Head Coaches Discussion

[hoyaboya]

Seems like we should go ahead and start a thread on this since there have been discussions on other threads. A couple of names that have moved to the top, at least based on Hoyas' fans comments, include:

Rick Pitino
Jared Grasso

Grasso's bio via Bryant is as follows:

www.bryantbulldogs.com/sports/mbkb/Coaches/Jared_Grasso

[hoyaguy]

If we really do decide on up and comers (instead of the best option imo Pitino) then:

Grant McCasland should be considered

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_McCasland

Assistant under Drew at Baylor, won the CBI at North Texas and shows good progression there since arriving even making the round of 32 of the tournament in 2021

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Anthony Grant from Dayton would need a long look. Main knock is he is a bit old at 56.

Wes Miller from Cincinnati is another one I would be interested in. Only 39. Has a good amount of prior experience.

Mike Jones from Va. Tech & Dematha. WCAC ties, USA Basketball ties. He is mid-40's.

[kghoya]

In this fantasy scenario is Ronny Thompson not involved in the hiring process?

[SSHoya]

Nov 28, 2022 11:44:34 GMT -5 kghoya said:

In this fantasy scenario is Ronny Thompson not involved in the hiring process?

How about he pulls a Dick Cheney and selects himself??

[hoyaboya]

Meant to put this earlier as somebody mentioned him in another thread, but Chris Mack would be a great candidate as well. Not sure exactly what went down in Louisville, but the program seems to have gotten a lot worse since he left.

One thing to consider is we'll likely need to pay a relatively low rate for the next coach, given the size of Ewing's buyout. That might limit our candidate pool and not allow for certain experienced hires like Mack. It would likely mean people like Grasso, McCasland or a rehabilitated Pitino (who has already had his payday and would be willing to take a discounted rate) are particularly attractive candidates.

[kghoya]

Nov 28, 2022 11:45:48 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Nov 28, 2022 11:44:34 GMT -5 kghoya said:

In this fantasy scenario is Ronny Thompson not involved in the hiring process?

How about he pulls a Dick Cheney and selects himself??

OK so if Ronny is still involved the list of possible coaches in the event that Ewing were to step down (he won't) are as follows:

Kevin Nickelberry
Johnny Dawkins
Tommy Amaker
Ronny Thompson
Patrick Ewing Jr

[SSHoya]

Nov 28, 2022 12:00:40 GMT -5 kghoya said:

Nov 28, 2022 11:45:48 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

How about he pulls a Dick Cheney and selects himself??

OK so if Ronny is still involved the list of possible coaches in the event that Ewing were to step down (he won't) are as follows:

Kevin Nickelberry
Johnny Dawkins
Tommy Amaker
Ronny Thompson
Patrick Ewing Jr

I'd add Mike Jones.

[RBHoya]

Not sure if the admin will let this post hang around but I hope so, it's the #1 thing fans of the program are interested in, and the only thing giving us hope is that this may soon come to an end and a new coach will save us.

The thread on this topic from last year is still fairly relevant, available here: hoyatalk2.proboards.com/thread/32897/college-basketball-coaches-discussion

Some of the names that were discussed at that point and that did not end up moving up last off-season include:

Rhoades (VCU)
Grant (Dayton)
Pitino (Iona)
Mack (former Xavier and Louisville)
English (George Mason)
J. Jones (Yale)
M. Jones (VA Tech Assistant)
McCasland (North Texas)
N. Smith (Louisville Assistant)
Langel (Colgate)


Stock on some of these guys has gone up and down since then, and that'll continue to happen as this year unfolds. We'll also for sure see other coaches who were not known last year who will emerge this spring.

[gojeffgoroyunder7]

It's super depressing (but justified) that we have this thread up in November. I hope the team turns the corner, and I will be rooting for them to do just that.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Nov 28, 2022 12:00:40 GMT -5 kghoya said:

Nov 28, 2022 11:45:48 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

How about he pulls a Dick Cheney and selects himself??

OK so if Ronny is still involved the list of possible coaches in the event that Ewing were to step down (he won't) are as follows:

Kevin Nickelberry
Johnny Dawkins
Tommy Amaker
Ronny Thompson
Patrick Ewing Jr

Ironically, the single person who is way more qualified than all of these people--and acceptable to Ronny--is John Thompson III, but of course that would never happen.

I do sometimes wonder if, had JT3 gone and coached somewhere else and had success, if they would have hired him back at some point. This will never happen, though we could do a lot worse.

On the others, Amaker is mediocre at best, and failed when he was at a high major. Dawkins failed at Stanford, and would not be a significant improvement. Ronny Thompson is obviously utterly unqualified, as is Patrick Ewing Jr. There just isn't anybody in the Georgetown orbit who is even remotely qualified, but that will not necessarily stop them from hiring such a person.

[bostonfan]

Nov 28, 2022 12:28:44 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Not sure if the admin will let this post hang around but I hope so, it's the #1 thing fans of the program are interested in, and the only thing giving us hope is that this may soon come to an end and a new coach will save us.

The thread on this topic from last year is still fairly relevant, available here: hoyatalk2.proboards.com/thread/32897/college-basketball-coaches-discussion

Some of the names that were discussed at that point and that did not end up moving up last off-season include:

Rhoades (VCU)
Grant (Dayton)
Pitino (Iona)
Mack (former Xavier and Louisville)
English (George Mason)
J. Jones (Yale)
M. Jones (VA Tech Assistant)
McCasland (North Texas)
N. Smith (Louisville Assistant)
Langel (Colgate)


Stock on some of these guys has gone up and down since then, and that'll continue to happen as this year unfolds. We'll also for sure see other coaches who were not known last year who will emerge this spring.

I have no idea if the school will be looking for a new coach next year or not, but if they are going to look, they need to swing for the fences and at least check in with the really big names that have proven they can succeed at a high level. Put a call into Oates at Alabama, Few at Gonzaga, Drew at Baylor and Sampson at Houston. I doubt that these guys would be interested, but you never know until you ask. I am sure there are others guys who fit this bill as well, but those guys came to mind instantly. If they do hire a new guy they can''t settle for someone they "hope" knows how to run a big time program. They need to bring someone in that has shown they can get it done.

[kghoya]

Nov 28, 2022 13:14:19 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Nov 28, 2022 12:00:40 GMT -5 kghoya said:

OK so if Ronny is still involved the list of possible coaches in the event that Ewing were to step down (he won't) are as follows:

Kevin Nickelberry
Johnny Dawkins
Tommy Amaker
Ronny Thompson
Patrick Ewing Jr

Ironically, the single person who is way more qualified than all of these people--and acceptable to Ronny--is John Thompson III, but of course that would never happen.

I do sometimes wonder if, had JT3 gone and coached somewhere else and had success, if they would have hired him back at some point. This will never happen, though we could do a lot worse.

On the others, Amaker is mediocre at best, and failed when he was at a high major. Dawkins failed at Stanford, and would not be a significant improvement. Ronny Thompson is obviously utterly unqualified, as is Patrick Ewing Jr. There just isn't anybody in the Georgetown orbit who is even remotely qualified, but that will not necessarily stop them from hiring such a person.

I considered throwing in the last coach but that just seemed silly given that he hasn't coached in college since the 2017 BET. He has done some coaching with Team USA. I do think he's better than anyone on my above list of sadness.

[104pleasant]

If not Pitino then hire
* a young coach with (at least) mid major head coaching experience
* who likes his team to play end to end, and
* who has a swagger (an edge) to him
* has no existing ties to Georgetown University.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Nov 28, 2022 13:42:18 GMT -5 104pleasant said:

If not Pitino then hire
* a young coach with (at least) mid major head coaching experience
* who likes his team to play end to end, and
* who has a swagger (an edge) to him
* has no existing ties to Georgetown University.

I would add that IF we went the young coach route (and I would only do that if someone with established credentials/experience like Pitino is unavailable), it should be someone who has already shown consistent improvement/success at their previous school. You're looking for someone who over 3-5 years has generally trended upward. This can be a high major in a conference where basketball is less important (SEC/PAC 12), or a mid-major.

The real key in any future higher is to minimize the risk of failure and maximize the potential of a quick turnaround. The problem is that once you get below the Pitino types, of which there are few, the risk attendant to any choice is fairly high, even for someone who has shown some success at a mid major. But, all of this is a step above what we did in 2017, in hiring someone with no relevant experience whatsoever coaching a college basketball team.

[hoyasaxa2003]

I thought I'd take all the young and comers and include below the last 5 seasons they have coached, and their KenPom ranking (going for oldest to current). I may not have time, but will try to keep this updated as people throw out names. I am NOT including assistants with no head coaching experience on this list.

Up and Comers/Less Experience, but Have Coached at College Level

Jared Grasso (Bryant): 327, 234, 185, 189, 153
- Notes: Grasso's last three teams have been among the highest pace in the country (top 10). His teams are more offensive-minded, than defense (which has generally been ranked below 200).

Grant McCasland (North Texas): 158, 77, 72, 57, 71
- Notes: In contrast to Grasso, McCasland plays a SUPER slow tempo, in fact they are the slowest team in D-1 right now at 59.8 possessions per game. But, his team's defensive ranking the last three seasons are quite good (48, 22, 59). Intriguing.

Rhoades (VCU): 42, 73, 48, 63, 96
- Notes: Rhoades has had some really good defensive teams at VCU, so there's that going for him. His teams have sort of been stagnant. He's had two tournament bids so far.

Kim English (George Mason): 113, 120
- Notes: There's just very little to go off here. He does seem to have improved a bit on Dave Paulsen, but he's not knocking it out of the park yet, either. Potential, perhaps, but a risky hire.

Established Coaches Already At Other Programs

Anthony Grant (Dayton): 62, 4, 87, 45, 55
- Notes: Of course, Grant coached several season at Alabama and VCU, and always had teams in the 50-90 range, with a few better than that. Definitely would be an improvement on current status. His last two Dayton teams have been good defensively, ranked 39 and 28. He's an established head coach who would bring stability, though probably not as much upside as others.

Wes Miller (Cincinnati): 101, 74
- Notes: Miller had a long coaching history at UNC Greensboro, where he greatly improved the team, though it took several years and was a slow progression. His teams do not particularly defend well. For me, this is a hard pass.

Kevin Nickelberry (Howard): 332, 259, 338, 335, 305
- Notes: Yes, he has head coaching experience, but he didn't get it done at Howard, and they've improved since he left. He may be a great recruiter, and I appreciate his efforts for us there, but I don't think he's a reasonable candidate.

Johnny Dawkins: 34, 117, 100, 104, 72
- Notes: Dawkins is one of those guys who may not be horrible/awful, but he's also not that good. At Stanford he managed to have a few teams that were okay (only one NCAA team). Put differently, he's coached 15 seasons at Stanford/UCF and made 2 tournaments. Hard pass.

Tommy Amaker: 114, 110, 184, 228, 205
- Notes: I know last time his name was bandied about, but except for that 4-5 year period where Harvard was looking good, Harvard has regressed to a typical Ivy, and the trend is in the wrong direction. Hard pass.

J. Jones (Yale): 77, 58, 123, 147, 100
- Notes: Jones has coached Yale forever, and it took a long time for him to field more comeptitive teams, that in the larger scheme of things are okay but not great. I would not hire him, as the upside is limited.

Matt Langel (Colgate): 126, 118, 89, 117, 106:
- Notes: Langel has coached Colgate since the 2012 season. While his last 5 years are much better than what came before, it's not inspiring either, and his teams do not play good defense (defensive rating usually lagging the overall rating). I would not hire him.

Others/Out of Game/Unique Circumstances

In the interest of trying to keep a full list, here are the people either out of the game, or who I don't consider on the list above, but who I consider possible:

Rick Pitino (Iona): 178, 89, 88 [in contrast, Pitino had 7 teams in the KenPom top 10 at Louisville]
- Notes: To me, Pitino is the closest thing to a sure thing Georgetown could realistically find.

Chris Mack (Louisville): 23, 9, 59, 127
- Notes: Other than the last two seasons at Louisville, Mack has a stellar history. While I'd want to know more about what happened at Louisville, he'd probably be my next choice over Pitino unless the reach candidates are available.

Sampson (Houston): 12, 14, 5, 2, 2
- Note: The "holier than thou" crowd won't want him because of his older NCAA violations despite his having no issues since (and his former violations no longer being violations). Frankly, there's no way this hire happens because he's so successful at Houston and leaving to come to Georgetown would not be attractive. I was hesitant to even list him for this reason, but he's an amazing coach.

Unrealistically Good (But Impossible) Choices

I am not going to bother even listing unrealistic types like Few, Beilein, Donovoan, Brad Stevens, etc. That's not happening.

[hoyaguy]

Nov 28, 2022 11:46:08 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Meant to put this earlier as somebody mentioned him in another thread, but Chris Mack would be a great candidate as well. Not sure exactly what went down in Louisville, but the program seems to have gotten a lot worse since he left.

One thing to consider is we'll likely need to pay a relatively low rate for the next coach, given the size of Ewing's buyout. That might limit our candidate pool and not allow for certain experienced hires like Mack. It would likely mean people like Grasso, McCasland or a rehabilitated Pitino (who has already had his payday and would be willing to take a discounted rate) are particularly attractive candidates.

There wouldn't need to be a buyout for Mack though right? So in theory that would lower his cost and if he is considered at all "damaged goods" then could probably get him for a lower rate than he was paid at Louisville. Wouldn't be my first choice but would be near the top 

[hoyaguy]

Of the ones listed by 2003 my list of calls would be:

1. Pitino
2. Mack
3. McCasland

Wildcard: Mike Jones

I agree that discussing the "unattainable" is a waste of time, Mack would be good if the price is right which it could be, Sampson is no since Houston is going to switch to the Big 12 (the best CBB conference rn) along with other reasons, the other "established" coaches are uninspiring and would cost a good bit of $$, and then the up and comers is a toss up after McCasland (who probably has the best track record so far).

[drquigley]

I have no idea who any of the suggested coaches are with the exception of Pitino. But why aren't we looking at what worked at the most successful program in the history of the Big East? Jay Wright was a Pennsylvania/Philly kid who understood not just how to coach but how to build a program. He was invested in the Philly basketball scene and brought his energy and commitment to the entire Nova community. Rather than look all over the country for a coach why not stay local (like we did with JT2) and get a guy (not older than 40) who grew up in the DMV, who has documented coaching cred, and who is HUNGRY. Leave it up to those on this Board with more knowledge than I of the local basketball scene to come up with some names.

[bostonfan]

Whoever the coach is, that person needs to have the ability to do a few things. the ones that come to mind for me are:

1)Develop a program culture - Make Georgetown a place players not only want to come to, but want to stay.
2)Establish an identity/playing style - Back in the old days the Hoyas were know as a physical defensive team that would outwork other teams. Doesn't need to be that, but needs to be something. Not sure what identity I would say the current team has.
3)Retain players - (even those not in the top 6 -7 for playing time) this is part of point number 1, but something needs to change from what is currently going on. Other schools keep kids and develop them over the course of a few years. Need to find a way to make that happen.
4) Improve recruiting, especially locally - this has been talked about forever, but it does not seem that much headway has occurred. Maybe Nickleberry is helping, but the results are mixed right now
5) Motivate players/add energy to team - think Shaka Smart/Shaheen Holloway - I think this is something that Coach Ewing struggles with, because he was such a high level player he did not need to be motivated, but today's players need to be pushed to play hard all the time. I am not a huge fan of coaches that seem to be "cheerleaders", but todays coaches need to set the tone for the energy expected from players at all times.