it was probably the wrong call. But a ref has to act like he's perfect - if you look indecisive or wavering your authority disappears in an instant. From a ref's point of view, it's better to stand behind one bad call than back down and lose control of the game and every other game you ref in the future. It's unfortunate, but that's how it works. If Cahill changes that call with JTIII in his face about it, every coach/player he calls for a foul will instantly get in his face and try to get him to change that call to. He was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.
As far as protesting the call, knowing how Georgetown and the NCAA work, even if there was some sort of protest or complaint we would NEVER hear about it.
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Post by hoyafrigginsaxa on Jan 17, 2009 22:27:04 GMT -5
new motto for student shirts... no T's without ANY evidence
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Post by hoyafrigginsaxa on Jan 17, 2009 22:31:49 GMT -5
moe09 i agree completely. at least see me do something before you call me on something
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hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyabinx on Jan 17, 2009 22:32:10 GMT -5
Just watched it again. The foul on Sims that set off the words was such a bad call its painful. He literally put his hands up and backed away from Singler right as Singler started falling, to show that he wasn't involved (normally a bogus move by a defender after the contact had already been made, but not so in this case). Who called it? Thats right, Cahill. He is awful.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 17, 2009 22:33:22 GMT -5
FL, the call at the end of the 'Nova game and today's T on Monroe are nothing alike. The ref had to blow his whistle in Philly last year, either to call the foul or to call Wallace out of bounds. No one wanted to see the game so obviously decided by a foul, least of all the 'Nova fans, and that's really what all the ensuing bloviating was about. Everyone wanted to pretend that the contact hadn't happened because in a perfect world that's not how basketball games end. Bilas said that the official should have just ignored it all and sent the game to overtime, and that's what most sports fans wanted (and what sometimes happens in similar situations), but really it's absurd to get upset about the rules being enforced properly. We may never know whether Monroe mouthed off (though it seems out of character enough that I believe the kid when he said he didn't say anything). But Cahill clearly didn't know either and all the same thought, "Ah, what the hell, let's give this game to Duke." Let me emphasize again--my Donato-Cahill comparison is not about the calls themselves. I think Donato's was subjective, and he got it right. I think Cahill's was objective, and he got it wrong. I was responding to a question about whether there was any recourse to be taken related to Cahill's call. I tried to find a recent case where there was a strong fan reaction to a call that decided the outcome of a game. The Donato call isn't a perfect parallel--again, he got the call RIGHT--but it did produce a large outcry from Nova fans AND compelled the Big East to issue statements on the game in the days that followed (still TBD whether that'll happen here). I thought in that sense it fit well enough to illustrate my point. How about an example involving technical fouls: In the Second Round of the 2008 NCAA Tournament, Curtis Shaw ejected Stanford's coach from a game. It got a lot of attention at the time because many folks felt Shaw (get this) acted unprofessionally and basically provoked Stanford's coach into the ejection. Now, Stanford won the game but Shaw What became of Curtis Shaw for this injustice? He got a Sweet 16 and a Final Four assignment. My ONLY point here: these sorts of things have far less of an impact on the officials' future assignments than you'd think. They ARE assessed and evaluated regularly and tournament assignments are (in theory) merit based...but those hoping for the guillotine to fall on Cahill are gonna be disappointed. The second paragraph above though...I realize may have been said in jest...but except in rare cases (Shaw being one actually), I do not ever believe officials are consciously trying to "take a guy out" of a game or "give the game to Team X". I mean, think through that scenario. If John Cahill pre-determined that he was going to single Greg Monroe out for a technical for no reason at the first provocation from the area of the Hoya bench...that's the kind of thing that costs a guy his career. Just gonna have to accept that for whatever reason Cahill unintentionally made a stupid mistake today to our detriment.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Jan 17, 2009 23:01:57 GMT -5
To Mike Wise-Yes the call was a travesty and the damage was far worse than to anybody's potential NCAA bid; the damage was to the very integrity of the game. Cahill was doing everything he could to make sure that one team played without its best player. He was a partisan and not an arbitraitor. His sin is the worst that someone in his profession or a profession such as spying can have-he is no longer anonymous. If an official does his job right, his name is only in small print in the corner of the box score. That he is on the front page is a failure and probably the worst kind of failure someone in his profession can have.
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