Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 560
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Post by Omega on Jan 15, 2009 12:38:57 GMT -5
I didn't read all the posts in this thread, but i read enough to know that folks who are claiming that it was a legit foul are way off base. The bottom line is that you do not run down a more atheltic player from behind in an attempt to block his shot! There is a zero to slim chance of blocking a dunk when the ball is stolen at midcourt. As Doris said, "if it was the play ground, there would have been a fight." People that play the game know that there are unspoken and unwritten rules to the game of basketball. For example, if a player goes to the rim, you don't undercut him/her. Although the rules of the game may have dictated that the player made a play on the ball and therefore there should be no flagerant foul, in the spirit of the game something like that should not be allowed to happen and go unchallanged. Summers could have been seriously hurt and I'm sure he is feeling it today. GU could have lost a key contributor to their team, while SU would have lost a reserve for the remainder of the game...............
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quickplay
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 733
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Post by quickplay on Jan 15, 2009 12:40:23 GMT -5
You said the player's actions and not the result of the play should determine the call? The defender's actions are exactly what determines the result of the play. Dajuan landed on the floor because on a play that was clearly going to finish in the air (dunk or not) he was hit hard hard from an arm across the body.
It wasn't insanely dirty or malicious, but it was more than just going for the ball and having contact. It was a hard foul to stop Summers from scoring and was called as such. Unfortunately for him, he wasn't strong enough.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,669
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Post by seaweed on Jan 15, 2009 12:51:47 GMT -5
People that play the game know that there are unspoken and unwritten rules to the game of basketball. .. There are also the written rules, like this little gem from the cover page of the NCAA basketball rule book: The primary goal of the rules is to maximize the safety and enjoyment of the student-athlete. Maybe KO can't read in English yet, but he did not show any concern for DS safety (not that DaJuan seemed to care about KO's 'enjoyment'). The ONLY thing I will say to support him (I was going to say in his defense, but he had no D) is that Summers came up screaming AND ONE, not with his arms crossed in the intentional foul signal. Then again, the way he has been playing lately, you could run over DaJuan with a Mack Truck and he would probably get up laughing, fired up and rallying his teammates before calmly burying his foul shot with a smile - he is my thug!
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Post by chrismchaines on Jan 15, 2009 13:08:29 GMT -5
This exchange was the play of the game for both sides. Thought the T was a tad quick (not a great call, but also, given the situation and the teams playing, not a bad one either), but thought the Flagrant/Intentional was warranted (though probably wouldn't have been terribly fired up if it wasn't called).
Great play by DaJuan and a strong effort (hustle-wise) by KO. Cuse fans will love that KO tried to physically stop Summers from making the slam, and we all love how Summers made the dunk and got right up after the hard foul. I love that emotion and I love Austin playing quick mediator. Just a great, classic Big East exchange.
One other thing that I caught in the ESPN highlight of the game. After Summers gets up and gets in KO's face, KO stands and stares right back at him (camera behind KO). Then Austin holds DaJuan back and KO turns and the camera catches the look on his face: absolutely, unequivocally relieved. I would have been too if I was in his shoes. Not a good night for KO.
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FewFAC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,032
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Post by FewFAC on Jan 15, 2009 14:02:07 GMT -5
Why am I not surprised to see this from a fan whose board changes people's posts? If I had come on here flaming like seabiscuit did over there, my posts would have been summarily deleted. So your admins a bit more conservative than ours. They had some fun with it and he got all touchy about it. If he had kept it clean himself, like I have done, he would have been able to keep posting. But he wasn't interested in discussing basketball, just stirring the pot. I do a bit of that but much more hoops talk. Which is why your admins haven't banned me - yet. You can spin it anyway you like. Classless = censoring opposing fan's viewpoints just because you disagree. Not to mention smallminded.
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Post by daymondmyles on Jan 15, 2009 14:08:07 GMT -5
Hoyalove4ever, you are completely wrong. And whomever said there is a good argument for either way on the flagrant foul is delusional. Not sure if you all were at the game, but we were sitting a few rows back from that side of the floor, and there was ZERO chance that Ongenaet was going for the block much less a possibility that he would get one. We saw him racing after Dajuan and assumed at most he would try to block from behind because he was so beat. Instead he took a hack at Dajuan's body in an exposed position and could have seriously injured Dajuan if he weren't a man-beast. He was clearly not going for the ball. As I said last night, just because that loser is not going to the NBA doesn't give him an excuse to ruin Dajuan's NBA career.
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Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
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Post by Buckets on Jan 15, 2009 14:10:13 GMT -5
That is absolutely a flagrant foul. When was the last time you saw a guy going to the rim get taken down by the neck and it not called a flagrant foul? It's just not very often you see a guy finish like DaJuan did, but this is a (fairly) common play that gets called a flagrant almost every time. And the suggestion that KO went up on that play with any intention of legitimately blocking that shot is so ridiculous I won't even address this.
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jan 15, 2009 14:15:55 GMT -5
Think the refs got it exactly right here and I don't think it is a close call for either player. The foul by SU was clearly flagrant and Summers reaction (while completely understandable and I have no problem with him doing it) was worthy of a technical.
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hoyajoker07
Century (over 100 posts)
"This league deserves a better class of basketball"
Posts: 140
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Post by hoyajoker07 on Jan 15, 2009 14:16:18 GMT -5
I don't know if it was the angle Dajuan slammed it from or the ridiculous air he had, but it reminded me of Jeff Green's put-back dunk the final four year. Anyone remember who we were playing? It was some shot that rebounded and Jeff slammed it home with like two or three people between him and the basket?
I remember reading somewhere Jessie said something like "At first I was really excited, and then I realized, he dunked that OVER me."
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Jan 15, 2009 14:17:54 GMT -5
cuseinVT - you make it sound like I came into a nunnery with my smack talk. Your admin is not only less conservative, they also embrace a personal tort called defamation, but I will deal with Mr. Lynn separately. You should really just go rewatch this game a few times and see if you can learn something about class from watching the Fruit getting outclassed in every sense of the word. OK, I'm intrigued. Got a link for this light banter?
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Jan 15, 2009 14:17:55 GMT -5
I don't know if it was the angle Dajuan slammed it from or the ridiculous air he had, but it reminded me of Jeff Green's put-back dunk the final four year. Anyone remember who we were playing? It was some shot that rebounded and Jeff slammed it home with like two or three people between him and the basket? I remember reading somewhere Jessie said something like "At first I was really excited, and then I realized, he dunked that OVER me." That would be the slam from the BC game in the second round
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,346
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Jan 15, 2009 14:18:10 GMT -5
DaJuan got hit up around the head/neck from behind. That's going to be a flagrant every time - the refs won't let you hit a guy in the head.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 15, 2009 14:19:49 GMT -5
You don't evaluate the play on the basis of the result. As I said in my original post, I would feel the same way if that play had ended Dajaun's season- and I would add, even his career.
In addition, you can go for the ball and hit the body, whether it be the arm, neck, or face, instead. If you swing your arm at the ball in an effort to hit it, that is a play on the ball, and it should be a regular, old foul- period.
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,346
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Jan 15, 2009 14:21:42 GMT -5
You don't evaluate the play on the basis of the result. As I said in my original post, I would feel the same way if that play had ended Dajaun's season- and I would add, even his career. In addition, you can go for the ball and hit the body, whether it be the arm, neck, or face, instead. If you swing your arm at the ball in an effort to hit it, that is a play on the ball, and it should be a regular, old foul- period. The refs can't judge intent. If you have no chance at getting the ball and instead club a guy in a dangerous position around the head/neck it's an intentional foul every time.
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hoyajoker07
Century (over 100 posts)
"This league deserves a better class of basketball"
Posts: 140
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Post by hoyajoker07 on Jan 15, 2009 14:24:34 GMT -5
I don't know if it was the angle Dajuan slammed it from or the ridiculous air he had, but it reminded me of Jeff Green's put-back dunk the final four year. Anyone remember who we were playing? It was some shot that rebounded and Jeff slammed it home with like two or three people between him and the basket? I remember reading somewhere Jessie said something like "At first I was really excited, and then I realized, he dunked that OVER me." That would be the slam from the BC game in the second round Much obliged!
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Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Just Cos on Jan 15, 2009 14:26:39 GMT -5
I just want to join the mob and say hoyalove4ever is completely wrong on this. He should be banned from posting for at least a week.
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Post by daymondmyles on Jan 15, 2009 14:30:27 GMT -5
HE WASN'T GOING FOR THE BALL!! That's pretty clear.
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Post by cusefaninvt on Jan 15, 2009 14:37:42 GMT -5
Clearly DS heard the interview with Pops and I am glad he did. As for the foul by KO, he barely left the ground and to me that says it all. If a 6'9" player is on a break away and you don't get near the rim then you are not playing defense. Everyone knows the play is going to happen within an inch of the rim and if you don't leave the ground then you are not iinvolved in the play - you are intentionally trying to stop the play by fouling, hence the term Intentional Foul. cuseinVT - you make it sound like I came into a nunnery with my smack talk. Your admin is not only less conservative, they also embrace a personal tort called defamation, but I will deal with Mr. Lynn separately. You should really just go rewatch this game a few times and see if you can learn something about class from watching the Fruit getting outclassed in every sense of the word. Wow, you get all high and mighty and threaten me with a lawsuit because I use your handle of seaweed over there and now you are giving out actual names (i'm assuming anyway) on this thread. I'll pass that along to the admin over there. You are going to make a heck of an attorney.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,578
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 15, 2009 14:46:08 GMT -5
MOD NOTE:
seaweed: this board is not the place to be posting complaints you have about treatment on another internet board.
cusefaninvt: "asked and answered" applies here. The two of you have gone back and forth on an issue occuring elsewhere that has nothing to do with the discussion here.
Subsequent similar posts will be deleted.
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Post by cusefaninvt on Jan 15, 2009 14:56:15 GMT -5
HE WASN'T GOING FOR THE BALL!! That's pretty clear. You all are out of your minds if you don't think he made a play on the ball. Heck he just missed (by about 4-6 inches) it if you actually watch the replay in slow motion. Onganaet used his right hand to grab onto Summer's left. And Kristoff used his left hand and took a pretty good swipe at the ball, clearly missed, and his momentum brought the arm down into the upper chest area, just under the neck of Summers. I would say he made a play on the ball. And yes, I just watched it again, right before I posted this. Again, if it happened the other way I would still be saying the wrong call was made both ways. This is almost as bad an argument as those on other SU boards who implied or flat out said that JT3 put in the Russian intentionally to take out Rautins. Anyone who makes these arguments has never actually played basketball. And as for the nonsense Burke was spewing about this play would have resulted in a fight on the playground, well of course it would. I've seen fights start for much less physical play than this. Stupid.
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