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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Jul 2, 2024 18:30:10 GMT -5
As the world turns...
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 2, 2024 20:14:49 GMT -5
The narrative that the “money is going to dry up” looks to be false…
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jul 7, 2024 12:49:00 GMT -5
The narrative that the “money is going to dry up” looks to be false… Barring a situation where schools pay players as employees, I do not see NIL drying up. There is just too much demand. That said, I do think at some point there will be a plateau. But it's unclear if we are even remotely close to that point yet, as it grew hugely from 2023 to 2024.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 7, 2024 17:42:13 GMT -5
The narrative that the “money is going to dry up” looks to be false… Barring a situation where schools pay players as employees, I do not see NIL drying up. There is just too much demand. That said, I do think at some point there will be a plateau. But it's unclear if we are even remotely close to that point yet, as it grew hugely from 2023 to 2024. I think we need to distinguish from "brand" NIL and "collective NIL. In either case, the Georgetown situation is wholly foreign from the schools cited in this survey: 1. Most collectives are driven by football (72 percent of disbursements according to a study last week). By contrast, if Hoyas Rising gave $125K to a quarterback, I think there may be a fair amount of shock and pushback on this. That's not a problem right now, because Hoyas Rising isn't funding football. In its February 2024 report, it identified fostering 46 NIL transactions out of a base of 230 interested student-athletes, or roughly a third of the total population. Of Hoyas Rising's gifts, just 15 went to men. The basketball roster in the fall of 2023 was... 15 men. 2. A broad based collective can be more agile in support: a good year for Duke basketball, for example, can help lift the boat for collective support for other sports. Georgetown's collective NIL appears to be simply basketball focused without (yet) a broad base of support-- even Hoyas Rising recognizes this, noting that "the GU donor community is energized, but in pockets." It also noted that "in the not too distant future there us a need for more commercial support by the DMV community for these efforts to be sustainable...simply put, without robust financial support this project fails.” A relatively small number of donors are carrying the weight for a relatively small number of players--if some of them decide that it's not a good use of their spend, Ed Cooley feels it directly. Thus, the "Georgetown has the largest bag" online chatter does it a great disservice with transfers asking for much, much more than what was realistic. And if Cooley asks for more time to turn the corner in 2025-26 or beyond, that's more pressure on a limited number of donors to keep the giving afloat.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Jul 9, 2024 10:17:46 GMT -5
"By contrast, if Hoyas Rising gave $125K to a quarterback, I think there may be a fair amount of shock and pushback on this."
Shock and pushback from whom? Georgetown football isn't a headline sport, but who would actually be "shocked" and "push back" at the collective's choice to spend its money as it sees fit? Presumably it wouldn't start spending on football unless someone within the collective (i.e., one of the donors) wants to spend money on football, so it isn't a case of the collective spending other people's money haphazardly.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 9, 2024 12:10:14 GMT -5
Shock and pushback from whom? Georgetown football isn't a headline sport, but who would actually be "shocked" and "push back" at the collective's choice to spend its money as it sees fit? Presumably it wouldn't start spending on football unless someone within the collective (i.e., one of the donors) wants to spend money on football, so it isn't a case of the collective spending other people's money haphazardly. It's an example I've used before: if an NIL deal steered some recruit from an Auburn to Georgetown, how would that be seen among the rank and file alumni and faculty? Would they be OK with it, or does the soft bigotry of low expectations suggest that Georgetown should not be associating with those recruits in the first place? The money is less the issue than the argument (FWIW, a quarterback recruit this year is reportedly getting $600K from Auburn). Most Georgetown alumni have little or no knowledge of NIL and many may not even be aware it participates in it. But does, or should, NIL be restricted to "headline" sports? The pushback is when someone asks why that money isn't being directed to basketball in the first place. The "ethos and culture" argument at Georgetown says it's OK to arrange an NIL deal with a power forward, but not a quarterback, a sprinter, or a goal keeper, because that's not what we are about.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 9, 2024 13:08:49 GMT -5
Shock and pushback from whom? Georgetown football isn't a headline sport, but who would actually be "shocked" and "push back" at the collective's choice to spend its money as it sees fit? Presumably it wouldn't start spending on football unless someone within the collective (i.e., one of the donors) wants to spend money on football, so it isn't a case of the collective spending other people's money haphazardly. It's an example I've used before: if an NIL deal steered some recruit from an Auburn to Georgetown, how would that be seen among the rank and file alumni and faculty? Would they be OK with it, or does the soft bigotry of low expectations suggest that Georgetown should not be associating with those recruits in the first place? The money is less the issue than the argument (FWIW, a quarterback recruit this year is reportedly getting $600K from Auburn). Most Georgetown alumni have little or no knowledge of NIL and many may not even be aware it participates in it. But does, or should, NIL be restricted to "headline" sports? The pushback is when someone asks why that money isn't being directed to basketball in the first place. The "ethos and culture" argument at Georgetown says it's OK to arrange an NIL deal with a power forward, but not a quarterback, a sprinter, or a goal keeper, because that's not what we are about.Isn't Gtown a Top 20 soccer program? Doesn't the track program have athletes who can hold their own with the best in the country? The "ethos & culture" at Gtown needs to change, it's really holding the athletic department back.
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hoyas315
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Post by hoyas315 on Jul 16, 2024 6:08:36 GMT -5
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jul 16, 2024 10:28:41 GMT -5
Makes perfect sense. Why take a chance on a high school kid? If he's good he will transfer and if he stinks you're stuck with him. Better to get a proven college player.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 16, 2024 11:09:19 GMT -5
Makes perfect sense. Why take a chance on a high school kid? If he's good he will transfer and if he stinks you're stuck with him. Better to get a proven college player. The best team in the BE over the past 2 seasons has nine HS players on its roster. The 2nd best team in that time has 13 HS players The 3rd best team has 6 I fully understand how important the portal is but for non BB or big money programs, success has to be built on retention & development. Kids who are made to feel valued & a part of something have a better chance of sticking around
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 16, 2024 13:46:26 GMT -5
This quote from the St. Joseph's coach in the article is one Cooley & staff should hang their hats on. "I believe we play a high level of basketball, so I am constantly preaching and messaging that -- and we have a reasonably competitive collective [for NIL]," Lange said. "[So my players] realize they can maybe make some more money at some [other] places but that it may not mean it's better for them.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 2, 2024 13:45:04 GMT -5
If the quoted sports lawyer is correct in his assessment, Georgetown is not well-equipped for the future given its typical caution and/or lack of initiative. The Howard University men’s basketball team is for sale. Or at least Kenny Blakeney, the Bison’s head coach, is saying as much to potential investors. As part of a wide-ranging proposal that has not been previously reported, he is seeking $100 million for a 33 percent stake in his program. In an era of change, in an effort to be on the right side of extreme stratification, he’s going for it. “College athletics is full-fledged business now,” Blakeney said in a July interview. “The whole idea is to not get left behind. It’s, ‘How do we include ourselves in this?’ “I don’t want to have a two-tiered system where we’re not able to compete for the NCAA tournament or the national championship. And from what I’m hearing right now, that is a real possibility, that there’s going to be an NCAA tournament that isn’t going to include everyone else, it’s just going to include those Power Four [conference] universities and maybe the Big East. That’s not what I signed up for.” So Blakeney is pitching Howard to both private equity groups and other potential investors. He met with a private equity firm in June. In mid-July, he flew to Las Vegas for a charity golf outing and talked with private equity investors — plus some other rich folks — on the course. His business plan is long and layered. The main thrust, though, is that Blakeney needs that initial $100 million to upgrade Howard’s arena and roster. From there, he would want Howard to go independent, allowing it to find its own television deal (think Notre Dame) or join a bigger conference as an affiliate school (think the Big East, which Blakeney mentions throughout his written proposal). And is this within NCAA rules? The short answer is that, at the moment, Blakeney doesn’t care. Or as one sports economist, granted anonymity to speak about a deal he isn’t involved with, put it: “There are always ways to get lawyers to write around issues.” “You have to be aggressive if you want to position yourself well for the future,” said Mit Winter, a Kansas City-based college sports lawyer who has worked with schools, athletes and donor-funded name, image and likeness (NIL) collectives. “There is a lot of uncertainty right now, not just legally but with what the structure of college athletics is going to look like. So if you’re sitting back and waiting to see, you’re probably going to be caught off guard when it does settle. You have to start that preparation now.”
Blakeney is also open to collective bargaining with his players, writing in his business plan: “The formation of a players union could be considered to safeguard the interests of the athletes. These unions would negotiate on behalf of the players for better NIL deals, health benefits, and working conditions. They would also play a role in ensuring that players are fairly compensated and protected against exploitation.” www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/08/02/howard-basketball-private-equity/
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 2, 2024 15:10:16 GMT -5
If the quoted sports lawyer is correct in his assessment, Georgetown is not well-equipped for the future given its typical caution and/or lack of initiative. “I don’t want to have a two-tiered system where we’re not able to compete for the NCAA tournament or the national championship. And from what I’m hearing right now, that is a real possibility, that there’s going to be an NCAA tournament that isn’t going to include everyone else, it’s just going to include those Power Four [conference] universities and maybe the Big East. That’s not what I signed up for.” I read the opposite from what you just posted.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 2, 2024 15:24:06 GMT -5
If the quoted sports lawyer is correct in his assessment, Georgetown is not well-equipped for the future given its typical caution and/or lack of initiative. “I don’t want to have a two-tiered system where we’re not able to compete for the NCAA tournament or the national championship. And from what I’m hearing right now, that is a real possibility, that there’s going to be an NCAA tournament that isn’t going to include everyone else, it’s just going to include those Power Four [conference] universities and maybe the Big East. That’s not what I signed up for.” I read the opposite from what you just posted. Sure, that's a possibility that it could be as Blakeney stated but not necessarily. I see Georgetown in a state of flux with potentially a new President soon (I'm not speculating on DeGioia's health) and whether the commitment to DI basketball survives as it has in the past is an open question. Just my opinion. The program needs to quickly improve in this uncertain landscape otherwise there will be no fan base except old guys like me. To be clear, even if it's P4 + Big East, is Georgetown prepared to be successful in that configuration or just a bottom feeder there?
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 2, 2024 17:26:46 GMT -5
I read the opposite from what you just posted. Sure, that's a possibility that it could be as Blakeney stated but not necessarily. I see Georgetown in a state of flux with potentially a new President soon (I'm not speculating on DeGioia's health) and whether the commitment to DI basketball survives as it has in the past is an open question. It's also possible that we get someone who runs the program more responsibly and with more accountability than DeGioia has for the past 22 years.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 2, 2024 17:29:35 GMT -5
Oh brave new world that has such programs in it
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 2, 2024 18:24:29 GMT -5
Sure, that's a possibility that it could be as Blakeney stated but not necessarily. I see Georgetown in a state of flux with potentially a new President soon (I'm not speculating on DeGioia's health) and whether the commitment to DI basketball survives as it has in the past is an open question. It's also possible that we get someone who runs the program more responsibly and with more accountability than DeGioia has for the past 22 years. I consider that a possibility but given the direction of collegiate sports I am a bit of a pessimist. We shall see.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Aug 4, 2024 15:18:24 GMT -5
Shock and pushback from whom? Georgetown football isn't a headline sport, but who would actually be "shocked" and "push back" at the collective's choice to spend its money as it sees fit? Presumably it wouldn't start spending on football unless someone within the collective (i.e., one of the donors) wants to spend money on football, so it isn't a case of the collective spending other people's money haphazardly. It's an example I've used before: if an NIL deal steered some recruit from an Auburn to Georgetown, how would that be seen among the rank and file alumni and faculty? Would they be OK with it, or does the soft bigotry of low expectations suggest that Georgetown should not be associating with those recruits in the first place? The money is less the issue than the argument (FWIW, a quarterback recruit this year is reportedly getting $600K from Auburn). Most Georgetown alumni have little or no knowledge of NIL and many may not even be aware it participates in it. But does, or should, NIL be restricted to "headline" sports? The pushback is when someone asks why that money isn't being directed to basketball in the first place. The "ethos and culture" argument at Georgetown says it's OK to arrange an NIL deal with a power forward, but not a quarterback, a sprinter, or a goal keeper, because that's not what we are about. Insofar as, per the stats you cited, only 15 NIL payments went to men, I'm guessing at least a couple of the others went to women who are sprinters or goalkeepers or something along those lines. It wasn't just the women's basketball players. Which is to say: the "ethos and culture" is not against paying athletes in non-basketball sports... but there is a strong disinclination to get on the football-for-pay train because of all the perceived baggage of football specifically. Whether that's fair or not is an argument we can keep having until the heat death of the universe over on the football board. If Coach T were to bring in a platoon of arms and bats and have every business within a mile of Capital One Park sponsoring them (the Hoyas' pitching battery...sponsored by Raytheon!), no one would bat an eyelash.
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Post by bearsandbulls on Aug 4, 2024 21:25:07 GMT -5
So in that Mark Fox has moved on after a one year fellow coaches gift by G'town, can anyone post anything he did for the NIL program that was any better than his coaching of a 3-28 Cal team the year before.....C'mon folks, I was gored for so commenting a year ago, and now a year goes by. The man did not like NIL and was appointed our NIL go to man. Help. What am I missing here? MF was a helping a fellow fired coach hire, simple as that....Sorry for Georgetown.
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 4, 2024 22:31:44 GMT -5
So in that Mark Fox has moved on after a one year fellow coaches gift by G'town, can anyone post anything he did for the NIL program that was any better than his coaching of a 3-28 Cal team the year before.....C'mon folks, I was gored for so commenting a year ago, and now a year goes by. The man did not like NIL and was appointed our NIL go to man. Help. What am I missing here? MF was a helping a fellow fired coach hire, simple as that....Sorry for Georgetown. Good lord, move on. Mark Fox did.
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