Head Coaches Discussion

[TC]

Nov 28, 2022 19:11:34 GMT -5 alleninxis said:

That's fine. Hire Jones or Langel and get on with it.

But for the university that re-hired Broadus and now spun the recruiting director at LSU to be your program savior - while several kids pursued *cough* other opportunities - I don't think they are above what they may want to portray.

Didn't we even pursue Kenny Johnson (Pitino's Louisville asssitant) this spring when we were hunting around for our guy to do whatever Nickelberry does?

[DudeSlade]

I've stayed away from posting on the board for much of the last couple years, because what good comes from getting riled up over our program right now? But I feel the need to be the voice against a sentiment that I can't comprehend in this thread:

I really, really, really don't want Rick Pitino. As an alum, I'll always love GU, but it might be the end of me supporting the team ever again.

I can't imagine a more desperate and detrimental hire that would signal that our program is done. We may have fallen on our face, but we have a chance to rectify that. And instead we would hire a tarred and feathered, corrupt, ethically compromised 70 year old (!!!!!!) coach whom the basketball landscape has passed by. This wasn't an oopsie or a one-time thing. The level of ethics issues at Louisville was especially egregious by even college basketball levels: www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/sports/pitino-louisville-scandals.html.

But forget the ethical considerations, he is 70 years old. Only a very small number of coaches have stayed in jobs past that age, let alone taking on rebuilding a program at that age. How do we expect him to have the energy or time needed to try to revitalize our program? There are 352 division 1 coaches and there are less than a handful over 70. We could try to hire any of them. It's going to take an awful lot to change the narrative of our program and an awful lot of energy to create the recruiting pipelines and an awful lot of charisma and enthusiasm to revitalize the fanbase, the students, the alumni, the ex-players, and the DC metro region. Pitino might have been a great tactician at one point, but is he doing anything today that is considered new, cutting edge, tactically innovative, or embracing the way the game is changing -- something that would excite potential recruits? How do we expect Pitino to stay up to speed on all of the complexities that NIL and the transfer portal have provided when more heralded peers of his (like Coach K) have found it too difficult and decided it's finally time to retire? So while the Pitino that went to Kentucky and maybe even the one who went to Louisville could have been a program leader and a top hire, it seems like a desperate attempt to stay relevant by reaching for a guy desperate to save his legacy that should have retired by now (or just stay at a small school where he can have nice successes).

Maybe I'm a delusional alum that thinks Georgetown is a better job than it is, but I'd still wager it's a top 25 job if handled right. It's at a top 25 institution, in one of the big 6 conferences, has a lot of historical success and national relevance, sits in one of the most fertile recruiting areas of the country, is paying it's coach a top 12 salary nationally (if the $3.95M reported by Hilltop Hoops is right, and the salary numbers for other coaches reported by various sports sites elsewhere are right), has the DC metro area as a source of fans, NIL opportunities, and as a playground for its players social lives, and a fanbase who despite everything the administration has done to try to starve us of energy is waiting for an opportunity to embrace the program again and bring the excitement back.

We should be looking for a coach who can capitalize on all of that. Not a desperate hail mary offer to a has-been with severe ethical issues.

My other rooting interest (since Gtown has no FBS football) has always been USC football. Many thought USC was over and could not be fully revitalized after far too many years of Clay Helton running the program into the ground. Fans clamored for the ethically compromised choice of Urban Meyer. Pundits thought they might be lucky to get Matt Campbell from Iowa or Luke Fickell from Cincinnati. Some even wondered why Kyle Whittingham would leave Utah for USC. But they had an AD and a board and football alums who didn't doubt what USC could be again and went out and made Lincoln Riley an offer he couldn't refuse and look what's already happening there?

We don't quite have USC football's legacy and DC is not quite the glitz and glamor of LaLaLand. But damn it, we are still quite a program. Or we could be. If our administration gave a damn or wasn't so impotent.

If a coalition of high profile sports-related past/present board members and alums like Mutombo, Mourning, Tagliabue, McCourt, Leonsis, and some more recent like Hibbert or Freeman or whomever showed up at the house of Scott Drew (or a similar level coach) and say hey, I know you're doing well here, but you've taken this as far as it can go in Waco and in the Big 12, and we can pay you a lot more than your $3.5M (we'd have to find a way to pony up a lot more just like USC did) and we can offer you all the advantages of DC and Georgetown... how long does he consider it? I'd imagine longer than most would think. I think some of the current Big 12 or Pac-12 schools could be especially vulnerable right now to losing coaches, given conference realignments about to happen with their biggest name universities, but if not Drew, is there another proven 30, 40, or 50 year old coach out there with a dynamic style of coaching and play and the energy and charisma to revitalize a fanbase that would take it? Address the money and the Thompson influence and someone with a high profile will find the job enticing.

I know that's not a given, and I love our history, but it is time we start looking forward as a program and a university. And if our current administration can't do that -- which DeGioia has not shown -- then it's time the board acted and we moved on.

If we can't go homerun swinging, then let's at least go for someone who could rebuild the program, not a hopeless retread like Pitino that smacks of desperation.

[DudeSlade]

I know this is also outside of this thread somewhat, but if we're looking to how to change our future, I would love to see a more forward-looking administration look to see what could be done to make the Big East a national basketball conference brand.

The original Big East was a bold game-changing institution that was ahead of its time. The Big 10 and the SEC are losing their regional focus and trying to be the nationally relevant sports brands, especially in football, but are doing it slowly. This will leave an opportunity for a coast-to-coast national basketball conference if someone wants to go for it and got the right teams involved. Something like 20 teams with 2 divisions -- current Big East as one division (or mostly) and then try to get Gonzaga to anchor the other western division. Secure the bag for the future just like the original Big East did with ESPN and becoming THE national basketball brand for a while. There's a lot more competition for sports media rights right now, thanks to tech companies like Amazon and Apple moving in and all the streamers. Apple just doubled MLS's pay for rights and Amazon forked over a fortune for NFL Thursday Night Football rights. I can tell you from the inside, that they aren't stopping there -- Amazon has a plan to go after every sports media rights that comes up for the next decade. How much would a coast-to-coast basketball brand be worth to them (especially if they can't get the NBA)?

Anyway, I'm not advocating for any one approach in this or the coaching situation, just advocating for big, bold thinking where we lead the charge as we did when the Big East started or when we had the foresight to hire Big John, instead of waiting for others to make the move or for our inevitable irrelevance.

[kghoya]

Nov 28, 2022 21:18:51 GMT -5 DudeSlade said:

I've stayed away from posting on the board for much of the last couple years, because what good comes from getting riled up over our program right now? But I feel the need to be the voice against a sentiment that I can't comprehend in this thread:

I really, really, really don't want Rick Pitino. As an alum, I'll always love GU, but it might be the end of me supporting the team ever again.

I can't imagine a more desperate and detrimental hire that would signal that our program is done. We may have fallen on our face, but we have a chance to rectify that. And instead we would hire a tarred and feathered, corrupt, ethically compromised 70 year old (!!!!!!) coach whom the basketball landscape has passed by. This wasn't an oopsie or a one-time thing. The level of ethics issues at Louisville was especially egregious by even college basketball levels: www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/sports/pitino-louisville-scandals.html.

But forget the ethical considerations, he is 70 years old. Only a very small number of coaches have stayed in jobs past that age, let alone taking on rebuilding a program at that age. How do we expect him to have the energy or time needed to try to revitalize our program? There are 352 division 1 coaches and there are less than a handful over 70. We could try to hire any of them. It's going to take an awful lot to change the narrative of our program and an awful lot of energy to create the recruiting pipelines and an awful lot of charisma and enthusiasm to revitalize the fanbase, the students, the alumni, the ex-players, and the DC metro region. Pitino might have been a great tactician at one point, but is he doing anything today that is considered new, cutting edge, tactically innovative, or embracing the way the game is changing -- something that would excite potential recruits? How do we expect Pitino to stay up to speed on all of the complexities that NIL and the transfer portal have provided when more heralded peers of his (like Coach K) have found it too difficult and decided it's finally time to retire? So while the Pitino that went to Kentucky and maybe even the one who went to Louisville could have been a program leader and a top hire, it seems like a desperate attempt to stay relevant by reaching for a guy desperate to save his legacy that should have retired by now (or just stay at a small school where he can have nice successes).

Maybe I'm a delusional alum that thinks Georgetown is a better job than it is, but I'd still wager it's a top 25 job if handled right. It's at a top 25 institution, in one of the big 6 conferences, has a lot of historical success and national relevance, sits in one of the most fertile recruiting areas of the country, is paying it's coach a top 12 salary nationally (if the $3.95M reported by Hilltop Hoops is right, and the salary numbers for other coaches reported by various sports sites elsewhere are right), has the DC metro area as a source of fans, NIL opportunities, and as a playground for its players social lives, and a fanbase who despite everything the administration has done to try to starve us of energy is waiting for an opportunity to embrace the program again and bring the excitement back.

We should be looking for a coach who can capitalize on all of that. Not a desperate hail mary offer to a has-been with severe ethical issues.

My other rooting interest (since Gtown has no FBS football) has always been USC football. Many thought USC was over and could not be fully revitalized after far too many years of Clay Helton running the program into the ground. Fans clamored for the ethically compromised choice of Urban Meyer. Pundits thought they might be lucky to get Matt Campbell from Iowa or Luke Fickell from Cincinnati. Some even wondered why Kyle Whittingham would leave Utah for USC. But they had an AD and a board and football alums who didn't doubt what USC could be again and went out and made Lincoln Riley an offer he couldn't refuse and look what's already happening there?

We don't quite have USC football's legacy and DC is not quite the glitz and glamor of LaLaLand. But damn it, we are still quite a program. Or we could be. If our administration gave a damn or wasn't so impotent.

If a coalition of high profile sports-related past/present board members and alums like Mutombo, Mourning, Tagliabue, McCourt, Leonsis, and some more recent like Hibbert or Freeman or whomever showed up at the house of Scott Drew (or a similar level coach) and say hey, I know you're doing well here, but you've taken this as far as it can go in Waco and in the Big 12, and we can pay you a lot more than your $3.5M (we'd have to find a way to pony up a lot more just like USC did) and we can offer you all the advantages of DC and Georgetown... how long does he consider it? I'd imagine longer than most would think. I think some of the current Big 12 or Pac-12 schools could be especially vulnerable right now to losing coaches, given conference realignments about to happen with their biggest name universities, but if not Drew, is there another proven 30, 40, or 50 year old coach out there with a dynamic style of coaching and play and the energy and charisma to revitalize a fanbase that would take it? Address the money and the Thompson influence and someone with a high profile will find the job enticing.

I know that's not a given, and I love our history, but it is time we start looking forward as a program and a university. And if our current administration can't do that -- which DeGioia has not shown -- then it's time the board acted and we moved on.

If we can't go homerun swinging, then let's at least go for someone who could rebuild the program, not a hopeless retread like Pitino that smacks of desperation.

How do you think USC got all those good transfers?

[alleninxis]

If you think Pitino has ethical issues, Scott Drew might make him blush.

Not here to debate his morals - I fully understand why some want no parts of him. I get it. I won't argue it, I just find some hypocrisy from the University if they're selective on who to give second chances to. But for the basketball part - a has been, a hopeless retread? He inherited an Iona team with a 9-11 MAAC record and a sub 200 KenPom ranking - to a MAAC conference tournament title, a regular season title, a NCAA birth and now into the Top 100 in KenPom in back to back seasons.

Is he throwing his fastball like it's 1996? Probably not, but he is the greatest coach of the modern era that's shown he has plenty in the tank and wants to be doing the job. This program does not need him well into his 70s - this program is desperate for a jolt in the arm and a 3-5 year rebound into relevance and you can proceed accordingly afterward. I would love to pry away a Nate Oats, but this program has sunk to a level in which I'm not sure it's as appealing as it was 5 years ago for those in established positions. Nor do I think they have the resources or will to deal with some of the needed contract demands or buy outs (which is a plus for Pitino, it would not be costly).

[hoyaguy]

Nov 28, 2022 21:18:51 GMT -5 DudeSlade said:

I've stayed away from posting on the board for much of the last couple years, because what good comes from getting riled up over our program right now? But I feel the need to be the voice against a sentiment that I can't comprehend in this thread:....

I shortened your response above to not clog up the thread length, but ok let's say Pitino is off the table. I cannot fathom a single concrete reason why Drew (or someone on his level) would go from a recent national champion Baylor (or contender if talking about someone similar) that he has built up for a such a long time, who is also in the process of building an amazing on campus arena, to join a program that has foundational problems in a conference, which as of right now, is faltering with its biggest star fading fast (I think Neptune can do it but it is not a good look right now and who knows how long Uconn sticks around if they get football together and get a decent offer). Also if any whiff of poaching him alerted Baylor (as other big schools with large bases), the boosters would get to work to increase his salary far beyond what we could afford (which I doubt we would be willing to buyout Ewing and then pay a new coach an even bigger salary). I think Pitino is likely a pipe dream anyway because of how this institution "works", but I think it is also a pipe dream to think some big donors are gonna come bailout the program and its moronic leaders especially when that ideally would have been done at the end of last season. Also there is the matter of Ronny who in my assessment will not be let go even if Ewing is, if JD is still in charge unless massive pressure is put or if the breakup is very bad. Also the BIG 12 is doing great, TCU might go to CFP (Cincinnati, a future member, went last year) and with the new teams joining, they are the best CBB conference in the country which would be completely uncontested if Gonzaga really did join. But sure why not go to a dumpster fire that is run like computers barely exist and has a toxic inner circle tainting it.

Also why would someone like Freeman or other recent grads even try to help the program? They've been alienated at every turn similar to the dwindling fans and student-fans

The recruiting hotbed thing has been discussed at length of being, I think, less relevant in this day and age but sure that can be the main if not only draw for a high end coach

And as another commenter noted, Drew has had multiple violations himself, can't slam Pitino without pointing out Drew's past also

Georgetown can be a top job but it would have to be under a different administration and program which does not seem like it is happening any time soon. So right now the only people who would really want it without making us pay 10 million is likely Pitino (who would take the full reigns if he came which makes him a good candidate), some mid major coaches, and maybe Mack. And trying to say Pitino is a has-been is such a joke, I am not a huge fan of the guy but he can coach unlike our current staff top to bottom

[bostonfan]

Nov 28, 2022 22:01:34 GMT -5 hoyaguy said:

Nov 28, 2022 21:18:51 GMT -5 DudeSlade said:

I've stayed away from posting on the board for much of the last couple years, because what good comes from getting riled up over our program right now? But I feel the need to be the voice against a sentiment that I can't comprehend in this thread:....

I shortened your response above to not clog up the thread length, but ok let's say Pitino is off the table. I cannot fathom a single concrete reason why Drew (or someone on his level) would go from a recent national champion Baylor (or contender if talking about someone similar) that he has built up for a such a long time, who is also in the process of building an amazing on campus arena, to join a program that has foundational problems in a conference, which as of right now, is faltering with its biggest star fading fast (I think Neptune can do it but it is not a good look right now and who knows how long Uconn sticks around if they get football together and get a decent offer). Also if any whiff of poaching him alerted Baylor (as other big schools with large bases), the boosters would get to work to increase his salary far beyond what we could afford (which I doubt we would be willing to buyout Ewing and then pay a new coach an even bigger salary). I think Pitino is likely a pipe dream anyway because of how this institution "works", but I think it is also a pipe dream to think some big donors are gonna come bailout the program and its moronic leaders especially when that ideally would have been done at the end of last season. Also there is the matter of Ronny who in my assessment will not be let go even if Ewing is, if JD is still in charge unless massive pressure is put or if the breakup is very bad. Also the BIG 12 is doing great, TCU might go to CFP (Cincinnati, a future member, went last year) and with the new teams joining, they are the best CBB conference in the country which would be completely uncontested if Gonzaga really did join. But sure why not go to a dumpster fire that is run like computers barely exist and has a toxic inner circle tainting it.

Also why would someone like Freeman or other recent grads even try to help the program? They've been alienated at every turn similar to the dwindling fans and student-fans

The recruiting hotbed thing has been discussed at length of being, I think, less relevant in this day and age but sure that can be the main if not only draw for a high end coach

And as another commenter noted, Drew has had multiple violations himself, can't slam Pitino without pointing out Drew's past also

Georgetown can be a top job but it would have to be under a different administration and program which does not seem like it is happening any time soon. So right now the only people who would really want it without making us pay 10 million is likely Pitino (who would take the full reigns if he came which makes him a good candidate), some mid major coaches, and maybe Mack. And trying to say Pitino is a has-been is such a joke, I am not a huge fan of the guy but he can coach unlike our current staff top to bottom

I don't disagree that Drew or Oates might not have any interest in the Georgetown job. But you don't know that until you ask. Maybe Drew is sick of living in Waco, Texas or Oates doesn't enjoy the life style in Alabama or a similar type of candidate is getting bored with his current situation and wants a new challenge. It seems like these types of inquires probably happen often and in most cases never become public knowledge. The school quietly approaches these guys with a "Would you have any interest?" question and if the answer is no, then they move along. I just think you need to at least check in with these types of coaches before settling on someone else.

As far as Pitino, I think it is hard to argue that he isn't a very good coach and program builder and would most likely have a lot of success at Georgetown. The ethical issues are a concern, but as has been mentioned, most of these high level coaches have a few skeletons in the closet, so the administration would need to be clear that his "behavior"would be closely monitored if he took the position and the school would have no tolerance for him doing anything that would embarrass the university. (some would say the record of last years team already embarrassed the university!!) My biggest concern with Pitino is really just his age. He is not going to coach that much longer so even if he has success, the school is going to have to do this again in 5-8 years. I also question if his style of coaching really resonates with the top level recruits these days, but I think winning resonates with everyone so maybe that is not an issue.

[Bigs"R"Us]

Ewing’s destruction of the GU brand is very real- empty arena, disengaged alumni, not invited to premier tournaments, record losses, etc. Yet, the administration doesn’t really care. 🤔

[CTHoya08]

I don't want to dismiss the ethical concerns about Pitino out of hand, but I want to take a minute to discuss the basketball angle alone.

I don't buy the argument that "the game has passed him by" or he's too old. He's turned a MAAC program--a MAAC program--into one whose teams now are at least in the at-large discussion during the season. I haven't taken any sort of deep dive into it, but I assume part of that is due to an ability to pull better-than-MAAC talent in by virtue of being Rick Pitino. But that's kind of the point--kids still do want to play for him. At Georgetown, he wouldn't enjoy that kind of name-recognition advantage over conference peers that he has at Iona, but he'd also be recruiting to Georgetown and the Big East.

As for his age and limited timeline, that can potentially be a plus. Yes, there is a non-zero chance that, knowing he's only going to be coaching for a few years, he bends and breaks some rules and then retires, leaving the program to reap what he has sown. But I don't think that's likely. At this point, I think he knows that he's a bit of a marked man and would want to avoid another scandal in his swan song. Plus, it's not like the current guy is upholding the GU ideals--how many of Ewing's recruits have actually made it to graduation?

Finally, I think that the best possible consequence of bringing in Pitino for a few years would be that it would allow a clean break and a real coaching search for the next hire (when the job would probably be more attractive to other potential big hires, because it would have some recent success). Does anyone really think that Rick Pitino would take direction from Ronny Thompson? Hiring Pitino would most likely mean 3-6 years of improvement on the court coupled with a liberation from whatever hold Ronny and his cronies have on the program. I'd have to think that a post-Pitino, Ronny-free Georgetown program (with all of the positives that are inherent to the job, e.g., DC location, Big East) would be very appealing to high-level candidates.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Nov 29, 2022 8:06:19 GMT -5 bostonfan said:

As far as Pitino, I think it is hard to argue that he isn't a very good coach and program builder and would most likely have a lot of success at Georgetown. The ethical issues are a concern, but as has been mentioned, most of these high level coaches have a few skeletons in the closet, so the administration would need to be clear that his "behavior"would be closely monitored if he took the position and the school would have no tolerance for him doing anything that would embarrass the university. (some would say the record of last years team already embarrassed the university!!) My biggest concern with Pitino is really just his age. He is not going to coach that much longer so even if he has success, the school is going to have to do this again in 5-8 years. I also question if his style of coaching really resonates with the top level recruits these days, but I think winning resonates with everyone so maybe that is not an issue.

From October, in this article:

Pitino, 70, is a member of the Naismith Hall of Fame. He left the door open he might coach somewhere else after Iona. In recent years he has been linked to openings at Maryland, Indiana, UNLV and St. John’s.

"“I want to coach for a long time, as long as my health stays the same,” he [Pitino] said. “I said I would love to finish my career at Iona but sometimes it just doesn’t work out. You just never know about the future. My intent is I love where I’m living, I love the school, I love my players even more than where I’m living and how much I love the school. You just never know.
“I really enjoyed the Euroleague, I had a great time there. Every place I’ve worked, I didn’t like the ending of Louisville, but every place I’ve worked was just fantastic and I’m enjoying right now. The players that I’m coaching right now are a terrific group and that’s what makes it so much fun.”"

* * *

We don't need Pitino to coach until he's 85, or even 80. We just need someone to put the program in the right place (not an easy task), so it can build on some succcess and recover from the current leadership. Also, yes he's not young, but by all accounts he's done a fantastic job at Iona. He still has it.

With the way Georgetown administration goes, we will almost certainly pass him over, he'll have massive success at Iona or somewhere else (since his Iona contract was not extended), and instead we will either keep the current course and be horrible, or hire some middling/mediocre candidate who improves on Ewing but also isn't great. With Pitino we'd have a real shot at being a contender, Final Fours, etc. Maybe I am worn down by the Ewing years, but in my mind, it's well worth it.

[TC]

Nov 28, 2022 21:18:51 GMT -5 DudeSlade said:

But forget the ethical considerations, he is 70 years old. Only a very small number of coaches have stayed in jobs past that age, let alone taking on rebuilding a program at that age. How do we expect him to have the energy or time needed to try to revitalize our program? There are 352 division 1 coaches and there are less than a handful over 70.

Counterpoint : hiring a Pitino - who is kinda term limited by age - might be the only scenario where the administration doesn't go shooting themselves in the foot by throwing extensions around to lock the coach in.

[prhoya]

Nov 29, 2022 9:47:51 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

I don't want to dismiss the ethical concerns about Pitino out of hand, but I want to take a minute to discuss the basketball angle alone.

I don't buy the argument that "the game has passed him by" or he's too old. He's turned a MAAC program--a MAAC program--into one whose teams now are at least in the at-large discussion during the season. I haven't taken any sort of deep dive into it, but I assume part of that is due to an ability to pull better-than-MAAC talent in by virtue of being Rick Pitino. But that's kind of the point--kids still do want to play for him. At Georgetown, he wouldn't enjoy that kind of name-recognition advantage over conference peers that he has at Iona, but he'd also be recruiting to Georgetown and the Big East.

As for his age and limited timeline, that can potentially be a plus. Yes, there is a non-zero chance that, knowing he's only going to be coaching for a few years, he bends and breaks some rules and then retires, leaving the program to reap what he has sown. But I don't think that's likely. At this point, I think he knows that he's a bit of a marked man and would want to avoid another scandal in his swan song. Plus, it's not like the current guy is upholding the GU ideals--how many of Ewing's recruits have actually made it to graduation?

Finally, I think that the best possible consequence of bringing in Pitino for a few years would be that it would allow a clean break and a real coaching search for the next hire (when the job would probably be more attractive to other potential big hires, because it would have some recent success). Does anyone really think that Rick Pitino would take direction from Ronny Thompson? Hiring Pitino would most likely mean 3-6 years of improvement on the court coupled with a liberation from whatever hold Ronny and his cronies have on the program. I'd have to think that a post-Pitino, Ronny-free Georgetown program (with all of the positives that are inherent to the job, e.g., DC location, Big East) would be very appealing to high-level candidates.

Well said. Unlike anyone else at GU, Pitino has been around a national coaching search or two. He could teach our administration how to do one. As to Ronny, I’m sure there’s enough $ to pay him an annual something to go and stay away.

[prhoya]

Nov 28, 2022 21:18:51 GMT -5 DudeSlade said:

But forget the ethical considerations, he is 70 years old. Only a very small number of coaches have stayed in jobs past that age, let alone taking on rebuilding a program at that age. How do we expect him to have the energy or time needed to try to revitalize our program? There are 352 division 1 coaches and there are less than a handful over 70.

As is, Pat is the second oldest coach in the BE. Still, one is one of the most successful coaches in the history of college basketball, while the other might be one of the worst college basketball coaches of his era. Pitino could right the ship and set its course for the future. No one has any idea what the Thompsons and Ewings have planned for the program, not even themselves probably, except keeping the business in the family.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Identity is key. Those who mentioned the DMV are correct. Our best teams have featured local (Bmore, DC, NOVA) talent complimented by national recruits. Look at Purdue. They get almost no top level Indiana talent but they get the guys that fit their system. They always have a Ivan Drago clone at center surrounded by shooters and players that play a smart brand of basketball. They have a Purdue guy coaching who followed a legend there. They haven't had great tourney success but they have been good despite getting IU's leftovers mainly.

Those Ewing teams had a lot of local talent. The Reggie Williams teams had local talent. The Iverson teams had local talent. The Freeman/Wright teams had local talent and the Otto Porter teams had local talent. Right now we have Heath/Murray/Bristol/Muresan who are local. None of those scholarship guys came here first. That may be the formula to follow in the future is to recruit those coming back to the area but try to sprinkle in at least one local guy as a freshman if it fits your needs. Right now we don't play our freshman or they get run off in year two so that isn't a sustainable model. You also can't recruit one and done guys that aren't complimentary to what you already have in place. We have never really had anything in place so bringing in an Aminu was great in theory but you can't then hand him the ball and expect him to go get W's on his own. The roster construction has always lacked long term vision with this staff and it started with the first roster Ewing had.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Nov 29, 2022 10:01:24 GMT -5 prhoya said:

As to Ronny, I’m sure there’s enough $ to pay him an annual something to go and stay away.

I just feel like DeGioia feels indebted to the Thompsons, and thus, will do nothing to break that link. I don't think it's even about paying Ronny, I think it's keeping that link to John Thompson. In any rational world you'd put someone like Ewing or Ronny in a figurehead emeritus role, with no real responsbility, but simply to keep the historical link. But that would be too sensible.

I know some people probably think this is petty, but if Ronny has any real control over the program, we might as well pack it in. He has no qualifications to run or manage a high-major program, and his stint at Ball State proves that. His role is pure patronage. No other program would hire him to do be in even a chief of staff role, never mind anything with greater influence than that (and to be fair, we don't know the scope of his role, though he was linked to the effort to find Ewing new assistants).

The program needs to be operated by someone who knows what they are doing. The current results are not at all surprising given the leadership. In retrospect, the 2017 hiring of Ewing was a huge gamble that could have paid off, but simply did not. We cannot afford to take another long shot, if/when the time comes to do so.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Nov 29, 2022 10:01:24 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Nov 29, 2022 9:47:51 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

I don't want to dismiss the ethical concerns about Pitino out of hand, but I want to take a minute to discuss the basketball angle alone.

I don't buy the argument that "the game has passed him by" or he's too old. He's turned a MAAC program--a MAAC program--into one whose teams now are at least in the at-large discussion during the season. I haven't taken any sort of deep dive into it, but I assume part of that is due to an ability to pull better-than-MAAC talent in by virtue of being Rick Pitino. But that's kind of the point--kids still do want to play for him. At Georgetown, he wouldn't enjoy that kind of name-recognition advantage over conference peers that he has at Iona, but he'd also be recruiting to Georgetown and the Big East.

As for his age and limited timeline, that can potentially be a plus. Yes, there is a non-zero chance that, knowing he's only going to be coaching for a few years, he bends and breaks some rules and then retires, leaving the program to reap what he has sown. But I don't think that's likely. At this point, I think he knows that he's a bit of a marked man and would want to avoid another scandal in his swan song. Plus, it's not like the current guy is upholding the GU ideals--how many of Ewing's recruits have actually made it to graduation?

Finally, I think that the best possible consequence of bringing in Pitino for a few years would be that it would allow a clean break and a real coaching search for the next hire (when the job would probably be more attractive to other potential big hires, because it would have some recent success). Does anyone really think that Rick Pitino would take direction from Ronny Thompson? Hiring Pitino would most likely mean 3-6 years of improvement on the court coupled with a liberation from whatever hold Ronny and his cronies have on the program. I'd have to think that a post-Pitino, Ronny-free Georgetown program (with all of the positives that are inherent to the job, e.g., DC location, Big East) would be very appealing to high-level candidates.

Well said. Unlike anyone else at GU, Pitino has been around a national coaching search or two. He could teach our administration how to do one. As to Ronny, I’m sure there’s enough $ to pay him an annual something to go and stay away.

Why pay Ronny anything? He hasn't been successful at his job. The University isn't an annuity for the Thompsons and although Ronny is a GU grad, he isn't owed anything by the school or its donors.

[prhoya]

Nov 29, 2022 10:12:52 GMT -5 ColumbiaHeightsHoya said:

Nov 29, 2022 10:01:24 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Well said. Unlike anyone else at GU, Pitino has been around a national coaching search or two. He could teach our administration how to do one. As to Ronny, I’m sure there’s enough $ to pay him an annual something to go and stay away.

Why pay Ronny anything? He hasn't been successful at his job. The University isn't an annuity for the Thompsons and although Ronny is a GU grad, he isn't owed anything by the school or its donors.

I agree with you, but it looks like Jack D. doesn’t want to touch that with a ten-foot pole. Instead of doing what everyone knows he has to do, that might be a chicken poop way out for Jack.

[RBHoya]

Re: Ronny, this it total baseless speculation on my part, but I've always felt that DeGioia is afraid of doing anything that might anger the Thompsons. Remember what Ronny and JT2 did at Ball State when they cut bait on Ronny? I think DeGioia is afraid of that happening to him, and that the Thompsons might come out and start to lob accusations at Georgetown or DeGioia. For that reason, when we reached a pretty difficult point with JT3, we reached sort of a compromise solution by dismissing one Thompson son, hiring another into a prominent position (which he can half ass do between his A-10 tv gigs, and which we won't publicly acknowledge for years because it's obviously ridiculous and embarrassing) and we'll hire a new coach who was like a son to JT2, even if they're not blood. That was a path to getting out of the JT3 situation (which was getting ugly near the end) without, god forbid, ruffling any Thompson feathers and while still keeping JT2 generally satisfied. To what extent the dynamic changes now that JT2 has passed, I'm not sure. But if I had to bet I'd guess that DeGioia is still scared that if he runs off Ronny that Ronny will dust off his Ball State script, and given that the Thompsons probably know where many of the metaphorical bodies are buried, it might get ugly for Georgetown and DeGioia.

As far as Pitino goes, I said yesterday that it's probably not worth much thought or discussion given that it's a hire that would take a lot of guts and I'm pretty sure Jack DeGioia ain't that guy. But as a hypothetical, I think that if you can put aside the ethical concerns (which I get that some people can't, and reasonable people can disagree on that) he's basically the perfect hire. After the last 9 years or so, especially the last couple, the program is a total mess. We really can't afford for our next hire to flounder for another 4 years, because by that time any vestiges of our once proud program will be long forgotten. Basically, if at all possible, we need a sure thing. And how often do you have a chance to hire a Hall of Fame coach at a reasonable price who would be happy to take our job? I disagree with any talk of Pitino being a has-been, he's still doing great at Iona. Yes, he is old, but that's ok. If we can get a coach to come here for 5 years and right the ship and make us RELEVANT again, that's perfect. Maybe he hires an Associate Head Coach who takes the reigns when he retires, or worst case we need to do another coaching search, but at that point we're doing it from a much stronger position. Either way, he's the surest bet by far to bring us back to national relevance, which is exactly what we need. There are some solid candidates out there in the mid-major ranks, and there are some high ceiling options elsewhere. But ALL of them carry significantly more risk than Pitino in a strictly basketball sense. I mean it can't even be compared, a HOF former national champion versus guys like McCasland or J. Jones who you're hoping will translate at a much higher level, or Mike Jones who has never even run a college program. It's night and day. I'd much rather have 5 or 6 years of the sure thing than rolling the dice. But as mentioned, I think it's all hypothetical because I do not believe DeGioia/Georgetown have the right disposition to even seriously consider such a hire.

[hoyaguy]

If Mack was asked/offered in 2017 but said no, does that burn that bridge from an admin pov?

[SSHoya]

Nov 29, 2022 14:21:46 GMT -5 hoyaguy said:

If Mack was asked/offered in 2017 but said no, does that burn that bridge from an admin pov?

Mack just sold his house and bought another one in the Louisville area. He's getting $133k per month until Jan. 2025! Why work?

After being suspended by U of L for the first six games of the 2021-2022 basketball season over his handling of an extortion case involving former assistant coach Dino Gaudio, Mack and the university reached a separation agreement. He will be paid $133,333.33 monthly through January 2025 under that deal.

www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2022/08/05/chris-mack-former-xavier-coach-sells-kentucky-mansion-millions/10245442002/