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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 28, 2016 11:59:43 GMT -5
I'm not speaking for everyone, but personally, my gripe is not that he has performed badly. Maybe in my initial post it seemed that way, so that was probably a bit misleading. My gripe is that, from my standpoint, he's made no discernible improvements in any facet of the game from last year to this year so far. He's still pretty good at the same things he was pretty good at last year, and he's still bad at the same things he was bad at last year. And yes, there's a reason he's been stapled to the bench in recent games. And it's because he's just as abhorrent defensively as he was last year. And he still can't get an offensive rebound. And he still can't hold on to the ball. And he still doesn't finish with any kind of authority around the rim. He hasn't improved at all. And he's not the only one. It's a common theme recently. That's fair. So far, I am not seeing huge improvement from Govan either. I am confident he will play more minutes as the year goes on - and hopefully he will improve.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 28, 2016 12:20:10 GMT -5
Govan seems to have trouble just catching the ball. The effort needs to improve as well. No sense of urgency- this goes for others, not just Jessie.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 12:34:38 GMT -5
The decision-making makes me wonder sometimes. There were two possessions late-ish in the game (the last 6-8 minutes or so?) that were head-scratchers. We were up maybe 8 or 9 points for both of them.
On one, we crossed mid-court and Marcus got the ball on the left wing, in three point range. Thought about the shot, gave a shoulder fake. The defender backed off, Marcus shot the three and missed.
On the other, Tre had the ball on the right wing, got a screen up high and took a long (albeit uncontested) two and missed.
In both cases, we probably had 20-24 seconds on the shot clock. No effort to run any offense, just a couple of long-distance chucks. The ball never got closer than 15-16 feet from the hoop. Neither was a "bad" shot. But at that point in the game, with a decent lead, take 10-12 seconds and try to seek out something better. Those shots will still be available when there's 5 seconds left on the shot clock - no need to take them 15 seconds early.
To me, that's what "basketball IQ" is all about - understanding the game situation and playing accordingly.
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Post by trillesthoya on Nov 28, 2016 12:51:05 GMT -5
One thing I forgot to mention that I don't think has been discussed enough, Agau has REALLY good passing skills. I was rewatching some of the plays from yesterday and there are a bunch of times where he finds the open shooter. He had five assists throughout the game, and probably could have had more if people connected on their shots more. He might be the best passing big JT3 has had in a while.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 28, 2016 13:14:00 GMT -5
I think that Tre is improved but still tends to play out of control. I also am happy his shot was falling yesterday, but then he comes down court pulls up from 5 feet behind the 3 pt line and launches a shot early in the shot clock. The shot was short and it simply magnifies the problems this kid has in terms of judgment. Pryor is a very solid shooter and has the shooter's mindset, but the coaches need to encourage him to pass more often. He really does not have a good handle and loses the ball while trying to dribble through traffic. Right now, even with some warts, LJ is clearly the best guard on the team. I would like to see some line-ups against bigger teams with LJ and Pryor along with a big lineup that involves Derrickson/Copeland, Agau and Hayes/Govan. I know that there are defensive issues with this line-up, but there have been defensive issues with every line-up that we have rolled out.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 28, 2016 13:17:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but schools like GU that don't have tons of top prospects knocking down our doors have to be sure that they use their scholarships judiciously. We just can't afford to give scholarships to guys who, by their sophomore years, are playing less than 10 minutes a game. Especially when you had expected that guy to help us control the paint. I hope I'm dead wrong and Jesse comes around and by next year is a solid contributor to this team. But if you're like me, and my buddies, you have to cringe when Jesse touches the ball down low or finds himself trying to defend under the basket. Eagle said the board ran you off! I guess not, huh!
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Nov 28, 2016 14:43:23 GMT -5
My friends we are in a transition period with the team. From a walk the ball up court team to a faster paced team. From a team that strictly relies on a Princeton based offense to provide points to a team that can manufacture points through turnovers caused by defensive pressure. It's going to take time an effort from both the players and the coaches, and it will be ugly at times as we have seen. I still hold out hope that III sees and understands what's needed for the complete transition to take place. You can understand how players recruited to play in a certain system(Princeton) where their ability to hit the 3pt shot was emphasized over other attributes, now are reluctant to emphasize other attributes such as running the floor, playing pressure defense and rebounding. Govan,Cameron,Copeland, Campbell, and Derrickson come to mind. There is no question in my mind that their ability to hit the 3pt shot was the top attribute that put them on III's recruiting radar. More than likely they were told that during the recruiting period and the idea of them floating behind the 3pt line for most of their careers here glad some impact on thei decision to come to Georgetown. Now, they are being told ,that while we still like your ability to hit the 3pt shot, we want you to prioritize other attributes such as ability to run, play pressure defense and rebound. These players have been slow to adjust to the change, if they really can at all. Cameron and Govan are the slowest afoot so the change would be hardest for them.Copeland, Campbell and Derrickson will find it a little easier. Campbell is a good kid but lacks the require attributes of a true pg, which will be needed to make the transition complete. Copeland has improved on defense especially when he is one of the first two defenders to trap. It's going to be a slow process.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 28, 2016 15:01:44 GMT -5
The signs I have seen were all critical of the coach, who is a highly paid professional. If there were signs about players I missed them. Because it's unacceptable to go after young men for their shortcomings. I'm not saying that the coach shouldn't be criticized. But it's not remotely as though the players are faultless. Point to one instance where a home crowd put up signs ripping their own players. I'd bet you, literally, can't find one instance of that having happened. OK? Maybe you responded to the wrong post.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 28, 2016 16:26:09 GMT -5
We played well. Thrilled to see our man, Tre Campbell, hitting those 3's. Also, happy to see Derrickson not giving up on his shot. That's what playing in a few patsy games will allow our guys to do. Not that Howard was a St. Leo by any stretch. The new line up helps. But we have to get our guys hitting those 3's and the more of them hitting the 3's the better. I am not advocating jacking up 3's all over the place; just saying it is a regular tool in today's college game. Rodney Pryor is just straight up money. Thought Agau had a good game as well. Still waiting to see Govan become that beast down low that he needs to become. A little disappointed in Hayes shooting. To conclude, we still have a ways to go before conference play. Got a chance to see Xaviar; they are good.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Nov 28, 2016 18:02:48 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but schools like GU that don't have tons of top prospects knocking down our doors have to be sure that they use their scholarships judiciously. We just can't afford to give scholarships to guys who, by their sophomore years, are playing less than 10 minutes a game. Especially when you had expected that guy to help us control the paint. I hope I'm dead wrong and Jesse comes around and by next year is a solid contributor to this team. But if you're like me, and my buddies, you have to cringe when Jesse touches the ball down low or finds himself trying to defend under the basket. Eagle said the board ran you off! I guess not, huh! Unlike some Board members, I like to wait and see how the Hoyas are actually performing before putting up comments. Way too much early discussion on Kenner performance and wishful thinking about new arrivals. I think we now have seen enough to make some insightful comments.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 28, 2016 20:23:34 GMT -5
The decision-making makes me wonder sometimes. There were two possessions late-ish in the game (the last 6-8 minutes or so?) that were head-scratchers. We were up maybe 8 or 9 points for both of them. On one, we crossed mid-court and Marcus got the ball on the left wing, in three point range. Thought about the shot, gave a shoulder fake. The defender backed off, Marcus shot the three and missed. On the other, Tre had the ball on the right wing, got a screen up high and took a long (albeit uncontested) two and missed. In both cases, we probably had 20-24 seconds on the shot clock. No effort to run any offense, just a couple of long-distance chucks. The ball never got closer than 15-16 feet from the hoop. Neither was a "bad" shot. But at that point in the game, with a decent lead, take 10-12 seconds and try to seek out something better. Those shots will still be available when there's 5 seconds left on the shot clock - no need to take them 15 seconds early. To me, that's what "basketball IQ" is all about - understanding the game situation and playing accordingly. Count me in the camp that understands going for the kill shot when you're either having a hot day or one of the teams best shooters trying to get back in form and experience in those type of situations. Especially when the opponent literally doesn't have the talent to beat you.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Nov 28, 2016 22:56:56 GMT -5
The decision-making makes me wonder sometimes. There were two possessions late-ish in the game (the last 6-8 minutes or so?) that were head-scratchers. We were up maybe 8 or 9 points for both of them. On one, we crossed mid-court and Marcus got the ball on the left wing, in three point range. Thought about the shot, gave a shoulder fake. The defender backed off, Marcus shot the three and missed. On the other, Tre had the ball on the right wing, got a screen up high and took a long (albeit uncontested) two and missed. In both cases, we probably had 20-24 seconds on the shot clock. No effort to run any offense, just a couple of long-distance chucks. The ball never got closer than 15-16 feet from the hoop. Neither was a "bad" shot. But at that point in the game, with a decent lead, take 10-12 seconds and try to seek out something better. Those shots will still be available when there's 5 seconds left on the shot clock - no need to take them 15 seconds early. To me, that's what "basketball IQ" is all about - understanding the game situation and playing accordingly. Count me in the camp that understands going for the kill shot when you're either having a hot day or one of the teams best shooters trying to get back in form and experience in those type of situations. Especially when the opponent literally doesn't have the talent to beat you. Count me in too.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 28, 2016 23:32:57 GMT -5
Because it's unacceptable to go after young men for their shortcomings. I'm not saying that the coach shouldn't be criticized. But it's not remotely as though the players are faultless. Point to one instance where a home crowd put up signs ripping their own players. I'd bet you, literally, can't find one instance of that having happened. OK? Maybe you responded to the wrong post. My apologies, guru. I misunderstood the tenor of the back and forth and I did, also, respond to the wrong post.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 28, 2016 23:43:01 GMT -5
Eagle said the board ran you off! I guess not, huh! Unlike some Board members, I like to wait and see how the Hoyas are actually performing before putting up comments. Way too much early discussion on Kenner performance and wishful thinking about new arrivals. I think we now have seen enough to make some insightful comments. I'm just quicker than the good Dr. to draw conclusions but in the end we are in the same place.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 28, 2016 23:46:06 GMT -5
Eagle, I get your point. But it was a picture of exactly ONE sign. I think you're reaching. I'm not saying the sentiment isn't there or that there aren't valid cases to be made. But it's one sign. Maybe I'm missing something. The point you are making is there was one sign so not a real concerted effort or is your point that the signs were against the student-athletes? Not sure I'm folliowing as all I've seen is the same picture I think we all saw from casualhoya. My only point was it was a picture of one person with a sign. I get that that fan and that sign represents a segment of the fanbase and that he was among only about 5000 other spectators (a louder statement, IMO). But it was one sign. If there were a row of people with signs, I think that would be more impactful. Regardless, your underlying point remains. There are problems that need to be addressed. And, to be fair, some of us think it's a little too early to say that the staff isn't trying to change those things. That's not a head in the sand, let's give it a few more years type thing for me. More along the lines of change doesn't happen that quickly and we're only several games into the schedule and let's see what transpires this year view.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 28, 2016 23:52:29 GMT -5
Maybe I'm missing something. The point you are making is there was one sign so not a real concerted effort or is your point that the signs were against the student-athletes? Not sure I'm folliowing as all I've seen is the same picture I think we all saw from casualhoya. My only point was it was a picture of one person with a sign. I get that that fan and that sign represents a segment of the fanbase and that he was among only about 5000 other spectators (a louder statement, IMO). But it was one sign. If there were a row of people with signs, I think that would be more impactful. Regardless, your underlying point remains. There are problems that need to be addressed. And, to be fair, some of us think it's a little too early to say that the staff isn't trying to change those things. That's not a head in the sand, let's give it a few more years type thing for me. More along the lines of change doesn't happen that quickly and we're only several games into the schedule and let's see what transpires this year view. I don't agree with the bag on head approach in college sports but holding signs voicing opinions should be allowed if it's at the school and coach who are adults and being paid to do this. The only issue you have with the attention being paid to this is you may get more people showing up doing the same next game. It's scary when we I have to honestly say we are playing Coppin State next game and I'd call it a 50/50 game.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 29, 2016 0:03:56 GMT -5
My only point was it was a picture of one person with a sign. I get that that fan and that sign represents a segment of the fanbase and that he was among only about 5000 other spectators (a louder statement, IMO). But it was one sign. If there were a row of people with signs, I think that would be more impactful. Regardless, your underlying point remains. There are problems that need to be addressed. And, to be fair, some of us think it's a little too early to say that the staff isn't trying to change those things. That's not a head in the sand, let's give it a few more years type thing for me. More along the lines of change doesn't happen that quickly and we're only several games into the schedule and let's see what transpires this year view. I don't agree with the bag on head approach in college sports but holding signs voicing opinions should be allowed if it's at the school and coach who are adults and being paid to do this. The only issue you have with the attention being paid to this is you may get more people showing up doing the same next game. It's scary when we I have to honestly say we are playing Coppin State next game and I'd call it a 50/50 game. I don't think there should be an issue with the dude holding up the sign. I also don't think Coppin State is a 50/50 game.
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Post by HometownHoya on Nov 29, 2016 0:11:14 GMT -5
Unlike some Board members, I like to wait and see how the Hoyas are actually performing before putting up comments. Way too much early discussion on Kenner performance and wishful thinking about new arrivals. I think we now have seen enough to make some insightful comments. I'm just quicker than the good Dr. to draw conclusions but in the end we are in the same place. Are you sure you're in the same place? All he commented about was that we can't miss on the guys we recruit because we don't have players lined-up and that Jessie isn't playing well. That looks nothing like the same place, since he is actually watching games and commenting on the players. Unlike you who's only purpose for posting is to decry JTIII and the posters that just want to discuss/watch what happens ON the court. Additionally, I'd hope you'd learned about speaking for other people outside of direct (non-edited) quotes.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 29, 2016 0:13:53 GMT -5
I don't agree with the bag on head approach in college sports but holding signs voicing opinions should be allowed if it's at the school and coach who are adults and being paid to do this. The only issue you have with the attention being paid to this is you may get more people showing up doing the same next game. It's scary when we I have to honestly say we are playing Coppin State next game and I'd call it a 50/50 game. I don't think there should be an issue with the dude holding up the sign. I also don't think Coppin State is a 50/50 game. I think they all are at this point. Would you bet your house on our winning a game like this as you may have a decade ago if there was something in it for you to win albeit less than your house with the odds? You wouldn't because every game we play is an unknown. I know nothing about either team but I'd bet we had a better line in the Arkansas St. game than this one.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 29, 2016 0:17:00 GMT -5
I don't think there should be an issue with the dude holding up the sign. I also don't think Coppin State is a 50/50 game. I think they all are at this point. Would you bet your house on our winning a game like this as you may have a decade ago if there was something in it for you to win albeit less than your house with the odds? You wouldn't because every game we play is an unknown. I know nothing about either team but I'd bet we had a better line in the Arkansas St. game than this one. I'd bet my house on this game, yes. But, then again, I'm not the brightest dude going and don't have kids to worry about. But I wouldn't bet the spread.
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