jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
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Post by jgalt on Jan 15, 2009 0:21:59 GMT -5
i liked seeing the emotion from coach and dajuan. sometimes a tech (like a fight in hockey) can spark a team and get them moving. JTIII's tech was justified, the refs were being pretty wishy washy on the calls to start the second half, after the tech they got a lot better.
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Hoyaholic
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 748
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Post by Hoyaholic on Jan 15, 2009 3:26:11 GMT -5
Thought it was a lame T on Summers, but also a borderline intentional call on Ongenot to begin with. Watching on TV, you could see from the second Summers stole it that he was going to end up on the floor (actually at first I thought it was Rautins chasing him and as such I figured he'd let it go due to the knee). I didn't think it was a malicious foul by any stretch.
Either way, SICK dunk. I was pretty down on DaJuan earlier this year, but he has found a gear I didn't think he had.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,011
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Post by dense on Jan 15, 2009 3:47:28 GMT -5
i beg to differ, that was a dirty play which he had 0 chance to block that shot and a better chance to hurt DaJuan. As a player there are just some positions you gotta realize that you cant do anything about defensively and he ended up not getting any ball and hitting DaJuan in the head. Just reckless play. Malicious probably not, but reckless, which counts as an intentional in the college rules, in the NBA that would be a flagrant. But college has no such rule.
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rhman
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 196
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Post by rhman on Jan 15, 2009 8:55:28 GMT -5
I am fine with the hard, intentional foul and the response by Dajuan. This is Georgetown v Syracuse... what I loved was Dajuan's "Who Me?" look after he got the T. That was perfect!!!
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Post by fburghoya on Jan 15, 2009 8:59:51 GMT -5
I had to watch that dunk about 10 times over on TiVo. After that glare from Harris, I knew DaJuan would get 'Cuse back and he did BIG TIME. Loved the emotion from DaJuan and JTIII. Especially DaJuan as a leader on the floor. Showed emotion that Pat showed last year and '07. Also liked that DaJuan was fired up by the rivalry and played great as usual. GO DAJUAN! ONE MORE YEAR!
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 15, 2009 9:00:24 GMT -5
The dunk was incredible, but what really impressed me is the emergence of Dajuan midrange game...he never had that dribble pull up 15 footer from the wings last year. He looks smooth and under control this year. Oh, and I'm completely ok with both techs tonight...nice to see some emotion, esp. after a bush league intentional foul. I HATE to stand up for SUcks in any way, but that was not an intentional foul. The SU player did make a play on the ball. The defensive player always has the right to attempt a block, even it is has about 0.01% chance of success. Watch the replay- he didn't push or bump Dajaun, but made an effort to get to the ball. Again, I hate to stand up for SU, but intentional fouls are something I think is a problem in basketball. They are appropriate when there is no play on the ball, and when a player attempts to hurt an opponent, he should receive a technical and be ejected immediately. Hard fouls on fast breaks, however, are part of the game as long as the defender doesn't push and tries to get at the ball. I will say, however, that it was a cheap T on Dajaun. He did get fouled hard and he has every right to express emotion. It is the ref's job to get in there quickly and break things up.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 15, 2009 9:03:17 GMT -5
i beg to differ, that was a dirty play which he had 0 chance to block that shot and a better chance to hurt DaJuan. As a player there are just some positions you gotta realize that you cant do anything about defensively and he ended up not getting any ball and hitting DaJuan in the head. Just reckless play. Malicious probably not, but reckless, which counts as an intentional in the college rules, in the NBA that would be a flagrant. But college has no such rule. Disagree. The defensive player ALWAYS has to have the right to go for the ball. As a defender, you don't have time to weigh the chances of getting the ball versus the chances of a hard foul. You simply try your best to block the shot, without pushing, undercutting, or anything else, and whatever happens as a result is just part of the game. I would feel the same way if that play had led to a season-ending injury for Dajaun. A play on the ball is always valid, and should not be measured by the result.
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saxamaphone
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Yes III Can.
Posts: 259
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Post by saxamaphone on Jan 15, 2009 9:28:42 GMT -5
Actually, I don't think they called it intentional, they called it flagrant. From the NCAA rulebook: I think it says somewhere else that Intentional Fouls can be whistled as flagrants, meaning same gesture from the refs both ways.
Like many have said above, I don't really have a problem with this play. It wasn't a cheap foul, but it was hard - you can see Onganet's elbow in DaJuan's face if you watch it frame-by-frame - and it was the right call. And the T was well-deserved. You can't scream in someone's face. It was also fantastic. Love that fire from the team.
The bigger question is if this incident supplants PEJr's "AAAAAANNNND OOOONE!" bellow from the Tennessee game two years ago.
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Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,578
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Post by Gold Hoya on Jan 15, 2009 10:04:28 GMT -5
Anyone found a good photo (not video) of the Summers dunk? I have some Cuse co-workers who could use a review.
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Post by hoyalawyer on Jan 15, 2009 10:05:50 GMT -5
the dunk was priceless. The yelling in the losers face was priceless. The "Who me" reacition was priceless. That entire exchange can be summed up with "priceless"
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 15, 2009 10:09:38 GMT -5
Actually, I don't think they called it intentional, they called it flagrant. From the NCAA rulebook: I think it says somewhere else that Intentional Fouls can be whistled as flagrants, meaning same gesture from the refs both ways. Like many have said above, I don't really have a problem with this play. It wasn't a cheap foul, but it was hard - you can see Onganet's elbow in DaJuan's face if you watch it frame-by-frame - and it was the right call. And the T was well-deserved. You can't scream in someone's face. It was also fantastic. Love that fire from the team. The bigger question is if this incident supplants PEJr's "AAAAAANNNND OOOONE!" bellow from the Tennessee game two years ago. And I would respond that the contact at issue did not seem severe or extreme to me. It was a typical foul on a fast break. When you have two bigs, strong players colliding, that type of contact is typical- not severe or extreme.
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
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Post by kchoya on Jan 15, 2009 10:19:19 GMT -5
Actually, I don't think they called it intentional, they called it flagrant. From the NCAA rulebook: I think it says somewhere else that Intentional Fouls can be whistled as flagrants, meaning same gesture from the refs both ways. Like many have said above, I don't really have a problem with this play. It wasn't a cheap foul, but it was hard - you can see Onganet's elbow in DaJuan's face if you watch it frame-by-frame - and it was the right call. And the T was well-deserved. You can't scream in someone's face. It was also fantastic. Love that fire from the team. The bigger question is if this incident supplants PEJr's "AAAAAANNNND OOOONE!" bellow from the Tennessee game two years ago. And I would respond that the contact at issue did not seem severe or extreme to me. It was a typical foul on a fast break. When you have two bigs, strong players colliding, that type of contact is typical- not severe or extreme. You're so wrong. Of course he can go for the block. But if he decides to go for the block by swinging your entire arm against the offensive player at the level of his head, that's not "typical."
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CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
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Post by CAHoya07 on Jan 15, 2009 10:22:20 GMT -5
He probably deserved the T, and I'm glad he got it. Summers is playing with a ton more emotion and aggression this season. As long as these outbursts don't end up hurting the team, I say keep it up. Good to see Freeman playing mediator though.
Was it really an intentional? I don't know, I think there are compelling arguments on both sides. I always thought in college a hard foul is fine, but you have to go for the ball. After first watching the replay, I thought Ongenot just hacked across the body and did not go for the ball, but I could be wrong. These things are always subject to interpretation.
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saxamaphone
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Yes III Can.
Posts: 259
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Post by saxamaphone on Jan 15, 2009 10:23:26 GMT -5
Actually, I don't think they called it intentional, they called it flagrant. From the NCAA rulebook: I think it says somewhere else that Intentional Fouls can be whistled as flagrants, meaning same gesture from the refs both ways. Like many have said above, I don't really have a problem with this play. It wasn't a cheap foul, but it was hard - you can see Onganet's elbow in DaJuan's face if you watch it frame-by-frame - and it was the right call. And the T was well-deserved. You can't scream in someone's face. It was also fantastic. Love that fire from the team. The bigger question is if this incident supplants PEJr's "AAAAAANNNND OOOONE!" bellow from the Tennessee game two years ago. And I would respond that the contact at issue did not seem severe or extreme to me. It was a typical foul on a fast break. When you have two bigs, strong players colliding, that type of contact is typical- not severe or extreme. Had it been body contact, sure, but you can't follow through with your arm like that. He put an elbow in DaJuan's face/neck and then brought his arm down. It wasn't dirty, but it's the kind of play that can get someone really hurt.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Jan 15, 2009 10:26:12 GMT -5
I am trying to look at this without my Hoya bias, and I still can't remotely agree that that foul was not intentional (or flagrant, or whatever you want to call it). Sure, physical play is expected in a game like this, but I just watched the replay a few more times -- as someone said here, the dude had zero chance of blocking that dunk (not even a .01% chance). He basically took out Summers' arm after the ball was already through the hoop.
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Post by roy's spin move on Jan 15, 2009 10:28:25 GMT -5
Boz above said he thought he saw DaJuan blew a kiss to the 'Cuse bench -- it was clear as day on the ESPN broadcast. Summers was fouled, got T-d up, and walked over to the bench to talk to JTIII.
DaJuan walked past Coach, Coach told him to calm down, and then DaJuan headed back out to the floor to shoot his foul shots. As he walked back, he clearly looked toward Boeheim and/or the Syracuse bench and blew them a little kiss.
I love DaJuan Summers -- all the aggression that I sometimes think is over the top is just perfect for such a rivalry game.
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Post by cusefaninvt on Jan 15, 2009 10:34:19 GMT -5
the dunk was priceless. The yelling in the losers face was priceless. The "Who me" reacition was priceless. That entire exchange can be summed up with "priceless" I'm sorry, who was it that was saying Cuse fans and players are classless? I think this post speaks for itself, but then again, it is a lawyer talking here - nuff said.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 15, 2009 10:36:21 GMT -5
go back to your lair you troll....your team is a bunch of thugs and deserved the beatdown they got last night...you have some balls to show up here talking smack after the beatdown you got last night
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Post by cusefaninvt on Jan 15, 2009 10:36:49 GMT -5
The dunk was incredible, but what really impressed me is the emergence of Dajuan midrange game...he never had that dribble pull up 15 footer from the wings last year. He looks smooth and under control this year. Oh, and I'm completely ok with both techs tonight...nice to see some emotion, esp. after a bush league intentional foul. I HATE to stand up for SUcks in any way, but that was not an intentional foul. The SU player did make a play on the ball. The defensive player always has the right to attempt a block, even it is has about 0.01% chance of success. Watch the replay- he didn't push or bump Dajaun, but made an effort to get to the ball. Again, I hate to stand up for SU, but intentional fouls are something I think is a problem in basketball. They are appropriate when there is no play on the ball, and when a player attempts to hurt an opponent, he should receive a technical and be ejected immediately. Hard fouls on fast breaks, however, are part of the game as long as the defender doesn't push and tries to get at the ball. I will say, however, that it was a cheap T on Dajaun. He did get fouled hard and he has every right to express emotion. It is the ref's job to get in there quickly and break things up. I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts here. I thought it was a good hard foul, but it wasn't cheap or dirty. When you foul someone you should do whatever you can to make sure he doesn't make the shot. Especially a dunk at home. He missed and ended up grabbing much more arm, but he WAS going for the ball. And I would have said the same thing if it was Summers taking out Harris in the Dome in a completely identical play. I also didn't think it should have been a T. The players were separated and the situation was diffusing. The ref let HIS emotion get to him.
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Post by cusefaninvt on Jan 15, 2009 10:38:20 GMT -5
go back to your lair you troll....your team is a bunch of thugs and deserved the beatdown they got last night...you have some balls to show up here talking smack after the beatdown you got last night What smack am I talking? I simply asked a fair and reasonable question.
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