prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 23, 2024 7:29:23 GMT -5
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BeantownHoya
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jun 23, 2024 7:35:52 GMT -5
Here is how I typically end a debate like this w/my buddies. Your statement was you can't blame him (Styles) for going to NC State and a shot at a title. What title? If you really hold belief in that statement...friendly gentlemans bet of a measley $100...I will pay if NC State wins either the ACC Title or goes to the elite 8 this year which is very generous considering you think they have a chance to win it all... if they don't do either you pay the $100. |
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jun 23, 2024 9:32:18 GMT -5
Expecting any staff to bat 1.000 is just unreasonable. The problem that often goes overlooked on here is that Cooley assembled an awful transfer class last year. He part scouted bad and part handled some to the point they didn't want to stay. There will be people that give him excuses but they are just that excuses. If you look at that class and this class and there are a lot of similarities on philosophy. In my mind he went 0 for 5 last year but that is just because I think Epps is a net negative. For the sake of argument we can say he went 1/5 and that is not including Grant because I am not sure he was on scholarship. I said before last season started all we had to do was not be awful last season and this offseason should be alright. We ended up being awful. That is not to say this transfer class is going to be bad. I don't put a ton of weight on transfer rankings. I do know it shows that players with good options for the most part aren't comfortable coming here and that's a problem. God forbid we throw up another bottom 3 Big East season this year. |
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jun 23, 2024 9:54:00 GMT -5
There are two things that have missing in the past for posts. These program/player relationships are a two way street. We may have wanted Cook back for 10-15 minutes, but he didn't want us for that role. Based on reading the tea leaves if we gave him a big fat raise and promised him to start and play 30 minutes a game he was happy to return. That wasn't on the table for us. Styles apparently wanted more NIL, but based on Peavy and McKenna, we were fine if he left if he wanted a raise. Cook is not getting anywhere near 30 minutes at Oregon unless there are injuries. Styles got recruited over. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 23, 2024 10:30:49 GMT -5
There are two things that have missing in the past for posts. These program/player relationships are a two way street. We may have wanted Cook back for 10-15 minutes, but he didn't want us for that role. Based on reading the tea leaves if we gave him a big fat raise and promised him to start and play 30 minutes a game he was happy to return. That wasn't on the table for us. Styles apparently wanted more NIL, but based on Peavy and McKenna, we were fine if he left if he wanted a raise. Cook is not getting anywhere near 30 minutes at Oregon unless there are injuries. Styles got recruited over. Literally the post before this you argue that he handled players poorly and they didn't want to come back, and here you are arguing that Styles got recruited over. Who didn't want to come back? Cook obviously did until Cooley started recruiting C from the portal (he didn't enter until the Omoruyi visit), Styles got recruited over when the Hoyas went after Peavy, Rowan wasn't handed the role he wanted and left. Epps, Fielder, and McKenna returned. Cook is getting minutes at Oregon. His competition is a guy who played 5 games last year and hasn't averaged more than 18 minutes a game. The guy he's replacing (N'Faly Dante) averaged 31 minutes and 26 minutes a game the past two years. |
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jun 23, 2024 13:50:21 GMT -5
Cook is not getting anywhere near 30 minutes at Oregon unless there are injuries. Styles got recruited over. Literally the post before this you argue that he handled players poorly and they didn't want to come back, and here you are arguing that Styles got recruited over. Who didn't want to come back? Cook obviously did until Cooley started recruiting C from the portal (he didn't enter until the Omoruyi visit), Styles got recruited over when the Hoyas went after Peavy, Rowan wasn't handed the role he wanted and left. Epps, Fielder, and McKenna returned. Cook is getting minutes at Oregon. His competition is a guy who played 5 games last year and hasn't averaged more than 18 minutes a game. The guy he's replacing (N'Faly Dante) averaged 31 minutes and 26 minutes a game the past two years. I think everyone but Rowan and Bristol wanted to come back unless you want to put Mutombo in there. Rowan was sick of playing with Epps and how Epps had an unlimited leash. The rest of the guys got recruited over and realized they could either get more minutes or at least be on a better team when they finally decided to enter the portal. Cook is going to be a backup barring injury. Brittle started last year until he got hurt. Oregon can also go small for stretches with Kwame assuming he takes the leap that many expect. Yes if Brittle gets hurt again Cook will be in line for a lot of minutes but you could say that at a lot of places. I do expect Cook to get more minutes at Oregon than he would here. I think Supreme played his transfer perfectly. I am not sure there are many other good or potentially really good teams he could've gone to and got significant backup minutes. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Jun 23, 2024 15:13:02 GMT -5
Literally the post before this you argue that he handled players poorly and they didn't want to come back, and here you are arguing that Styles got recruited over. Who didn't want to come back? Cook obviously did until Cooley started recruiting C from the portal (he didn't enter until the Omoruyi visit), Styles got recruited over when the Hoyas went after Peavy, Rowan wasn't handed the role he wanted and left. Epps, Fielder, and McKenna returned. Cook is getting minutes at Oregon. His competition is a guy who played 5 games last year and hasn't averaged more than 18 minutes a game. The guy he's replacing (N'Faly Dante) averaged 31 minutes and 26 minutes a game the past two years. I think everyone but Rowan and Bristol wanted to come back unless you want to put Mutombo in there. Rowan was sick of playing with Epps and how Epps had an unlimited leash. The rest of the guys got recruited over and realized they could either get more minutes or at least be on a better team when they finally decided to enter the portal. Cook is going to be a backup barring injury. Brittle started last year until he got hurt. Oregon can also go small for stretches with Kwame assuming he takes the leap that many expect. Yes if Brittle gets hurt again Cook will be in line for a lot of minutes but you could say that at a lot of places. I do expect Cook to get more minutes at Oregon than he would here. I think Supreme played his transfer perfectly. I am not sure there are many other good or potentially really good teams he could've gone to and got significant backup minutes. I know from a very well-placed source that Rowan wanted to come back. It was not an option for him. |
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bluechi
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Post by bluechi on Jun 23, 2024 15:45:03 GMT -5
I think everyone but Rowan and Bristol wanted to come back unless you want to put Mutombo in there. Rowan was sick of playing with Epps and how Epps had an unlimited leash. The rest of the guys got recruited over and realized they could either get more minutes or at least be on a better team when they finally decided to enter the portal. Cook is going to be a backup barring injury. Brittle started last year until he got hurt. Oregon can also go small for stretches with Kwame assuming he takes the leap that many expect. Yes if Brittle gets hurt again Cook will be in line for a lot of minutes but you could say that at a lot of places. I do expect Cook to get more minutes at Oregon than he would here. I think Supreme played his transfer perfectly. I am not sure there are many other good or potentially really good teams he could've gone to and got significant backup minutes. I know from a very well-placed source that Rowan wanted to come back. It was not an option for him. there was one instance where Rowan yelled at the bench a la doncic during a game so perhaps tension shrug #culture |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 23, 2024 16:25:11 GMT -5
I think everyone but Rowan and Bristol wanted to come back unless you want to put Mutombo in there. Rowan was sick of playing with Epps and how Epps had an unlimited leash. The rest of the guys got recruited over and realized they could either get more minutes or at least be on a better team when they finally decided to enter the portal. Cook is going to be a backup barring injury. Brittle started last year until he got hurt. Oregon can also go small for stretches with Kwame assuming he takes the leap that many expect. Yes if Brittle gets hurt again Cook will be in line for a lot of minutes but you could say that at a lot of places. I do expect Cook to get more minutes at Oregon than he would here. I think Supreme played his transfer perfectly. I am not sure there are many other good or potentially really good teams he could've gone to and got significant backup minutes. I know from a very well-placed source that Rowan wanted to come back. It was not an option for him. This lines up with what I have been informed of. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 24, 2024 0:30:30 GMT -5
Here is how I typically end a debate like this w/my buddies. Your statement was you can't blame him (Styles) for going to NC State and a shot at a title. What title? If you really hold belief in that statement...friendly gentlemans bet of a measley $100...I will pay if NC State wins either the ACC Title or goes to the elite 8 this year which is very generous considering you think they have a chance to win it all... if they don't do either you pay the $100. LOL! And you take your buddies for suckers? How can that bet be 1-to-1? There are 350+ college basketball teams annually fighting for the national title with their respective odds, and next season there will be 18 ACC teams looking to win their championship. You made me look: FanDuel has Duke at 11-to-1 odds and favorite to win the 2024-25 men's national title. www.fanduel.com/research/ncaa-tournament-betting-duke-is-early-favorite-for-2025-title#:~:text=In%20all%2C%20FanDuel%20Sportsbook%20is,2024%2D25%20men's%20national%20title. VegasInsider will wait to the fall to publish the Atlantic Coast Conference championship odds. www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/acc-tournament-picks-predictions-odds/Those are better odds than yours! I’m taking those odds and putting the $100. It will be young talent vs. balance/experience for Duke yet again! Then, I’ll wait until the fall for VegasInsider’s odds. Thanks, beantown. In the meantime, Etomic can answer my question on how to retain a rising senior like Styles under those circumstances I described in my post above. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 24, 2024 6:14:48 GMT -5
Here is how I typically end a debate like this w/my buddies. Your statement was you can't blame him (Styles) for going to NC State and a shot at a title. What title? If you really hold belief in that statement...friendly gentlemans bet of a measley $100...I will pay if NC State wins either the ACC Title or goes to the elite 8 this year which is very generous considering you think they have a chance to win it all... if they don't do either you pay the $100. LOL! And you take your buddies for suckers? How can that bet be 1-to-1? There are 350+ college basketball teams annually fighting for the national title with their respective odds, and next season there will be 18 ACC teams looking to win their championship. You made me look: FanDuel has Duke at 11-to-1 odds and favorite to win the 2024-25 men's national title. www.fanduel.com/research/ncaa-tournament-betting-duke-is-early-favorite-for-2025-title#:~:text=In%20all%2C%20FanDuel%20Sportsbook%20is,2024%2D25%20men's%20national%20title. VegasInsider will wait to the fall to publish the Atlantic Coast Conference championship odds. www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/acc-tournament-picks-predictions-odds/Those are better odds than yours! I’m taking those odds and putting the $100. It will be young talent vs. balance/experience for Duke yet again! Then, I’ll wait until the fall for VegasInsider’s odds. Thanks, beantown. In the meantime, Etomic can answer my question on how to retain a rising senior like Styles under those circumstances I described in my post above.I think it's a waste of time to discuss Styles retention/departure without including the rumors of his asking for more money in the discussion. Let's keep it real, the rumors are that Epps got a raise, we know Mack got a nice bag to come to Gtown, and the same goes for Peavy too, so it's an easy jump to get to money being a factor for Styles as well. For some reason, you don't want this info to factor into the discussion. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 24, 2024 7:46:08 GMT -5
I think it's a waste of time to discuss Styles retention/departure without including the rumors of his asking for more money in the discussion. Let's keep it real, the rumors are that Epps got a raise, we know Mack got a nice bag to come to Gtown, and the same goes for Peavy too, so it's an easy jump to get to money being a factor for Styles as well. For some reason, you don't want this info to factor into the discussion. In general, NIL would factor into any discussion related to player movement. There are exceptions like Texas-to-GU transfer Rowan, who said NIL was not important to him when he transferred here. As you admit, you don’t know and are speculating as to Styles and NIL. I’ll follow the rules here and will not speculate. What do you know about Styles (because it’s public knowledge)? What I wrote in a previous post to you which you seem to ignore. This is the last time in this back&forth that I’ll ask you and if you don’t want to answer I’ll understand: how does a coach retain a rising senior like Styles under those circumstances described in my post above. |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 24, 2024 8:07:04 GMT -5
Kenner starts in a couple of weeks? Right? 😀
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jun 24, 2024 8:10:41 GMT -5
I know from a very well-placed source that Rowan wanted to come back. It was not an option for him. This lines up with what I have been informed of. If true, very dumb in my opinion. We need stability and if a kid was willing to serve as a back-up, we are painfully thin at PG. After Mack we have no true PG this year. Epps filled in last year. Maybe they think somebody else can swing it but I don't see it. To move a freshman with three years of potential growth is just silly. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jun 24, 2024 8:31:38 GMT -5
I think it's a waste of time to discuss Styles retention/departure without including the rumors of his asking for more money in the discussion. Let's keep it real, the rumors are that Epps got a raise, we know Mack got a nice bag to come to Gtown, and the same goes for Peavy too, so it's an easy jump to get to money being a factor for Styles as well. For some reason, you don't want this info to factor into the discussion. In general, NIL would factor into any discussion related to player movement. There are exceptions like Texas-to-GU transfer Rowan, who said NIL was not important to him when he transferred here. As you admit, you don’t know and are speculating as to Styles and NIL. I’ll follow the rules here and will not speculate. What do you know about Styles (because it’s public knowledge)? What I wrote in a previous post to you which you seem to ignore. This is the last time in this back&forth that I’ll ask you and if you don’t want to answer I’ll understand: how does a coach retain a rising senior like Styles under those circumstances described in my post above.The simple answer is to give the player what they're asking for or exceed whatever offers they're getting. These are the issues that arise when "rumors" of a top 5 NIL are leaked for weeks prior to portal season. I understand your point about winning games being the best way to retain players but you also have to acknowledge the players who left after the season aren't heading to "winning" programs(besides title contending NC State LOL) so that reasoning doesn't hold water in Gtown's case. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Jun 24, 2024 9:11:15 GMT -5
This lines up with what I have been informed of. If true, very dumb in my opinion. We need stability and if a kid was willing to serve as a back-up, we are painfully thin at PG. After Mack we have no true PG this year. Epps filled in last year. Maybe they think somebody else can swing it but I don't see it. To move a freshman with three years of potential growth is just silly. Yep, and it's definitely true. Also, it's interesting that the message board pearl-clutchers who were so stricken when Ewing allegedly muscled kids out of the program like this are silent in this instance. I don't like it, but it's the reality of college basketball now. |
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jun 24, 2024 9:14:30 GMT -5
I think everyone but Rowan and Bristol wanted to come back unless you want to put Mutombo in there. Rowan was sick of playing with Epps and how Epps had an unlimited leash. The rest of the guys got recruited over and realized they could either get more minutes or at least be on a better team when they finally decided to enter the portal. Cook is going to be a backup barring injury. Brittle started last year until he got hurt. Oregon can also go small for stretches with Kwame assuming he takes the leap that many expect. Yes if Brittle gets hurt again Cook will be in line for a lot of minutes but you could say that at a lot of places. I do expect Cook to get more minutes at Oregon than he would here. I think Supreme played his transfer perfectly. I am not sure there are many other good or potentially really good teams he could've gone to and got significant backup minutes. I know from a very well-placed source that Rowan wanted to come back. It was not an option for him. I stand corrected then. That is much worse in my opinion. You can’t be kicking guys like Rowan out of the program for a multitude of reasons. I don’t even want to think of why Cooley would make that choice. My only hope is something non basketball related made it happen. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 24, 2024 9:18:37 GMT -5
This lines up with what I have been informed of. If true, very dumb in my opinion. We need stability and if a kid was willing to serve as a back-up, we are painfully thin at PG. After Mack we have no true PG this year. Epps filled in last year. Maybe they think somebody else can swing it but I don't see it. To move a freshman with three years of potential growth is just silly. I would have 100% agreed with this until I learned of the rumored reasons why he wasn’t wanted back. Obviously those rumors did not find their way to this board so I won’t get into it any further because HR doesn’t want any of its members sharing info on HT. But if the reason for all of this is what two or three people claimed over there, then letting Rowan go may have actually been the best call. I will point out again as I have before, he didn’t do anything illegal or criminal. But that type of unnecessary disruption, one that I am dealing with right now with a close family member, may not be a headache worth enduring. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jun 24, 2024 9:32:20 GMT -5
If true, very dumb in my opinion. We need stability and if a kid was willing to serve as a back-up, we are painfully thin at PG. After Mack we have no true PG this year. Epps filled in last year. Maybe they think somebody else can swing it but I don't see it. To move a freshman with three years of potential growth is just silly. I would have 100% agreed with this until I learned of the rumored reasons why he wasn’t wanted back. Obviously those rumors did not find their way to this board so I won’t get into it any further because HR doesn’t want any of its members sharing info on HT. But if the reason for all of this is what two or three people claimed over there, then letting Rowan go may have actually been the best call. I will point out again as I have before, he didn’t do anything illegal or criminal. But that type of unnecessary disruption, one that I am dealing with right now with a close family member, may not be a headache worth enduring. So rumors spread by 2 or 3 members of another pay site are enough to come over here and besmirch a 20-year old's character on a much more public message board? Well-done, MCI, stay classy. Anything to protect the Almighty Ed Cooley. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jun 24, 2024 9:33:18 GMT -5
In general, NIL would factor into any discussion related to player movement. There are exceptions like Texas-to-GU transfer Rowan, who said NIL was not important to him when he transferred here. As you admit, you don’t know and are speculating as to Styles and NIL. I’ll follow the rules here and will not speculate. What do you know about Styles (because it’s public knowledge)? What I wrote in a previous post to you which you seem to ignore. This is the last time in this back&forth that I’ll ask you and if you don’t want to answer I’ll understand: how does a coach retain a rising senior like Styles under those circumstances described in my post above.The simple answer is to give the player what they're asking for or exceed whatever offers they're getting. These are the issues that arise when "rumors" of a top 5 NIL are leaked for weeks prior to portal season.
I understand your point about winning games being the best way to retain players but you also have to acknowledge the players who left after the season aren't heading to "winning" programs(besides title contending NC State LOL) so that reasoning doesn't hold water in Gtown's case. Cooley has a setting and managing expectations problem. He needs PR help but it's obvious that we don't have anybody at McDonough/Thompson Center with capabilities to help him. |
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