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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 15, 2020 16:50:23 GMT -5
More loser speak...it's odd that so many people claim to be fans, yet question why a recruit would be interested in the program they claim to love. Pat has not delivered on making the program a top level one. I believe Pat can do that but until then the Hoyas are still the last place program in the BE. But if the reality of the situation seems to be too much to fathom I suggest you stop being a fan. I agree with some of what you say. But then when you say we are "still the last place program in the Big East" - which is untrue - well that can tend to raise questions about how objective you are being.
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Post by nattybumpo3152 on Mar 15, 2020 16:53:58 GMT -5
I completely agree with bicentennial and other posters who take a positive attitude toward GU basketball. Ewing said from day one that returning the program to its former elite status requires top level talent. I think he's done a great job carefully scouting the available talent, identifying the best players and building strong relationships with them. Ewing and his staff displayed an iron will to overcome all kinds of adversity and, nonetheless, persevere. Pretty impressive stuff and reveals authentic class and integrity. So, Why wouldn't Frankie Collins want to play for a man like this? Any young, immature 18 year-old would grow as a man and an athlete under Ewing's steady guidance.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,526
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Post by IDenj on Mar 15, 2020 16:56:16 GMT -5
Pat has not delivered on making the program a top level one. I believe Pat can do that but until then the Hoyas are still the last place program in the BE. But if the reality of the situation seems to be too much to fathom I suggest you stop being a fan. I agree with some of what you say. But then when you say we are "still the last place program in the Big East" - which is untrue - well that can tend to raise questions about how objective you are being. You are right. We are 9th in a 10 team league, just above DePaul.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 15, 2020 17:04:03 GMT -5
I agree with some of what you say. But then when you say we are "still the last place program in the Big East" - which is untrue - well that can tend to raise questions about how objective you are being. You are right. We are 9th in a 10 team league, just above DePaul. There you go😉 Although we were kinda 8th, especially since we beat the 9th place team 2 out of 3.
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wnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 497
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Post by wnyhoya on Mar 15, 2020 17:12:31 GMT -5
More loser speak...it's odd that so many people claim to be fans, yet question why a recruit would be interested in the program they claim to love. Pat has not delivered on making the program a top level one. I believe Pat can do that but until then the Hoyas are still the last place program in the BE. But if the reality of the situation seems to be too much to fathom I suggest you stop being a fan. Do you not realize that landing kids like Collins help get the program to that level?
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,526
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Post by IDenj on Mar 15, 2020 18:08:43 GMT -5
Pat has not delivered on making the program a top level one. I believe Pat can do that but until then the Hoyas are still the last place program in the BE. But if the reality of the situation seems to be too much to fathom I suggest you stop being a fan. Do you not realize that landing kids like Collins help get the program to that level? Absolutely. That’s why I’m amazed that people are overlooking my prevailing thought here. What’s he see in the program that no other top 50 kid has? Why is he able to look past all the negativity that surrounds the Hoyas and still be strongly considering them? I guess too many Hoya fans can’t accept what the program has become and have to lash out when it’s questioned.
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wnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 497
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Post by wnyhoya on Mar 15, 2020 18:30:24 GMT -5
Do you not realize that landing kids like Collins help get the program to that level? Absolutely. That’s why I’m amazed that people are overlooking my prevailing thought here. What’s he see in the program that no other top 50 kid has? Why is he able to look past all the negativity that surrounds the Hoyas and still be strongly considering them? I guess too many Hoya fans can’t accept what the program has become and have to lash out when it’s questioned. What did Anthony Edwards see at Georgia? Cade Cunningham at Oklahoma State? Collin Sexton at Alabama? Markelle Fultz at Washington? I could go on but the concept is that kids choose programs that aren’t in a great spot all the time. I’d argue that our history and brand are stronger than all of those schools with maybe the exception of OSU who might be equivalent to us at best. So even though we’ve struggled recently, why couldn’t Frankie Collins choose us? It’s not unprecedented, and as much as you don’t want to acknowledge it - the Georgetown brand still exists. You don’t think Frankie Collins knows who Allen Iverson is? I wonder if kids know what the Jordan Brand is? What about the away NBA teams that roll through and practice at the TAC? And as others here have posted, maybe Frankie wants a great education in one of the best cities this country has to offer. You seem to discount this. Oh, and the fact that Terrell Allen had a pretty darn good year as this team’s PG after a freshman James Akinjo last year won Big East Rookie of the Year. When you take off the negatively colored glasses there is quite a lot going on at Georgetown that Frankie could be attracted to...
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Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,480
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Post by Elvado on Mar 15, 2020 18:35:03 GMT -5
Absolutely. That’s why I’m amazed that people are overlooking my prevailing thought here. What’s he see in the program that no other top 50 kid has? Why is he able to look past all the negativity that surrounds the Hoyas and still be strongly considering them? I guess too many Hoya fans can’t accept what the program has become and have to lash out when it’s questioned. What did Anthony Edwards see at Georgia? Cade Cunningham at Oklahoma State? Collin Sexton at Alabama? Markelle Fultz at Washington? I could go on but the concept is that kids choose programs that aren’t in a great spot all the time. I’d argue that our history and brand are stronger than all of those schools with maybe the exception of OSU who might be equivalent to us at best. So even though we’ve struggled recently, why couldn’t Frankie Collins choose us? It’s not unprecedented, and as much as you don’t want to acknowledge it - the Georgetown brand still exists. You don’t think Frankie Collins knows who Allen Iverson is? I wonder if kids know what the Jordan Brand is? What about the away NBA teams that roll through and practice at the TAC? And as others here have posted, maybe Frankie wants a great education in one of the best cities this country has to offer. You seem to discount this. Oh, and the fact that Terrell Allen had a pretty darn good year as this team’s PG after a freshman James Akinjo last year won Big East Rookie of the Year. When you take off the negatively colored glasses there is quite a lot going on at Georgetown that Frankie could be attracted to... Well said. I remember a player named James Nelson who went to a down St Joe program and that turned out pretty well...
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,526
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Post by IDenj on Mar 15, 2020 18:37:31 GMT -5
Absolutely. That’s why I’m amazed that people are overlooking my prevailing thought here. What’s he see in the program that no other top 50 kid has? Why is he able to look past all the negativity that surrounds the Hoyas and still be strongly considering them? I guess too many Hoya fans can’t accept what the program has become and have to lash out when it’s questioned. What did Anthony Edwards see at Georgia? Cade Cunningham at Oklahoma State? Collin Sexton at Alabama? Markelle Fultz at Washington? I could go on but the concept is that kids choose programs that aren’t in a great spot all the time. What could a big football school offer a top recruit to go to their school? I wonder...
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,526
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Post by IDenj on Mar 15, 2020 18:39:06 GMT -5
What did Anthony Edwards see at Georgia? Cade Cunningham at Oklahoma State? Collin Sexton at Alabama? Markelle Fultz at Washington? I could go on but the concept is that kids choose programs that aren’t in a great spot all the time. I’d argue that our history and brand are stronger than all of those schools with maybe the exception of OSU who might be equivalent to us at best. So even though we’ve struggled recently, why couldn’t Frankie Collins choose us? It’s not unprecedented, and as much as you don’t want to acknowledge it - the Georgetown brand still exists. You don’t think Frankie Collins knows who Allen Iverson is? I wonder if kids know what the Jordan Brand is? What about the away NBA teams that roll through and practice at the TAC? And as others here have posted, maybe Frankie wants a great education in one of the best cities this country has to offer. You seem to discount this. Oh, and the fact that Terrell Allen had a pretty darn good year as this team’s PG after a freshman James Akinjo last year won Big East Rookie of the Year. When you take off the negatively colored glasses there is quite a lot going on at Georgetown that Frankie could be attracted to... Well said. I remember a player named James Nelson who went to a down St Joe program and that turned out pretty well... And I’d like to hear what Nelsons reasoning was for jumping from his class to go to St Joe’s.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 15, 2020 19:09:05 GMT -5
Absolutely. That’s why I’m amazed that people are overlooking my prevailing thought here. What’s he see in the program that no other top 50 kid has? Why is he able to look past all the negativity that surrounds the Hoyas and still be strongly considering them? I guess too many Hoya fans can’t accept what the program has become and have to lash out when it’s questioned. What did Anthony Edwards see at Georgia? Cade Cunningham at Oklahoma State? Collin Sexton at Alabama? Markelle Fultz at Washington? I could go on but the concept is that kids choose programs that aren’t in a great spot all the time. I’d argue that our history and brand are stronger than all of those schools with maybe the exception of OSU who might be equivalent to us at best. So even though we’ve struggled recently, why couldn’t Frankie Collins choose us? It’s not unprecedented, and as much as you don’t want to acknowledge it - the Georgetown brand still exists. You don’t think Frankie Collins knows who Allen Iverson is? I wonder if kids know what the Jordan Brand is? What about the away NBA teams that roll through and practice at the TAC? And as others here have posted, maybe Frankie wants a great education in one of the best cities this country has to offer. You seem to discount this. Oh, and the fact that Terrell Allen had a pretty darn good year as this team’s PG after a freshman James Akinjo last year won Big East Rookie of the Year. When you take off the negatively colored glasses there is quite a lot going on at Georgetown that Frankie could be attracted to... A duffel bag full of Benjamins
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Mar 15, 2020 19:24:20 GMT -5
Would be awesome to land Collins and Mutombo for ‘21. That would change the trajectory. Agreed 100%. Is there any news on Collins's potential to reclass? He could really help the team next year, too. It would change a lot. A really nice four guard rotation, with two who can be main ball handlers and could learn to play together and two scorers in Mac and Blair who are going to help alleviate some pressure from the freshmen. In this hypothetical, I'd want Harris to redshirt btw, I'm not forgetting about him. But, if the staff believes he can play a good role and consistent minutes, let him play. Though, having five guards play two spots may lead to chaos. Unless we go with three guards every game, ideally we'd redshirt one of the five. At least that's my view. Not saying it's the only way to succeed, but I'm saying it's my personal preference. But having Collins would be gigantic in both years. If he's willing to come, you take him every time. The kid can flat out play. I would love to have him.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,123
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 15, 2020 19:34:24 GMT -5
Absolutely. That’s why I’m amazed that people are overlooking my prevailing thought here. What’s he see in the program that no other top 50 kid has? Why is he able to look past all the negativity that surrounds the Hoyas and still be strongly considering them? I guess too many Hoya fans can’t accept what the program has become and have to lash out when it’s questioned. What did Anthony Edwards see at Georgia? Cade Cunningham at Oklahoma State? Collin Sexton at Alabama? Markelle Fultz at Washington? I could go on but the concept is that kids choose programs that aren’t in a great spot all the time. I’d argue that our history and brand are stronger than all of those schools with maybe the exception of OSU who might be equivalent to us at best. So even though we’ve struggled recently, why couldn’t Frankie Collins choose us? It’s not unprecedented, and as much as you don’t want to acknowledge it - the Georgetown brand still exists. You don’t think Frankie Collins knows who Allen Iverson is? I wonder if kids know what the Jordan Brand is? What about the away NBA teams that roll through and practice at the TAC? And as others here have posted, maybe Frankie wants a great education in one of the best cities this country has to offer. You seem to discount this. Oh, and the fact that Terrell Allen had a pretty darn good year as this team’s PG after a freshman James Akinjo last year won Big East Rookie of the Year. When you take off the negatively colored glasses there is quite a lot going on at Georgetown that Frankie could be attracted to... Great post. The only thing I'd add would be that while Collins is great and hopefully is one of our top targets in '21 (along with Ryan Mutombo and a couple others), he is ranked 66th in the country on Rivals and 70th on 247. That's by no means out of our range, and in fact is the exact range we should be focusing in on. Ewing has landed players in that range on a couple other occasions, and there are dozens of examples every year of teams coming off of disappointing seasons landing recruits in the 50-100 range. I'm not sure why Collins interest in Georgetown--which is obviously real given that he took an official visit--is so difficult to believe.
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Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 556
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Post by Omega on Mar 15, 2020 20:56:35 GMT -5
Do you not realize that landing kids like Collins help get the program to that level? Absolutely. That’s why I’m amazed that people are overlooking my prevailing thought here. What’s he see in the program that no other top 50 kid has? Why is he able to look past all the negativity that surrounds the Hoyas and still be strongly considering them? I guess too many Hoya fans can’t accept what the program has become and have to lash out when it’s questioned. This is the type of person who wonders why their significant other chose them when there were better choices available. Why did I get the job when there were better candidates. And on and on and on.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,526
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Post by IDenj on Mar 15, 2020 21:21:46 GMT -5
Absolutely. That’s why I’m amazed that people are overlooking my prevailing thought here. What’s he see in the program that no other top 50 kid has? Why is he able to look past all the negativity that surrounds the Hoyas and still be strongly considering them? I guess too many Hoya fans can’t accept what the program has become and have to lash out when it’s questioned. This is the type of person who wonders why their significant other chose them when there were better choices available. Why did I get the job when there were better candidates. And on and on and on. You can’t be this obtuse.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,526
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Post by IDenj on Mar 15, 2020 21:25:54 GMT -5
What did Anthony Edwards see at Georgia? Cade Cunningham at Oklahoma State? Collin Sexton at Alabama? Markelle Fultz at Washington? I could go on but the concept is that kids choose programs that aren’t in a great spot all the time. I’d argue that our history and brand are stronger than all of those schools with maybe the exception of OSU who might be equivalent to us at best. So even though we’ve struggled recently, why couldn’t Frankie Collins choose us? It’s not unprecedented, and as much as you don’t want to acknowledge it - the Georgetown brand still exists. You don’t think Frankie Collins knows who Allen Iverson is? I wonder if kids know what the Jordan Brand is? What about the away NBA teams that roll through and practice at the TAC? And as others here have posted, maybe Frankie wants a great education in one of the best cities this country has to offer. You seem to discount this. Oh, and the fact that Terrell Allen had a pretty darn good year as this team’s PG after a freshman James Akinjo last year won Big East Rookie of the Year. When you take off the negatively colored glasses there is quite a lot going on at Georgetown that Frankie could be attracted to... Great post. The only thing I'd add would be that while Collins is great and hopefully is one of our top targets in '21 (along with Ryan Mutombo and a couple others), he is ranked 66th in the country on Rivals and 70th on 247. That's by no means out of our range, and in fact is the exact range we should be focusing in on. Ewing has landed players in that range on a couple other occasions, and there are dozens of examples every year of teams coming off of disappointing seasons landing recruits in the 50-100 range. I'm not sure why Collins interest in Georgetown--which is obviously real given that he took an official visit--is so difficult to believe. Let’s see if he jumps into the 20 class and becomes a Hoya. If that happens then like I said I’d be curious to know his reasoning. He isn’t a senior where time is running out to make a decision. He’s a junior looking at making move to a program that is currently a 50-100 range school. That’s not a normal move.
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Post by hoyavafan1 on Mar 15, 2020 21:31:57 GMT -5
You're basically working on behalf of all the other teams. Makes their job easy when you are doing it for them. I agree that someone posting negative statements like this is not a fan of the program. I often wonder if they are a staff member for a rival Big East team. We live in a world where negative advertising is used for many purposes, not just during the election cycle. One of the many problems with boards like this one is that the identity of the poster cannot be ascertained and can negatively influence recruits. So true.....
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,733
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 15, 2020 21:40:24 GMT -5
A duffel bag full of Benjamins These one-off statements either reflect a myopic view of the rest of the country or of college recruiting. I don't know which one is at play here but it bears the same strains of the prototypical Note Dame football fan who wonders why every top recruit doesn't play there, either. (Answer? it's not 1988 and Lou Holtz isn't there anymore.) Why would a player go anywhere else than Georgetown? Well, maybe he's got a good relationship with one of the coaches in Athens. Maybe the campus is is little more spread out in Seattle and you're not the constant center of attention there. Maybe the girls are cuter in Tuscaloosa (They are.) Maybe he likes the idea of driving a car to college and the local nightlife is something he won't get in Washington. We don't know all the variables, but in the simplest of terms it usually comes down to three questions: 1)Can I grow into an NBA prospect there? 2)Do I want to play for this coach? and 3)Can I win? These are three questions that, but not for a lack of trying, Patrick Ewing hasn't sold on many recruits, leading him to take a flyer on the Chris Sodoms and Galen Alexanders of the world with sadly predictable results. Ewing's batting about .500 on recruiting current players versus losing them as transfers and that, as much as anything, is driving his approach right now.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 15, 2020 21:52:45 GMT -5
A duffel bag full of Benjamins These one-off statements either reflect a myopic view of the rest of the country or of college recruiting, I don't know which one is at play here but it bears the same strains of the prototypical Note Dame football fan who wonders why every top recruit doesn't play there, either. (Answer? it's not 1988 and Lou Holtz isn't there anymore.) Why would a player go anywhere else by Georgetown? Well, maybe he's got a good relationship with one of the coaches in Athens. Maybe the campus is bigger in Seattle and you're not the constant center of attention. Maybe the girls are cuter in Tuscaloosa (They are.) Maybe he likes the idea of driving a car to college and the local nightlife at some other school is something he won't get in Washington. In the simplest of terms, it usually comes down to three questions: 1)Can I grow into an NBA prospect there? 2) Do I want to play for this coach? and 3) Can I win? These are three questions that, but not for a lack of trying, Patrick Ewing hasn't sold on many recruits, leading him to take a flyer on the Chris Sodoms and Galen Alexanders of the world with sadly predictable results. Ewing's batting about .500 on recruiting current players versus losing them as transfers and that, as much as anything, is driving his approach right now. Since you clearly like to take every comment wayyyyy too seriously, I’ll provide a counter to your “3 Questions” theory. 1) The players listed as examples are going to the NBA no matter what. It doesn’t matter where they play. They’re the best of the best and they’re one-and-dones for a reason. 3) it’s pretty obvious that kids with one-and-done talent don’t always care about winning. Many of them have played at mediocre programs on bad teams and still ended up lottery picks anyway. I don’t think winning means a hill of beans to many of them. Which brings us to question #2, do I want to play for this coach? And it’s pretty indisputable at this point that a majority of coaches in division I basketball are buying these recruits. Is it “a duffel bag full of Benjamin’s”? No probably not, but if you think they’re going to these “football schools” and wasting a year of their lives playing on bad basketball teams because they feel some kind of unbreakable bond with the coach, then perhaps you’re the one with the myopic view. Because if you think that all of a sudden college basketball is on the up and up because a few assistant coaches went to jail, then you need to pull your head out of the sand. These kids are going to these schools for a number of reasons. None of those reasons are NBA prep, coaching, or winning.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,733
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 15, 2020 22:02:33 GMT -5
Since you clearly like to take every comment wayyyyy too seriously, I’ll provide a counter to your “3 Questions” theory. Guilty as charged. I don't pick up nuance very well in life and freely admit it.
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