FewFAC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,032
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Post by FewFAC on Jan 15, 2009 10:40:49 GMT -5
the dunk was priceless. The yelling in the losers face was priceless. The "Who me" reacition was priceless. That entire exchange can be summed up with "priceless" I'm sorry, who was it that was saying Cuse fans and players are classless? I think this post speaks for itself, but then again, it is a lawyer talking here - nuff said. Why am I not surprised to see this from a fan whose board changes people's posts?
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 15, 2009 10:48:16 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts here. I thought it was a good hard foul, but it wasn't cheap or dirty. When you foul someone you should do whatever you can to make sure he doesn't make the shot. Especially a dunk at home. He missed and ended up grabbing much more arm, but he WAS going for the ball. And I would have said the same thing if it was Summers taking out Harris in the Dome in a completely identical play. I also didn't think it should have been a T. The players were separated and the situation was diffusing. The ref let HIS emotion get to him. Intersting thing is that Hess seemed to have a pretty good view of the play, and called the intentional pretty quickly. The T was a judgment call, and IIRC, Hess waited a bit to call it. So he must not have liked the cut of DaJuan's jib. But I agree, it seemed like DaJuan said his piece, but never got physical with the dutchman. Hess should have stepped between them long before Summers ever got off the floor.
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Post by cusefaninvt on Jan 15, 2009 10:55:02 GMT -5
I'm sorry, who was it that was saying Cuse fans and players are classless? I think this post speaks for itself, but then again, it is a lawyer talking here - nuff said. Why am I not surprised to see this from a fan whose board changes people's posts? If I had come on here flaming like seabiscuit did over there, my posts would have been summarily deleted. So your admins a bit more conservative than ours. They had some fun with it and he got all touchy about it. If he had kept it clean himself, like I have done, he would have been able to keep posting. But he wasn't interested in discussing basketball, just stirring the pot. I do a bit of that but much more hoops talk. Which is why your admins haven't banned me - yet.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 15, 2009 11:15:46 GMT -5
And I would respond that the contact at issue did not seem severe or extreme to me. It was a typical foul on a fast break. When you have two bigs, strong players colliding, that type of contact is typical- not severe or extreme. You're so wrong. Of course he can go for the block. But if he decides to go for the block by swinging your entire arm against the offensive player at the level of his head, that's not "typical." How else is he supposed to go for the block? Dajaun was ahead of him on a fast break? Both players had all of their momentum going forward. You get your arm up and try to get it to the ball. And then you follow through in a downward motion, to try to prevent the basket. That is the proper technique, and it is completely clean. The flagrant foul should be judged by the defensive player's actions- not the result of the play. Again, this is a situation where I hate to stand up for the allegedly offending player, but Gerald Henderson's foul that broke Hansborough's nose in '07 was not the least bit dirty. Hansborough got the rebound and started to go back up, so Henderson did what any defensive player should have done- cocked his arm back and tried to go up to block the shot as hard as possible. Of course he didn't anticipate that he would get bumped while in the air, and that his elbow would crack Hansborough in the nose. While it was a bad result, there was nothing severe, reckless, or improper about the defensive player's actions. What I have much more issue about are attempts to hurt an opposing player- even when they fail. Earlier this season, there was a replay of some guy playing against Oklahoma who tried to trip Blake Griffin. Griffin was not injured, but I would have no problem with that guy being suspended for say, five games. That garbage has no place in basketball. Hard fouls, on the other hand, are simply part of the game.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,780
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 15, 2009 11:22:05 GMT -5
All I know is that it should take a shiv in the back to get a T in a Syracuse-Gtown game, but can you seriously blame the refs for being a little quick to get things under control?
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
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Post by Boz on Jan 15, 2009 11:25:10 GMT -5
All I know is that it should take a shiv in the back to get a T in a Syracuse-Gtown game..... Man, don't give Devendorf any ideas.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 15, 2009 11:28:43 GMT -5
All I know is that it should take a shiv in the back to get a T in a Syracuse-Gtown game..... Man, don't give Devendorf any ideas. BA-ZING!
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Post by cusefaninvt on Jan 15, 2009 11:29:09 GMT -5
All I know is that it should take a shiv in the back to get a T in a Syracuse-Gtown game..... Man, don't give Devendorf any ideas. You clearly haven't watched enough SU hoops if you think Devo would be involved in the giving end of a hard foul.
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pws
Member
Posts: 67
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Post by pws on Jan 15, 2009 11:37:24 GMT -5
I don't know if this is the appropriate place to bring this up, but lets be clear.
IT IS NOW IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A TECHNICAL FOUL FOR HANGING ON THE RIM.
I know that you are allowed to hang on the rim to protect yourself, but that Onuaku dunk late in the 2nd half was as close to a "t" as I've seen in a while, and the refs just dont call this anymore. I'm not bringing this up now because it was SU/GU. The last time I saw this called was Nat Burton against Howard, when he dunked, swung underneath the basket, swung back, dismounted, and slapped the top of the backboard with both hands.
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Post by fsohoya on Jan 15, 2009 11:37:42 GMT -5
Devendork would give some hard fouls if he were playing a girl's team...
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tgo
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 802
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Post by tgo on Jan 15, 2009 11:42:05 GMT -5
I thought that the ref responded to Dajuan's emotion and was giving him a T, at which point you could not give him a T and not T up cuse for the play. i think if dajuan doesnt get up as if he is going knock somebody down there might not be a technical on the play, at least on tv, it appeared the T wasnt called until after the reaction by summers. the announcers rightly said that if that play happened in a pick up game there would have been a fight, that seems to be a good barometer for me to say that it deserved a technical from the cuse perspective, i would conceed the T but still be happy about the play the defender made. cuse looked flat and out of it at that point, at least someone was caring enough about the game to put someone on the floor with a hard foul, a play like that can get a team charged and change the energy on the floor so for cuse that has to be one of the only times when they thought they had a chance to get back in the game, didnt work out but at least someone was trying. when it happened i was thinking it was very important for us not to let cuse score the next 5 or 7 points since that would change the entire feel of the game.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,780
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 15, 2009 11:48:05 GMT -5
Man, don't give Devendorf any ideas. You clearly haven't watched enough SU hoops if you think Devo would be involved in the giving end of a hard foul. You clearly haven't watched a Syracuse game if you think Devo is actually on the defensive end of the floor.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,011
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Post by dense on Jan 15, 2009 11:48:20 GMT -5
way wrong on this one hoyalove4ever, if they call a T...it counts as 2 fouls on the play. But I'm telling you they call all flagrant fouls intentional fouls because the College game has no rule as a such. And yes you can go for the block but when you have 0 chance of it happening you need to realize that and not go in recklessly trying to hurt someone. If that play happens on the playground that is an instant fight because there is a knowledge among players that you cant just go for a block when someone is a position like that, that is like undercutting someone essentially cause you have no way of protecting yourself.
Like i said i dont think Onegaut was trying to hurt DaJuan, I think he was just stupid to attempt to stop him in such a manner and an intentional foul was needed there. Imagine if they dont call that an intentional foul or just say its a clean attempt..... I absolutely assure you a fight breaks out in that game.
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saxamaphone
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Yes III Can.
Posts: 259
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Post by saxamaphone on Jan 15, 2009 11:49:09 GMT -5
Man, don't give Devendorf any ideas. You clearly haven't watched enough SU hoops if you think Devo would be involved in the giving end of a hard foul. He will, however, repeatedly kick your car's bumper after the game.
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Hoya50
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 805
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Post by Hoya50 on Jan 15, 2009 11:55:43 GMT -5
i really think the t was justified. summers was on the ground, got up and walked towards the dude and yelled. that is straight up taunting and deserved the t. i loved every second of it though, so don't take my opinion as one of disapproval. to convey his message, summers should just get up and stare his opponent down - the dunk did all the talking.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 15, 2009 12:04:43 GMT -5
That was definitely a flagrant foul the ball was in the hoop before dajuan got hit. He had 0% chance to play the ball and he knew it. watching the video I can see how it might not look like a flagrant foul but it was very dangerous contact that could have really injured summers. He was way late on the bloack attempt so he just hit dajuan in the shoulder/body. If he had gotten the arm maybe you don't call it but it was essentially a late hit in football Play was over then he gets hit. I don't think it was intentionally dirty but it was a dirty result.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Jan 15, 2009 12:05:34 GMT -5
It's basketball in Big East. It was a hard foul and Summers got up in the guy's face--and yelled "And One"--but it was in his face. He got the "T" and deserved it--but thought it was good officiating--to prevent anything else from blowing up.
I've seen Cheddar Bob do some dirty things on court--remember his dirty play on Jeff Green 2 years ago?
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Jan 15, 2009 12:06:38 GMT -5
Devo never hits anyone but girls.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,669
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Post by seaweed on Jan 15, 2009 12:16:51 GMT -5
Clearly DS heard the interview with Pops and I am glad he did.
As for the foul by KO, he barely left the ground and to me that says it all. If a 6'9" player is on a break away and you don't get near the rim then you are not playing defense. Everyone knows the play is going to happen within an inch of the rim and if you don't leave the ground then you are not iinvolved in the play - you are intentionally trying to stop the play by fouling, hence the term Intentional Foul.
cuseinVT - you make it sound like I came into a nunnery with my smack talk. Your admin is not only less conservative, they also embrace a personal tort called defamation, but I will deal with Mr. Lynn separately. You should really just go rewatch this game a few times and see if you can learn something about class from watching the Fruit getting outclassed in every sense of the word.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 15, 2009 12:17:55 GMT -5
That was definitely a flagrant foul the ball was in the hoop before dajuan got hit. He had 0% chance to play the ball and he knew it. watching the video I can see how it might not look like a flagrant foul but it was very dangerous contact that could have really injured summers. He was way late on the bloack attempt so he just hit dajuan in the shoulder/body. If he had gotten the arm maybe you don't call it but it was essentially a late hit in football Play was over then he gets hit. I don't think it was intentionally dirty but it was a dirty result. My point is that if the foul is not intentionally dirty, and it is not reckless, then it should just be a normal foul. Very few people seem to believe that the foul at issue was intentionally dirty or an attempt to injure Dajaun. So, does being a split second late on a block attempt make the play reckless? In my opinion, the answer is a resounding "no, not even close." The key point is that the defender always has the right to contest the shot. While the chances of success may be low, they are never zero. The very fact that the defender is oncoming and contesting the shot may make the offensive player fumble the ball, go up too hard and miss the dunk, or make another mistake. Hence, that type of effort should be encouraged. I will also add that if that a certain foul might lead to a fight on the playground- so what? That is part of playground basketball. In terms of organized college basketball, it is the job of the refs to get in there and control things. The comparison is meaningless. I've said my piece here. I just wanted to bring this up b/c I feel it is something where the officials have degraded the game at the expense of a giving a pretextual nod toward safety, when in fact it makes no one safer and often punishes players who hustle and do not concede baskets- which is the way the game is supposed to be played.
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