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Post by Ranch Dressing on Mar 19, 2024 11:46:41 GMT -5
Neither Fielder nor Cook strikes me as the type who will immediately bounce if we add a rim protector. From the clips I've seen of Sorber, he could be a very capable rebounder and swat machine from the jump. Bringing another skilled defensive big I think can be sold to Fielder and Cook as part of a plan where there are good minutes available for all 4 guys to play the 2 spots. And there are probably some lineups when Cooley can play 3 bigs at once, which would offer a couple extra minutes per game. Something tells me this core will be retained and developed. If not, I think you'd obviously prioritize keeping Fielder and let Cook bounce in favor of 1-2 skilled upgrades.
The guard situation I think is the more fluid situation. If Cooley brings in a new PG to run the show and an upgraded shooter, it's basically a rebuke of the current backcourt and their abilities. I think they are much more likely to bounce in that scenario.
I would very much like to keep Styles, so perhaps he can be convinced that he retains the 3 and he/the team will benefit from the upgrades and added depth brought in around him.
The current state of college basketball is strange. I have not fully accepted or embraced what is going in.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 19, 2024 11:48:17 GMT -5
Agree. Great points. This is one of the reasons I would prioritize a 1 year PG and a 1 year Center. Then you have try to convince RB and the bigs to be patient and to be an important member of a winning team and not the starter on a bad team. Thank you and I agree. In an ideal world we recruit an elite point guard who is going to be here for 1 season. Rowan can back him up--no shame in 15 minutes a game off the bench as a sophomore, especially if the team is winning. Then he can take over the reigns as a junior. Same principle applies with Fielder, I'd love a 1 year rim protector via the portal and let Fielder continue to grow into his position as a backup next year before taking over a starting job as a junior. Unfortunately real life seldom works out quite that cleanly, both in terms of being able to land transfers that are 1 year only AND good enough to lift us from the doldrums AND actually want to come here, and in terms of being able to convince young guys with options like RB and DF to be patient for another year before it's really their turn. So I expect it won't work out quite that neatly. But in an ideal world we'd get some elite transfers who are just going to be here for a year before graduating/going pro and we can convince (possibly through sweeter NIL deals) the young core to wait that out. 100% agree. But it can't happen if you don't try. Even if you only get 1 high impact, one year player, you are in a better situation.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 19, 2024 12:11:27 GMT -5
The conundrum with this core is that the problems (in terms of positions), and thus the solution, are not glaringly obvious. I can talk myself into Brumbaugh, Epps and Mulready being sufficient with another year of development. I can talk myself into Cook, Fielder and Sorber being a solid 4/5 rotation. In both cases we'd probably need at least one more body, but you can see a scenario where the core guys hang around and improve and we just need to augment with depth rather than needing to land a superstar in the portal. Of course we know that can't really be the case (or the strategy) because if we believe in both of those things we're essentially running it back with a 2-18 team and expecting a dramatically different result. Can't do that. So with that in mind, plus our purportedly substantial NIL budget, we start "star hunting" in the portal. But the simple fact is that none of this stuff happens in a vacuum, and whatever position we spend most of our NIL on, there's a very real chance that it drives off one or more of the current guys who feels recruited over. For example if we spend big on a point guard we might lose Brumbaugh, if we land a big fish at PF/C then Fielder and/or Cook may enter the portal. So you have to think not just one but two or three moves ahead and prepare yourself for that. Inevitably there will be some people that lament the roster turning over yet again, but coming off of 2-18 you have 2 choices--either keep the core guys happy and run it back, hoping they miraculously grow into a >.500 team (or accepting it if they once again are not), OR, upgrade the talent and live with the hurt feelings and portal declarations that follow. It's unfortunate but to me the choice is obvious. I think we have no choice but to upgrade as much as we can wherever we can and let the chips fall where they may as it pertains to departures. The biggest issue we had was our woeful defense and especially opponents 2point FG%, which I largely blame on not having anyone who can protect the rim. Getting that player in the fold would be my priority #1. I would then try to upgrade both guard spots. If there's an elite forward out there who wants to play for Cooley, sign him up too. This seems right to me. Some folks around here have been talking out of both sides of their mouth about this team all season - on the one hand, this is a "solid core;" on the other, we simply couldn't compete in the Big East this season because of our lack of talent. "It's the talent" was the mantra for many after every loss. Well, if it's the talent, then why would we bring it all back? Why would we want to? We need *major* upgrades across the board, and the incoming freshmen can not be expected to provide that. Bully for them and us if they do, but it can't be part of the design. We need a couple of impact players to displace a couple of the players who were in the rotation this year. It's an uphill battle. Let's see what Cooley and company can do.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 19, 2024 13:24:21 GMT -5
The conundrum with this core is that the problems (in terms of positions), and thus the solution, are not glaringly obvious. I can talk myself into Brumbaugh, Epps and Mulready being sufficient with another year of development. I can talk myself into Cook, Fielder and Sorber being a solid 4/5 rotation. In both cases we'd probably need at least one more body, but you can see a scenario where the core guys hang around and improve and we just need to augment with depth rather than needing to land a superstar in the portal. Of course we know that can't really be the case (or the strategy) because if we believe in both of those things we're essentially running it back with a 2-18 team and expecting a dramatically different result. Can't do that. So with that in mind, plus our purportedly substantial NIL budget, we start "star hunting" in the portal. But the simple fact is that none of this stuff happens in a vacuum, and whatever position we spend most of our NIL on, there's a very real chance that it drives off one or more of the current guys who feels recruited over. For example if we spend big on a point guard we might lose Brumbaugh, if we land a big fish at PF/C then Fielder and/or Cook may enter the portal. So you have to think not just one but two or three moves ahead and prepare yourself for that. Inevitably there will be some people that lament the roster turning over yet again, but coming off of 2-18 you have 2 choices--either keep the core guys happy and run it back, hoping they miraculously grow into a >.500 team (or accepting it if they once again are not), OR, upgrade the talent and live with the hurt feelings and portal declarations that follow. It's unfortunate but to me the choice is obvious. I think we have no choice but to upgrade as much as we can wherever we can and let the chips fall where they may as it pertains to departures. The biggest issue we had was our woeful defense and especially opponents 2point FG%, which I largely blame on not having anyone who can protect the rim. Getting that player in the fold would be my priority #1. I would then try to upgrade both guard spots. If there's an elite forward out there who wants to play for Cooley, sign him up too. This seems right to me. Some folks around here have been talking out of both sides of their mouth about this team all season - on the one hand, this is a "solid core;" on the other, we simply couldn't compete in the Big East this season because of our lack of talent. "It's the talent" was the mantra for many after every loss. Well, if it's the talent, then why would we bring it all back? Why would we want to? We need *major* upgrades across the board, and the incoming freshmen can not be expected to provide that. Bully for them and us if they do, but it can't be part of the design. We need a couple of impact players to displace a couple of the players who were in the rotation this year. It's an uphill battle. Let's see what Cooley and company can do. I don't believe any core was developed this season but some pieces could be valuable in the seasons to come, it's obvious how high I am on Fielder. Fielder & Sorber could form a frontcourt that will truly drive the program forward and I'm willing to go thru the growing pains to see how big they can become. I get the allure of the portal but I'm not sure chasing wins is a good strategy when you have young talent.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 19, 2024 13:27:33 GMT -5
I think most of us want to bring in a few transfers who are major upgrades, but would prefer to keep as many of our current guys as possible be options 4-7 as opposed to losing them to the portal and backfilling with additional transfers to round out the rotation and bench.
I don't realistically think it will happen that cleanly, but I'd prefer to have our depth guys be people with multiple years in the program than a revolving cast of newcomers.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 19, 2024 13:31:28 GMT -5
Have heard that woo'ing 1 year guys is problematic for staff. Most have a win now mentality. Thus the focus on multi year guys. Which as RB and others point out - could effect Rowan and Drew.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Mar 19, 2024 13:50:18 GMT -5
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Mar 19, 2024 13:51:08 GMT -5
Already 1 transfer and more than last likely 2-3 more. Nobody going to stay here. The school or students or community cares. This is not ever going to be better. No home stadium to play in says a lot. This team under Cooley didn’t even play defense. Inexcusable. Nobody can win here mark it down nobody can win here. It’s just irrelevant and no one give a damn about the basketball program. Just shut it down and forget it. Never change same garbage year after freaking year. Sick of this mess. Don’t know why I’m bothering to respond to this, but . . . We’ve all been expecting Bristol to grad-transfer for weeks now (if not months). He was recognized on Senior Day. As was Ryan Mutombo. So don’t be shocked if he grad-transfers, too. If those two guys leave—with degrees in hand—it is not a sign of another mass exodus. Agree two good young men. Best of luck
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 19, 2024 13:51:45 GMT -5
Have heard that woo'ing 1 year guys is problematic for staff. Most have a win now mentality. Thus the focus on multi year guys. Which as RB and others point out - could effect Rowan and Drew. Why wouldn't we be able to "win now" with a $4M-$5M NIL budget? Can't have it both ways. Why would anybody invest that much in NIL if there's no expectation to "win now"?
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Mar 19, 2024 13:53:45 GMT -5
Thank you and I agree. In an ideal world we recruit an elite point guard who is going to be here for 1 season. Rowan can back him up--no shame in 15 minutes a game off the bench as a sophomore, especially if the team is winning. Then he can take over the reigns as a junior. Same principle applies with Fielder, I'd love a 1 year rim protector via the portal and let Fielder continue to grow into his position as a backup next year before taking over a starting job as a junior. Unfortunately real life seldom works out quite that cleanly, both in terms of being able to land transfers that are 1 year only AND good enough to lift us from the doldrums AND actually want to come here, and in terms of being able to convince young guys with options like RB and DF to be patient for another year before it's really their turn. So I expect it won't work out quite that neatly. But in an ideal world we'd get some elite transfers who are just going to be here for a year before graduating/going pro and we can convince (possibly through sweeter NIL deals) the young core to wait that out. 100% agree. But it can't happen if you don't try. Even if you only get 1 high impact, one year player, you are in a better situation. Agree but let the process play out never know. Just know this year more fun to watch the effort than recent times. We will see. Get some dawgs need MEANARYWAYUP
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 19, 2024 13:54:33 GMT -5
Have heard that woo'ing 1 year guys is problematic for staff. Most have a win now mentality. Thus the focus on multi year guys. Which as RB and others point out - could effect Rowan and Drew. Have we tried overpaying them? 🤷🏻♂️. Tell a guy like AJ Hoggard that we are good for $250k more than his highest offer.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 19, 2024 14:46:48 GMT -5
We're definitely going to have to "overpay." We can only win now by landing some major targets in the portal, and given the current state of the program, we're going to need to overpay someone (or some ones) to be the first mover(s) and demonstrate to others that we can win now. Honestly, with NIL (not even necessarily a budget as high as ours reportedly is, but certainly in that case) it should be easier than in the past to land a guy who otherwise would want to go elsewhere to win now, get more PT, whatever. If we really have the money, let's use it, and use it to get an early commitment from at least one difference maker that will send a signal to others who might be more reluctant.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 19, 2024 16:04:20 GMT -5
This is a case where landing a guy early will help land other guys as there becomes a path to believe the team can “win now”. It takes a leap of faith from the first guy and/or an overpay. But if you can get that first domino, it starts the chain reaction.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 19, 2024 17:03:17 GMT -5
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 19, 2024 18:27:31 GMT -5
Interesting discussion here, but one thing that hasn't been mentioned: Isn't it likely that Cooley has discussed plans for next season with returning members of the team, so hopefully they know what to expect and have bought in, or if they haven't bought in, then we're likely to see names in the portal before too long?
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 19, 2024 18:42:47 GMT -5
Interesting discussion here, but one thing that hasn't been mentioned: Isn't it likely that Cooley has discussed plans for next season with returning members of the team, so hopefully they know what to expect and have bought in, or if they haven't bought in, then we're likely to see names in the portal before too long? Yes and no. Do exit and interviews and discussions happen with existing players? Of course. But some of their future roles are dependent on what happens with the portal. The convo Sunday with Rowan was likely something like - We're looking at bringing in a veteran starting PG to take the load off you and let you develop in the backup spot. With you taking the reigns when you're an upperclassmen. But if then 2 point guards Cooley thinks are better than Rowan come available and want to come - is he going to say no? Then Rowan has to decide, is he willing to be a third stringer with no future guarantees or hit the portal. I have no insight on Rowan imparticular, just a hypothetical. But this type of situation is pretty commonplace. While the portal is mostly advantage player - coaches use it plenty to push guys out by recruiting over them.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 19, 2024 18:49:16 GMT -5
Interesting discussion here, but one thing that hasn't been mentioned: Isn't it likely that Cooley has discussed plans for next season with returning members of the team, so hopefully they know what to expect and have bought in, or if they haven't bought in, then we're likely to see names in the portal before too long? Yes and no. Do exit and interviews and discussions happen with existing players? Of course. But some of their future roles are dependent on what happens with the portal. The convo Sunday with Rowan was likely something like - We're looking at bringing in a veteran starting PG to take the load off you and let you develop in the backup spot. With you taking the reigns when you're an upperclassmen. But if then 2 point guards Cooley thinks are better than Rowan come available and want to come - is he going to say no? Then Rowan has to decide, is he willing to be a third stringer with no future guarantees or hit the portal. I have no insight on Rowan imparticular, just a hypothetical. But this type of situation is pretty commonplace. While the portal is mostly advantage player - coaches use it plenty to push guys out by recruiting over them. Yep, don't dispute that, and there is certainly the possibility that the portal doesn't play out in the manner discussed with the players. In that event, all bets are off. But I do think that, using Rowan as an example, if he didn't buy in to having an experienced point guard as a mentor, then he might have already entered the portal.
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Post by hsaxon on Mar 19, 2024 20:30:20 GMT -5
Neither Fielder nor Cook strikes me as the type who will immediately bounce if we add a rim protector. From the clips I've seen of Sorber, he could be a very capable rebounder and swat machine from the jump. Bringing another skilled defensive big I think can be sold to Fielder and Cook as part of a plan where there are good minutes available for all 4 guys to play the 2 spots. And there are probably some lineups when Cooley can play 3 bigs at once, which would offer a couple extra minutes per game. Something tells me this core will be retained and developed. If not, I think you'd obviously prioritize keeping Fielder and let Cook bounce in favor of 1-2 skilled upgrades. The guard situation I think is the more fluid situation. If Cooley brings in a new PG to run the show and an upgraded shooter, it's basically a rebuke of the current backcourt and their abilities. I think they are much more likely to bounce in that scenario. I would very much like to keep Styles, so perhaps he can be convinced that he retains the 3 and he/the team will benefit from the upgrades and added depth brought in around him. The current state of college basketball is strange. I have not fully accepted or embraced what is going in. The current state sucks.
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Post by hsaxon on Mar 19, 2024 20:31:19 GMT -5
Don’t know why I’m bothering to respond to this, but . . . We’ve all been expecting Bristol to grad-transfer for weeks now (if not months). He was recognized on Senior Day. As was Ryan Mutombo. So don’t be shocked if he grad-transfers, too. If those two guys leave—with degrees in hand—it is not a sign of another mass exodus. If we are being this pessimistic we might as comment that Kazor entered the portal too. I'm not losing sleep yet as the painfully obvious happens. Ryan will be gone.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 19, 2024 21:12:54 GMT -5
Neither Fielder nor Cook strikes me as the type who will immediately bounce if we add a rim protector. From the clips I've seen of Sorber, he could be a very capable rebounder and swat machine from the jump. Bringing another skilled defensive big I think can be sold to Fielder and Cook as part of a plan where there are good minutes available for all 4 guys to play the 2 spots. And there are probably some lineups when Cooley can play 3 bigs at once, which would offer a couple extra minutes per game. Something tells me this core will be retained and developed. If not, I think you'd obviously prioritize keeping Fielder and let Cook bounce in favor of 1-2 skilled upgrades. The guard situation I think is the more fluid situation. If Cooley brings in a new PG to run the show and an upgraded shooter, it's basically a rebuke of the current backcourt and their abilities. I think they are much more likely to bounce in that scenario. I would very much like to keep Styles, so perhaps he can be convinced that he retains the 3 and he/the team will benefit from the upgrades and added depth brought in around him. The current state of college basketball is strange. I have not fully accepted or embraced what is going in. The current state sucks. NIL...for the team managers.
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