DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 21, 2024 23:06:13 GMT -5
I think saying "Georgetown wants to win in every sport it fields" is not really the right question. Of course, nearly every sports team in any competitive context wants to win. After all, that's the whole purpose of competitive sports. Does Georgetown "want" to win at football? Sure. But that's not the right question. Does Georgetown put its football program in a position where winning is possible given that it won't give full scholarships in a conference where other team do? No. And to me, that's Georgetown admitting it is in a position where it cannot win. Thus, I think at least for football, Georgetown may "want" to win but more importantly, it is not willing to make the investment to make that possible. As noted above, it's a Rubik's cube. As I tell those Lehigh or Holy Cross fans who ask, "well why don't you just add 60 scholarships", I answer that with 60 football scholarships, Georgetown becomes...Bucknell, and that's not a return on investment. For a laundry list of reasons, sixty scholarships doesn't make Georgetown a national contender, doesn't put 15,000 in the stands, and doesn't bring natural advantages that a Montana or North Dakota State doesn't have. That's doesn't mean they can't win but it's not the priority of a fixed budget, much like Georgetown golf will never be the program as it is at Stanford or Florida. Secondarily, there is an institutional bias that football scholarships ae inherently non-academic in pursuit and thus the football program is positioned as an Ivy League program even if the Ivies don't associate with Georgetown. There's a sweet spot in some sports which are suited to Georgetown's location and/or its reputation, such as lacrosse, rowing, and a tradition of long distance runners (but not sprints or field). Basketball still has a reputation "add" and a ROI which the University is willing to spend to get.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on May 22, 2024 5:18:36 GMT -5
The Wild West. Georgia QB sues Florida Coach Billy Napier over failed NIL deal Former University of Florida recruit Jaden Rashada sued football coach Billy Napier, a millionaire donor and others Tuesday, claiming they lured him into abandoning a commitment to rival Miami last year with the promise of a $13.85 million payday that never materialized. Rashada, now a quarterback for Georgia, claims in the lawsuit filed in federal court in Pensacola that UF donor Hugh Hathcock promised him the massive payday, including a $500,000 signing bonus, and that Napier and another UF official pressured him to commit to the university with promises he would be immediately financially set for life. According to the lawsuit, Hathcock even suggested he could secure Rashada’s father a job. In an interview, Hardin said Rashada’s lawsuit was intended as a cautionary tale of what happens when university athletic officials and the boosters who surround them recruit elite athletes with little to no guardrails. “The big goal here is to shine daylight into what’s really going on here for people to decide,” Hardin said, “Are we so bothered by what’s going on here that we’re willing to take some action?” www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/05/21/jaden-rashada-florida-napier-lawsuit/
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 22, 2024 11:35:50 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 22, 2024 13:00:30 GMT -5
Is anybody familiar enough with this situation to know the power dynamics? In other words, are the big conferences sufficiently in control that they can force these nonsense settlements on all the other conferences to enrich themselves, and leave the smaller conferences paying their debts?
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 22, 2024 13:01:40 GMT -5
Is anybody familiar enough with this situation to know the power dynamics? In other words, are the big conferences sufficiently in control that they can force these nonsense settlements on all the other conferences to enrich themselves, and leave the smaller conferences paying their debts? Yes, the big conferences/programs are in total control. If the NCAA/smaller conferences fight on this, the bigger programs/conferences will just leave the NCAA and form their own league.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 22, 2024 14:58:55 GMT -5
Is anybody familiar enough with this situation to know the power dynamics? In other words, are the big conferences sufficiently in control that they can force these nonsense settlements on all the other conferences to enrich themselves, and leave the smaller conferences paying their debts? Yes, the big conferences/programs are in total control. If the NCAA/smaller conferences fight on this, the bigger programs/conferences will just leave the NCAA and form their own league. That seems to be where this is headed anyway. The NCAA may be beyond the point of no return. If that happens, it will be a shame, as it will destroy the NCAA tournament, one of the best sporting events out there.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 22, 2024 15:37:07 GMT -5
Yes, the big conferences/programs are in total control. If the NCAA/smaller conferences fight on this, the bigger programs/conferences will just leave the NCAA and form their own league. That seems to be where this is headed anyway. The NCAA may be beyond the point of no return. If that happens, it will be a shame, as it will destroy the NCAA tournament, one of the best sporting events out there. Super conferences will only work for football and only because the bowls aren't run by the NCAA. The smaller conferences should call their bluff on this payment issue.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 22, 2024 15:44:44 GMT -5
That seems to be where this is headed anyway. The NCAA may be beyond the point of no return. If that happens, it will be a shame, as it will destroy the NCAA tournament, one of the best sporting events out there. Super conferences will only work for football and only because the bowls aren't run by the NCAA. The smaller conferences should call their bluff on this payment issue. In some circles, I think there is a sense that if the super conferences got together they could just do their own tournament. I think there would be far less interest in that, and it would be a lot less interesting to me, certainly. The smaller conferences being present is what creates the Cinderellas and captures the interest of casual/non-regular fans every March. In an ideal world, decades ago football would have been severed from the NCAA and done its own separate thing, outside the conference structure that applies to every other sport. Football has really been a destructive force to everything that isn't football, destroying traditions (including in football), conference rivalries, and shaking up the landscape. Of course, the problem with football is that it feeds on itself. Breaking away would have some benefits for the power conferences in football. But then what about a conference like the ACC with some really bad football teams? Eventually, the SEC/BIG10/BIG12's of the world aren't going to want to have equal shares with the teams that are horrible and lack the same level of interest and money. That is why I always say the Big East should not expand unless great opportunities exist. You never know when some big time basketball programs associated with weaker football programs might be tossed aside. I don't think this is imminent, and it may never happen, but it also wouldn't shock me at all if something like that happened in the next decade or so. On the other side, I think expanding the tournament so the Power conferences can get almost all their teams into the tournament is also a bad idea.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 22, 2024 15:45:06 GMT -5
"Help could be on the way for athletic departments who are cash strapped and it’s in the form of private equity. There are private equity firms campaigning to infuse millions of dollars to those who could be struggling, especially once the pending House vs. NCAA settlement is resolved. According to Yahoo Sports’ Ross Dellenger, Drew Weatherford and his equity firm have met with around 50 FBS programs, with the intention to help infuse instant cash into their programs... Weatherford expressed concern for the future of college athletics with an expected new revenue sharing model, which is on the brink of being approved across college athletics. “We are in the late stages of the competitive divide between athletic departments and programs,” Weatherford said in a release. “The impact of conference re-alignment, diverging media rights deals, and the advent of NIL and revenue sharing is creating a greater financial divide at both the university and conference level. History has proven that the universities that adeptly invest in their athletic departments consistently win and outpace peer institutions... “While the NCAA and schools will pay $2.8 billion in back damages, they have also agreed to a future player revenue-sharing model with a quasi-salary cap of as much as $22 million annually per school,” Dellenger wrote. “Most power conference leaders are expecting to spend as much as $30 million in new revenue annually when considering the revenue-sharing cap, plus a reduction in NCAA distribution for the back damages and the addition of new scholarships in a model that, to some degree, removes financial aid limitations.”... “As part of the Collegiate Athletics Solutions platform, Weatherford and Cardinale are seeking five to 10 programs to invest in as little as $50 million and as much as $200 million,” Dellenger wrote in his report. “They are in ‘deep conversations’ with a ‘handful’ of programs, though Weatherford declined to identify or discuss specific schools... “If you want to compete at this level, private equity and capital is really important,” one athletic director told Yahoo Sports. “I’ve been talking to these people for 10-12 months. I haven’t pulled the trigger. But is this what you are going to need to be successful and survive? Yes, it is.” www.on3.com/news/private-equity-firms-drew-weatherford-infuse-millions-into-cash-strapped-athletic-departments-revenue-sharing-college-football/
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Massholya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Massholya on May 23, 2024 7:20:05 GMT -5
I would not invest in a private equity group that got involved in this mess. I think these big schools are over estimating the durability of people’s interest in footballl. Setting aside the idea that people will maintain the same interest in some superleague, I just don’t think the upcoming generations will have the same support level in the future that these schools have enjoyed in the past. I just don’t think people are as passionate about football as they used to be and I think the erosion of interest will continue. Now I don’t live in Alabama so maybe I have a distorted view but that’s not where I’d want to put my money.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 23, 2024 7:23:04 GMT -5
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Post by RockawayHoya on May 23, 2024 10:51:30 GMT -5
Biggest takeaways I got from this and other articles I've read, along with questions, are: Agreeing to any settlement today won't prevent any future lawsuits (other players, inevitable Title IX issues that result from paying mostly P5 football and MBB players). Which is kind of the whole point of settlements, right? The NCAA is only footing $1.2B, or ~40% of the total proposed $2.8B settlement. Why are they not on the hook for everything since it was their amateurism rules that everyone was forced to follow and caused this whole mess to begin with? Why are Val and non P5 friends proposing a 60/40 split (vs. 40/60 in favor of the P5 conferences) in footing the remaining $1.6B? Personally, if I don't have P5 football, I'm not agreeing to any deal where I have to contribute to paying a pool of former players that primarily consist of P5 football players. Yes, there is a MBB component, but I would assume the P5 CFB payouts dwarf the total MBB payouts. There are likely legal avenues both Georgetown as an institution and the BE as a conference can take to challenge any settlement. I would absolutely expect us to go down this route, especially considering the legal capital we have. Should the proposed settlement somehow be enforced, I think you'll see a lot of the smaller schools / conferences start to disband programs and potentially even athletics entirely and leave the NCAA. The BE is already potentially on the hook for $70M before factoring in legal fees and other potential lawsuits. Not sure how the mid/low-majors are going to be able to afford the bill to pay P5 football players that they never derived one ounce of benefit from at any point. Where is Jack on all of this? Isn't he still somehow directly involved with the NCAA? I have no faith in him or his ability to actually influence anything that would result in a more positive outcome for Georgetown, but still curious. There is a decent chance that college athletics will cease to exist entirely in the next 10 years, minus some 30-team minor-league football league masquerading as college athletics. Sad that they let it spiral out of control like this.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on May 23, 2024 11:38:00 GMT -5
I think saying "Georgetown wants to win in every sport it fields" is not really the right question. Of course, nearly every sports team in any competitive context wants to win. After all, that's the whole purpose of competitive sports. Does Georgetown "want" to win at football? Sure. But that's not the right question. Does Georgetown put its football program in a position where winning is possible given that it won't give full scholarships in a conference where other team do? No. And to me, that's Georgetown admitting it is in a position where it cannot win. Thus, I think at least for football, Georgetown may "want" to win but more importantly, it is not willing to make the investment to make that possible. As noted above, it's a Rubik's cube. As I tell those Lehigh or Holy Cross fans who ask, "well why don't you just add 60 scholarships", I answer that with 60 football scholarships, Georgetown becomes...Bucknell, and that's not a return on investment. For a laundry list of reasons, sixty scholarships doesn't make Georgetown a national contender, doesn't put 15,000 in the stands, and doesn't bring natural advantages that a Montana or North Dakota State doesn't have. That's doesn't mean they can't win but it's not the priority of a fixed budget, much like Georgetown golf will never be the program as it is at Stanford or Florida. Secondarily, there is an institutional bias that football scholarships ae inherently non-academic in pursuit and thus the football program is positioned as an Ivy League program even if the Ivies don't associate with Georgetown. There's a sweet spot in some sports which are suited to Georgetown's location and/or its reputation, such as lacrosse, rowing, and a tradition of long distance runners (but not sprints or field). Basketball still has a reputation "add" and a ROI which the University is willing to spend to get. The context and structure does evolve over time. Alton McKenzie is a sprinter. And so you see, for example, the winner of the 200m on the men's side in the 2024 Big East Indoor was the Hoyas' Joshua Paige. Georgetown took second in the 4x400m. Meanwhile, the 800m is the classic 'middle distance' - neither sprint nor long distance. The Hoya men took 2, 3, 4, and 5 in the individual and the gold in the 4x800m team. On the women's side, the Hoyas took 1, 2, and 5 in the 200m, as well as 2 and 5 in the 400m. They took second in the 4x400m and 4x800.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on May 23, 2024 16:09:44 GMT -5
As noted above, it's a Rubik's cube. As I tell those Lehigh or Holy Cross fans who ask, "well why don't you just add 60 scholarships", I answer that with 60 football scholarships, Georgetown becomes...Bucknell, and that's not a return on investment. For a laundry list of reasons, sixty scholarships doesn't make Georgetown a national contender, doesn't put 15,000 in the stands, and doesn't bring natural advantages that a Montana or North Dakota State doesn't have. That's doesn't mean they can't win but it's not the priority of a fixed budget, much like Georgetown golf will never be the program as it is at Stanford or Florida. Secondarily, there is an institutional bias that football scholarships ae inherently non-academic in pursuit and thus the football program is positioned as an Ivy League program even if the Ivies don't associate with Georgetown. There's a sweet spot in some sports which are suited to Georgetown's location and/or its reputation, such as lacrosse, rowing, and a tradition of long distance runners (but not sprints or field). Basketball still has a reputation "add" and a ROI which the University is willing to spend to get. The context and structure does evolve over time. Alton McKenzie is a sprinter. And so you see, for example, the winner of the 200m on the men's side in the 2024 Big East Indoor was the Hoyas' Joshua Paige. Georgetown took second in the 4x400m. Meanwhile, the 800m is the classic 'middle distance' - neither sprint nor long distance. The Hoya men took 2, 3, 4, and 5 in the individual and the gold in the 4x800m team. On the women's side, the Hoyas took 1, 2, and 5 in the 200m, as well as 2 and 5 in the 400m. They took second in the 4x400m and 4x800. A lot of credit should go to Lee Reed imo. He has maximized the potential of a number of sports through great hires.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on May 23, 2024 18:41:11 GMT -5
The context and structure does evolve over time. Alton McKenzie is a sprinter. And so you see, for example, the winner of the 200m on the men's side in the 2024 Big East Indoor was the Hoyas' Joshua Paige. Georgetown took second in the 4x400m. Meanwhile, the 800m is the classic 'middle distance' - neither sprint nor long distance. The Hoya men took 2, 3, 4, and 5 in the individual and the gold in the 4x800m team. On the women's side, the Hoyas took 1, 2, and 5 in the 200m, as well as 2 and 5 in the 400m. They took second in the 4x400m and 4x800. A lot of credit should go to Lee Reed imo. He has maximized the potential of a number of sports through great hires. Well, I'll tell you, Edwin Thompson was certainly an impeccable hire. Hoyas send the Huskies home winless from the Big East Tournament.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on May 23, 2024 21:00:52 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 23, 2024 22:09:12 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 24, 2024 4:11:27 GMT -5
The NCAA and its five power conferences have approved a deal that paves the way for schools to pay athletes directly, a change that would crush any last notions of amateurism in major college sports. The agreement, which settles three antitrust cases and was voted on throughout this week, includes almost $2.8 billion in damages. That money will be distributed to current and former athletes, who sued in House v. NCAA over not being compensated for the use of their name, image and likeness (NIL) on television broadcasts. www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/05/23/ncaa-settlement-revenue-sharing/
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 24, 2024 8:43:28 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 24, 2024 15:11:38 GMT -5
The NCAA watched its model crumble. Is it ready to build something better? The reality is that the NCAA has been willfully behind in evaluating the merits of its model for four decades. In 1984, the Supreme Court ruled it couldn’t set its own market for television broadcasts. In 1988, it lost the right to cap earnings for certain assistant basketball coaches. In 2014, it lost the ability to prevent former athletes from profiting off NIL. In 2021, it lost the ability to prevent athletes from earning perks beyond a regular scholarship. In 2024, it was faced with losing four more cases — the three that were settled this week, and another that’s ongoing — so it came up with billions of dollars. www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/05/24/ncaa-paying-college-athletes/
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