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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 5, 2020 10:33:33 GMT -5
Esherick was axed because he made the mistake if claiming in a press conference that "I will be here for 30 years if I want" or something to that effect. He could well have been given o e more year to try to turn it around if he had not made it sound like the AD had no control over him. Esh was axed for his job performance. He was responding with that comment to the negative chorus of people who questioned why he was still here and wanted him gone. There was a planned protest rally. Esh got his teams to a Sweet Sixteen and NIT championship game appearance. He also recruited Green and Hibbert (and Crawford). Same type of thing with the fire JTIII chants at games for III when he hit a rut. III had a Final Four, Big East championship and tournament appearances. That type of atmosphere isn't something one would reflect upon fondly and could leave bad blood or mixed feelings regarding their departure. Much different than when Mullin left. MullinMy understanding from a friend of Craig's has always been that despite the calls for his job, the admin was in favor of giving him one more year until his defiance gave them no choice. |
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 5, 2020 10:51:50 GMT -5
But he wasn't defiant towards the admin.
He was defending himself towards the detractors, which was any coach would have done.
Maybe admin jumped the gun by supporting him initially before not realizing how much unrest there was among the fanbase with planned protests,etc.
Had he won, there wouldn't have been the detractors, his defiance, or his firing.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 5, 2020 11:29:41 GMT -5
GU took a chance once on JT2 and reaped incredible rewards. Now we are afraid of true change and cling on dearly to an ever more distant past. I was at school during the Ewing years and he will always be my favorite player. He is our coach now and it’s hard to separate the two. I wish him the best, but it’s going to be an uphill battle.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 5, 2020 19:06:31 GMT -5
I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future: 1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually. 2. There is a major problem related to the University that is bleeding over into the bball program. In short GU has become, to many, an "elitist" institution. A sorta minor Ivy. It is attracting wealthier, Higher SAT scores, students who don't have the interest in basketball that their older fellow alums (e.g. me) do. Ergo the top quality soccer and lacrosse programs. As a result, the school has problems attracting AND RETAINING the inner city, minority kids it has in the past. Face it, despite the University's best efforts GU was always a little intimidating to kids from poorer families (again me) but has obviously become much more so over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the students are welcoming the diversity the University is promoting but it has to be hard for kids to move out of their basketball bubble into the social circle of kids whose families are paying $63K a year in tuition. The optimist in me says it is #1 but the realist/pessimist says it is #2 There is much more support for #1 than #2. No doubt, there are institutional reasons why a basketball program will succeed/fail, including financial resources, the conference a school is a part of (if Georgetown was in the Patriot League for basketball, we'd have no shot at prominence), administration decision-making, etc., but I don't think the issues you have outlined above are it at all. Georgetown did succeed in JT3's first decade (don't forget, we were a #4 seed in 2015, when things were much the same as they are now). In the US News ranking, Georgetown is ranked 23. Of the 22 schools above us, 5 have no Division 1 basketball (Emory, Washington University (St. Louis), John Hopkins, Caltech, University of Chicago, MIT), leaving 17 that do. Now, most of these schools are not powerhouses in basketball, other than Duke. But even so, and even though some of these schools are in mid-major style conferences, we are currently ranked 99 on KenPom. Many of these schools have had much better rankings over the years. So, it's no excuse. I would also add that US News #24, Michigan, obviously has a ton of success in sports, as does UVA at #26. Obviously, state schools are different, but it just shows that elite institutions can be good at basketball, even if most are not. Obviously, there are a lot of distinguishing factors among these schools, but history shows that if you have a good coach, you win. If you do not, you lose. I mean, look at Pastner. He recruited amazingly at Memphis for years and did not do much with it. He just wasn't a great coach (other than recruiting). The easiest way to succeed is a good coach. |
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 5, 2020 19:43:26 GMT -5
I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future: 1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually. 2. There is a major problem related to the University that is bleeding over into the bball program. In short GU has become, to many, an "elitist" institution. A sorta minor Ivy. It is attracting wealthier, Higher SAT scores, students who don't have the interest in basketball that their older fellow alums (e.g. me) do. Ergo the top quality soccer and lacrosse programs. As a result, the school has problems attracting AND RETAINING the inner city, minority kids it has in the past. Face it, despite the University's best efforts GU was always a little intimidating to kids from poorer families (again me) but has obviously become much more so over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the students are welcoming the diversity the University is promoting but it has to be hard for kids to move out of their basketball bubble into the social circle of kids whose families are paying $63K a year in tuition. The optimist in me says it is #1 but the realist/pessimist says it is #2 There is much more support for #1 than #2. No doubt, there are institutional reasons why a basketball program will succeed/fail, including financial resources, the conference a school is a part of (if Georgetown was in the Patriot League for basketball, we'd have no shot at prominence), administration decision-making, etc., but I don't think the issues you have outlined above are it at all. Georgetown did succeed in JT3's first decade (don't forget, we were a #4 seed in 2015, when things were much the same as they are now). In the US News ranking, Georgetown is ranked 23. Of the 22 schools above us, 5 have no Division 1 basketball (Emory, Washington University (St. Louis), John Hopkins, Caltech, University of Chicago, MIT), leaving 17 that do. Now, most of these schools are not powerhouses in basketball, other than Duke. But even so, and even though some of these schools are in mid-major style conferences, we are currently ranked 99 on KenPom. Many of these schools have had much better rankings over the years. So, it's no excuse. I would also add that US News #24, Michigan, obviously has a ton of success in sports, as does UVA at #26. Obviously, state schools are different, but it just shows that elite institutions can be good at basketball, even if most are not. Obviously, there are a lot of distinguishing factors among these schools, but history shows that if you have a good coach, you win. If you do not, you lose. I mean, look at Pastner. He recruited amazingly at Memphis for years and did not do much with it. He just wasn't a great coach (other than recruiting). The easiest way to succeed is a good coach. I don't see how you can separate recruiting from being a good coach. A coach who can't recruit isn't going to win at the NCAA tourney level at the college basketball level. |
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dailey247
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Post by dailey247 on Dec 5, 2020 20:17:35 GMT -5
I don't see how you can separate recruiting from being a good coach. A coach who can't recruit isn't going to win at the NCAA tourney level at the college basketball level. You're literally correct, but I think there are shades to this. Being a good recruiter can mean convincing 5-star, 1-and-dones to consistently come play for your, or it can mean identifying talent that fits your scheme and fits well together. Successful coaches can be A+++ ace recruiters, and not great at actual in-game coaching and win (Calipari). Or they can be good recruiters of lesser talent, while also running a quality scheme and being a good tactician (Bennett, Wright). Or a blend of the two (Roy Williams). |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 5, 2020 20:52:54 GMT -5
Pat needs to hire a recruiter with strong DMV ties and a good tactician. That’s two hires please.
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on Dec 5, 2020 22:40:09 GMT -5
I refuse to judge Coach Ewing until next season. The defections of last year were RIDICULOUS. This roster is going to take its lumps whether or not Red Holtzman or Pat Riley was the HC. I think Patrick is doing a “good” job recruiting and next year’s team will be attractive in it’s own right .
I do implore play the future NOW. I liKe what I see from Kobe Clark and Dante Harris. Want to see Sibley.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 6, 2020 0:47:10 GMT -5
I’d like to see the freshman get minutes as well, but not at the expense of winning.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Dec 6, 2020 8:36:20 GMT -5
I’d like to see the freshman get minutes as well, but not at the expense of winning. Was there anything that you saw in the Navy game that indicates that playing Bile instead of Kobe Clark will lead to more winning? |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 6, 2020 9:03:50 GMT -5
I’d like to see the freshman get minutes as well, but not at the expense of winning. Was there anything that you saw in the Navy game that indicates that playing Bile instead of Kobe Clark will lead to more winning? Not us winning... |
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Post by reformation on Dec 6, 2020 9:18:21 GMT -5
The posts about the academic/social culture of Gtwn being the cause of our demise seem way off base. The kids who play basketball or football at a high D1 level level don't have an avg student experience in any way. Also we are actually not any better(probably worse) than a bunch of schools ahead of us in the US news rankings, i.e., Duke, Northwestern Harvard, Stanford, Yale. Given all the money and effort put into the program we are performing at best as a higher end Ivy(not even clearly the best Ivy-guess we'd be #2 or 3).
Obviously we have one of he worst input/output relationships in the sport. This year is probably looked at as a write-off with less general attention focused on the effort. Next year it seems we have a reasonable recruiting class for the first time in a while. If Ewing cannot do anything with that then we have to look elsewhere. I think clearly part of the justification in hiring him would be that his star status would attract recruits Clearly that has been totally wrong as he has dramatically underperformed in this area. I know some ex pro athletes in their 50"s who know him really well and have all said that they are not surprised that he can't recruit and thought that he would have a tough time making connections to young kids--mind you that they are Ewing fans(the ex pro's NFL football guys, said this when he was hired, not just now). They thought that both being a superstar at his level + a bit of JT2's us against the world attitude put a distance between him and most people. I think Gtwn had to know this and the encumbent risk in hiring him, but took the risk anyway.
Best we can hope for is adding/changing some assistant staff this year.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 6, 2020 19:14:34 GMT -5
I don't see how you can separate recruiting from being a good coach. A coach who can't recruit isn't going to win at the NCAA tourney level at the college basketball level. Or they can be good recruiters of lesser talent, while also running a quality scheme and being a good tactician (Bennett, Wright). I think my definition of lesser talent is different than yours. |
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hoya59er
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Post by hoya59er on Dec 6, 2020 20:08:24 GMT -5
We looked better tonight v W VA. My take though, we really don't have many good players. Blair has definitely improved, not All B-E, but definitely a factor. Pickett played pretty well but was not really a factor when needed. What disturbed me the most, the TV announcers, who know bball, observed that we came out of halftime less aggressive. Simply, W VA out played us in the second half. To an extent, isn't that on Ewing?! To be up at half in an important game and not come out aggressive?
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tupac
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Post by tupac on Dec 6, 2020 20:27:58 GMT -5
Let me say this .... I’m a Hoya Fan and want them to win just as much as everyone else but let’s be realistic this is a season like no other we have 1 starter from last year with 3 bench players we have 8 new players with no preseason what can we expect this early in the season these guys haven’t played long enough with each other to form anything... Yes the seniors need to play better but it is what it is for now ... But I believe the future is bright
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 21:06:11 GMT -5
We looked better tonight v W VA. My take though, we really don't have many good players. Blair has definitely improved, not All B-E, but definitely a factor. Pickett played pretty well but was not really a factor when needed. What disturbed me the most, the TV announcers, who know bball, observed that we came out of halftime less aggressive. Simply, W VA out played us in the second half. To an extent, isn't that on Ewing?! To be up at half in an important game and not come out aggressive? So the 1st half aggressiveness wasn't b/c of Ewing? WVU's a good, physical team, and they ended up breaking us down eventually. No shame in that. We played hard but their best players atoned for a bad 1st half & made plays down the stretch, and ours didn't deliver. Which wasn't exactly unexpected. |
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 6, 2020 21:09:54 GMT -5
We looked better tonight v W VA. My take though, we really don't have many good players. Blair has definitely improved, not All B-E, but definitely a factor. Pickett played pretty well but was not really a factor when needed. What disturbed me the most, the TV announcers, who know bball, observed that we came out of halftime less aggressive. Simply, W VA out played us in the second half. To an extent, isn't that on Ewing?! To be up at half in an important game and not come out aggressive? So the 1st half aggressiveness wasn't b/c of Ewing? WVU's a good, physical team, and they ended up breaking us down eventually. No shame in that. We played hard but their best players atoned for a bad 1st half & made plays down the stretch, and ours didn't deliver. Which wasn't exactly unexpected. You got it all wrong. When we do well it's because of the players in spite of Ewing. If we do poorly it's Ewing's fault. That's the party line. |
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wsdhoya
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Post by wsdhoya on Dec 6, 2020 22:27:02 GMT -5
It seems like Ewing doesn't really coach. I watched the Nova game and the Georgetown game today. Jay Wright is constantly shouting out play calls. Unless they're running in transition Gillespie pauses near midcourt as Nova sets up whatever play or whatever offense Wright called. Georgetown guards run up the floor like chickens with their heads cut off because there is no plan. Only times the TV shows Ewing he's complaining about a call or about a mistake/turnover. When West Virginia needed a bucket they called a play, got a mismatch or open look and usually scored. When we scored big buckets it was because Blair either got himself open off the ball or on the dribble and threw up a three. We need to stop trying to play like a pro team in college, and we need Ewing to coach like a college basketball coach or go back to the NBA. Also depressing seeing comments on Georgetown social media saying "we did well for playing a top 25 team". If our program is ok with losing at home by 10 to West Virginia and calling it a good effort I'm done. We're not DePaul there are no morale victories for a program like Georgetown. I guess I'm the crazy one and should align my expectations with what we currently are, which is a mid major team and athletic department playing in a high major conference.
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hoyaroc
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Post by hoyaroc on Dec 7, 2020 0:00:30 GMT -5
It seems like Ewing doesn't really coach. I watched the Nova game and the Georgetown game today. Jay Wright is constantly shouting out play calls. Unless they're running in transition Gillespie pauses near midcourt as Nova sets up whatever play or whatever offense Wright called. Georgetown guards run up the floor like chickens with their heads cut off because there is no plan. Only times the TV shows Ewing he's complaining about a call or about a mistake/turnover. When West Virginia needed a bucket they called a play, got a mismatch or open look and usually scored. When we scored big buckets it was because Blair either got himself open off the ball or on the dribble and threw up a three. We need to stop trying to play like a pro team in college, and we need Ewing to coach like a college basketball coach or go back to the NBA. Also depressing seeing comments on Georgetown social media saying "we did well for playing a top 25 team". If our program is ok with losing at home by 10 to West Virginia and calling it a good effort I'm done. We're not DePaul there are no morale victories for a program like Georgetown. I guess I'm the crazy one and should align my expectations with what we currently are, which is a mid major team and athletic department playing in a high major conference. I agree we are not DePaul. But we don’t have the talent or toughness like WVU. Our guys played hard against a better opponent. |
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Post by Problem of Dog on Dec 7, 2020 0:05:24 GMT -5
Ewing's biggest issue is that he hasn't gotten talent to Georgetown. End of story. You can recruit these fringe four star kids all you want, but you need elite, top tier talent if you want to succeed in college basketball. Are there other ways to do it? Yes, but the subset of the schools that succeed in winning without top tier talent is small and inconsistent.
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