BeantownHoya
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jun 24, 2024 9:44:15 GMT -5
Here is how I typically end a debate like this w/my buddies. Your statement was you can't blame him (Styles) for going to NC State and a shot at a title. What title? If you really hold belief in that statement...friendly gentlemans bet of a measley $100...I will pay if NC State wins either the ACC Title or goes to the elite 8 this year which is very generous considering you think they have a chance to win it all... if they don't do either you pay the $100. LOL! And you take your buddies for suckers? How can that bet be 1-to-1? There are 350+ college basketball teams annually fighting for the national title with their respective odds, and next season there will be 18 ACC teams looking to win their championship. You made me look: FanDuel has Duke at 11-to-1 odds and favorite to win the 2024-25 men's national title. www.fanduel.com/research/ncaa-tournament-betting-duke-is-early-favorite-for-2025-title#:~:text=In%20all%2C%20FanDuel%20Sportsbook%20is,2024%2D25%20men's%20national%20title. VegasInsider will wait to the fall to publish the Atlantic Coast Conference championship odds. www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/acc-tournament-picks-predictions-odds/Those are better odds than yours! I’m taking those odds and putting the $100. It will be young talent vs. balance/experience for Duke yet again! Then, I’ll wait until the fall for VegasInsider’s odds. Thanks, beantown. In the meantime, Etomic can answer my question on how to retain a rising senior like Styles under those circumstances I described in my post above. Wow! I appreciate you putting in all that time just to prove my point even more and illustrate the absurdity of your comment. Although I think most on here already know there is 350+ teams and who plays in the ACC. YOU said Styles was going to NC State to win a Title. YOU said that not me. YOU then just showcased the odds against that actually coming to fruition and how laughable of a proposition that is. Look if you had said... ... he's going to NC State because they are set up for better success during the regular season. ... he's going to NC State because they are set up for better success during their conference schedule/tournament. .. he's going to NC State because they are set up for better success during March. I wouldn't have said a thing, I drew the line at NC State is an ACC or National Title contender. Again which YOU said was one of the very specific reasons he chose that program. You seemed to leave out that on FanDuel presently they are around the 50th best odds to win a National Championship which YOU seemed to think they have a chance to win and/or an ACC title. My point about the $100 is put your money where your mouth is which kudos to you sounds like you will and I will certainly keep an eye on. I will even root for you but will caution if this roster seems like a title contender to you, we certainly don't see eye to eye on that... www.fayobserver.com/story/sports/college/acc/2024/05/02/nc-state-basketball-2024-roster-wolfpack-kevin-keatts-jayden-taylor-michael-o-connell/73495872007/ |
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 24, 2024 10:14:10 GMT -5
I would have 100% agreed with this until I learned of the rumored reasons why he wasn’t wanted back. Obviously those rumors did not find their way to this board so I won’t get into it any further because HR doesn’t want any of its members sharing info on HT. But if the reason for all of this is what two or three people claimed over there, then letting Rowan go may have actually been the best call. I will point out again as I have before, he didn’t do anything illegal or criminal. But that type of unnecessary disruption, one that I am dealing with right now with a close family member, may not be a headache worth enduring. So rumors spread by 2 or 3 members of another pay site are enough to come over here and besmirch a 20-year old's character on a much more public message board? Well-done, MCI, stay classy. Anything to protect the Almighty Ed Cooley. Speaking of staying classy Boya....these rumors were independently verified and confirmed, but it is not included in MCI's summary narrative. The bottom line is that the program thought it was better off without Rowan on the team. That is a decision that a program's leader makes, and I am fine with it. Rowan wasn't muscled out. He faced the consequences of his own actions. |
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bluechi
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Post by bluechi on Jun 24, 2024 10:24:37 GMT -5
Expecting any staff to bat 1.000 is just unreasonable. The problem that often goes overlooked on here is that Cooley assembled an awful transfer class last year. He part scouted bad and part handled some to the point they didn't want to stay. There will be people that give him excuses but they are just that excuses. If you look at that class and this class and there are a lot of similarities on philosophy. In my mind he went 0 for 5 last year but that is just because I think Epps is a net negative. For the sake of argument we can say he went 1/5 and that is not including Grant because I am not sure he was on scholarship. I said before last season started all we had to do was not be awful last season and this offseason should be alright. We ended up being awful. That is not to say this transfer class is going to be bad. I don't put a ton of weight on transfer rankings. I do know it shows that players with good options for the most part aren't comfortable coming here and that's a problem. God forbid we throw up another bottom 3 Big East season this year. let's be transparent and let everyone know that Cooley approached it this way on purpose esp after he didn't get Dickinson |
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jun 24, 2024 10:41:21 GMT -5
The problem that often goes overlooked on here is that Cooley assembled an awful transfer class last year. He part scouted bad and part handled some to the point they didn't want to stay. There will be people that give him excuses but they are just that excuses. If you look at that class and this class and there are a lot of similarities on philosophy. In my mind he went 0 for 5 last year but that is just because I think Epps is a net negative. For the sake of argument we can say he went 1/5 and that is not including Grant because I am not sure he was on scholarship. I said before last season started all we had to do was not be awful last season and this offseason should be alright. We ended up being awful. That is not to say this transfer class is going to be bad. I don't put a ton of weight on transfer rankings. I do know it shows that players with good options for the most part aren't comfortable coming here and that's a problem. God forbid we throw up another bottom 3 Big East season this year. let's be transparent and let everyone know that Cooley approached it this way on purpose esp after he didn't get Dickinson I want to get this straight before responding. You’re saying after losing out on Dickinson Cooley brought in guys he knew would be terrible and gone after one year on purpose? |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 24, 2024 10:45:32 GMT -5
The simple answer is to give the player what they're asking for or exceed whatever offers they're getting. These are the issues that arise when "rumors" of a top 5 NIL are leaked for weeks prior to portal season.
I understand your point about winning games being the best way to retain players but you also have to acknowledge the players who left after the season aren't heading to "winning" programs(besides title contending NC State LOL) so that reasoning doesn't hold water in Gtown's case. Cooley has a setting and managing expectations problem. He needs PR help but it's obvious that we don't have anybody at McDonough/Thompson Center with capabilities to help him. BINGO!! Cooley is finding out quickly how much a good administration is needed |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 24, 2024 11:02:56 GMT -5
Wow! I appreciate you putting in all that time just to prove my point even more and illustrate the absurdity of your comment. Although I think most on here already know there is 350+ teams and who plays in the ACC. Prove your point how? The one who is choosing to ignore that NCST was nowhere to be found in the pre-season 2023-24 Top 25(+5) polls, that then won the ACC Championship and was two games away from winning the NCAAT title, and now thinks it's impossible or laughable that it can happen again, is YOU. That's the absurd comment. YOU said Styles was going to NC State to win a Title. YOU said that not me. YOU then just showcased the odds against that actually coming to fruition and how laughable of a proposition that is. I said, and I quote, "I cannot blame Styles for wanting to play for a NCAAT with a shot at a title in his last season of college basketball." It's a tough proposition and that's why there are odds. But, a shot at a title is more realistic with NCST than with bottom-dwelling GU. How can he be blamed for wanting to play for a winner in his last year of eligibility? I wouldn't have said a thing, I drew the line at NC State is an ACC or National Title contender. Again which YOU said was one of the very specific reasons he chose that program. There's more. I said, and I quote, "Secondly, what is known is that he’s a senior leaving a bottom-dwelling team and going to play close to home for a Final Four team with a healthy NIL$ budget. His new coach has proven he can build a winner under the current rules. His chosen philosophy is using older players from the transfer portal. Dontrez fits his philosophy. In fact, under the current rules, Keatts is the complete opposite of Cooley, who in two years at GU has an average of two upperclassmen per year and relies in underclassmen. Remember, Styles entered the portal on April 15 and signed with NCST on April 18. Various GU players had entered the portal too. Basically, a month after the season, Cooley was still spinning wheels and missing on signing top players with an alleged Top 5 NIL$. It looked like another incomplete roster for 2024-25 destined to the bottom of the BE. Finally, I cannot blame Styles for wanting to play for a NCAAT with a shot at a title in his last season of college basketball." You seemed to leave out that on FanDuel presently they are around the 50th best odds to win a National Championship which YOU seemed to think they have a chance to win and/or an ACC title. So what? I'm not going to look, but I bet it was similar or longer odds last year, and NCST won the ACC and went to the FF. My point about the $100 is put your money where your mouth is which kudos to you sounds like you will and I will certainly keep an eye on. I will even root for you but will caution if this roster seems like a title contender to you, we certainly don't see eye to eye on that... I want the focus to be on how to build a winning roster which plays for the BE title and reaches the Final Four, within a shot of the national title. Last year, I didn't watch NCST all year until the ACC Championship. That's when I found out the make-up of its championship team (IIRC, it was a rotation of 7 upperclassmen transfers + a frosh). Actually, the Final Four was very interesting because the make-up of the 4 teams was so different. So, yeah, I'll be watching to see if NCST's championship-winning model works again, and if it can work to take GU out of the bottom of the BE. Finally, I could care less about NCST (well, not now); it's all about how GU can win under the current rules. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 24, 2024 11:32:44 GMT -5
I would have 100% agreed with this until I learned of the rumored reasons why he wasn’t wanted back. Obviously those rumors did not find their way to this board so I won’t get into it any further because HR doesn’t want any of its members sharing info on HT. But if the reason for all of this is what two or three people claimed over there, then letting Rowan go may have actually been the best call. I will point out again as I have before, he didn’t do anything illegal or criminal. But that type of unnecessary disruption, one that I am dealing with right now with a close family member, may not be a headache worth enduring. So rumors spread by 2 or 3 members of another pay site are enough to come over here and besmirch a 20-year old's character on a much more public message board? Well-done, MCI, stay classy. Anything to protect the Almighty Ed Cooley. How moronic. I made it clear that this young man did not do anything unethical or illegal and pointed out that in the end, if rumors were true, that it was possibly better for Cooley to push him along. It’s not as if I created a new thread with Rowan’s name in order to bring a lot of attention to the situation. In the meantime here you are giving thumbs up to folks who are blindly suggesting that Cooley is stupid by chasing off players for reasons that must be inexcusable. And there are even more posts by people making conclusions in regards to dudes trying to jack up their value far more than they are worth even though there is no certainty if this is actually true. Are you objecting to any of that? No. So sit down and find another thread to poison with your unending negativity. |
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Post by HometownHoya on Jun 24, 2024 12:04:30 GMT -5
Late on the styles discussion but I’m fairly certain I saw a quote that he actually wanted to go to NC St last year but knew the backlash of going from UNC to NC St would be too high so he had to go elsewhere for a year.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 24, 2024 12:38:53 GMT -5
Late on the styles discussion but I’m fairly certain I saw a quote that he actually wanted to go to NC St last year but knew the backlash of going from UNC to NC St would be too high so he had to go elsewhere for a year.
"It was me feeling more comfortable with making that decision," Styles said. "That was really it. We all know the UNC to NC State thing. We aren't going to act like we don't know about that. I just honestly felt more comfortable this time around. That was the biggest thing. It felt a little different than making the switch straight from UNC to NC State."247sports.com/article/dontrez-styles-addresses-transfer-to-nc-state-after-starting-career-at-unc-230783379/ |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 24, 2024 18:38:16 GMT -5
Late on the styles discussion but I’m fairly certain I saw a quote that he actually wanted to go to NC St last year but knew the backlash of going from UNC to NC St would be too high so he had to go elsewhere for a year.
"It was me feeling more comfortable with making that decision," Styles said. "That was really it. We all know the UNC to NC State thing. We aren't going to act like we don't know about that. I just honestly felt more comfortable this time around. That was the biggest thing. It felt a little different than making the switch straight from UNC to NC State."247sports.com/article/dontrez-styles-addresses-transfer-to-nc-state-after-starting-career-at-unc-230783379/I hope this puts the Styles discussion to rest once and for all. It seems very obvious that he wanted to go home and play for NC State, and our matching his NIL offer would have made no difference. That is absolutely his prerogative, and it definitely doesn't sound as though he was just chasing the biggest bag. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 24, 2024 19:17:52 GMT -5
"It'd be tough for anybody," Styles said of his decision to transfer to NC State after starting his career at UNC. "I wasn't ready mentally to deal with all of that last offseason. I wasn't mature enough to make that move. But now I feel like I am, and here we are."
"It was me feeling more comfortable with making that decision," Styles said. "That was really it. We all know the UNC to NC State thing. We aren't going to act like we don't know about that. I just honestly felt more comfortable this time around. That was the biggest thing. It felt a little different than making the switch straight from UNC to NC State."247sports.com/article/dontrez-styles-addresses-transfer-to-nc-state-after-starting-career-at-unc-230783379/ I hope this puts the Styles discussion to rest once and for all. It seems very obvious that he wanted to go home and play for NC State, and our matching his NIL offer would have made no difference. That is absolutely his prerogative, and it definitely doesn't sound as though he was just chasing the biggest bag. I don't think the answer he gave to the question "why didn't you choose NC State last year?" puts the possibility of him wanting to stay with the Hoyas to rest. Chances are high that he would have given the same answer if his new school was Wake Forest or Duke or any ACC team besides BC.. This is what Styles also said in the article. Styles said he's looking forward to playing UNC at least twice next season, and the experience will be less awkward since a majority of his former Tar Heel teammates are no longer with the program. |
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 24, 2024 19:52:36 GMT -5
If he was set on leaving, why would he ask the Hoyas to increase their NIL offer. I am in the camp that the Hoyas could have had him if we wanted him.
Styles wouldn't be the first person to revise their narrative to make more sense given a specific outcome.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 24, 2024 20:56:49 GMT -5
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 24, 2024 21:25:45 GMT -5
This lines up with what I have been informed of. If true, very dumb in my opinion. We need stability and if a kid was willing to serve as a back-up, we are painfully thin at PG. After Mack we have no true PG this year. Epps filled in last year. Maybe they think somebody else can swing it but I don't see it. To move a freshman with three years of potential growth is just silly. This is absolutely terrible. A college student should not be effectively kicked out of school because he’s not good enough at a sport. If he wants to stay and understands he might not play as much as he likes, the school owes it to him to keep him. I hate this. I hated when Ewing did it and I hate it now. |
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 24, 2024 22:54:01 GMT -5
If true, very dumb in my opinion. We need stability and if a kid was willing to serve as a back-up, we are painfully thin at PG. After Mack we have no true PG this year. Epps filled in last year. Maybe they think somebody else can swing it but I don't see it. To move a freshman with three years of potential growth is just silly. This is absolutely terrible. A college student should not be effectively kicked out of school because he’s not good enough at a sport. If he wants to stay and understands he might not play as much as he likes, the school owes it to him to keep him. I hate this. I hated when Ewing did it and I hate it now. Unofficial reports are that this was not the reason Rowan is not returning. |
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jun 24, 2024 23:12:38 GMT -5
If he was set on leaving, why would he ask the Hoyas to increase their NIL offer. I am in the camp that the Hoyas could have had him if we wanted him. Styles wouldn't be the first person to revise their narrative to make more sense given a specific outcome. He also likely doesn't wait for his replacement to come in before choosing to go where he always wanted. |
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BeantownHoya
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jun 25, 2024 8:26:57 GMT -5
Wow! I appreciate you putting in all that time just to prove my point even more and illustrate the absurdity of your comment. Although I think most on here already know there is 350+ teams and who plays in the ACC. Prove your point how? The one who is choosing to ignore that NCST was nowhere to be found in the pre-season 2023-24 Top 25(+5) polls, that then won the ACC Championship and was two games away from winning the NCAAT title, and now thinks it's impossible or laughable that it can happen again, is YOU. That's the absurd comment. YOU said Styles was going to NC State to win a Title. YOU said that not me. YOU then just showcased the odds against that actually coming to fruition and how laughable of a proposition that is. I said, and I quote, "I cannot blame Styles for wanting to play for a NCAAT with a shot at a title in his last season of college basketball." It's a tough proposition and that's why there are odds. But, a shot at a title is more realistic with NCST than with bottom-dwelling GU. How can he be blamed for wanting to play for a winner in his last year of eligibility? I wouldn't have said a thing, I drew the line at NC State is an ACC or National Title contender. Again which YOU said was one of the very specific reasons he chose that program. There's more. I said, and I quote, "Secondly, what is known is that he’s a senior leaving a bottom-dwelling team and going to play close to home for a Final Four team with a healthy NIL$ budget. His new coach has proven he can build a winner under the current rules. His chosen philosophy is using older players from the transfer portal. Dontrez fits his philosophy. In fact, under the current rules, Keatts is the complete opposite of Cooley, who in two years at GU has an average of two upperclassmen per year and relies in underclassmen. Remember, Styles entered the portal on April 15 and signed with NCST on April 18. Various GU players had entered the portal too. Basically, a month after the season, Cooley was still spinning wheels and missing on signing top players with an alleged Top 5 NIL$. It looked like another incomplete roster for 2024-25 destined to the bottom of the BE. Finally, I cannot blame Styles for wanting to play for a NCAAT with a shot at a title in his last season of college basketball." You seemed to leave out that on FanDuel presently they are around the 50th best odds to win a National Championship which YOU seemed to think they have a chance to win and/or an ACC title. So what? I'm not going to look, but I bet it was similar or longer odds last year, and NCST won the ACC and went to the FF. My point about the $100 is put your money where your mouth is which kudos to you sounds like you will and I will certainly keep an eye on. I will even root for you but will caution if this roster seems like a title contender to you, we certainly don't see eye to eye on that... I want the focus to be on how to build a winning roster which plays for the BE title and reaches the Final Four, within a shot of the national title. Last year, I didn't watch NCST all year until the ACC Championship. That's when I found out the make-up of its championship team (IIRC, it was a rotation of 7 upperclassmen transfers + a frosh). Actually, the Final Four was very interesting because the make-up of the 4 teams was so different. So, yeah, I'll be watching to see if NCST's championship-winning model works again, and if it can work to take GU out of the bottom of the BE. Finally, I could care less about NCST (well, not now); it's all about how GU can win under the current rules. Prove your point how? The one who is choosing to ignore that NCST was nowhere to be found in the pre-season 2023-24 Top 25(+5) polls, that then won the ACC Championship and was two games away from winning the NCAAT title, and now thinks it's impossible or laughable that it can happen again, is YOU. That's the absurd comment I can't possibly respond to all of this and we are not going to agree but the above I will not let go... You don't realize how much an anomaly NC State's season and run was? It was literally historically/statistically one of the more miraculous runs in ACC/NCAA tournament history. They were not only not a Top 25 team they were not even a bubble team. They lost 10 of their last 14 regular season games. They had a losing record in the ACC. They won 5 games in 5 days in the ACC tournament as an underdog in all but 1 game beating the #1, #2 and #3 ACC seeds to a title. They then won against multiple higher seeds in the NCAA with the exception of one game losing in the Final Four to a 1 seed. So YES I am going to go out on a ledge and say that is not a formula for success and that will never happen again in NCAA history. If it does happen again please by all means throw it in my face...I will be waiting. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 25, 2024 8:46:17 GMT -5
Prove your point how? The one who is choosing to ignore that NCST was nowhere to be found in the pre-season 2023-24 Top 25(+5) polls, that then won the ACC Championship and was two games away from winning the NCAAT title, and now thinks it's impossible or laughable that it can happen again, is YOU. That's the absurd comment. I said, and I quote, "I cannot blame Styles for wanting to play for a NCAAT with a shot at a title in his last season of college basketball." It's a tough proposition and that's why there are odds. But, a shot at a title is more realistic with NCST than with bottom-dwelling GU. How can he be blamed for wanting to play for a winner in his last year of eligibility? There's more. I said, and I quote, "Secondly, what is known is that he’s a senior leaving a bottom-dwelling team and going to play close to home for a Final Four team with a healthy NIL$ budget. His new coach has proven he can build a winner under the current rules. His chosen philosophy is using older players from the transfer portal. Dontrez fits his philosophy. In fact, under the current rules, Keatts is the complete opposite of Cooley, who in two years at GU has an average of two upperclassmen per year and relies in underclassmen. Remember, Styles entered the portal on April 15 and signed with NCST on April 18. Various GU players had entered the portal too. Basically, a month after the season, Cooley was still spinning wheels and missing on signing top players with an alleged Top 5 NIL$. It looked like another incomplete roster for 2024-25 destined to the bottom of the BE. Finally, I cannot blame Styles for wanting to play for a NCAAT with a shot at a title in his last season of college basketball." So what? I'm not going to look, but I bet it was similar or longer odds last year, and NCST won the ACC and went to the FF. I want the focus to be on how to build a winning roster which plays for the BE title and reaches the Final Four, within a shot of the national title. Last year, I didn't watch NCST all year until the ACC Championship. That's when I found out the make-up of its championship team (IIRC, it was a rotation of 7 upperclassmen transfers + a frosh). Actually, the Final Four was very interesting because the make-up of the 4 teams was so different. So, yeah, I'll be watching to see if NCST's championship-winning model works again, and if it can work to take GU out of the bottom of the BE. Finally, I could care less about NCST (well, not now); it's all about how GU can win under the current rules. Prove your point how? The one who is choosing to ignore that NCST was nowhere to be found in the pre-season 2023-24 Top 25(+5) polls, that then won the ACC Championship and was two games away from winning the NCAAT title, and now thinks it's impossible or laughable that it can happen again, is YOU. That's the absurd comment I can't possibly respond to all of this and we are not going to agree but the above I will not let go... You don't realize how much an anomaly NC State's season and run was? It was literally historically/statistically one of the more miraculous runs in ACC/NCAA tournament history. They were not only not a Top 25 team they were not even a bubble team. They lost 10 of their last 14 regular season games. They had a losing record in the ACC. They won 5 games in 5 days in the ACC tournament as an underdog in all but 1 game beating the #1, #2 and #3 ACC seeds to a title.They then won against multiple higher seeds in the NCAA with the exception of one game losing in the Final Four to a 1 seed. So YES I am going to go out on a ledge and say that is not a formula for success and that will never happen again in NCAA history. If it does happen again please by all means throw it in my face...I will be waiting. Don't forget this moment of that improbable run.. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jun 25, 2024 9:27:12 GMT -5
This is absolutely terrible. A college student should not be effectively kicked out of school because he’s not good enough at a sport. If he wants to stay and understands he might not play as much as he likes, the school owes it to him to keep him. I hate this. I hated when Ewing did it and I hate it now. Unofficial reports are that this was not the reason Rowan is not returning. To level-set, I have no idea what the rumors are about Rowan. All I will say is that IF staying was not an option for Rowan because of some reason, I trust that in the staff's viewpoint, there was a good justification for it. Otherwise, letting him leave would make no sense. Generally, I am all about taking people at their word. That said, when someone like Styles transfers and makes a statement, of course, the fact that he just left is going to color that statement. To be clear, I am not saying he is lying. I think Styles is likely genuinely be happy to be playing closer to home. And while I think the odds of NC State winning a title are miniscule, they are likely better than Georgetown's odds. But that doesn't mean Styles, under different NIL circumstances, or whatever, may have felt differently. Life is full of tradeoffs. There are pros/cons to every decision. The fact that someone who leaves one place for another focuses on the pros of the new place should not be a surprise to anybody. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Jun 25, 2024 11:13:28 GMT -5
If true, very dumb in my opinion. We need stability and if a kid was willing to serve as a back-up, we are painfully thin at PG. After Mack we have no true PG this year. Epps filled in last year. Maybe they think somebody else can swing it but I don't see it. To move a freshman with three years of potential growth is just silly. This is absolutely terrible. A college student should not be effectively kicked out of school because he’s not good enough at a sport. If he wants to stay and understands he might not play as much as he likes, the school owes it to him to keep him. I hate this. I hated when Ewing did it and I hate it now. I think it was a combination of reasons, not just that he wasn't good enough. But rest assured - if he was great, he'd still be at Georgetown. |
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