hoyaroc
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,334
|
Post by hoyaroc on Nov 29, 2022 16:50:57 GMT -5
I've stayed away from posting on the board for much of the last couple years, because what good comes from getting riled up over our program right now? But I feel the need to be the voice against a sentiment that I can't comprehend in this thread: I really, really, really don't want Rick Pitino. As an alum, I'll always love GU, but it might be the end of me supporting the team ever again. I can't imagine a more desperate and detrimental hire that would signal that our program is done. We may have fallen on our face, but we have a chance to rectify that. And instead we would hire a tarred and feathered, corrupt, ethically compromised 70 year old (!!!!!!) coach whom the basketball landscape has passed by. This wasn't an oopsie or a one-time thing. The level of ethics issues at Louisville was especially egregious by even college basketball levels: www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/sports/pitino-louisville-scandals.html. But forget the ethical considerations, he is 70 years old. Only a very small number of coaches have stayed in jobs past that age, let alone taking on rebuilding a program at that age. How do we expect him to have the energy or time needed to try to revitalize our program? There are 352 division 1 coaches and there are less than a handful over 70. We could try to hire any of them. It's going to take an awful lot to change the narrative of our program and an awful lot of energy to create the recruiting pipelines and an awful lot of charisma and enthusiasm to revitalize the fanbase, the students, the alumni, the ex-players, and the DC metro region. Pitino might have been a great tactician at one point, but is he doing anything today that is considered new, cutting edge, tactically innovative, or embracing the way the game is changing -- something that would excite potential recruits? How do we expect Pitino to stay up to speed on all of the complexities that NIL and the transfer portal have provided when more heralded peers of his (like Coach K) have found it too difficult and decided it's finally time to retire? So while the Pitino that went to Kentucky and maybe even the one who went to Louisville could have been a program leader and a top hire, it seems like a desperate attempt to stay relevant by reaching for a guy desperate to save his legacy that should have retired by now (or just stay at a small school where he can have nice successes). Maybe I'm a delusional alum that thinks Georgetown is a better job than it is, but I'd still wager it's a top 25 job if handled right. It's at a top 25 institution, in one of the big 6 conferences, has a lot of historical success and national relevance, sits in one of the most fertile recruiting areas of the country, is paying it's coach a top 12 salary nationally (if the $3.95M reported by Hilltop Hoops is right, and the salary numbers for other coaches reported by various sports sites elsewhere are right), has the DC metro area as a source of fans, NIL opportunities, and as a playground for its players social lives, and a fanbase who despite everything the administration has done to try to starve us of energy is waiting for an opportunity to embrace the program again and bring the excitement back. We should be looking for a coach who can capitalize on all of that. Not a desperate hail mary offer to a has-been with severe ethical issues. My other rooting interest (since Gtown has no FBS football) has always been USC football. Many thought USC was over and could not be fully revitalized after far too many years of Clay Helton running the program into the ground. Fans clamored for the ethically compromised choice of Urban Meyer. Pundits thought they might be lucky to get Matt Campbell from Iowa or Luke Fickell from Cincinnati. Some even wondered why Kyle Whittingham would leave Utah for USC. But they had an AD and a board and football alums who didn't doubt what USC could be again and went out and made Lincoln Riley an offer he couldn't refuse and look what's already happening there? We don't quite have USC football's legacy and DC is not quite the glitz and glamor of LaLaLand. But damn it, we are still quite a program. Or we could be. If our administration gave a damn or wasn't so impotent. If a coalition of high profile sports-related past/present board members and alums like Mutombo, Mourning, Tagliabue, McCourt, Leonsis, and some more recent like Hibbert or Freeman or whomever showed up at the house of Scott Drew (or a similar level coach) and say hey, I know you're doing well here, but you've taken this as far as it can go in Waco and in the Big 12, and we can pay you a lot more than your $3.5M (we'd have to find a way to pony up a lot more just like USC did) and we can offer you all the advantages of DC and Georgetown... how long does he consider it? I'd imagine longer than most would think. I think some of the current Big 12 or Pac-12 schools could be especially vulnerable right now to losing coaches, given conference realignments about to happen with their biggest name universities, but if not Drew, is there another proven 30, 40, or 50 year old coach out there with a dynamic style of coaching and play and the energy and charisma to revitalize a fanbase that would take it? Address the money and the Thompson influence and someone with a high profile will find the job enticing. I know that's not a given, and I love our history, but it is time we start looking forward as a program and a university. And if our current administration can't do that -- which DeGioia has not shown -- then it's time the board acted and we moved on. If we can't go homerun swinging, then let's at least go for someone who could rebuild the program, not a hopeless retread like Pitino that smacks of desperation. These are the same people that claim that Thompson / Ewing regime is corrupt. But the guy Pitino is biggest corrupted crook in college basketball. š |
|
daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,410 
|
Post by daveg023 on Nov 29, 2022 16:58:09 GMT -5
Donāt confuse inept with corrupt.
|
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,235
|
Post by hoya9797 on Nov 29, 2022 17:41:01 GMT -5
Donāt confuse inept with corrupt. Why not both? |
|
Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
Posts: 1,519
|
Post by Just Cos on Nov 29, 2022 23:57:26 GMT -5
Bumping this because itās the only thing that brings me joy on this thread.
I get both sides of the Pitino coin and really think we need someone to come in and bring a new identity back to this program. Also heād be bigger than life and should be able to deal with GU admin more than an up and comer. But heās oldā¦I just donāt know.
With all the changes recently I just feel like we need young blood, but maybe thatās too hopeful that we land the right coach. Pitino is the coach Iām in but Iām good taking a risk.
Still November and having this conversation. We are Nebraska football.
|
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 30, 2022 8:19:47 GMT -5
I support the current staff- but if there is a change, I would hope that Jon Wallace would be considered.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,643
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 30, 2022 8:37:59 GMT -5
I support the current staff- but if there is a change, I would hope that Jon Wallace would be considered. Iāll bite. What coaching experience does he have? How much should GU pay him? |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 30, 2022 9:10:08 GMT -5
Bumping this because itās the only thing that brings me joy on this thread. I get both sides of the Pitino coin and really think we need someone to come in and bring a new identity back to this program. Also heād be bigger than life and should be able to deal with GU admin more than an up and comer. But heās oldā¦I just donāt know. With all the changes recently I just feel like we need young blood, but maybe thatās too hopeful that we land the right coach. Pitino is the coach Iām in but Iām good taking a risk. Still November and having this conversation. We are Nebraska football. Pitino isnāt coming here. This is like the Shaheen Holloway pipe dream. The only way We would have had a chance for Holloway were if the Hall were stupid enough to keep Kevin Willard so that the Seton hall position wasnāt available. For multiple reasons Pitinos isnāt coming here but even if all those things were addressed Coach Pitino would still need his former player, Coach Ewingās blessing. So just drop the Pitino talk. |
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,235
|
Post by hoya9797 on Nov 30, 2022 9:15:21 GMT -5
Bumping this because itās the only thing that brings me joy on this thread. I get both sides of the Pitino coin and really think we need someone to come in and bring a new identity back to this program. Also heād be bigger than life and should be able to deal with GU admin more than an up and comer. But heās oldā¦I just donāt know. With all the changes recently I just feel like we need young blood, but maybe thatās too hopeful that we land the right coach. Pitino is the coach Iām in but Iām good taking a risk. Still November and having this conversation. We are Nebraska football. Pitino isnāt coming here. This is like the Shaheen Holloway pipe dream. The only way We would have had a chance for Holloway were if the Hall were stupid enough to keep Kevin Willard so that the Seton hall position wasnāt available. For multiple reasons Pitinos isnāt coming here but even if all those things were addressed Coach Pitino would still need his former player, Coach Ewingās blessing. So just drop the Pitino talk. The idea that Pat Ewing would have any say over the guy who comes in to fix the disaster of his making is so stupid it could only come from a select few. Unfortunately, the GU admin might be among that group. |
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,235
|
Post by hoya9797 on Nov 30, 2022 9:18:05 GMT -5
I support the current staff- but if there is a change, I would hope that Jon Wallace would be considered. Why do you hate Georgetown so much? |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 30, 2022 9:26:17 GMT -5
Pitino isnāt coming here. This is like the Shaheen Holloway pipe dream. The only way We would have had a chance for Holloway were if the Hall were stupid enough to keep Kevin Willard so that the Seton hall position wasnāt available. For multiple reasons Pitinos isnāt coming here but even if all those things were addressed Coach Pitino would still need his former player, Coach Ewingās blessing. So just drop the Pitino talk. The idea that Pat Ewing would have any say over the guy who comes in to fix the disaster of his making is so stupid it could only come from a select few. Unfortunately, the GU admin might be among that group. Itās more about Coach Pitino not being comfortable taking the job of his player and friend, Coach Ewing who was pushed out by Locust Club. Thatās why he would not take the job unless Coach Ewing gave him his blessing. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 30, 2022 9:28:08 GMT -5
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,750
|
Post by hoyaboya on Nov 30, 2022 9:36:58 GMT -5
So if he hadn't gone to Georgetown, he'd be just like hundreds of other unqualified young candidates who have connections to the NBA. Got it, makes sense - let's put him at the top of the list! |
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,750
|
Post by hoyaboya on Nov 30, 2022 9:38:23 GMT -5
The idea that Pat Ewing would have any say over the guy who comes in to fix the disaster of his making is so stupid it could only come from a select few. Unfortunately, the GU admin might be among that group. Itās more about Coach Pitino not being comfortable taking the job of his player and friend, Coach Ewing who was pushed out by Locust Club. Thatās why he would not take the job unless Coach Ewing gave him his blessing. I think Pitino would be perfectly comfortable taking the position knowing how badly Patrick Ewing has failed at his job, despite being given unprecedented levels of patience and compensation from the Georgetown administration. Everybody wanted Ewing to succeed, unfortunately he's terrible at the job. |
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,643
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 30, 2022 10:14:54 GMT -5
The āNBAā allegedly had Patrick Ewing as a contender for various head coaching jobs, and look how that turned out. āConnected to GUā and a āvery good studentā are not qualifications for a basketball head coaching job. Btw, donāt get me wrong, any smart former GU player like Wallace with the same college basketball coaching experience as Pat (that is, none) would be a better coach than Pat, but that is not a very hard standard. Pat has lowered the coaching bar to places where we didnāt think the bar could sink to... |
|
|
|
Post by Lethal_Interjection on Nov 30, 2022 10:15:37 GMT -5
Why not? He's relatively young (he turns 50 next month).  |
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 30, 2022 10:20:10 GMT -5
GU is not alone if it believes prior head coaching experience is not that important- Chapel Hill, Dook, and others agree.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,143
|
Post by RBHoya on Nov 30, 2022 10:28:31 GMT -5
I think the only thing that could possibly be more embarrassing than what we've experienced these last couple years (total ineptitude + multi million dollar extensions + bringing a coach back for year 6 after a winless conference season, etc. etc.) would be if we dismissed the current coach only to replace him with a new coach from within "the family." There is not anybody from the Thompson tree that should even be in the Top 100 candidates for the position. Bringing back JTIII, Kevin Broadus, Jonathan Wallace, Jaren Jackson, Patrick Ewing Jr., etc. are all ridiculous suggestions and would make us an even bigger laughingstock and punching bag than we've already become. And rightfully so.
This is a (very expensive) basketball program that is expected to compete at the highest levels nationally, it is not a patronage program for former players looking to make a few million bucks. I think it's totally fine to have ex players in supporting roles, ie. Assistant DoBO, as they look to build their resumes and move up in the coaching ranks. But the head coach needs to be the most qualified man for the job, and there is nobody in "the family" who is remotely close to that.
There's always gonna be ~5% of the fanbase who can't "get" that, or who are more loyal to JT2's legacy than they are to Georgetown and so argue otherwise. But hopefully the vast majority of people can agree that the next head coach CANNOT be from the Thompson tree.
|
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 30, 2022 10:30:09 GMT -5
The idea that Pat Ewing would have any say over the guy who comes in to fix the disaster of his making is so stupid it could only come from a select few. Unfortunately, the GU admin might be among that group. Itās more about Coach Pitino not being comfortable taking the job of his player and friend, Coach Ewing who was pushed out by Locust Club. Thatās why he would not take the job unless Coach Ewing gave him his blessing. Unless you are pals with Pat and Rick, this seems like not only a lot of speculation, but a stretch, too. In a lot of ways, Georgetown is actually a good fit for Pitino. Like Iona, it's a Catholic school. Like Iona, it's a northeastern school (though I am pushing the boundaries of what is considered traditionally northeast). It's in the Big East, a conference Pitino already coached in twice at Providence and Louisville. Perhaps most of all, Rick Pitino's kid went to Georgetown! And basically, it's the only Big East program that needs a coach. All the other schools in the conference either have established coaches (Connecticut, Creighton, Providence, Marquette) or relatively new coaches (but also some experienced) that aren't going anywhere short term (DePaul, Xavier, Butler, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova). While not impossible, I do think that Pitino's NCAA violations make him a bit of a harder sell on a public university or the type of schools that might hire him in the ACC/Big 10/Big 12, and for many of the same reasons, many of those schools either have new/established coaches, and so a ton of them won't be looking in the short term either. As hoya9797 notes, the idea that Ewing should have any influence over this if/when it happens, is riidculous though not necessarily in the bizarre world that is Georgetown administration/basketball. And the idea of Jon Wallace is just not a good one because he has no experience. Listen, if there was someone like Jon Wallace/Tyler Adams/Austin Freeman, who was the head coach of a college program doing well (basically, what JT3 was in 2004), I would very much consider them and maybe even favor them. But, unfortunately, at this time, that person doesn't exist. The JT3 era guys are just too young in their coaching careers, and there's nobody established that is qualified for the job. This is actually a good pitch for Pitino. Give him 5 years or so (maybe more, if he's still sharp) to right the program, make some long NCAA runs, and make the job more palatable, so that next time when we do need a coach, the job is more desirable, and maybe there really will be a candidate like Jon Wallace, but with experience. |
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,643
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 30, 2022 10:31:10 GMT -5
GU is not alone if it believes prior head coaching experience is not that important- Chapel Hill, Dook, and others agree. Those places have coaching trees and have nurtured their current coaches through their own ranks. There are no gardeners or nurturers in the Thompson/Ewing family. š |
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,235
|
Post by hoya9797 on Nov 30, 2022 10:32:47 GMT -5
The idea that Pat Ewing would have any say over the guy who comes in to fix the disaster of his making is so stupid it could only come from a select few. Unfortunately, the GU admin might be among that group. Itās more about Coach Pitino not being comfortable taking the job of his player and friend, Coach Ewing who was pushed out by Locust Club. Thatās why he would not take the job unless Coach Ewing gave him his blessing. I doubt any of this is true and Iām 100% sure you have no reason to think any of it is true. I love the idea that Ewing would be āpushed outā rather than being fired for about a million different good reasons. |
|
