|
Post by Ranch Dressing on Nov 25, 2019 7:02:48 GMT -5
Didn’t we go through this last season? And didn’t we play better once Josh was starting. It’s like dejavu all over again.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 25, 2019 7:39:10 GMT -5
Josh needs to start. I don’t know what the infraction was, so hard to assess the full picture, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 25, 2019 7:48:51 GMT -5
Its simply because LeBlanc was disciplined, lost his starting job as punishment and was demoted. And now has to work his way back up along with Jagan or Pickett playing poorly to regain the starting spot. That’s all there is to it. Either way, it is a bitter pill to swallow as a fan. I get the discipline part, but "work his way back up" I don't get. We need our best players out there on the floor. Right now, Yurt is charged with doing too much; that is part of the reason why he is committing so many fouls. I feel the same way, that Yurt7's foul trouble is directly proportional to starting a 3 smallie guard lineup along with a wing (Pickett). To actually active big like LeBlance will go along way in aiding Yurt7 defensively. But Jagan has been playing decent, especially defensively (with all the charges he is drawing). So he or Pickett (Duke game) has to mess up to lose their spot. This is the kind of order and fairness you need if you want to be a true leader and great coach. If it were me, Blair would never play. But Coach will gives people chances to show what they have and gives them opportunities (Jagan). This keeps the role players involved and hungry. Be ready when your opportunity comes, next man up. No player is more important than the team. As long as Ewing is consistent with his structure, then the players will respect that and buy in. Everyone knows that you have to listen to coach (Derrickson Do you want to play for me, Sodom, Walker) but yet you have to keep ingraining the discipline to the kids. If you let is slide for someone because they are too important or a favorite, that lowers morale and fragments the team.
|
|
|
Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 25, 2019 8:05:48 GMT -5
Either way, it is a bitter pill to swallow as a fan. I get the discipline part, but "work his way back up" I don't get. We need our best players out there on the floor. Right now, Yurt is charged with doing too much; that is part of the reason why he is committing so many fouls. I feel the same way, that Yurt7's foul trouble is directly proportional to starting a 3 smallie guard lineup along with a wing (Pickett). To actually active big like LeBlance will go along way in aiding Yurt7 defensively. But Jagan has been playing decent, especially defensively (with all the charges he is drawing). So he or Pickett (Duke game) has to mess up to lose their spot. This is the kind of order and fairness you need if you want to be a true leader and great coach. If it were me, Blair would never play. But Coach will gives people chances to show what they have and gives them opportunities (Jagan). This keeps the role players involved and hungry. Be ready when your opportunity comes, next man up. No player is more important than the team. As long as Ewing is consistent with his structure, then the players will respect that and buy in. Everyone knows that you have to listen to coach (Derrickson Do you want to play for me, Sodom, Walker) but yet you have to keep ingraining the discipline to the kids. If you let is slide for someone because they are too important or a favorite, that lowers morale and fragments the team. Points well taken. Of course, we don’t know the severity of Josh’s infraction either. My last comment on the subject is that I hope we can solve the problem with Yurt’ seemingly inability to stay on the floor.
|
|
CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,861
|
Post by CTHoya08 on Nov 25, 2019 8:14:59 GMT -5
I appreciate that Ewing runs a tight ship, but I hope that keeping Leblanc out of the starting lineup isn't some kind of extended mini-suspension. I don't think lifting the suspension, and then playing him--but not quite enough for him to be of optimal help to the team--makes much sense from the perspective of discipline or trying to win.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 25, 2019 8:29:20 GMT -5
I appreciate that Ewing runs a tight ship, but I hope that keeping Leblanc out of the starting lineup isn't some kind of extended mini-suspension. I don't think lifting the suspension, and then playing him--but not quite enough for him to be of optimal help to the team--makes much sense from the perspective of discipline or trying to win. Like I said it's not a suspension as much as the infraction cost him his starting job and now he has to re-earn his starting job. You can't take your starting job for granted no matter how good you are if you are thinking of "I" instead of the "Team". (That's the message to the team). You see this in amateur wrestling alot but more pronounced. You have one starter for each weight class that participates in the match. The "bench"/backup never competes in the matches. So if there is some infraction and a starter is demoted then he may not compete at all that season for the team (he would have to compete in independent tournaments instead of for the team/school). In that case the starter is "benched" and the new starter keeps going unless he proves that he isn't capable which opens the window for the original starter to return. Fortunately in basketball, you can still get alot of PT off the bench. Jagan is setting a good example by listening and following orders, showing effort and heart and just playing, having fun, and enjoying the game. To demote someone like that for no reason would set a bad precedent, so as long as the team keeps winning and competing and he keeps producing then Jagan won't lose his starting job. I think Picket is more likely to lose his starting job to LeBlanc after his lackadaisical play at Duke.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,754
|
Post by blueandgray on Nov 25, 2019 9:10:27 GMT -5
Guys....having Josh come off the bench at this point has absolutely nothing to do with him having not been allowed to play in the opening game. Ewing doesn’t hold grudges. At this point he likes the spark that Josh brings off the bench....even if it means he comes in at the 18 minute mark as he did against Texas.
Amazing how some people create a storyline in their heads and stick to it at all costs.
|
|
|
Post by bigelephant on Nov 25, 2019 9:48:42 GMT -5
It's more than a storyline and less than a story. Josh will play and play a big big (sic) role in the 2019-20 Hoyas
|
|
playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 245
|
Post by playtyler on Nov 25, 2019 9:52:24 GMT -5
No storyline BandG. Josh started last year and was great. He did not play in the first game of the season. He hasn't started a game since. He has been our best player the last two years (equally strong argument could be made for Akinjo). He is clearly in the doghouse. It's too bad because it really sets us back. See how we have started in most games (or beginning of second half against Duke). Also agree on fouls against Yurt (most of which are Yurt's fault). Josh is our best help defender and with Pickett at 4 there is not enough size against the bigger teams (Texas/Duke) to defend the interior and rebound.
Mosely played 25 minutes and scored zero points and had 5 turnovers against Duke. The idea that he is not in danger of losing his starting job to Leblanc is not crazy Professor.
What he has done YoYoing Pickett's minutes over the last two years and with Leblanc this year are very difficult to understand.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 25, 2019 10:37:33 GMT -5
Hmmm. Should I believe someone who actually talks to staff and knows what's going on? Or speculators who pretend to? Tough call.
I'm gonna go with the former.
Does that mean things won't change if Jagan or Jamorko struggles and Coach decides starting Josh is more important than having a spark off the bench? Of course not. But this theory that Patrick is still punishing him for whatever the violation was weeks ago isn't happening.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,302
|
Post by prhoya on Nov 25, 2019 11:24:55 GMT -5
Guys....having Josh come off the bench at this point has absolutely nothing to do with him having not been allowed to play in the opening game. Ewing doesn’t hold grudges. At this point he likes the spark that Josh brings off the bench....even if it means he comes in at the 18 minute mark as he did against Texas. Amazing how some people create a storyline in their heads and stick to it at all costs. If Josh is going to come in at the 18 min mark, could Pat try giving those two minutes to Alexander instead of Jagan? Maybe that gets Alexander going and we have another offensive threat on the court, not just a good defender not interested in shooting in 25 minutes?
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 25, 2019 11:53:20 GMT -5
Hmmm. Should I believe someone who actually talks to staff and knows what's going on? Or speculators who pretend to? Tough call. I'm gonna go with the former. Does that mean things won't change if Jagan or Jamorko struggles and Coach decides starting Josh is more important than having a spark off the bench? Of course not. But this theory that Patrick is still punishing him for whatever the violation was weeks ago isn't happening. The punishment is not ongoing. It was the first game and he was demoted in the first game. Jagan is now the starter. And it’s his and Picketts position to lose. I do think we will see LeBlanc starting again sooner than later.
|
|
|
Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 25, 2019 12:28:30 GMT -5
No storyline BandG. Josh started last year and was great. He did not play in the first game of the season. He hasn't started a game since. He has been our best player the last two years (equally strong argument could be made for Akinjo). He is clearly in the doghouse. It's too bad because it really sets us back. See how we have started in most games (or beginning of second half against Duke). Also agree on fouls against Yurt (most of which are Yurt's fault). Josh is our best help defender and with Pickett at 4 there is not enough size against the bigger teams (Texas/Duke) to defend the interior and rebound. Mosely played 25 minutes and scored zero points and had 5 turnovers against Duke. The idea that he is not in danger of losing his starting job to Leblanc is not crazy Professor. What he has done YoYoing Pickett's minutes over the last two years and with Leblanc this year are very difficult to understand. Hhm! I didn’t realize that Mosely played 25 minutes in the Duke game and scored zero points. That’s disconcerting in and of itself. Totally get the fact that he is a great defender—the charges are executed almost flawlessly. Are you sure about those stats?
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 25, 2019 12:33:09 GMT -5
I don't believe that is at all what is happening, not to mention that it would still be a "punishment" to make Josh wait until someone lost their spot to him. It is not a matter of Jagan or Jamarko having to "lose" a starting spot - if it was, they each have played poorly enough at times to do that. Even before blueandgray provided his information it seemed clear to me that Patrick is trying out Josh as the spark off the bench - especially since we really don't have anyone else to fill that role right now.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 25, 2019 13:15:56 GMT -5
I don't believe that is at all what is happening, not to mention that it would still be a "punishment" to make Josh wait until someone lost their spot to him. It is not a matter of Jagan or Jamarko having to "lose" a starting spot - if it was, they each have played poorly enough at times to do that. Even before blueandgray provided his information it seemed clear to me that Patrick is trying out Josh as the spark off the bench - especially since we really don't have anyone else to fill that role right now. So under your line of thinking, what were they “trying” out in the first game? How to energize the seats?
|
|
playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 245
|
Post by playtyler on Nov 25, 2019 13:26:57 GMT -5
Frazier - I think that Alexander, Mosely and maybe even Blair could provide that "spark" off the bench. It doesn't really matter who is starting (other than psychological for the kids), it matters how we are doing with different lineups/personnel. My comments are as much about Pickett as Josh. Pickett has been one of our best and most improved players this year. He had some tough moments in the Duke game, but I don't know if it warranted benching him for almost entire second half, when we needed points to come back and we have Mosely, Allen, Wahab, Gardner, Blair out there, none of whom are going to score, effectively playing down a man or two on offense on every possession. They didn't guard Allen and you saw what happened. Gardner took one shot in 13 minutes. Mosely took one shot in 25 minutes.
|
|
hoyasaxa2003
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,847
Member is Online
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 25, 2019 13:51:41 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I think this "spark off the bench" strategy makes no sense when it causes you to keep one of your five best players on the bench. Someone else mentioned about Josh being a spark and changing the dynamic when he comes in. Well, perhaps if he started, there'd be no need to change the dynamic?
I think it's fair to ask these questions. Last year, Ewing did not start LeBlanc until Dec. 22, and that was only because Mourning got a concussion, and by the time Mourning came back, LeBlanc was clearly so much better than Mourning that LeBlanc continued to start, even though at times Mourning still played way too much.
Obviously, the coach knows more about the players than we do, he sees them in practice, etc. but there is no logical reason to play one of your best five players like he's a guy on the bench. For what it's worth, if LeBlanc started on the bench, and played 30 minutes, I wouldn't care as much, but that's not how he is being used.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 25, 2019 14:21:19 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I think this "spark off the bench" strategy makes no sense when it causes you to keep one of your five best players on the bench. Someone else mentioned about Josh being a spark and changing the dynamic when he comes in. Well, perhaps if he started, there'd be no need to change the dynamic? I think it's fair to ask these questions. Last year, Ewing did not start LeBlanc until Dec. 22, and that was only because Mourning got a concussion, and by the time Mourning came back, LeBlanc was clearly so much better than Mourning that LeBlanc continued to start, even though at times Mourning still played way too much. Obviously, the coach knows more about the players than we do, he sees them in practice, etc. but there is no logical reason to play one of your best five players like he's a guy on the bench. For what it's worth, if LeBlanc started on the bench, and played 30 minutes, I wouldn't care as much, but that's not how he is being used. I think if you have a great coach and leader these kinds of things stay in house and there are no leaks. When Buddy Ryan abruptly cut Chris Carter from the eagles the reason he gave was that “all Cris Carter does is catch touchdowns.” Buddy was ridiculed for years for that comment but what Buddy was actually doing was protecting Cris Carter because the real reason he was cut was because he has a substance abuse problem. Years later Carter appreciated the fact that Buddy never revealed the real reason Carter was cut and Buddy accepted coming off as a Idiotic buffoon for cutting a pro bowler who only caught touchdowns. Now with LeBlanc I don’t think it’s anything serious like that. More something like oversleeping or missing one class a single time. Point is a great leader will protect his men even at the cost of making what he says not make sense.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 25, 2019 14:29:52 GMT -5
I don't believe that is at all what is happening, not to mention that it would still be a "punishment" to make Josh wait until someone lost their spot to him. It is not a matter of Jagan or Jamarko having to "lose" a starting spot - if it was, they each have played poorly enough at times to do that. Even before blueandgray provided his information it seemed clear to me that Patrick is trying out Josh as the spark off the bench - especially since we really don't have anyone else to fill that role right now. So under your line of thinking, what were they “trying” out in the first game? How to energize the seats? The first game - where Josh did not play because he violated a team rule?
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 25, 2019 15:05:17 GMT -5
Frazier - I think that Alexander, Mosely and maybe even Blair could provide that "spark" off the bench. It doesn't really matter who is starting (other than psychological for the kids), it matters how we are doing with different lineups/personnel. My comments are as much about Pickett as Josh. Pickett has been one of our best and most improved players this year. He had some tough moments in the Duke game, but I don't know if it warranted benching him for almost entire second half, when we needed points to come back and we have Mosely, Allen, Wahab, Gardner, Blair out there, none of whom are going to score, effectively playing down a man or two on offense on every possession. They didn't guard Allen and you saw what happened. Gardner took one shot in 13 minutes. Mosely took one shot in 25 minutes. Josh brings a level of energy and intensity - at BOTH ends of the floor - that you don't come close to with Blair. Moseley is close, but mostly on the defensive end. We have only seen snippets of Alexander so we can't say what level he can bring - but Patrick sees him every day, so I will trust his evaluations. As for Jamarko, against Duke he reverted to his issues last year, especially after the brain freeze at the start of the second half. He started to speed things up about half a step too fast, and everything was off. So he sat and watched. And hopefully learned (again). We can certainly disagree about Josh starting or subbing. I just believe that as blueandgray indicated, it is pretty much solely about Patrick feeling Josh is more useful, on this particular team, coming in to, yes, give us a spark. If it doesn't work I think Ewing will recognize it and make a change.
|
|