SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,071
|
Post by SSHoya on May 19, 2024 5:58:56 GMT -5
Why this is a massive month for the future of college sports More changes are coming to college sports. Or more accurately, some major, major changes should be kick-started next week, when the NCAA and power conferences are set to vote on whether to settle an antitrust lawsuit that could cost them more than $2.7 billion in damages. A settlement in House v. NCAA is expected. That much is clear. But beyond those damages — which would be paid to past athletes who sued over not being compensated for the use of their name, image and likeness (NIL) in television broadcasts — a settlement would also establish a system for schools to share revenue directly with athletes for the first time. According to multiple reports, revenue sharing would be a choice for each school and initially capped around $20 million per year. And that’s where everything would get more complicated. www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/05/18/house-v-ncaa-settlement-vote/
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,191
|
Post by jwp91 on May 19, 2024 21:15:18 GMT -5
In football, Florida just signed a walk-on who was a 5 star with NIL in lieu of a scholarship effectively circumventing roster size limitations. Not sure that this applies to basketball given many coaches may not even use all of their scholarships, but it represents another slide into the brave new world.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 31,874
|
Post by DanMcQ on May 20, 2024 3:23:34 GMT -5
This straddles the NIL discussion and calls out the P5 football cabal at the same time.
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,750
|
Post by hoyaboya on May 20, 2024 8:33:40 GMT -5
If only we could have had a senior Big East administrator sitting at the NCAA leadership table for years who could've helped shape policies to our advantage...
|
|
bills
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 262
|
Post by bills on May 20, 2024 10:28:59 GMT -5
This straddles the NIL discussion and calls out the P5 football cabal at the same time. This is a great opportunity! All of the conferences being asked to pay the bill for the Power 5 conferences should not pay and resign from the NCAA. They can leave the NCAA with just the P5 conferences, which have been planning to leave the NCAA, to pay this settlement. The conferences who leave the NCAA can form a new Association which will not have all of the legal and historical precedent baggage that the NCAA has. It can bring some reasonable rules back to college athletics around athlete compensation, athlete transfers from one school to another, and championship tournaments for all sports. So long as the goal of the schools in this new association is about students competing in athletics and not about bringing in millions of dollars from broadcast companies. The P5 can have the big contracts and the professional athletes they hire to wear the school colors can have their own championships. this just makes too much sense to ever happen.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,213
|
Post by EtomicB on May 20, 2024 10:36:25 GMT -5
This straddles the NIL discussion and calls out the P5 football cabal at the same time. This is a great opportunity! All of the conferences being asked to pay the bill for the Power 5 conferences should not pay and resign from the NCAA. They can leave the NCAA with just the P5 conferences, which have been planning to leave the NCAA, to pay this settlement. The conferences who leave the NCAA can form a new Association which will not have all of the legal and historical precedent baggage that the NCAA has. It can bring some reasonable rules back to college athletics around athlete compensation, athlete transfers from one school to another, and championship tournaments for all sports. So long as the goal of the schools in this new association is about students competing in athletics and not about bringing in millions of dollars from broadcast companies. The P5 can have the big contracts and the professional athletes they hire to wear the school colors can have their own championships. this just makes too much sense to ever happen. So, no games will be televised in this new association?
|
|
bills
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 262
|
Post by bills on May 20, 2024 11:47:53 GMT -5
Since this is a fantasy that will never happen, I can be completely unrealistic. If a conference wants o stream their games, they can, but this is college students competing so the revenue from that would be minimal. What does thr Ivy League get for having their games televised? The schools are concerned with the graduation rate of the athletes. What they might contribute as alumni is where the school will get money, not for putting them on TV. The athletes who want to get paid will have the P5 conferences, the G Leadie, and international teams to play for if their talent is good enough to pay for. The athletes who want a good education can get a scholarship to as good a school as their academics qualify them for. Think about college athletics in the 70’s.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,213
|
Post by EtomicB on May 20, 2024 12:13:04 GMT -5
Since this is a fantasy that will never happen, I can be completely unrealistic. If a conference wants o stream their games, they can, but this is college students competing so the revenue from that would be minimal. What does thr Ivy League get for having their games televised? The schools are concerned with the graduation rate of the athletes. What they might contribute as alumni is where the school will get money, not for putting them on TV. The athletes who want to get paid will have the P5 conferences, the G Leadie, and international teams to play for if their talent is good enough to pay for. The athletes who want a good education can get a scholarship to as good a school as their academics qualify them for. Think about college athletics in the 70’s. Playing devils advocate here.. As the below article shows grad rates are as high as they’ve ever been. Also the larger sports help to support the AD as a whole, many sports wouldn’t be able to fund scholarships under your plan. highlandcountypress.com/sports/ncaa-student-athletes-graduate-record-highs#gsc.tab=0
|
|
bills
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 262
|
Post by bills on May 20, 2024 12:20:22 GMT -5
There is no silver bullet here. Big TV contracts have let schools offer more scholarships, but have changed the two highest profile sports football and men’s basketball into something that is badly broken. Colleges should not be making decisions based on how much money that will bring in from the networks. I would much prefer fewer scholarships.
|
|
hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by hoyaguy on May 20, 2024 12:31:42 GMT -5
If only we could have had a senior Big East administrator sitting at the NCAA leadership table for years who could've helped shape policies to our advantage... This is absurd. Hoarding the benefits when things are good and now wanting to socialize their losses when things go bad despite them taking in +90% of the revenue in the past. Where have I seen trashy behavior like this before… Any agreement that doesn’t have the P5 paying the majority is highway robbery
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 20, 2024 12:34:05 GMT -5
Since this is a fantasy that will never happen, I can be completely unrealistic. If a conference wants o stream their games, they can, but this is college students competing so the revenue from that would be minimal. What does thr Ivy League get for having their games televised? The schools are concerned with the graduation rate of the athletes. What they might contribute as alumni is where the school will get money, not for putting them on TV. The athletes who want to get paid will have the P5 conferences, the G Leadie, and international teams to play for if their talent is good enough to pay for. The athletes who want a good education can get a scholarship to as good a school as their academics qualify them for. Think about college athletics in the 70’s. Playing devils advocate here.. As the below article shows grad rates are as high as they’ve ever been. Also the larger sports help to support the AD as a whole, many sports wouldn’t be able to fund scholarships under your plan. highlandcountypress.com/sports/ncaa-student-athletes-graduate-record-highs#gsc.tab=0I know you are playing devil's advocate, but I think the response to this is that while basketball graduation rates have increased since 2002, the stats covered athletes entering in 2016. For most of those students' careers, they didn't have NIL at all, and they could not transfer without sitting. Both of those factors weigh in favor of graduation. With NIL and increased transfers, these rates are bound to go down. Purely from the perspective of academic credits, a guy who transfers 3 times in 4 like Primo Spears is not going to have a good shot at graduating. I actually think the transfers have more to do with graduation rates likely falling than NIL. NIL in some instances actually keeps guys in school because they can make money. But, NIL combined with transfers just destroys the benefits of that.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 20, 2024 12:38:19 GMT -5
If only we could have had a senior Big East administrator sitting at the NCAA leadership table for years who could've helped shape policies to our advantage... Of course we know that's exactly the reason why the situation was likely bungled.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,213
|
Post by EtomicB on May 20, 2024 12:52:53 GMT -5
I know you are playing devil's advocate, but I think the response to this is that while basketball graduation rates have increased since 2002, the stats covered athletes entering in 2016. For most of those students' careers, they didn't have NIL at all, and they could not transfer without sitting. Both of those factors weigh in favor of graduation. With NIL and increased transfers, these rates are bound to go down. Purely from the perspective of academic credits, a guy who transfers 3 times in 4 like Primo Spears is not going to have a good shot at graduating. I actually think the transfers have more to do with graduation rates likely falling than NIL. NIL in some instances actually keeps guys in school because they can make money. But, NIL combined with transfers just destroys the benefits of that. My main point was that we don't need to go back to 1970's style of college athletics to improve the system. You're right that the unlimited transfers will hurt grad rates without doubt which I think is part of the master plan to convince Congress to take action on this issue.
|
|
bills
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 262
|
Post by bills on May 20, 2024 13:26:22 GMT -5
If you want a very short list, look at problem situations that improved after Congressional action. Today the approval ration of Congress is about 15%, but the reelection rate is about 95%. The only priorities that Congress has are getting reelected and making the other party look bad. Letting Congress try to solve this problem will make us nostalgic for the NCAA.
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,750
|
Post by hoyaboya on May 20, 2024 13:51:49 GMT -5
Since this is a fantasy that will never happen, I can be completely unrealistic. If a conference wants o stream their games, they can, but this is college students competing so the revenue from that would be minimal. What does thr Ivy League get for having their games televised? The schools are concerned with the graduation rate of the athletes. What they might contribute as alumni is where the school will get money, not for putting them on TV. The athletes who want to get paid will have the P5 conferences, the G Leadie, and international teams to play for if their talent is good enough to pay for. The athletes who want a good education can get a scholarship to as good a school as their academics qualify them for. Think about college athletics in the 70’s. I'm fine with the fantasy, but there's nothing about how Georgetown has treated its basketball program that suggests this is realistic for us. If anything, we've doubled down on the opposite side with what we've paid coaches and our NIL budget. It would take different university leadership to move in a direction like the one you're proposing, because the current leadership would have too much egg on its face from previous decisions.
|
|
bills
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 262
|
Post by bills on May 20, 2024 15:00:26 GMT -5
It would take about 250 other schools willing to make the same decision before it becomes a real issue that Georgetown has to face. I don’t see anyone with major chops willing to lead the charge to make such a fundamental change.
The Georgetown leadership could take the position that the changes to college athletes in the last two years are forcing them to take a totally different approach to return to sensible college athletics. They would be in a pretty large club of people with some egg on their face but putting the blame on factors outside their control could let them get away with it.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 31,874
|
Post by DanMcQ on May 20, 2024 21:28:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jctnhoya4ever on May 21, 2024 20:50:26 GMT -5
I not sure Georgetown wants to win in basketball anymore. Maybe I am wrong but we have alumni that can pay into the nil. Where they at? I am sick of it, where is the Hoya pride. Is it completely gone now. When you have to put up money that’s shows who really cares. I love this team and always will but just wish some of the rich alumni felt like me. I will be a Hoya fan if we don’t win a damn game. As much as it hurts.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,834
|
Post by DFW HOYA on May 21, 2024 22:07:14 GMT -5
I not sure Georgetown wants to win in basketball anymore. Maybe I am wrong but we have alumni that can pay into the nil. Where they at? I am sick of it, where is the Hoya pride. Is it completely gone now. When you have to put up money that’s shows who really cares. I love this team and always will but just wish some of the rich alumni felt like me. I will be a Hoya fan if we don’t win a damn game. As much as it hurts. Georgetown wants to win in every sport it fields or it wouldn't be playing it. The football team wants to win. The track team wants to win. Even the field hockey team, which must practice and play home games in Towson, MD, 63 miles from campus, wants to win....but went 1-17. Why some teams do and some teams don't is a Rubik's cube of funding, coaching, and facilities, and the lack thereof. Georgetown wants to win in men's basketball. It's been the lead sport for over 70 years. For more than 40 of those years it held a special niche in the college basketball landscape: a nationally prominent team, playing in a pro arena, with access to NBA players coming through town and an expectation to earn a prominent degree and learn under some of the best minds on and off the court, and was this social amalgam of what one sports writer called "a mostly black team in a mostly white university in mostly black city in a mostly white nation." It produced millionaires in the NBA, and some millionaires in life too. That model isn't successful in 2024. Everyone is nationally prominent thanks to ESPN, Instagram, and the like. Kids are on the AAU circuit for sometimes three, four years now, so a pro arena is nothing new to them. They meet NBA athletes all the time. The value of a prominent degree is de minimis when you can earn six figures on social media or from NIL. DC is no longer "our playground". If players see a path to the NBA, Georgetown is not on their list. Baylor is more a basketball school than Georgetown is right now, for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, NIL is fool's gold. For every UConn alumnus who can sit back and be glad he made it possible for Cam Spencer or Stephon Castle to to win a national title, there is a Georgetown alumnus who was asked for NIL for the likes of Brandon Murray or Bryson Mozone, and ask themselves in hindsight, "for what?" That same gift to baseball could put Georgetown in the NCAA's. That same gift to lacrosse could put Georgetown in line for a Final Four and more. So what do the donors do when they get that call? Did Dontrez Styles, Rowan Brumbaugh, Ismael Massoud et al. do any appearances for a local business, build their brand, or even continue to complete a degree? They're gone, and so is that non-deductible gift. Primo Spears is on his fourth school and NIL makes it worth his while to keep moving. He got something out of it, but did anyone else? This is why it's so difficult for coaches right now to build and retain rosters and why Georgetown is especially vulnerable--the record is poor and its selective donor base is burned out after years of poor performance and decades of indifference from the former basketball office--those are the people to which Cooley's ability to move up the standings will sink or swim on NIL. Don't let the Twitter savants sell you that Georgetown alumni will outspend everyone, because they didn't. And at some point if or when there is not progress, even that money will go elsewhere.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 21, 2024 22:19:26 GMT -5
I not sure Georgetown wants to win in basketball anymore. Maybe I am wrong but we have alumni that can pay into the nil. Where they at? I am sick of it, where is the Hoya pride. Is it completely gone now. When you have to put up money that’s shows who really cares. I love this team and always will but just wish some of the rich alumni felt like me. I will be a Hoya fan if we don’t win a damn game. As much as it hurts. Georgetown wants to win in every sport it fields or it wouldn't be playing it. The football team wants to win. The track team wants to win. Even the field hockey team, which must practice and play home games in Towson, MD, 63 miles from campus, wants to win....but went 1-17. Why some teams do and some teams don't is a Rubik's cube of funding, coaching, and facilities, and the lack thereof. I think saying "Georgetown wants to win in every sport it fields" is not really the right question. Of course, nearly every sports team in any competitive context wants to win. After all, that's the whole purpose of competitive sports. Does Georgetown "want" to win at football? Sure. But that's not the right question. Does Georgetown put its football program in a position where winning is possible given that it won't give full scholarships in a conference where other team do? No. And to me, that's Georgetown admitting it is in a position where it cannot win. Thus, I think at least for football, Georgetown may "want" to win but more importantly, it is not willing to make the investment to make that possible. Basketball is not in that place. We do not have the advantages the program had in the late 1980s or 1990s. But, we can still succeed.
|
|