CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,959
|
Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 18, 2024 20:21:33 GMT -5
Already 1 transfer and more than last likely 2-3 more. Nobody going to stay here. The school or students or community cares. This is not ever going to be better. No home stadium to play in says a lot. This team under Cooley didn’t even play defense. Inexcusable. Nobody can win here mark it down nobody can win here. It’s just irrelevant and no one give a damn about the basketball program. Just shut it down and forget it. Never change same garbage year after freaking year. Sick of this mess. Don’t know why I’m bothering to respond to this, but . . . We’ve all been expecting Bristol to grad-transfer for weeks now (if not months). He was recognized on Senior Day. As was Ryan Mutombo. So don’t be shocked if he grad-transfers, too. If those two guys leave—with degrees in hand—it is not a sign of another mass exodus. |
|
kbones17
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,187 
|
Post by kbones17 on Mar 18, 2024 21:35:33 GMT -5
Already 1 transfer and more than last likely 2-3 more. Nobody going to stay here. The school or students or community cares. This is not ever going to be better. No home stadium to play in says a lot. This team under Cooley didn’t even play defense. Inexcusable. Nobody can win here mark it down nobody can win here. It’s just irrelevant and no one give a damn about the basketball program. Just shut it down and forget it. Never change same garbage year after freaking year. Sick of this mess. Don’t know why I’m bothering to respond to this, but . . . We’ve all been expecting Bristol to grad-transfer for weeks now (if not months). He was recognized on Senior Day. As was Ryan Mutombo. So don’t be shocked if he grad-transfers, too. If those two guys leave—with degrees in hand—it is not a sign of another mass exodus. I won’t be surprised if we have 2-3 more transfers. It’s just how college basketball is right now. Probably half of eligible players will at least put their name in the portal as a tactic to see what NIL opportunities are out there. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 18, 2024 21:52:26 GMT -5
We cannot retain everybody while at the same time getting tons of people in the portal to massively improve. I do want to keep the guys Cooley recruited last year, but we aren't going to improve without massive upgrades to our talent.
|
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 19, 2024 7:40:47 GMT -5
Already 1 transfer and more than last likely 2-3 more. Nobody going to stay here. The school or students or community cares. This is not ever going to be better. No home stadium to play in says a lot. This team under Cooley didn’t even play defense. Inexcusable. Nobody can win here mark it down nobody can win here. It’s just irrelevant and no one give a damn about the basketball program. Just shut it down and forget it. Never change same garbage year after freaking year. Sick of this mess. Sounds like it is time for you to find yourself a new, relevant team to root for so you are not sick any more. |
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,750
|
Post by hoyaboya on Mar 19, 2024 8:05:20 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 19, 2024 8:43:17 GMT -5
Already 1 transfer and more than last likely 2-3 more. Nobody going to stay here. The school or students or community cares. This is not ever going to be better. No home stadium to play in says a lot. This team under Cooley didn’t even play defense. Inexcusable. Nobody can win here mark it down nobody can win here. It’s just irrelevant and no one give a damn about the basketball program. Just shut it down and forget it. Never change same garbage year after freaking year. Sick of this mess. Don’t know why I’m bothering to respond to this, but . . . We’ve all been expecting Bristol to grad-transfer for weeks now (if not months). He was recognized on Senior Day. As was Ryan Mutombo. So don’t be shocked if he grad-transfers, too. If those two guys leave—with degrees in hand—it is not a sign of another mass exodus. If we are being this pessimistic we might as comment that Kazor entered the portal too. I'm not losing sleep yet as the painfully obvious happens. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 19, 2024 9:02:22 GMT -5
I have only read this excerpt but this totally overlooks that Drew Fielder/Cook are completely insufficient on defense. It also overlooks our getting Sorber, of course. |
|
CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,959
|
Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 19, 2024 9:32:29 GMT -5
I have only read this excerpt but this totally overlooks that Drew Fielder/Cook are completely insufficient on defense. It also overlooks our getting Sorber, of course. I think our ideal lineup at the 4-5 next year is Sorber and proven-defender portal guy starting, with Fielder getting the bulk of bench minutes and Cook being there for spot minutes, in case of injury, etc. Not sure if Cook would want that role, but it might be preferable to stay on for his last year and get the degree versus transferring again, but back down a level. |
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Mar 19, 2024 9:36:11 GMT -5
Do y'all think the trio of Epps, Brumbaugh, and Styles (plus Mulready) is workable to fill the 1-2-3 slots on a competitive ~.500 Big East team?
I think we'd need to add one proven 3-point shooter and one solid perimeter defender (a better version of what Cooley tried with Massoud last year) to give us 6 quality rotation players for those 3 positions.
If the answer to that first question is no, then I would expect transfers from this group and a re-boot (depressing).
With Sorber coming in, I think Cooley will try to keep Cook and Fielder, continue their development and hit the transfer portal hard to find another defensive-minded rim protector.
That would give us a rotation of 10 to figure out starting on Day 1.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,425
|
Post by jwp91 on Mar 19, 2024 9:56:51 GMT -5
No, they are not enough. I agree we need the proven 3 point shooter the solid perimeter defender, but I think we need a starting PG. Hopefully RB can be convinced somehow to take a secondary role on a much better, that is - winning, team.
I think we need a 1 year big to take some of the pressure off of Sorber. Sorber, Fielder, and Cook are not enough at the 4/5.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Mar 19, 2024 10:02:43 GMT -5
No, they are not enough. I agree we need the proven 3 point shooter the solid perimeter defender, but I think we need a starting PG. Hopefully RB can be convinced somehow to take a secondary role on a much better, that is - winning, team. I think we need a 1 year big to take some of the pressure off of Sorber. Sorber, Fielder, and Cook are not enough at the 4/5. Our defense was so epically bad, there is an argument to make that we need a complete makeover at the 1-2-3. |
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,999
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 19, 2024 10:11:22 GMT -5
I'll miss Wayne. And really anyone who played defense. |
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,425
|
Post by jwp91 on Mar 19, 2024 10:17:39 GMT -5
No, they are not enough. I agree we need the proven 3 point shooter the solid perimeter defender, but I think we need a starting PG. Hopefully RB can be convinced somehow to take a secondary role on a much better, that is - winning, team. I think we need a 1 year big to take some of the pressure off of Sorber. Sorber, Fielder, and Cook are not enough at the 4/5. Our defense was so epically bad, there is an argument to make that we need a complete makeover at the 1-2-3. True...but you left out 4-5 which are not better. |
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,425
|
Post by jwp91 on Mar 19, 2024 10:19:26 GMT -5
No, they are not enough. I agree we need the proven 3 point shooter the solid perimeter defender, but I think we need a starting PG. Hopefully RB can be convinced somehow to take a secondary role on a much better, that is - winning, team. I think we need a 1 year big to take some of the pressure off of Sorber. Sorber, Fielder, and Cook are not enough at the 4/5. Our defense was so epically bad, there is an argument to make that we need a complete makeover at the 1-2-3. Another point....you have to find some way to have a modicum of roster stability. Turning over the roster every year is not helping us. We need to keep the best current pieces and find ways to put them in positions to be successful. |
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,999
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 19, 2024 10:25:11 GMT -5
In terms of retention, we need to keep enough volume to not be completely starting from scratch. I'd like to ensure we keep Fielder and Styles, and then Rowan and Epps. No one single transfer there is devastating -- but it's just very tough to see how a team with a few transfers and four freshman really functions if we have a mass exodus of those players.
Cook tries very hard, but I struggle to see a world in which he stays but also doesn't have his minutes minimized, and I don't know how we're any good if he's playing 25+ minutes a game.
Number one transfer for me is a big who can defend. Even with Fielder and Sorber, I think we absolutely need someone with little to no risk as a defensive player in the middle. I can even put up with a Freshman and Fielder in the sort of 3 men for 2 spots at C and PF that we'd have if we only got one guy (which is dangerous with foul trouble and injuries) if we know one dude can play 30 minutes and be just average at defense.
After that, I think we need shooting. Ideally, it's a point guard who can hit a three, but if I had to decide between Rowan and Epps sharing point responsibilities with a guard who can reliably hit the three or a non-shooting PG, I think I'd go former. Mostly because offensively, I think maybe Rowan can do more next year. Maybe I'm crazy on that. Rowan and Styles were streaky and lower volume; Epps was streaky and bad on the whole. If Massoud was as advertised, we had 2-3 more BE wins alone on that, but with Heath gone, we're down a shooter already.
Lastly, yes, a reliable, veteran point guard would help, especially one that could defend. If you could swing a shooter and a shooting PG, then losing transfer guards would not be terrible (though I'd like to keep guys).
The good news for me is that if we keep Fielder and Styles, and one of the guards, then get three quality transfers plus the freshman class ... we're thin and injuries would kill us ... but I think that team is MUCH better if those transfers are really quality. Because I think Styles is a solid piece and Fielder/Sorber will be very solid next year.
But at least three transfers.
|
|
This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,598
|
Post by This Just In on Mar 19, 2024 10:58:21 GMT -5
Already 1 transfer and more than last likely 2-3 more. Nobody going to stay here. The school or students or community cares. This is not ever going to be better. No home stadium to play in says a lot. This team under Cooley didn’t even play defense. Inexcusable. Nobody can win here mark it down nobody can win here. It’s just irrelevant and no one give a damn about the basketball program. Just shut it down and forget it. Never change same garbage year after freaking year. Sick of this mess. It has been very very bad the last several years. But the right coach whether its's Cooley or someone else can get this turned around. Cooley has at least 2 to 3 more years to get this program turned around. |
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,143
|
Post by RBHoya on Mar 19, 2024 11:03:37 GMT -5
The conundrum with this core is that the problems (in terms of positions), and thus the solution, are not glaringly obvious. I can talk myself into Brumbaugh, Epps and Mulready being sufficient with another year of development. I can talk myself into Cook, Fielder and Sorber being a solid 4/5 rotation. In both cases we'd probably need at least one more body, but you can see a scenario where the core guys hang around and improve and we just need to augment with depth rather than needing to land a superstar in the portal.
Of course we know that can't really be the case (or the strategy) because if we believe in both of those things we're essentially running it back with a 2-18 team and expecting a dramatically different result. Can't do that.
So with that in mind, plus our purportedly substantial NIL budget, we start "star hunting" in the portal. But the simple fact is that none of this stuff happens in a vacuum, and whatever position we spend most of our NIL on, there's a very real chance that it drives off one or more of the current guys who feels recruited over. For example if we spend big on a point guard we might lose Brumbaugh, if we land a big fish at PF/C then Fielder and/or Cook may enter the portal. So you have to think not just one but two or three moves ahead and prepare yourself for that. Inevitably there will be some people that lament the roster turning over yet again, but coming off of 2-18 you have 2 choices--either keep the core guys happy and run it back, hoping they miraculously grow into a >.500 team (or accepting it if they once again are not), OR, upgrade the talent and live with the hurt feelings and portal declarations that follow. It's unfortunate but to me the choice is obvious.
I think we have no choice but to upgrade as much as we can wherever we can and let the chips fall where they may as it pertains to departures. The biggest issue we had was our woeful defense and especially opponents 2point FG%, which I largely blame on not having anyone who can protect the rim. Getting that player in the fold would be my priority #1. I would then try to upgrade both guard spots. If there's an elite forward out there who wants to play for Cooley, sign him up too.
|
|
|
|
Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Mar 19, 2024 11:04:04 GMT -5
In terms of retention, we need to keep enough volume to not be completely starting from scratch. I'd like to ensure we keep Fielder and Styles, and then Rowan and Epps. No one single transfer there is devastating -- but it's just very tough to see how a team with a few transfers and four freshman really functions if we have a mass exodus of those players. Cook tries very hard, but I struggle to see a world in which he stays but also doesn't have his minutes minimized, and I don't know how we're any good if he's playing 25+ minutes a game. Number one transfer for me is a big who can defend. Even with Fielder and Sorber, I think we absolutely need someone with little to no risk as a defensive player in the middle. I can even put up with a Freshman and Fielder in the sort of 3 men for 2 spots at C and PF that we'd have if we only got one guy (which is dangerous with foul trouble and injuries) if we know one dude can play 30 minutes and be just average at defense. After that, I think we need shooting. Ideally, it's a point guard who can hit a three, but if I had to decide between Rowan and Epps sharing point responsibilities with a guard who can reliably hit the three or a non-shooting PG, I think I'd go former. Mostly because offensively, I think maybe Rowan can do more next year. Maybe I'm crazy on that. Rowan and Styles were streaky and lower volume; Epps was streaky and bad on the whole. If Massoud was as advertised, we had 2-3 more BE wins alone on that, but with Heath gone, we're down a shooter already. Lastly, yes, a reliable, veteran point guard would help, especially one that could defend. If you could swing a shooter and a shooting PG, then losing transfer guards would not be terrible (though I'd like to keep guys). The good news for me is that if we keep Fielder and Styles, and one of the guards, then get three quality transfers plus the freshman class ... we're thin and injuries would kill us ... but I think that team is MUCH better if those transfers are really quality. Because I think Styles is a solid piece and Fielder/Sorber will be very solid next year. But at least three transfers. This! I totally concur. |
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,425
|
Post by jwp91 on Mar 19, 2024 11:05:56 GMT -5
The conundrum with this core is that the problems (in terms of positions), and thus the solution, are not glaringly obvious. I can talk myself into Brumbaugh, Epps and Mulready being sufficient with another year of development. I can talk myself into Cook, Fielder and Sorber being a solid 4/5 rotation. In both cases we'd probably need at least one more body, but you can see a scenario where the core guys hang around and improve and we just need to augment with depth rather than needing to land a superstar in the portal. Of course we know that can't really be the case (or the strategy) because if we believe in both of those things we're essentially running it back with a 2-18 team and expecting a dramatically different result. Can't do that. So with that in mind, plus our purportedly substantial NIL budget, we start "star hunting" in the portal. But the simple fact is that none of this stuff happens in a vacuum, and whatever position we spend most of our NIL on, there's a very real chance that it drives off one or more of the current guys who feels recruited over. For example if we spend big on a point guard we might lose Brumbaugh, if we land a big fish at PF/C then Fielder and/or Cook may enter the portal. So you have to think not just one but two or three moves ahead and prepare yourself for that. Inevitably there will be some people that lament the roster turning over yet again, but coming off of 2-18 you have 2 choices--either keep the core guys happy and run it back, hoping they miraculously grow into a >.500 team (or accepting it if they once again are not), OR, upgrade the talent and live with the hurt feelings and portal declarations that follow. It's unfortunate but to me the choice is obvious. I think we have no choice but to upgrade as much as we can wherever we can and let the chips fall where they may as it pertains to departures. The biggest issue we had was our woeful defense and especially opponents 2point FG%, which I largely blame on not having anyone who can protect the rim. Getting that player in the fold would be my priority #1. I would then try to upgrade both guard spots. If there's an elite forward out there who wants to play for Cooley, sign him up too. Agree. Great points. This is one of the reasons I would prioritize a 1 year PG and a 1 year Center. Then you have try to convince RB and the bigs to be patient and to be an important member of a winning team and not the starter on a bad team. |
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,143
|
Post by RBHoya on Mar 19, 2024 11:22:46 GMT -5
Agree. Great points. This is one of the reasons I would prioritize a 1 year PG and a 1 year Center. Then you have try to convince RB and the bigs to be patient and to be an important member of a winning team and not the starter on a bad team. Thank you and I agree. In an ideal world we recruit an elite point guard who is going to be here for 1 season. Rowan can back him up--no shame in 15 minutes a game off the bench as a sophomore, especially if the team is winning. Then he can take over the reigns as a junior. Same principle applies with Fielder, I'd love a 1 year rim protector via the portal and let Fielder continue to grow into his position as a backup next year before taking over a starting job as a junior. Unfortunately real life seldom works out quite that cleanly, both in terms of being able to land transfers that are 1 year only AND good enough to lift us from the doldrums AND actually want to come here, and in terms of being able to convince young guys with options like RB and DF to be patient for another year before it's really their turn. So I expect it won't work out quite that neatly. But in an ideal world we'd get some elite transfers who are just going to be here for a year before graduating/going pro and we can convince (possibly through sweeter NIL deals) the young core to wait that out. |
|
