The current state of our Hoya basketball program

[calhoya]

Dec 3, 2020 20:48:32 GMT -5 the_way said:

How about rooting for the team when the program is on hard times.

Some of my favorite Hoya teams didn't necessarily win big or go to the final four.

Last year's team of a 6-man rotation made me proud as a fan. Seeing those guys fight and work as a team. Didn't win too many games, but they showed a lot of heart.

If anything, hopefully we can see that same grit and fight this year with this squad.

Me too. Loved those kids, their heart and their effort. Made me feel that perhaps Ewing is the right coach, after all. Particularly watching them play team ball, seemingly unconcerned with who was the hero and who took how many shots. The 2nd half collapse in the BE tourney caused some doubt that maybe this hope was not warranted.

Then came the recruiting misses, signing a series of unheralded prospects with assurances that they are all vastly underrated, with athleticism that will provide the style of play that the coach wants to implement. COVID hits and all hell breaks loose --limited practice time, 9 new players, no fans (well that is unfortunately something the Hoyas have been getting used to) and a delayed schedule all added to my confusion as to what to expect. Still we had promises of a cohesive team, without massive egos and with a chip on its shoulder to prove to all the doubters that this program is still worth investing the time, money and emotion in supporting.

Not a good start at all and for reasons that have little to do with practice time. Effort, intensity, team ball--all lacking after two games. Team and coaches seem overmatched against the quality of opposition they will face. Some here have written them off already and I certainly understand why. I can't and still hope, perhaps irrationally, that the posts will suddenly evolve into much more complete players, the ball movement from last season can return, the intensity will return and while defeats are almost guaranteed, it will not be because the team played without heart or effort. I want this coach to justify the accolades given him when he was recruited for the job by the Administration and seize the opportunity he still has to restore some pride to a program that has become irrelevant to all but a handful of us. I want that, but my doubts are growing and it seems unfair to take shots at any fans here who look at the situation and see no hope without yet another change in leadership.

[hoya9797]

Dec 4, 2020 8:47:38 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Dec 4, 2020 8:06:03 GMT -5 bigskyhoya said:

Most posters would agree Ewing must improve as a coach for the team to improve. Where we differ is that some have already written him off. In fact, there is a subset of those in the latter group--you know who you are--who were staunch defenders of III and were never going to accept his firing or a new coach. That is their not-so-hidden-agenda.

There have been a cadre of posters who wrote him off from day 1.

Yeah, and how’s that looking so far?

[EtomicB]

Dec 3, 2020 23:29:39 GMT -5 the_way said:

Dec 3, 2020 23:21:58 GMT -5 hoyainla said:

You do realize the reason people are upset after the Navy game is because they folded like a cheap suit right? That was on top last year ending on the wrong end of the worst closing run that I can remember.

2nd game of the year. Looking sloppy this early in the year isn't unthinkable or shocking.

Kentucky lost to Richmond recently.

I'm too lazy to go back to find it but you had a post recently where you stated that Gtowns defensive issues may be systemic(no maybe about it in my view)...

Now you seem to be laying it off on early season rust...

The issues(especially the defense) from the Navy game have been a problem since the staff got hired, very hard for me to chalk it up to rust or new players ect...

[the_way]

Dec 4, 2020 9:06:56 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Dec 3, 2020 20:48:32 GMT -5 the_way said:

How about rooting for the team when the program is on hard times.

Some of my favorite Hoya teams didn't necessarily win big or go to the final four.

Last year's team of a 6-man rotation made me proud as a fan. Seeing those guys fight and work as a team. Didn't win too many games, but they showed a lot of heart.

If anything, hopefully we can see that same grit and fight this year with this squad.

Me too. Loved those kids, their heart and their effort. Made me feel that perhaps Ewing is the right coach, after all. Particularly watching them play team ball, seemingly unconcerned with who was the hero and who took how many shots. The 2nd half collapse in the BE tourney caused some doubt that maybe this hope was not warranted.

Then came the recruiting misses, signing a series of unheralded prospects with assurances that they are all vastly underrated, with athleticism that will provide the style of play that the coach wants to implement. COVID hits and all hell breaks loose --limited practice time, 9 new players, no fans (well that is unfortunately something the Hoyas have been getting used to) and a delayed schedule all added to my confusion as to what to expect. Still we had promises of a cohesive team, without massive egos and with a chip on its shoulder to prove to all the doubters that this program is still worth investing the time, money and emotion in supporting.

Not a good start at all and for reasons that have little to do with practice time. Effort, intensity, team ball--all lacking after two games. Team and coaches seem overmatched against the quality of opposition they will face. Some here have written them off already and I certainly understand why. I can't and still hope, perhaps irrationally, that the posts will suddenly evolve into much more complete players, the ball movement from last season can return, the intensity will return and while defeats are almost guaranteed, it will not be because the team played without heart or effort. I want this coach to justify the accolades given him when he was recruited for the job by the Administration and seize the opportunity he still has to restore some pride to a program that has become irrelevant to all but a handful of us. I want that, but my doubts are growing and it seems unfair to take shots at any fans here who look at the situation and see no hope without yet another change in leadership.

It is too early to write them off after 2 games. You have experienced players but in expanded roles. That is an adjustment. You have experienced but new faces on the roster who have to find their role on the team. Then you got the freshmen. I don't know what the restrictions are for practice due to COVID, but even without it....the team would still need time to jell. You can't do all of that even in practice. You also need live action to do it. On top of that, if we aren't a talented team and we haven't jelled, the outcome might be ugly.

We all know what happened last year with the transfers. The magnitude of those departures was too great to overcome a program like ours trying to get back on its feet. Maybe at Kentucky or Duke were they just reload every year, but not us.

Ewing doesn't have to justify anything. He just has to win games. People get hired with the hope they succeed. There is no guarantee. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[hoyainla]

Dec 3, 2020 23:29:39 GMT -5 the_way said:

Dec 3, 2020 23:21:58 GMT -5 hoyainla said:

You do realize the reason people are upset after the Navy game is because they folded like a cheap suit right? That was on top last year ending on the wrong end of the worst closing run that I can remember.

2nd game of the year. Looking sloppy this early in the year isn't unthinkable or shocking.

Kentucky lost to Richmond recently.

We didn't just look sloppy we looked like we had no clue what structured basketball looked like. We looked dejected. We intentionally fouled a guy with 13 seconds second left on the shot clock when we had fouls to give. We got beat by the same low major player over and over with little to no adjustment. Do I need to go on or should I just bury my head in the sand?

[the_way]

Dec 4, 2020 13:06:28 GMT -5 hoyainla said:

Dec 3, 2020 23:29:39 GMT -5 the_way said:

2nd game of the year. Looking sloppy this early in the year isn't unthinkable or shocking.

Kentucky lost to Richmond recently.

We didn't just look sloppy we looked like we had no clue what structured basketball looked like. We looked dejected. We intentionally fouled a guy with 13 seconds second left on the shot clock when we had fouls to give. We got beat by the same low major player over and over with little to no adjustment. Do I need to go on or should I just bury my head in the sand?

That is up to you. As Anakin Skywalker once said: "I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating and it gets everywhere"

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2020 13:06:28 GMT -5 hoyainla said:

Dec 3, 2020 23:29:39 GMT -5 the_way said:

2nd game of the year. Looking sloppy this early in the year isn't unthinkable or shocking.

Kentucky lost to Richmond recently.

We didn't just look sloppy we looked like we had no clue what structured basketball looked like. We looked dejected. We intentionally fouled a guy with 13 seconds second left on the shot clock when we had fouls to give. We got beat by the same low major player over and over with little to no adjustment. Do I need to go on or should I just bury my head in the sand?

Yeah, just make sure it's quick!

[paranoia2]

Phil Collins working on a modern version of his classic “SUSSUDIO” & it has Hoya ties...

“There is a guy that is on the court...a decision Pat should abort...Chu, Chu, CHUDIER.....You cringe when he drives the laaaane.....like a headless chicken gone insane...Chu, Chu, CHUDIER...Great energy & he is having fun....Turnover to assists at 4-1.....Chu, Chu, CHUDIER...”

[drquigley]

I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future:

1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually.

2. There is a major problem related to the University that is bleeding over into the bball program. In short GU has become, to many, an "elitist" institution. A sorta minor Ivy. It is attracting wealthier, Higher SAT scores, students who don't have the interest in basketball that their older fellow alums (e.g. me) do. Ergo the top quality soccer and lacrosse programs. As a result, the school has problems attracting AND RETAINING the inner city, minority kids it has in the past. Face it, despite the University's best efforts GU was always a little intimidating to kids from poorer families (again me) but has obviously become much more so over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the students are welcoming the diversity the University is promoting but it has to be hard for kids to move out of their basketball bubble into the social circle of kids whose families are paying $63K a year in tuition.

The optimist in me says it is #1 but the realist/pessimist says it is #2

[calhoya]

Dec 4, 2020 10:29:41 GMT -5 the_way said:

Dec 4, 2020 9:06:56 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Me too. Loved those kids, their heart and their effort. Made me feel that perhaps Ewing is the right coach, after all. Particularly watching them play team ball, seemingly unconcerned with who was the hero and who took how many shots. The 2nd half collapse in the BE tourney caused some doubt that maybe this hope was not warranted.

Then came the recruiting misses, signing a series of unheralded prospects with assurances that they are all vastly underrated, with athleticism that will provide the style of play that the coach wants to implement. COVID hits and all hell breaks loose --limited practice time, 9 new players, no fans (well that is unfortunately something the Hoyas have been getting used to) and a delayed schedule all added to my confusion as to what to expect. Still we had promises of a cohesive team, without massive egos and with a chip on its shoulder to prove to all the doubters that this program is still worth investing the time, money and emotion in supporting.

Not a good start at all and for reasons that have little to do with practice time. Effort, intensity, team ball--all lacking after two games. Team and coaches seem overmatched against the quality of opposition they will face. Some here have written them off already and I certainly understand why. I can't and still hope, perhaps irrationally, that the posts will suddenly evolve into much more complete players, the ball movement from last season can return, the intensity will return and while defeats are almost guaranteed, it will not be because the team played without heart or effort. I want this coach to justify the accolades given him when he was recruited for the job by the Administration and seize the opportunity he still has to restore some pride to a program that has become irrelevant to all but a handful of us. I want that, but my doubts are growing and it seems unfair to take shots at any fans here who look at the situation and see no hope without yet another change in leadership.

It is too early to write them off after 2 games. You have experienced players but in expanded roles. That is an adjustment. You have experienced but new faces on the roster who have to find their role on the team. Then you got the freshmen. I don't know what the restrictions are for practice due to COVID, but even without it....the team would still need time to jell. You can't do all of that even in practice. You also need live action to do it. On top of that, if we aren't a talented team and we haven't jelled, the outcome might be ugly.

We all know what happened last year with the transfers. The magnitude of those departures was too great to overcome a program like ours trying to get back on its feet. Maybe at Kentucky or Duke were they just reload every year, but not us.

Ewing doesn't have to justify anything. He just has to win games. People get hired with the hope they succeed. There is no guarantee. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Perhaps the word "justify" sent the wrong message. Ewing was a major risk hire. No prior college coaching experience. No head coaching experience at any level. No experience recruiting high school kids. Then given a salary higher than or equivalent to that of many more successful and experienced coaches. Ewing should not be evaluated on the basis of his play on the court or his commitment to the school. He should be judged based upon the results as a coach. As you say there are no guarantees.

[iowa80]

Dec 4, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -5 drquigley said:

I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future:

1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually.

2. There is a major problem related to the University that is bleeding over into the bball program. In short GU has become, to many, an "elitist" institution. A sorta minor Ivy. It is attracting wealthier, Higher SAT scores, students who don't have the interest in basketball that their older fellow alums (e.g. me) do. Ergo the top quality soccer and lacrosse programs. As a result, the school has problems attracting AND RETAINING the inner city, minority kids it has in the past. Face it, despite the University's best efforts GU was always a little intimidating to kids from poorer families (again me) but has obviously become much more so over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the students are welcoming the diversity the University is promoting but it has to be hard for kids to move out of their basketball bubble into the social circle of kids whose families are paying $63K a year in tuition.

The optimist in me says it is #1 but the realist/pessimist says it is #2

#2--true or false--is probably a topic for those quite a bit closer to graduation than me, but what sense I have from admittedly small contact is that it's not an issue.  I do wonder about the academic environment for the student-athlete, and how it compares to say, Villanova, Providence or Seton Hall.  Is there any reason why certain members of the team would say "Basketball is my future, and I don't really want to go through this here."  I'm not sure the four-year degree and the image of the deflated basketball have the cache that they once did.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Dec 4, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -5 drquigley said:

I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future:

1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually.

2. There is a major problem related to the University that is bleeding over into the bball program. In short GU has become, to many, an "elitist" institution. A sorta minor Ivy. It is attracting wealthier, Higher SAT scores, students who don't have the interest in basketball that their older fellow alums (e.g. me) do. Ergo the top quality soccer and lacrosse programs. As a result, the school has problems attracting AND RETAINING the inner city, minority kids it has in the past. Face it, despite the University's best efforts GU was always a little intimidating to kids from poorer families (again me) but has obviously become much more so over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the students are welcoming the diversity the University is promoting but it has to be hard for kids to move out of their basketball bubble into the social circle of kids whose families are paying $63K a year in tuition.

The optimist in me says it is #1 but the realist/pessimist says it is #2

I highly doubt two. Mainly because the school was even whiter 15+ years ago then it is today. If you also look at the move to need blind admissions, the universities applicant pool and student body has gotten more diverse, not less. The one thing I have been thoroughly impressed with is the way admissions handles a massive applicant pool and evaluates the future of that pool 20 years out. It is insane what goes into it. I think Gtown has always been elitist. I felt that way when I was there and that's just because I was from the midwest and not from a boarding school, not because of my race (I am white). Of the applicants I have interviewed, I would say there has been only 1 white kid in the bunch out of 20+. The only interviewees of mine that got in were not white. Maybe its where I live that the applicants I interview are more diverse but I don't think so. I think our hoops program is just stuck in a rut. We are working with the same assistants. When JT Jr. recruited Patrick, he was 39. I don't know the age of his staff but my guess is they were mostly younger. Our current staff is led by Patrick who is 58. I know Lou Orr is older. Kirby is old. Basically Waheed is our young gun and he has got to be close to 40. I think that is a big problem on the talent acquisition end.

On the Xs & Os, I think Patrick just has to keep evolving and learning.

[hoya9797]

Dec 4, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -5 drquigley said:

I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future:

1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually.

2. There is a major problem related to the University that is bleeding over into the bball program. In short GU has become, to many, an "elitist" institution. A sorta minor Ivy. It is attracting wealthier, Higher SAT scores, students who don't have the interest in basketball that their older fellow alums (e.g. me) do. Ergo the top quality soccer and lacrosse programs. As a result, the school has problems attracting AND RETAINING the inner city, minority kids it has in the past. Face it, despite the University's best efforts GU was always a little intimidating to kids from poorer families (again me) but has obviously become much more so over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the students are welcoming the diversity the University is promoting but it has to be hard for kids to move out of their basketball bubble into the social circle of kids whose families are paying $63K a year in tuition.

The optimist in me says it is #1 but the realist/pessimist says it is #2

Counterpoint, Duke has managed just fine despite being the same kind of place as Georgetown.

[drquigley]

Dec 4, 2020 15:56:16 GMT -5 ColumbiaHeightsHoya said:

Dec 4, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -5 drquigley said:

I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future:

1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually.

2. There is a major problem related to the University that is bleeding over into the bball program. In short GU has become, to many, an "elitist" institution. A sorta minor Ivy. It is attracting wealthier, Higher SAT scores, students who don't have the interest in basketball that their older fellow alums (e.g. me) do. Ergo the top quality soccer and lacrosse programs. As a result, the school has problems attracting AND RETAINING the inner city, minority kids it has in the past. Face it, despite the University's best efforts GU was always a little intimidating to kids from poorer families (again me) but has obviously become much more so over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the students are welcoming the diversity the University is promoting but it has to be hard for kids to move out of their basketball bubble into the social circle of kids whose families are paying $63K a year in tuition.

The optimist in me says it is #1 but the realist/pessimist says it is #2

I highly doubt two. Mainly because the school was even whiter 15+ years ago then it is today. If you also look at the move to need blind admissions, the universities applicant pool and student body has gotten more diverse, not less. The one thing I have been thoroughly impressed with is the way admissions handles a massive applicant pool and evaluates the future of that pool 20 years out. It is insane what goes into it. I think Gtown has always been elitist. I felt that way when I was there and that's just because I was from the midwest and not from a boarding school, not because of my race (I am white). Of the applicants I have interviewed, I would say there has been only 1 white kid in the bunch out of 20+. The only interviewees of mine that got in were not white. Maybe its where I live that the applicants I interview are more diverse but I don't think so. I think our hoops program is just stuck in a rut. We are working with the same assistants. When JT Jr. recruited Patrick, he was 39. I don't know the age of his staff but my guess is they were mostly younger. Our current staff is led by Patrick who is 58. I know Lou Orr is older. Kirby is old. Basically Waheed is our young gun and he has got to be close to 40. I think that is a big problem on the talent acquisition end.

On the Xs & Os, I think Patrick just has to keep evolving and learning.

It's not the race of the kids its the socio-economic background. Obviously GU is much more socio-culturally diverse than it used to be. Again $63k a year is ridiculous.

[drquigley]

Dec 4, 2020 16:23:35 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Dec 4, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -5 drquigley said:

I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future:

1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually.

2. There is a major problem related to the University that is bleeding over into the bball program. In short GU has become, to many, an "elitist" institution. A sorta minor Ivy. It is attracting wealthier, Higher SAT scores, students who don't have the interest in basketball that their older fellow alums (e.g. me) do. Ergo the top quality soccer and lacrosse programs. As a result, the school has problems attracting AND RETAINING the inner city, minority kids it has in the past. Face it, despite the University's best efforts GU was always a little intimidating to kids from poorer families (again me) but has obviously become much more so over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the students are welcoming the diversity the University is promoting but it has to be hard for kids to move out of their basketball bubble into the social circle of kids whose families are paying $63K a year in tuition.

The optimist in me says it is #1 but the realist/pessimist says it is #2

Counterpoint, Duke has managed just fine despite being the same kind of place as Georgetown.

Never been to Duke. Have to wonder if Durham NC isn't more laid back and welcoming than DC and Georgetown.

[vv83]

Dec 4, 2020 16:23:35 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Dec 4, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -5 drquigley said:

I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future:

1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually.

2. There is a major problem related to the University that is bleeding over into the bball program. In short GU has become, to many, an "elitist" institution. A sorta minor Ivy. It is attracting wealthier, Higher SAT scores, students who don't have the interest in basketball that their older fellow alums (e.g. me) do. Ergo the top quality soccer and lacrosse programs. As a result, the school has problems attracting AND RETAINING the inner city, minority kids it has in the past. Face it, despite the University's best efforts GU was always a little intimidating to kids from poorer families (again me) but has obviously become much more so over the past 10 years or so. I'm sure the students are welcoming the diversity the University is promoting but it has to be hard for kids to move out of their basketball bubble into the social circle of kids whose families are paying $63K a year in tuition.

The optimist in me says it is #1 but the realist/pessimist says it is #2

Counterpoint, Duke has managed just fine despite being the same kind of place as Georgetown.

this is not a real complicated campus culture question.

If we had a coach as good as Coach K, our program would likely be just about as successful as Duke's.
If we had a coach as good as Wright, our program would likely be just about as successful as Villanova's

All the other differences between schools that are generally somewhat similar to us are fairly irrelevant. it is almost all about the quality of the coach. When we had a great coach, we had a great program (JT jr until his final few years.). When we had a good coach, we had a good program (JTIII until the last few years). When we had mediocre coaches, we had a mediocre program (Esherick and Ewing so far).

[Elvado]

Dec 4, 2020 18:05:52 GMT -5 vv83 said:

Dec 4, 2020 16:23:35 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Counterpoint, Duke has managed just fine despite being the same kind of place as Georgetown.

this is not a real complicated campus culture question.

If we had a coach as good as Coach K, our program would likely be just about as successful as Duke's.
If we had a coach as good as Wright, our program would likely be just about as successful as Villanova's

All the other differences between schools that are generally somewhat similar to us are fairly irrelevant. it is almost all about the quality of the coach. When we had a great coach, we had a great program (JT jr until his final few years.). When we had a good coach, we had a good program (JTIII until the last few years). When we had mediocre coaches, we had a mediocre program (Esherick and Ewing so far).

We have a winner.

It really is that simple.

Until Brian Wiese arrived we had a soccer program that made the very occasional NCAA appearance.

Now we are perennially a power.

Sometimes 1 plus 1 is just 2

[FrazierFanatic]

Dec 3, 2020 19:16:16 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Dec 3, 2020 18:01:30 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Chris Mullin's record at St. John's wasn't all that better than Ewing's, except he DID get an NCAA appearance in his last season, and he left/got pushed out after 4 seasons anyway. There was nobody on HoyaTalk saying it was unfair for Mullin to be fired after 4 years. The only reason it would be debatable here is because of Ewing's legendary status and the university which generally does not like to change.

A lot of this talk is very early given a 1-1 record, but I wanted to clarify a point made about Chris Mullin.

Mullin signed a six year deal in 2015, which seems to be fairly common among coaches' contracts these days. He resigned after his fourth season following the death of his younger brother. While there was fan discontent, the decision was his and not that of St. John's.

The good news is that Mullin is still very much part of the St. John's family, and perhaps that's a lesson Georgetown fans should consider with former coaches. The collective fan base does not shun a player who didn't excel in his four years the way it has with former coaches. Jack Magee is 83 and living out in Fairfax--he hasn't appeared at the University in 48 years. He was basically a .500 coach whose athletic director submarined him by scheduling a prohibitive schedule to get rid of him. Craig Esherick, a double alumnus with 23 years on the staff, lives in Arlington but hasn't been near 20057 in 16 years. He was run out for one NCAA in five years and finishing 2004 with a losing record--unthinkable then, but more common now. And even JT III took note to avoid talking about the current Hoyas on this week's phone call as if his 13 years there never happened.

While the efforts continue to repair relationships with former players, let's consider the same for coaches that played by the rules, never spoke ill of the place, and did what they could while they were there.

Esherick was axed because he made the mistake of claiming in a press conference that "I will be here for 30 years if I want" or something to that effect. He could well have been given one more year to try to turn it around if he had not made it sound like the AD had no control over him.

[the_way]

Dec 4, 2020 18:34:54 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Dec 3, 2020 19:16:16 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

A lot of this talk is very early given a 1-1 record, but I wanted to clarify a point made about Chris Mullin.

Mullin signed a six year deal in 2015, which seems to be fairly common among coaches' contracts these days. He resigned after his fourth season following the death of his younger brother. While there was fan discontent, the decision was his and not that of St. John's.

The good news is that Mullin is still very much part of the St. John's family, and perhaps that's a lesson Georgetown fans should consider with former coaches. The collective fan base does not shun a player who didn't excel in his four years the way it has with former coaches. Jack Magee is 83 and living out in Fairfax--he hasn't appeared at the University in 48 years. He was basically a .500 coach whose athletic director submarined him by scheduling a prohibitive schedule to get rid of him. Craig Esherick, a double alumnus with 23 years on the staff, lives in Arlington but hasn't been near 20057 in 16 years. He was run out for one NCAA in five years and finishing 2004 with a losing record--unthinkable then, but more common now. And even JT III took note to avoid talking about the current Hoyas on this week's phone call as if his 13 years there never happened.

While the efforts continue to repair relationships with former players, let's consider the same for coaches that played by the rules, never spoke ill of the place, and did what they could while they were there.

Esherick was axed because he made the mistake if claiming in a press conference that "I will be here for 30 years if I want" or something to that effect. He could well have been given o e more year to try to turn it around if he had not made it sound like the AD had no control over him.

Esh was axed for his job performance. He was responding with that comment to the negative chorus of people who questioned why he was still here and wanted him gone. There was a planned protest rally. Esh got his teams to a Sweet Sixteen and NIT championship game appearance. He also recruited Green and Hibbert (and Crawford).

Same type of thing with the fire JTIII chants at games for III when he hit a rut. III had a Final Four, Big East championship and tournament appearances.

That type of atmosphere isn't something one would reflect upon fondly and could leave bad blood or mixed feelings regarding their departure.

Much different than when Mullin left.

Mullin

Mullin was happy with the Red Storm's recent hiring of Mike Anderson, who was announced as the new coach Friday after he was fired at Arkansas last month.

"He's a great selection. He's got a great track record, I got friends that know him," the Hall of Famer said. "Some of my friends who played at Arkansas know him well. He's a class guy, great fit. He'll do a good job."

Mullin holds no ill will toward St. John's.

"That place and I go back to when I was 10 years old with coach [Lou] Carnesecca," he said. "It will continue. I met my wife there. It's beyond my playing and coaching there. It's a special place for me and always will be."

[hoyainla]

Dec 4, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -5 drquigley said:

I think there are two ways to look on the GU basketball program's future:

1. Like with all college bball programs we are just in a down period. Maybe a few standout recruits will turn things around. Or maybe a new coach will turn things around. But not to worry, sooner or later things will get better-- maybe not soon enough for all of us on this Board but eventually.

I don’t know any DePaul fans but I’d love to ask when they realized they went from a down period to the program being effectively a doormat. I am not saying we are dead but DePaul has better short term prospects than we do right now. That’s not a spot I thought we would ever be in.